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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Kwonfidelity on March 30, 2005, 11:03:40 PM

Title: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Kwonfidelity on March 30, 2005, 11:03:40 PM
Careful folks, got this one tonight. 

Running 4 channels and it gave me this message.  The drive stopped and reset to the next 'track'.  Pressed record again, and it flew for a few more seconds and it repeated.  Shut down.  Let it sit for a few seconds, then turned it back on.  No more problems for the rest of the session.

Fortunately this was a remote closed session and the talents could be stopped and re-directed.  At a show, different story.

Will send to SD and give you guys an update later...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on March 30, 2005, 11:24:31 PM
What speed does that drive test at using the internal utility?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on March 31, 2005, 11:09:18 AM
4 channels at what data rate?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Kwonfidelity on March 31, 2005, 02:14:52 PM
Update:

The drive is heavily fragmented.

Get in the habit of reformatting the drive as much as you do your desktop - SD suggests even more frequently.
I had reformatted the drive before the Panix Fox run, but they figured that after four days of 3+ hours/day of running 4 channel 24/96 into the drive which populated 95% of the drive space - then to follow it up by jamming a 16/44.1 file at the very end a few days later (without reformatting) taxed the crap out of the machine.

Hindsight is always so transparent.

A warning for the festival season coming up. I'll definitely have to tote the powerbook to festivals in order to dump the files and reformat the drive.  I would certainly think that something on the scale of Tride, HSMF, or even Broo, etc would be just as much or more processing on these drives than the Fox run was.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on March 31, 2005, 02:23:26 PM
I reformat before every show, so long as I have time to transfer the stuff off in between shows.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on March 31, 2005, 08:44:45 PM
Update:

The drive is heavily fragmented.

Get in the habit of reformatting the drive as much as you do your desktop - SD suggests even more frequently.
I had reformatted the drive before the Panix Fox run, but they figured that after four days of 3+ hours/day of running 4 channel 24/96 into the drive which populated 95% of the drive space - then to follow it up by jamming a 16/44.1 file at the very end a few days later (without reformatting) taxed the crap out of the machine.

Hindsight is always so transparent.

A warning for the festival season coming up. I'll definitely have to tote the powerbook to festivals in order to dump the files and reformat the drive.  I would certainly think that something on the scale of Tride, HSMF, or even Broo, etc would be just as much or more processing on these drives than the Fox run was.

good info. Thanks.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 16, 2005, 03:53:35 AM
Very upset that this error popped up last night at the Mule...  Set 1 went great.  Set 2, about 40 minutes in, I noticed the error message pop up...  Sucks b/c we were the only folks FOB and it didn't sound too good in the back
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 16, 2005, 05:35:30 AM
i format even the jb3 every few shows unless im at a festi.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Flarnet on April 16, 2005, 12:14:06 PM
Pardon me for mentioning this but...

If the fragmentation of the 7xx works anything like a computer then it will not become fragmented at a festival where nothing is deleted and things just gets added to the drive.
So nobody has to go out and get laptops for the summer.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: trajhip2000 on April 17, 2005, 01:29:22 PM
happened with my 744T last night - I still had files on it I wanted so I ran "drive repair". missed a couple minutes of music but it seemed to run fine after that.

Steve
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 18, 2005, 01:35:10 PM
This happened with my 722 last night.  Mine is configured to start a new file on drive error so it kept rolling but I have not checked yet.  It happened twice.  If the software was written properly, there should not be any glitch between the two files as long as the time to start a new file is less than the size of the pre-roll buffer.  When I get a chance to open the files tonight, I'll know.  I had the unit locked.  It displayed the error message and then cleared the error message when I started the unlock sequence.  I recall that the new take was about 8 minutes in, so maybe my files are OK.   (This is what I remember, I was nodding off during the entire show).

After originally reading this thread, I reformated my drive.  I've done 6 or so sessions since the format operation and they were all sequentially recorded with no files deleted from the unit since the format.  There should be 0% fragmentation, so that is not an excuse for the behavior on my machine.  One thing that came to mind last night is that I did not see this issue before I upgraded to the recent firmware and before this thread raised my concern about fragmentation, I was selectively removing little files before recording new takes and generally doing everything to cause fragmentation. 



Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 18, 2005, 01:41:34 PM
so I ran Tims 722 last night, reformatted on the weekend, and have not seen this error yet...not saying I wont see it, just have not yet...thinking outloud...has anyone had this problem with a 722 that has the stock HD in it?  Just trying to think if there is a common thread here...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Rick on April 18, 2005, 01:48:01 PM
on the SD support fourms they mention another firmware comming out soon. Hopefully this will help.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 18, 2005, 07:54:55 PM
Careful folks, got this one tonight. 

happened with my 744T last night - I still had files on it I wanted so I ran "drive repair". missed a couple minutes of music but it seemed to run fine after that.

Did either of you guys have success pulling the truncated files off of the harddrive? 

