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Author Topic: Mini-Disc with TEETH  (Read 15718 times)

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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2004, 11:46:13 AM »
the lurker lives no more! j/k

why get one of these when the gemini looks so scrumcious

Offline Fish Tank Z

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2004, 06:10:16 PM »
Battery life.

The GMini probably runs 10 hours max. The Hi-MD recorders will be able to do 20 hours on an AA without breaking a sweat.

Offline Crimson

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2004, 08:21:18 PM »
As far as stealth goes: rock the hi-md.  my testicular fortitude won't hold dat-gear for an entire TOOL tour :)
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Offline George

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Re:Sony Announces Hi-MD To Resurect MiniDisc
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2004, 09:47:22 PM »
I don't care what they say about how good it will sound, compression is compression and certainly degrades signal performance and fidelity.  I wonder why they don't just come up with a flac encoding technology or something, and ditch the atrac stuff all together.  

flac is compression...

Lossless compression, that is   ;)
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Offline chase

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2004, 10:02:00 PM »
Quote
When/if I ever travel to Japan, I'll be bring a few blanks around, just in case

when i went to japan 3 years ago, everyone had MDs.  people don't drive everywhere like us lazy americans, so MD is awesome for them since they have to walk/bus/train most places, especially in tokyo.  i also bought a sony MD while i was there for much cheaper.  if you guys could see the electronics district (akihabra) you would literally bust a nut, it's pure insanity.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2004, 10:03:01 PM by chase »

Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2004, 01:09:04 AM »
Battery life.

The GMini probably runs 10 hours max. The Hi-MD recorders will be able to do 20 hours on an AA without breaking a sweat.

let me know the next time you are gonna record for 20 hours straight (still have to change discs ::) ) and I'll grant you that point

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2004, 03:54:18 AM »
As far as stealth goes: rock the hi-md.  my testicular fortitude won't hold dat-gear for an entire TOOL tour :)

time for a work-out regimen!

Offline joemango

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2004, 04:10:55 PM »
Fuck Sony and their crap-assed inventions.  Like:

The floppy disk drive
The DAT
The Trinitron TV
The CD
S/Pdif
The Walkman

</sarcasm>

I can't believe you people are poo-pooing the very company that made our hobby POSSIBLE in the first place!!  Give them some slack!  If you don't like MD compression, don't use it.  That doesn't mean other people shouldn't.  If a show was going to go unrecorded and a MD taper showed up with a rig, he is in my book a hero.

I've since eschewed the MD format for a Nomad JB3, but I'll probably buy a Hi-MD to transfer a bunch of my older MD recordings digitally.  Plus that way I have a backup 16/44.1 recorder in a pinch.

BobW

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2004, 05:33:36 AM »
Fuck Sony and their crap-assed inventions.  Like:

The floppy disk drive
The DAT
The Trinitron TV
The CD
S/Pdif
The Walkman

</sarcasm>

I can't believe you people are poo-pooing the very company that made our hobby POSSIBLE in the first place!!  Give them some slack!  If you don't like MD compression, don't use it.  That doesn't mean other people shouldn't.  If a show was going to go unrecorded and a MD taper showed up with a rig, he is in my book a hero.

I've since eschewed the MD format for a Nomad JB3, but I'll probably buy a Hi-MD to transfer a bunch of my older MD recordings digitally.  Plus that way I have a backup 16/44.1 recorder in a pinch.

Did Sony invent any of this or just buy the rights and make money from them ?

They also "invented" the Walkman battery door, the analog section of the D7/8, S-link, SCMS, and all of the other things mentioned in earler posts. My 35" Trinitron died 2 years after plunking down $1000 for it, long past it's less than standard 90 day warantee.

And don't miss the Serial Copy Management "feature" that Hi-MD will include.  I love to give data bits of musical information to copy protection schemes that don't apply to my use of a product.

IMHO, Sony's market is not us.
If they called the shots, a taper's section would not exist.
They wanted to market prerecorded DATs with SCMS.
CDs overtook it, plain and simple.
We inadvertently benefited from what they would call "their loss."

Sony is not your Uncle, trust me.
It is a very, very big foreign interest taking US jobs and dollars abroad.

Offline joemango

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2004, 05:42:22 PM »

Did Sony invent any of this or just buy the rights and make money from them ?

They also "invented" the Walkman battery door, the analog section of the D7/8, S-link, SCMS, and all of the other things mentioned in earler posts. My 35" Trinitron died 2 years after plunking down $1000 for it, long past it's less than standard 90 day warantee.

And don't miss the Serial Copy Management "feature" that Hi-MD will include.  I love to give data bits of musical information to copy protection schemes that don't apply to my use of a product.

IMHO, Sony's market is not us.
If they called the shots, a taper's section would not exist.
They wanted to market prerecorded DATs with SCMS.
CDs overtook it, plain and simple.
We inadvertently benefited from what they would call "their loss."

Sony is not your Uncle, trust me.
It is a very, very big foreign interest taking US jobs and dollars abroad.


