Topic: Computer dorks (need processer/RAM advice on new DAW build)>

[Matt Quinn]

I'm configuring a new computer for my studio, and trying to figure out if a couple processor/RAM upgrades are worth it. Looking for advice...

Config page:

http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/viewsystem.cfm?recordid=134


Processor options:

-Core i3 530 2.93ghz 4MB cache Dual Core w/ HT

-Core i3 540 3.06ghz 4MB cache Dual Core w/ HT (+$20)

-Core i5 650 3.2ghz 4MB cache Dual Core w/ HT & Turbo (+$67)

-Core i5 660 3.33ghz 4MB cache Dual Core w/ HT & Turbo (+$86)

-Core i5 750 2.66ghz Quad 8MB cache 2.5GT/S DMI (+$94)

-Core i5 670 3.46ghz 4MB cache Dual Core w/ HT & Turbo (+$181)



RAM options - there are 2 slots for RAM, so I could put any combination of these chips in:

-Mushkin - 2gig DDR3 1333 1.5v 9-9-9-24
-Mushkin - 2gig DDR3 1600 1.65v 8-8-8-24 (+$7)
-Mushkin - 4gig (2x2gig) DDR3 1333 9-9-9-24 (+$73)
-Mushkin - 4gig (2x2gig) DDR3 1600 1.65v 8-8-8-24 (+$93)


************************************************************

So there's a couple no-brainer upgrades I think (the $7 RAM upgrade for both slots, and the $20 processor upgrade). What I am wondering is how much I would gain by blowing out the processer/RAM. We're talking ~ a $300 difference between base model & pimp'd to the max, so not peanuts. The computer is going to be used exclusively for audio/video, using up to 30-40 tracks per project, many of which will be running VSTi's & effects.

[Shadow_7]

Just curious if the computer will be in the same room as the recording is taking place in?  If so, you might not want that ram with fans, video card with fans, cpu with fans, and other NOISE making components.  You can't really get a beefy computer without fans, but something to consider.

[Matt Quinn]

Just curious if the computer will be in the same room as the recording is taking place in?  If so, you might not want that ram with fans, video card with fans, cpu with fans, and other NOISE making components.  You can't really get a beefy computer without fans, but something to consider.

The vast majority of stuff I will be doing will use either virtual instruments or synths/samplers/drum machines recorded directly. Recording live drums/guitar cabs etc will be a rare occasion type of task.

[OFOTD]

To be very honest the computer build you linked to is WAYYYYYY overpriced.   

Don't let the size fool you.  Shuttle makes the same type of product for much much less.  ADK Pro Audio's 'exhaustive testing' or whatever they claim is rubbish.

So my suggestion would be to look at some other manufacturers first.  No doubt you can find a superior machine to the one linked to for quite a bit less.

[Brian Skalinder]

Have you considered buying the components and building it yourself instead of paying ADK a premium to do so?

Some links posted by others you may find helpful in selecting components within your budget:

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb.php
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18510
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/10/ars-system-guide-october-2009-edition.ars

[Matt Quinn]

To be very honest the computer build you linked to is WAYYYYYY overpriced.   

Don't let the size fool you.  Shuttle makes the same type of product for much much less.  ADK Pro Audio's 'exhaustive testing' or whatever they claim is rubbish.

So my suggestion would be to look at some other manufacturers first.  No doubt you can find a superior machine to the one linked to for quite a bit less.

While I don't doubt that ADK is applying a premium here, I think it's a little ridiculous to call the testing the do rubbish. They certainly appear to publish a lot of data to back up their claims...

http://www.adkproaudio.com/benchmarks.cfm


In my research, they also seem to be extremely well regarded by the pro-audio community. I do not get the vibe that these guys are selling snake oil.

That said, I'm certainly open to suggestions for other manufacturers.....when I built a similar system at the Dell site, the price was just slightly lower, not enough of a difference to justify skipping a boutique built box for an off the rack Dell.   


What do you think a system like this should cost?

Have you considered buying the components and building it yourself instead of paying ADK a premium to do so?

Some links posted by others you may find helpful in selecting components within your budget:

http://www.pcper.com/hwlb.php
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18510
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guides/2009/10/ars-system-guide-october-2009-edition.ars

Not really, no. I have zero experience designing/building computers. Those links you posted are greek to me. I am eyeballs deep in learning very deep new audio & video software, as well as actual music writing/creation, so adding computer building to my hobby list is just not feasible right now. I don't want to spend time troubleshooting a computer build, I want a reasonably priced computer that handles everything I throw at it out of the box. I understand this will cost me a little more, but my time is valuable.

[OFOTD]

While I don't doubt that ADK is applying a premium here, I think it's a little ridiculous to call the testing the do rubbish. They certainly appear to publish a lot of data to back up their claims...

http://www.adkproaudio.com/benchmarks.cfm

Truth be told you can find a half dozen software packages that will spit out the same types of graphs, charts and figures.    While it may be comforting to see those benchmarks the reality is that its just there for eye candy and marketing.   

In my research, they also seem to be extremely well regarded by the pro-audio community. I do not get the vibe that these guys are selling snake oil.

I'm not in any way trying to say they are snake oil salesmen.  On the flip side they are not doing anything that is cutting edge, revolutionary or for that matter anything that you can't do for yourself.   
   
Here is a Dell deal:  http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/ltd/en/us/dhs/inspiron_560_dddoad51?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

Inspiron 560.  Windows 7, 8GB RAM, 1TB drive, CD/DVD Burner and the ability to expand as you see fit all for $569.  .

