Topic: used tube gear?

[dlantelme]

a power surge blew out my old Marantz receiver/amp, forcing me into an upgrade. Am I nuts to consider buying an old Dynaco 70 tube amp and a P2 or P3 to go with it? They seem to be in ready supply on ebay, often with claims that they have "gone through" and needed tubes replaced.
 I'm pushing a pair of 3 way Infinity speakers with a 12" woofer in a standard sized (14X22) living room.
  I'm familiar with the Dynaco sound, as I had friends who built these from kits years ago. I, however, don't have the time or inclination to tinker with these myself, and could be perfectly happy with spending less $ on new solid state gear if buying used tube gear is going to be Pandora's box. anyone have an icon for that?
  thanks for your advice, and for those who sold me the used gear (CCm4s,MP2,M1,stand,cables,mounts) I'm finally getting to use it regularly and turning out some good tapes. SKB night before last, and a couple of good new songs!

[dlantelme]

jeez, I even previewed this post and still missed it. Is it obvious I had a really good time Sat night?
  alright, it's TUBE gear                                        Doug

[Craig T]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used tube amp if it was a highly regarded reliable performer.  I would hesitate to buy used kit amps like the old Dynaco's unless it was upgraded by a respected tech (ie. I think Frank VanAlstine had a rebuild for the ST70).  These are aged amps that may require some part replacement and you can't be sure about the quality of assembly.

If looking at tube integrateds, do yourself a favor and check out the Cayin TA30.  I got one from Paul at www.2baudio.com and its definitely a winner.  There's plenty of feedback about the TA30 on the different audio forums - probably 99% raves.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I don't think you're opening pandora's box by buying used tube gear.  I've been running various tube gear in my system for about 9 years.  My entire chain (DAC>pre>amp) is tubed now. My experience is that tube gear is as reliable as any other piece of equipment if it's designed well.  Power amps need to be biased occasionally and any tube equipment needs plenty of ventilation.  But as long as it's a well designed piece and it has been cared for, you aren't taking any more risk than with used SS gear.

If you are getting a deal on a used piece and know that the tubes are due to be replaced, you should get in touch with someone like Upscale Audio and see what they recommend for replacement tubes.

I second that opinion that you might want to stay away from an assembled kit unless you know who built it.  A big part of the sound quality and reliability is in the construction.  

You didn't mention which model Infinities you have.  I have some Infinity RS6bs that are a pretty easy 4ohm load.  I drove them with tubes in a bigger room than yours and the sound was really good.  

[dlantelme]

My Infinities are the 3000P model, about 15 yrs old but reconed 2 years ago. I'm not in love with them.
 The Marantz had 50wpc
sounds like some good advice-not relying on how well Joe Schmoe did soldering 30 years ago...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I don't know those speakers.  The Infinity speakers I know about are all from the early '80s.

You might look here: http://www.jolida.com/catalogue_tube.html  

The two smaller integrated amps look pretty nice and they show up on audiogon.  There is one there now but he says one channel is funky.  I have heard some of the higher powered Jolida stuff in a shop and it sounded good.  I'm assume that the smaller ones have the same characteristic sound.  

Edit:
Hey Craig T, did you try one of those Cayin TA30 integrateds?  Their webpage is down.  I'm looking for a small integrated too and Jolida is the only ones I have heard.

[dlantelme]

many thanks to you both for the good advice. Is an integrated amp one in which a preamp is included, or does it refer to the fact it is in fact 2 amps, one for each channel of stereo?
 Assuming both the Cayin and Jolida need a preamp, any suggestions? Pros and cons of running a ss preamp with a tube amp?                              Doug

[twoodruff]

I have a cj pv-12L tube preamp available if you are interested. Not trying to push it on you, just in case you are interested

[Craig T]

many thanks to you both for the good advice. Is an integrated amp one in which a preamp is included, or does it refer to the fact it is in fact 2 amps, one for each channel of stereo?
 Assuming both the Cayin and Jolida need a preamp, any suggestions? Pros and cons of running a ss preamp with a tube amp?                              Doug

Integrated amps (i.e. Cayin TA30, Jolida 102, 302, 502) don't require a preamp - they have a gain stage built in and typically have 3 or 4 source inputs.