Both of the files that were in progress when the error occured are detected as "corrupt" by windows when I try to copy them to my workstation.  ie: I can't get the damn things off the drive.  I ran the 722 HDD repair utility and it reported 9 detected/7 fixed errors.  The files seem to play correctly and sound fine where I sampled them.

Something else wierd is that both files that were in progress at the time of the failures have the same timestamp and sample time span. 




Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Kwonfidelity on April 18, 2005, 10:49:07 PM
My files came off my drive okay.  They were only as long as restart>drive to slow msg, but I was able to pull them off and see them in PTools.  I was working off a mac platform, but it shouldn't make a difference because in effect it is what the SD drive has done with it.

Boswell, got your message a little late.  Was at RCMH.  Just now getting my shit together from that run.  Now for a short two day break before ... Jazzfest.  Ugh!    ;D

What I'm curious about is the defrag/re-format process.  For a drive this big it seems to do it too fast.  It reformats a 40gig faster than my old G4 can rebuild a 20 gig drive.

Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 18, 2005, 11:16:38 PM
I think they are not doing a low level format.  Probably just wiping the fat.

Robert, where you running the device with auto recover to a new file?  If you weren't that may be an important difference.   Btw, my pulls with the NOS bar are stellar - when I can get the files off my machine.


I posted on SD support page as well.  Don't know what else to do except pull what I can and erase the drive.  Although given that I've seen file copy problems, I'm scared to wipe my master files - but I need to be running tomorrow night.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on April 19, 2005, 12:05:43 AM
If you do the MD5 compare "trick" that I did, you'll at least know you pulled off a copy that's identical to the copy on the drive if the MD5s match. I am trying to format between every show if I can.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: trajhip2000 on April 19, 2005, 01:04:21 PM
my experience with md5s and the 744T is that it's a good idea to make md5s of your files on the SD recorder a couple times and compare to be sure they are the same. In a few cases I had to do it several times to get 2 md5s that were in agreement for some files - and in one case I had to copy a file from the 744T HD to my PC 4 times before I got a copy identical to the original on the 744T. without having done a bunch of experimentation it seemed like it was the same files that were problematic in both situations, or at least there was a pretty good overlap - not sure what that means...

Steve
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 19, 2005, 01:24:45 PM
my experience with md5s and the 744T is that it's a good idea to make md5s of your files on the SD recorder a couple times and compare to be sure they are the same. In a few cases I had to do it several times to get 2 md5s that were in agreement for some files - and in one case I had to copy a file from the 744T HD to my PC 4 times before I got a copy identical to the original on the 744T. without having done a bunch of experimentation it seemed like it was the same files that were problematic in both situations, or at least there was a pretty good overlap - not sure what that means...

Steve


I'm seeing the same behavior.

If you run across that situation again, would you try running the INHDD:repair utility and see if it changes the result?  I'm in the process of summing everything and then doing copies after doing a repair.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: trajhip2000 on April 19, 2005, 02:46:23 PM
you betcha. altho I may have done it already - when I got the "disk too slow" msg on Sat I ran a disk repair and got things running again. there were old files on the HD that I pulled off on Sun and still gave me problems. but it wasn't a disk repair and then immediate transfer, I did record additional files, so maybe that has an effect.

Steve
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 19, 2005, 03:43:27 PM
Well, disturbing update number 52:

I ran INHDD:repair and chkdsk and verified that there were no errors.
I then ran an MD5 on the drive.
I then ran INHDD:repair and it reported 28/23 detected/fixed errors.   

So apparently just reading the HD via fire wire and writing an MD5 list file to the disk causes files system errors.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on April 19, 2005, 04:32:11 PM
When you run the MD5 process, don't write to the 722 disk, just write that to your local machine (or display only if you're on the command line). I just formatted last night. I'm tempted to take a free ticket to Panic to test this out. Okay ... not that tempted ;)

In any case, I'm definitely doing a show on Monday, and I'll be recording at least 2 different acts, so I'll see how the unit behaves. Too bad it's not easier to swap a drive in and out, since it seems like the only real issue these units have is with how they behave as FW drives.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Tim on April 19, 2005, 06:35:46 PM
I'm tempted to take a free ticket to Panic to test this out. Okay ... not that tempted ;)

it's okay, rock and roll isn't for everyone :P

;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 19, 2005, 08:38:07 PM
weak!  you've used that one before
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 21, 2005, 03:32:38 PM
Quick update:

This fucking piece of shit - I'm missing huge sections of the Philly show.  The "start new file on disk error" does not seem to have worked properly. 

I was able to "recover" the content of the take that was truncated due to error.  The next sequential take is cut off and missing quite a bit on both ends. 

I had similar media problems in DC but those I still need to pull.

Damn this piece of shit.



/rant off for now

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 04:05:16 PM
I didn't have it set to start a new file on error for the mule last week, but when I restarted the 722, it went from 40 minutes on the counter to 11 minutes.