For the type of use you have described there is no need to buy a boutique box at all.   All of the 'off the shelf' Dell's or similar will work for you just as well at the ADK box.  The fact that you can use more than two RAM sticks is reason enough to pass the ADK boxes over without doubt.   Using virtual instruments and effects will have their biggest boost by far with larger amounts of RAM.   

There are dozens of sites that will walk you through optimizing your new DAW in literally a few minutes
 

[Matt Quinn]

OK, now we're talking...believe me, if I can save some cash, I'd love to. The big difference that jumps out at me between the ADK & Dell is the ADK has a seperate (160 or 320gig) drive for OS/program as well as one for audio. Not sure how to add that option to the Dell to make a fair comparison, and also not sure how to set up the system so that the OS lives on one drive while audio goes somewhere else.

The ADK also had a Bluray burner.


Another issue I was concerned about is the crap that always comes preloaded on major manufacturer boxes. This box will likely not even connect to the internet, so I don't need 50 anti virus trials etc. I really don't want any software on the computer other than the OS & my sequencer, and definitely do not want any non-essential stuff running in the background while I'm working on audio.

Thanks for the help!

[OFOTD]

The big difference that jumps out at me between the ADK & Dell is the ADK has a seperate (160 or 320gig) drive for OS/program as well as one for audio.

If you can hook up your taping gear then you can plug in a second hard drive.  Your original built system link has less than 500GB total between two hard drives.  With the linked Dell you're starting off with 1TB.  If you really want to use dual drives then spending $60 out of pocket for a second drive is probably <$60.   

The ADK also had a Bluray burner.

If you choose the Performance Plus Package upgrade from Dell (new total of $899) it adds a BR burner as well as other hardware upgrades including a 20" widescreen monitor.

Another issue I was concerned about is the crap that always comes preloaded on major manufacturer boxes.

For the most part manufacturers (Dell especially) has dramatically cut back on the crap they preinstall.  They have also made it so that using the control panel to uninstall works on all of that kind of thing.  Something you could do in literally under five minutes. 

[Matt Quinn]

If you can hook up your taping gear then you can plug in a second hard drive.  Your original built system link has less than 500GB total between two hard drives.  With the linked Dell you're starting off with 1TB.

That was just a link to the configuration page. The box I'd set up had a 320gig program/os drive and a 1TB audio drive.

If you really want to use dual drives then spending $60 out of pocket for a second drive is probably <$60.   

Well, I was led to believe it's rather important to have the OS & the audio drive separated. Is that not the case? It would be great if I could get away with 1 drive, but like I said, everything  I've seen on the subject seems to indicate separating the OS & audio drives is preferable. Can the Dell even be configured this way?

[rastasean]

the thing I don't like about it is that it only has two slots for RAM but that is because it is a small box. you can get more computer for less money.

Don't expect to buy a computer this week. just take your time and attempt to learn about all of this. after all, you didn't become the taper you are overnight or by buying Schoeps microphones. I think you would rather learn and attempt to save money rather than waste it on something thats too much money.

[flipp]

Caveat: I haven't checked Dell's store in a year or so, so the following may no longer be true.

If you go to Dell's small business pages rather than the home/home office site the computers come with almost no trial versions of anything, just an OS and any software you purchased from Dell (MS Office, etc). If you don't want preloaded crap go the small business route.

If you go the single drive route there is nothing preventing you from having multiple partitions on that drive - one for the OS and another one or more for programs/data etc. Maybe not quite as ideal as multiple drives but if/when you need to format/re-install the OS you only have to wipe/format the one partition.

[Matt Quinn]

Don't expect to buy a computer this week. just take your time and attempt to learn about all of this.

I mean, in an ideal world, yes, I'd have all kinds of time to learn about the technical stuff.  But this thing is going to be an instrument for me. If someone asks me for a recommendation on a guitar, I don't recommend they go build one. The building of one is a skill unto itself, separate from the skill of playing one. Race car drivers aren't mechanics. See what I'm saying?

[phanophish]

Just to give you an idea.  This machine would be a bit of overkill for what you are doing but would be a great Audio box and would be more than capable of Hd video editing and so on...

$1150
 Intel® Core™ i7-860 processor(8MB Cache, 2.80GHz)
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English
8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 4 DIMMs
750GB1 - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
ATI Radeon HD 5450 1GB DDR3
Dell 1525 WLAN PCIe card with11n mini-Card & external antenna
20" Dell ST2010 HD Widescreen Monitor
2 Yr Ltd Warranty, On-site Service, and 2 Yr Tech Support

http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/desktops/studio-xps-8100/pd.aspx?refid=studio-xps-8100&s=bsd&cs=04&~oid=us~en~4~studio-xps-8100-cto3~~

If you wanted to add a second drive for audio work, not necessary if you are not doing serious multitrack, but you could see some performance improvement, a raw 1TB drive can be picked up for well under $100.

[Shadow_7]

Is this machine for live performance / effects / other realtime needs?  If not, why pop for so much above and beyond abilities.  I don't think that I've spent more than $400 on a computer in the past five years.  To include a laptop I got for about $300.  Most of which are sufficient for most of what I do.  And since I keep the old boxes, I've got spares in times of trouble, or something to set whirling leaving my primary box free for more casual tasks.

It depends on your needs though.  A lot of the snake oil of sorts is in the software bundle, not the hardware.  Outside of ensuring that the hardware components are optmizably compatible, which some of the other bundles don't do.  Although sometimes you get lucky, my desktop only has a 1.9GHz dual core, but the mobo of that machine has that rated as the slowest chip for it.  So for $100-ish I could almost double my CPU power.  When/if the time/need comes.