No, but my uncle used to work for sony.  :)  Yes, they invented (developed) quite a lot of the CE toys you use today, or at least made them better.  They also made some that were technically superior, but weren't so popular (Betamax, which came out BEFORE VHS, was a better format than VHS, quality wise).  Some others I didn't mention:

The portable transistor radio
Home video reel-to-reel (my grandpa had one, the CV-2000)
The portable transistor TV
The CCD chip (the "eye" of a camcorder)
The Betacam (the first camcorder)
the 3.5" floppy
The Li-Ion rechargeable battery
The JumboTron

And don't give me that "buy american" crap, either.  You and I both know that if we wanted to keep foreign product out of the tapers' section, there would BE no tapers' section.  Tascam, Sony, Casio, Creative Labs, HHB, Schoeps, DPA, Neumann...  can you think of any American made DAT's or HD recorders that don't cost as much as a CAR? Can you think of ANY, period?

Don't forget that SCMS was a reaction to Congress' pressure on the Consumer Electronics industry to keep people from copying CDs or DATs perfectly over and over again.  They could have just made DAT analog in only, but that would be besides the point of having a DAT int the first place.  Do you remember (or can you?) how LONG we waited for DAT, once they announced they had made prototypes?  YEARS, because of this very issue.  Don't blame Sony for SCMS, blame Jack Valenti and his buddies at the RIAA!!

So my point is, you would not have even heard of DAT unless SCMS was part of it.

The DRM on the Hi-MD is likely to prevent you from ripping a CD to MD (using USB) and then distributing it.  JUST like SCMS.   With SCMS you get to make at least one perfect copy.  So make a backup of your CD.  Big f'in deal.  

The SCMS is one of the features that draws the line between consumer (d7/8) and Pro (da-p1, etc) audio.  Notice the price range difference.  If Sony marketed a Hi-MD without SCMS, it would be a rack mount unit and cost $1000.

Anyway....  My point originally was this:  Sony has made some mistakes.  So have many CE (Consumer Electronics) companies.  But instead of just doing what everyone else is, they consistently come up with new categories of products and create markets for themselves.  Sure, I've had 2 MD car players go south on me.  I've had just as many Pioneer and Alpine units go bad too.  Toys will break.  Including Sony's.

My kit doesn't have any Sony product in it right now.  But there's room.

BobW

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2004, 02:30:13 AM »
I actually would probably use an Cuban MD if it was PCM and ran over two hours.  But I wouldn't use an Iraqi MD Recorder  :)

I definitely think that we're going to have to "agree to disagree" about Sony.
No sir, don't like 'em.

As far as foreign equipment, I have noticed that there isn't much to find with a made in America label. There are differences in how top-level corporate cash gets spent.  I wish we had a better way to know which companies have better US employment, environmental, and US-reinvestment records.

The  SD and Fostex HD recorders cost about as much as my first Volkswagen bug (it was called a Type I back then). I'm not sure if either can be labeled "American-made."  But then again, neither was my VW.
If the HardDrive machines are, then both are about 10% of the price of a typical car today. Granted, still pricey compared to a $250 MD, but it is an 'apples to oranges" comparison.

I guess the bottom line is I do not think that the Hi-MD will be an answer for lossless taping, but there is hope. Somehow ya gotta believe that if Sony wanted to keep a DAT-equivalent product in their inventory, they could have.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 02:34:37 AM by BobW »

Offline Scuba Jeremy

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2004, 02:48:57 AM »
Sony seems to do just fine keeping up with the consumer demand. It's not as if Sony does not have any other format for digital playback, but they know that MemoryStick(ha) can't handle long recording time.

One thing to keep in mind is that 90% of the Sony products that would interest us are consumer grade products in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I love my PCM-M1, but the rest of my Sony stuff is just consumer grade gear. And even their consumer stuff isn't bad. I love my in-dash MD recorder. Great for those un-announced radio interviews.

Why does it matter to everyone what newbies use to tape with? Shouldn't we be happy that newbies are taping at all? I've always told newbies that starting on MD is not a bad idea, helps to get used to the idea of setting levels, watching for tape flips, mic positioning, etc. Step up to something else when you're ready, and in the process you find out how great MD is for casual listening.

I'm pretty tough on my media sometimes, and I'll tell you, I haven't scratched an MD yet.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 02:50:23 AM by Scuba Jeremy »

Offline joemango

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2004, 10:22:48 AM »
I'm willing to bet that they can stretch their new disc writing technology to larger (data) sized discs.  The DWDD technology looks very cool.  It allows them to pack more data in with the same laser that they currently use.  So who's to say that they won't come out with a 2 GB or more possibly 1.5 GB disc in the future?

I'm more than sure that HD recording is the way to go, long term.  I have a Nomad JB3 that I love.  But my gadget jones has been kicked in by this new MD format, even if for no other reason than using it as a portable data drive.  1 GB is a buttload of data for a form factor like MD.  You could presumably put a whole MPEG4 movie on it, assuming the data transfer rates are good.  It works as a USB storage device so just about any computer that can use one of those (like a PDA, Hmm?) would be able to grab stuff off of it.

Jeez, my bonus is already spent.

Offline joemango

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Re:Mini-Disc with TEETH
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2004, 10:37:29 AM »
Holy shit..  I just realized something...  


Think of this config:

PDAudio in a Toshiba PDA, with a Hi-MD as a data drive.

If the Hi-MD can write at any faster than  562 KBytes/sec (probably) it can handle a 24/96 stream.

1GB=31 minutes at 24/96... shit.  But if the PDA could FLAC on the fly, you could get an hour.

Still, 1 GB= 62 Minutes at 24/48, possibly more with FLAC/SHN.  But I dunno if anyone has a streaming FLAC yet.  (That sounds naughty.)

Just a little diarrhea of the mind.

 

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