You reformatted before the show, right? 

And when everyone says reformat, they mean they ran the drive erase feature in the menu, no?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 21, 2005, 04:16:49 PM
I saw the same thing - cleared the error message and thought "cool, it's still running and it's 8 minutes into the new file".  Well, not cool.  Not cool at all.

No I didn't reformat and that is also because of deficiencies with the unit.

I have earlier shows on there and could not get them off before I left for nyc because the firewire is so slow and I have to MD5 the originals and the copies so many times to get a copy that is correct.  I'm seeing the same crap Matt reported.  About 1 out of 3 file copy operations results in a MD5 mismatch.  About 1 out of 7 MD5 sum and verification operations against the originals fails.  So the transfer procedure for a show takes about 3 hours if everything goes well.   (about the amount of time it takes to do a realtime transfer and tracking of DAT to CD. Nice huh?)

I'm trying to get my shows off this drive so I can reformat it before the next show.  But the drive was cleared of all files via the firewire interface and all shows recorder sequentially with no files removed between the takes.  So there should have been no frragmentation of the drive regardless of what others have suspected might be the cause of the slow media message.   


Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 04:28:33 PM
You're awfully picky.  Just dump the files and reformat.  What's a few bits here and there?  You probably won't even notice them on playback ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 21, 2005, 04:33:21 PM
You're awfully picky.  Just dump the files and reformat.  What's a few bits here and there?  You probably won't even notice them on playback ;)


+t for making me laugh.  I've been pissed off all day because of this.

If I thought it was just a sample or two that went bad, I'd ignore it.  I'm afraid of getting 20 minutes of static.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 04:47:35 PM
fwiw, we've never run an md5 check on anything we've taped (9 different acts) and they've all turned out fine with the exception of the show that we got the media too slow error.  Not saying there wasn't an error on the recording at some point, but I have yet to hear it on playback.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 21, 2005, 04:55:03 PM
I didn't do it either until I read Matts post.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: jmerin on April 21, 2005, 04:58:29 PM
I find it crazy, that this device costs over 2000 and it has issues. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 05:08:17 PM
and I'm guessing getting first laptop rig up and running worked flawlessly?

I've had WAY more issues trying to author and burn a dvd-audio than figuring out how to run this machine. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on April 21, 2005, 05:27:48 PM
yeah i've been a little worried reading this thread but i think it looks likes issues that can be fixed with firmware updates(or at least i hope). I'm still going through with the 722 purchase.  threads like this one and others will only help us solve these issues quicker IMO.  The amount of communication and talk on this device here has been great! 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 21, 2005, 05:34:21 PM
and I'm guessing getting first laptop rig up and running worked flawlessly?

I've had WAY more issues trying to author and burn a dvd-audio than figuring out how to run this machine. 

As far as I know, some people are still trying to get a laptop rig running properly.  I found the DVD authoring to be the easiest part for me.  I bought a copy of audio-DVD-creator and downloaded CDWave and I had my first DVD in about 10 minutes.

I'm a whiney little bitch when I lose a show but there were a lot of good rigs in Philly and probably I'd rather find a copy of that split omni source anyway.  I agree these issues will get worked out eventually.  I've just had a solid rig for so long I've forgotten what it's like to be on the bleeding edge.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 07:19:47 PM
my computer issues were compatibility related.  First dvd drive just didn't jive with my computer.  Then I went the wavelab route and it's finished dvd doesn't jive all that well with my 2900.  Works great except for a gap between the first and second track, then occasionally between others.  Then I bought a spindle of discs that my drive didn't like...  audio dvd creator is fine, but its pretty annoying not to be able to fast forward and rewind during songs.  Supposedly its going to be fixed in firmware updates, but not as of yet.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 21, 2005, 07:26:00 PM
so for being tested EXTENSIVELY, what the fuck did SD smoke the day they implemented this into their machines, fuckin weak that some of ya'll cant even pull the music off your HD and it needs re-formatted every show :P

i'llbe waiting for something more STABLE :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 07:30:05 PM
and those jb3's have always performed flawlessly...  right out of the box
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 21, 2005, 07:32:00 PM
well, ya got me there, but they werent implemented for tapers either, these were, i mean, what the hell did they do w/them for 2.5 years :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 21, 2005, 07:36:11 PM
obviously not enough.

Its frustrating, but being the first to implement any new device, you have to assume some bumps along the way. 

The most frustrating piece is not running back up like most have done with jb3 when they got them.  It can be done, but its not as easy as passing a 16 bit signal.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 21, 2005, 07:45:15 PM
obviously not enough.

Its frustrating, but being the first to implement any new device, you have to assume some bumps along the way.