Mixing SS & tubes is common - most mix tube preamps with SS power amps, not the other way around.

[dlantelme]

thanks Craig
I remember hearing of a Zappa show at Fillmore East at which he had the whole audience leave the building doing the mudshark! Typical late show ending at 6am, emptying out onto 2nd Ave to face the reality of NYC.

[cheshirecat]

Hmm, craptacular.  I missed this thread, hope you're still looking.

I actually have a few ST-70s and PAS-2s along with a bunch of other tube gear.  Personally I really dig the Dynaco sound.  I HIGHLY recommend it.  The ST-70 particularly is very easy to work on if thats your schtick, if not it should not be costly to have a tech check it out.  Watch out for items on ebay that say they have been gone through and the tubes replaced.  Fact is most old tubes are MUCH better than the russian/chinese/eastern block tubes that are in current production.   Dynaco originally stocked their amps with mullard tubes for the EL-34s and 5AR4, the ST-70 doesn't drive the outputs that hard so most original EL-34s should still be OK and the mullard 5AR4 is possibley the best ever made and should have a ton of life left.  If you must go new production, look for a sovtek 5ar4, SED EL34s or EH Big bottles.  The 7199s are another thing, Dynaco used RCA black plate tubes in most of the ones I have seen, these are great tubes, but are a little pricey, the Sylvania grey plates are decent, but stay away from the newer sovtek production if you can i'm not hot on them. 

Rebuilding a ST-70 should be pretty easy, there are many sights that will walk you through it, i've done 3 so far. You will just need to replace a few things to get it back in tip top shape:
The filter Cap
Coupling Capacitors
Sellenium Rectifier stack
Other goodies would be:
Tube sockets
RCA Jacks
Output Terminals with some 5 way binding posts


Sheldon Stokes put out a replacement driver that sounds really nice, you can buy one through Ned Carlson at Triode Electronics; the circuit uses a 12AU7 splitter into 2 EF86s, its a nice design and maintains the essensce of the original circuit so it doesn't change the sound too much.  I would also consider this a nice upgrade.

The PAS is a bit more of a pain in the ass to work with... With a few mods it can sound really nice, it just needs a few things updated and put back in spec.

At any rate, I would REALLY recommend dynaco gear, it sounds night and day nicer than a lot of current produciton SS gear, and even much of the new tube gear i've heard (perhaps thats becasue you get used to that nice deep soundstage dynaco has??)

if you need any advice on dyna gear, just let me know!  Let us know what you decide.

[macdaddy]

I missed this thread, too - and it is one of my favorite subjects...


I run a modded JoLida 302a

it sounds fantastic...

if you would like to read more details, I wrote a whole piece on it (pics, too) >>

[zowie]

I had a 302a for a while.  I loved it. 
I pride myself on having discovered it with my own ears - demo'd it in a store before any reviews or notices came out in the audiophile press, and got a good price because they weren't moving since people only want stuff that's been reviewed.

[cheshirecat]

Very nice amp there macdaddy... he're's a picture of my baby.  I have 2 ST70s one with the stock board (restuffed with upgraded parts) and one with the 12ua7/ef86 in the preamp, I just can't decide which one I like better.  At any rate here is the one with the 12AU7/EF86 board, its what i'm using now... very nice sound.  I'm still hunting around for a nice set of speakers... I think I may build myself a set of Ariel ME-2s   who knows!?

At any rate, the ST70 is currently rocking some Amperex Mullard EL34s (XF2s Single getter) with a GE branded Mullard 5AR4 and all telefunkens in the preamp section... great sound... i love it.

[macdaddy]

right back at ya, cc!

that is a very nice lookin' unit you have there, too...

are those spots for two more tubes on the chasis, on either side of the input RCAs?

I haven't tried mullards yet.