The most frustrating piece is not running back up like most have done with jb3 when they got them. It can be done, but its not as easy as passing a 16 bit signal.

im sure the kinks will work out, i really wasnt knocking on it, hell, id LOVE to own one, but damn SD had their heads up their butts on this one :)

i bet its VERY frustrating, all those fine 24-bit recordings floating around of them and theycant even be pulled off of the recorder :'(
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 21, 2005, 07:49:41 PM
actually if it was anyone other than SD manufacturing this box I would be concerned...they have always been more than helpful in my dealings in the past and even now are not shying away from the issues as I have known manufacturers to do in the past.  Also, this box was not developed for the environment we use it in, in my opinion...that is one of them, but thats it...one of them...we use these things in bad circumstances, in hot arenas, in bags, running straight for ~3 hours...as a community, tapers are really putting this thing through the ringer.  And as stated earlier, as with any case where you are an "early adopter" you accept the fact you are going to have bugs....I am just glad that SD is working them out...

fwiw, I have had zero problems yet that werent caused by Tim or I...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 21, 2005, 07:52:35 PM
Thats you can't take a DAT backup right out of the 722 and that has been a burr under my saddle too but less annoying than this.

Yeah Bean, I'm a little disappointed in the behavior because I think they didn't do as good a testing as they should have.  Most of these issues reported here and also on the SD support site are things that could have been caught in testing.  Unfortunately, when a new product is late to market the testing usually gets streamlined.  I don't think I'm doing anything with the box that is outside the expected application of the device.  At least with the JB3, it was released primarily as a consumer level music player.  I think the JB3 has excelled beyond it's intended application.  The 722 is a professional model and should stand to a more rigourous standard.

But eventually they will get the firmware fixed.  Especially since there are 100 field testers now.  It does make a very sweet recording when it works.  I've been really happy with the shows I've pulled and not quite as quick to put the V3 back into the chain as I thought I would be.

(if I seem more forgiving right now, it's the beer talking)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on April 21, 2005, 11:05:28 PM
I'll be doing another show on monday. I formatted last night so everything should be "clean". I'lll let you know if I can get the data off the 722 myself of if I have to go back to Jonny's apt. and try it there. It seems like some machines (the newer powerbooks, for example) have no issues at all, while others (my G3 400 Pismo) can't do a damn thing to get the files off cleanly.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: carlbeck on April 23, 2005, 08:44:43 AM
It's really disapointing to read these threads. I spoke with Michael & he mentioned losing some of the Philly & DC shows. I have to admit I would be FREAKING if that happened to me so I admire all of you for dealing with this but I would certainly make my feelings known to SD. It sounds like they dropped the ball big time on this one (if any of you actually want my outside looking in opinions) they took way too long to get this to the market at a premium price with performance issues. At first I was concerned I may have pulled the trigger too soon when I purchased the FR2 but fortunately (knock on wood) I have had no errors of any sort. To be fair, my friend John has had three seperate errors on my machine when used in a small club that we feel was caused by vibration, once we switched bags the problem went away. The reality is that we are all on the cutting edge when taping 24 bit, either of these boxes are ALOT easier than recording to a laptop IMO, I remember a few years back when Nick was taping 24 bit to laptop there was less info available & many more problems. I can't tell you how many shows he had problems with, it seemed like every show we did together he was having problems with that thing. Keep working through it & make SD aware of the problems. You are the end user, you paid for quality STABLE recording, expect nothing less. It will help all of us in the end. Thanks.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 23, 2005, 09:00:07 AM
So Joe got a media too slow error last night midway into the first set...after a fresh format and drive repair before the show.  At setbreak he siwthced from 24/96 to 24/48 and had zero problems in the second set...he and I were guessing the problem may be the HD may not be fast enough to keep up with 96....just a thought though
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: carlbeck on April 23, 2005, 09:05:16 AM
BTW, I forgot to mention, I ONLY run 24/48 as well. I don't think any of these drives can keep up for 3+ hours at 24/96.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on April 23, 2005, 09:26:10 AM
what rpm drive?

i don't see how a 5400rpm drive could have problems keeping up with only 2 channels of 24/96.  the stock 4200 models may have issues though.

Frank from cascade told me the new stock drives all 5400 rpm but his voice didn't sound so sure over the telephone.

what kind of drives are you all running?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: carlbeck on April 23, 2005, 09:52:12 AM
My drives are Toshiba 5gb 4200 rpm's, I do not know of a faster drive that will work for me. I really should check again as it's been a while since I bought these but really I already have two of these & 24/48 is rock solid, so there isn't much need for other drives. Now when a 10 or 20gb comes out I'll really have a reason to move.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 23, 2005, 11:02:47 AM
So Joe got a media too slow error last night midway into the first set...after a fresh format and drive repair before the show. 

What firmware is in that box?  I didn't have any of these media speed problems prior to the most recent firmware update and I was hammering on the drive with all kids of fragmentation causing file manupilations over firewire.  This may be a latent bug, but it seems to be a causal relationship beterrn the appearence of these errors and the last firmware installation.

My opinion is that this has nothing at all to do with the speed of the media device.  This is a bug in the new firmware.  I want to know how that media speed error is detected.  If it is reported as media speed but is really a buffer overflow problem in the sample flow, that could be any number of things not at all related to the HD performance.

The stock 744T ships with a 5400rpm drive capable of sustained recording at 192/24 over 4 channels.  At  2 channels of 24/96, this thing should be getting bored at 1/4th the expected datarate.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 23, 2005, 11:16:46 AM
dont know the firmware...and that is a good point...I dont believe that Tim has updated his firmware, and it may not be a coincidence that we have not seen this error on that unit yet
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on April 23, 2005, 11:17:45 AM
dont know the firmware...and that is a good point...I dont believe that Tim has updated his firmware, and it may not be a coincidence that we have not seen this error on that unit yet

how was the show last night nick?  did you all get a a complete pull?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on April 23, 2005, 11:49:15 AM
So The stock 744T ships with a 5400rpm drive capable of sustained recording at 192/24 over 4 channels.  At  2 channels of 24/96, this thing should be getting bored at 1/4th the expected datarate.

that's what i thought.  thanks for the confirmation on the 5400 rpm drives!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 24, 2005, 12:08:03 AM
So Joe got a media too slow error last night midway into the first set...after a fresh format and drive repair before the show. At setbreak he siwthced from 24/96 to 24/48 and had zero problems in the second set...he and I were guessing the problem may be the HD may not be fast enough to keep up with 96....just a thought though

nick and tim say here they did that right before the show, thats whats so shitty bout this particular issue :(
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 24, 2005, 09:40:40 AM
I think Michael may be right here, that it is firmware related...Kevin Durant and Tims box both have the older firmware on it, and we have not had any of these problems....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 24, 2005, 10:39:31 AM
this thread is somewhat rediculous and its frustrating to see a great product and company getting some undeserved bashing

Boogie,

if you have not yet subscribed to the sounddevices support website, you should.  I am not the only person seeing these issues.  There are other people with the stock drive having this problem and I was not the first person to report it.  You may also note announcements in which the SD has indicated that they think they have fixed the media speed problem with friday's firmware release.  So clearly they acknowlege that there is an issue in their code.

You need to reread the threads.  Yes people are running chkdsk against the drives.  In my own case I had the media speed error four times on a drive that was reformatted and clean and written with contiguous sessions.  There was 0% fragmentation according to the analysis tool.

So as for undeserved bashing, I don't see that.  They shipped a device that has a very simple functionality.  It should work with fewer severe issues than it does.  The user should not have to do a magic dance before each show to ensure that the filesystem drivers don't fail during the session.   


Edit:  I'm happy for you that you've seen no problems.  My unit, after they repaired the firewire port, worked like a champ up until the latest firmware install. 
 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: trajhip2000 on April 24, 2005, 02:37:10 PM

i have seen zero problems with the stock drive...i know some of the people complaining on this thread are using aftermarket upgrade drives...methinks you might have created some of these problems yourself

also, regularly formatting the drive on this type of device should be standard practice...its a recorder, not a storage device

-clear drive of contents
-reformat
-record show
-copy recordings to workstation
-verify md5s on both sides
-delete from recorder
-reformat


well, in the manual SD themselves practically encourage people to switch out the HD if they want, as long as they guard against static - plus the drives that most people have switched in are not no-name drives (mine is a Toshiba 5400 rpm drive) - so I don't see that as a legitimate issue.

removing files and formatting after every recording may be a good general practice, but what if you're e.g. on a location shoot and can't do that? I don't think you can reasonably argue that SD owners shouldn't expect a file system robust enough to ensure file integrity out to the capacity limits of the drive under normal use conditions - as well as the ability to transfer files off the HD thru the FW interface without having to worry about corruption. Frustration at the units not meeting those fairly minimal requirements doesn't qualify as bashing in my book. I do give SD full credit for being responsive to these issues, but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed at either losing recordings or having to expend significant effort to repair them.

Steve
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: not logged in on April 24, 2005, 04:03:42 PM
in addition to the media too slow message there have been other problems with the 722.

i've had two problems that thus far are unique to me.

first there is the the disk full message (when the drive is in fact virtually empty).

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=39743.0

then there is a far more serious problem which i just discovered last night.  two files from some 15 hours of recording over the past week were corrupted.  they are corrupted on the 722--this is not a transfer issue.

the corrupted files repeat the same segment over and over again usually about 6 times before moving on to the next segment which is repeated 6 times or so and then the next following segment is repeated and so forth.  the entire file is like this.  the files before and after the corrupted file are fine however.

seems to me that 722 users are well advised to run a dat backup until the unit is more reliable.  that's my plan anyway even though its a pain.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 24, 2005, 05:27:56 PM
OK, so Tims 722 has SW version 1.15, and Carrington ran it for the full panic show, 24/96 with no error message...Kevin said last ngiht he hasnt upgraded the FW either, and also hasnt had a problem...I think the statement that this could be a FW issue may be dead on...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on April 24, 2005, 11:49:21 PM
Is reverting possible? I'll give up locking the transport for now if need be. I am yet to have any of the recording issues, just transfer issues, but nice to know I can if I need to.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 25, 2005, 12:12:28 AM
I don't recall where I read it but reverting is not a problem.

I installed fridays firmware release prior to this evening's Code Talkers show and did not experience any problem.

DISCLAIMER:  I also did not have a problem with the previous release until I had about 8 hours of music captured, so YMMV.

If you haven't seen the CodeTalkers with Herring, go.  The show fucking smoked and Herring is, without any doubt, a guitar god.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on April 25, 2005, 09:33:43 AM
So Joe got a media too slow error last night midway into the first set...after a fresh format and drive repair before the show. 

What firmware is in that box?  I didn't have any of these media speed problems prior to the most recent firmware update and I was hammering on the drive with all kids of fragmentation causing file manupilations over firewire.  This may be a latent bug, but it seems to be a causal relationship beterrn the appearence of these errors and the last firmware installation.

My opinion is that this has nothing at all to do with the speed of the media device.  This is a bug in the new firmware.  I want to know how that media speed error is detected.  If it is reported as media speed but is really a buffer overflow problem in the sample flow, that could be any number of things not at all related to the HD performance.

The stock 744T ships with a 5400rpm drive capable of sustained recording at 192/24 over 4 channels.  At  2 channels of 24/96, this thing should be getting bored at 1/4th the expected datarate.

I think you hit the nail on the head. it has to be a bug in the new firmware. we had NO issues before the upgrade, and we did 10 shows at 24/96 without a problem.


this thread is somewhat rediculous and its frustrating to see a great product and company getting some undeserved bashing

i have seen zero problems with the stock drive...i know some of the people complaining on this thread are using aftermarket upgrade drives...methinks you might have created some of these problems yourself

also, regularly formatting the drive on this type of device should be standard practice...its a recorder, not a storage device

-clear drive of contents
-reformat
-record show
-copy recordings to workstation
-verify md5s on both sides
-delete from recorder
-reformat

the fiesystem checking/format tools on the 722/744 itself are going to be less sophisticated that those available from the workstatoin itself...as witnessed by the defragmentation issues...these are only aggrevated by the fact you are dealing with large files that are easily fragmented even with minimal overall drive fragmentation

have the people having problems tried running "chkdsk <drive> /r" from their workstation connected to the device?

i will repeat...

-i have seen no problems with transfers over firewire (EVER) (all at 24/96)
-i have seen no probems with HD recording media (EVER) (again all at 24/96)
-i have had problems with CF media with the original firmware, but that is a different issue since resolved

i am using the stock HD and i typically reformat the HD before each recording run
 
get that old garbage off the recorder and/or cleanup that drive using the workstation



boogie



I see your point boogie, but does the box not have problems? several?! You pay 2500 bucks for a device, it should work properly. I don't want to update firmware every 5 days and when I do, i expect it to fix bugs, not create them.....I don't want to pass md5s back and forth, that's rediculous. I think the bashing on here has been quite tame. I have yet to even begin to express my frustration with this box. since the new firmware, several drive repairs and a reformat, I have taped 4 shows and walked away with 1 stinking complete show, and that was only at 24/48.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: bhtoque on April 25, 2005, 09:37:13 AM
I really sympathize with you guys. That thing should be rock solid with all the extra time they took to get it out.

I've been running two seperate rigs since I've had the R-4.

I just don't like having to pay for the honor of being a beta tester.

JAson
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on April 25, 2005, 09:46:33 AM

I just don't like having to pay for the honor of being a beta tester.

JAson

exactly.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: jmerin on April 25, 2005, 09:56:22 AM
I feel bad for the people that sell their v3, mini me, for this box.  if you ask me the SD is over priced/overrated and yet has problems.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 25, 2005, 10:01:34 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head. it has to be a bug in the new firmware. we had NO issues before the upgrade, and we did 10 shows at 24/96 without a problem.


FWIW-
Joe, I upgraded the firmware before the Fox run, so it was fine during the Truckers show (old FW) and fine during the Fox run.  The issues are coming after 10-11 hours of use.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 25, 2005, 10:33:12 AM
I feel bad for the people that sell their v3, mini me, for this box. if you ask me the SD is over priced/overrated and yet has problems.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but imo, the box sounds fantastic, and as stated earlier, I have had no problems that weren't user created.  Tim and Carrington ran a V2 in front of the 722 at panic on saturday and the tape sounded great, though I am not convinced how much of it was attributable to the V2 vs. it being the first time we ran it outside as compared to having run it indoors before...I am guessing there may be a difference, and it may be audible, but I am doubting it will be enough to convince me to carry a 6Volt again, an extra box, and more cables to fail (and if it is the minime, deal with the crap ergonomics). 

As for the problems that are having, yes it is absolutely frustrating...and I agree with Joe, to not walk away with a tape because a ~$2400 device fails sucks....That being said, I have had cases where I have not walked away with a tape, when the D100 misloaded, when the cables had shorts, when the SBM1 got too hot, when the MP2/V3/Deck/SBM1 Batts died, etc....bottom line, in those cases, I had alot more places for an error to occur.  With my current setup MG200s->cables->722, I have less spots for failure, no more external batts to carry, resulting in a smaller setup and lighter bag, and a great sounding 24 bit solution.

I have no doubt they will fix these problems....honestly sound devices and grace are the only 2 vendors in this arena who imo are at the tops of customer service...sound devices has always gone to the next level to address issues for me in the past, and appears to be doing it now as well..but as I said earlier..everyone is entitled to their opinion....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: twoodruff on April 25, 2005, 10:42:30 AM
what happens at 24/48? does the message show up?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 25, 2005, 10:43:14 AM
what happens at 24/48? does the message show up?

Joe didnt have it come up on Saturday night....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 25, 2005, 11:01:37 AM
I feel bad for the people that sell their v3, mini me, for this box. if you ask me the SD is over priced/overrated and yet has problems.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but imo, the box sounds fantastic

I'll second this: the box does sound fantastic.  I have not yet done the V3 high res comparison but my feeling is that I may just hang with the 722 by itself.  There is a bit of warmth or low end presence that differs from the V3+ANSR.  I find it to be a good compliment to the SD neumanns.

I have yet to even begin to express my frustration with this box.

You should have seen my the posts before I decided to edit them ;-) Losing the DAR fob recording was a heartbreaker.



BTW, the new firmware seems to have fixed the HD repair utility.  I ran it after the update but before a format and the old unrepairable errors were corrected this time.   In response to the opinion that I should not expect robust file system utilities on a device like this, wrong!  A device like this should have extensive testing and recovery capabilities because it is a field device.  Unlike my sorry ass attempts to pull a decent tape, there are guys who make their living with these things and they deserve to have exceptional tools available to ensure their captures make it home.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Tim on April 25, 2005, 11:03:56 AM
Losing the DAR fob recording was a heartbreaker.

Now, I'm pissed :P

I really wanted to hear that tape
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 25, 2005, 11:16:08 AM
Losing the DAR fob recording was a heartbreaker.

Now, I'm pissed :P

I really wanted to hear that tape

Yes, there were many unkind words spoken in the direction of Reedsburg WI.

I did get some chunks of it off the drive before the reformat.   If you want to hear those just to get a sense of how it sounded, I can offer those up.  I haven't tried to track them yet, it's too painful.  But I could do it this week.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on April 25, 2005, 12:01:37 PM
what happens at 24/48? does the message show up?

Joe didnt have it come up on Saturday night....

but we did yesterday in columbia @ 24/48. 5 mins. into the damn show. as far as I'm concerned, I have NO confidence in this box right now......and that pretty much makes it a POS in my book. That's a little harsh, but so is leaving a great show with an incomplete tape after running 21's from 12th row center...or 6' split 2's fob.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on April 25, 2005, 12:02:17 PM
Well, I'm gonna try this 1.32 for tonight ... hope this works.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 25, 2005, 12:13:32 PM
what happens at 24/48? does the message show up?

Joe didnt have it come up on Saturday night....

but we did yesterday in columbia @ 24/48. 5 mins. into the damn show. as far as I'm concerned, I have NO confidence in this box right now......and that pretty much makes it a POS in my book. That's a little harsh, but so is leaving a great show with an incomplete tape after running 21's from 12th row center...or 6' split 2's fob.

Unacceptable IMO

i think the only folks who are backing it up are the ones that are trying to justify the 2500 they dropped on it :P

and hard disk messages are a random thing, shorts/batts/misloads are MOST times user errors, not device errors :(
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 25, 2005, 12:17:11 PM
what happens at 24/48? does the message show up?

Joe didnt have it come up on Saturday night....

but we did yesterday in columbia @ 24/48. 5 mins. into the damn show. as far as I'm concerned, I have NO confidence in this box right now......and that pretty much makes it a POS in my book. That's a little harsh, but so is leaving a great show with an incomplete tape after running 21's from 12th row center...or 6' split 2's fob.

and splitting two stands FOB at a City festival is no cake walk...  worrying about a looped 16 year old taking out a flimsy FOB stand holding a cmc62 and a u89i and is one thing.  Obsessively checking the machine to make sure no errors occur is another.  Both are risks, and I don't mind assuming some risk, just not both.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 25, 2005, 12:19:29 PM
i think the only folks who are backing it up are the ones that are trying to justify the 2500 they dropped on it :P

and hard disk messages are a random thing, shorts/batts/misloads are MOST times user errors, not device errors :(

uh, no, I feel no need to justify anything....of course I could make the same argument on the flip side that those that are railing on this unit from the outside looking in are those that want to prove how they are smarter than those that bought it....but none of that is really relevant

sony portables misloading are device errors, as is the sbm1 getting to hot and shutting down, as is an audio magic cable having a short in it (all of which happened to me)....nothing I caused....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on April 25, 2005, 12:21:52 PM
i think the only folks who are backing it up are the ones that are trying to justify the 2500 they dropped on it :P

and hard disk messages are a random thing, shorts/batts/misloads are MOST times user errors, not device errors :(

uh, no, I feel no need to justify anything....of course I could make the same argument on the flip side that those that are railing on this unit from the outside looking in are those that want to prove how they are smarter than those that bought it....but none of that is really relevant

sony portables misloading are device errors, as is the sbm1 getting to hot and shutting down, as is an audio magic cable having a short in it (all of which happened to me)....nothing I caused....

lol

as is the minime spdif out being a picky pain in the balls and giving me diginoise and drops, as is me forgetting to press pause for the second set...oops, maybe not.  :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: mhibbs on April 25, 2005, 02:27:10 PM
I spent 5min trying to figure out why my ad1000 wouldn't lock Thurs night of Radio City.  I played w/ the input and sample rate selectors for a while, then Finally realized it wasn't ever going to lock w/ the sync source set to aes.  Felt really smart.  Luckily it was all before they came on.


mitch
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wbrisette on April 25, 2005, 02:30:05 PM
In response to the opinion that I should not expect robust file system utilities on a device like this, wrong!  A device like this should have extensive testing and recovery capabilities because it is a field device.  Unlike my sorry ass attempts to pull a decent tape, there are guys who make their living with these things and they deserve to have exceptional tools available to ensure their captures make it home.

I agree 100%. I have lost part of 1 show with the Deva and from what Zaxcom's engineers and I can figure out it was probably due to a compatibility issue with the firmware the drive was formatted with and the version I was using. I have not run into the problem before or since, so there must be something to their conclusion. On the other hand, Zaxcom took a different route with the internal hard drive. They choose to use their own disk format (MARF), which has been stable for close to 5 years now (it was the same format they used on the Deva II). The only downside is at least for a few more months I'm stuck with 4 GB partitions, so I have be very careful and watch the time. With 6 channels of audio I only get about an hour and twenty minutes of audio per partition (24/48). But they claim that will go away in a near future firmware update.

I haven't seen anybody with these issues on the 744T (at least they aren't posting to RAMPS), has anybody seen this with the 744, or has this issue been limited to firmware/722's?

Wayne
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 25, 2005, 02:35:09 PM
i think the only folks who are backing it up are the ones that are trying to justify the 2500 they dropped on it :P

and hard disk messages are a random thing, shorts/batts/misloads are MOST times user errors, not device errors :(

uh, no, I feel no need to justify anything....of course I could make the same argument on the flip side that those that are railing on this unit from the outside looking in are those that want to prove how they are smarter than those that bought it....but none of that is really relevant

sony portables misloading are device errors, as is the sbm1 getting to hot and shutting down, as is an audio magic cable having a short in it (all of which happened to me)....nothing I caused....

i def agree that it cuts down on more errors having one box. damn tho nick, youve had some bad luck it seems w/ stuff misloading and whatnot, ive been lucky, ive had ONE tape misload, and i didnt miss anything but the first song, and i cloned that off of someone at setbreak ;) and only had a power cable short on me once and it was def my spun fault :(

personally, the only reason it upsets me, is cause ideally id like to own one, and maybe once all of the kinks get worked out, i will, but im not gonna be a betatester like yinzare ;)

i mean 480>v3/722 would have to sound pretty decent, and ideally i wouldnt have to buy another box for quite sometime, 480>722 may just be the perfect match w/ a lil warm tone
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: trajhip2000 on April 25, 2005, 02:57:19 PM

I haven't seen anybody with these issues on the 744T (at least they aren't posting to RAMPS), has anybody seen this with the 744, or has this issue been limited to firmware/722's?

yep, right here (see my post on the 1st page of this thread). it happened prior to the latest firmware upgrade, but I've only run one show since, so I can't say for sure whether it's been fixed or not.

Steve
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: BobbyHurley on April 25, 2005, 03:08:04 PM
Lil Kim Jong Il sez:  "BTW, the new firmware seems to have fixed the HD repair utility.  I ran it after the update but before a format and the old unrepairable errors were corrected this time."

Joe, is the 1st set from 4/22 completely gone? Still have the 2nd set? The 481's sans 722 on 4/23 sound sexy.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 25, 2005, 03:18:48 PM
Lil Kim Jong Il sez: "BTW, the new firmware seems to have fixed the HD repair utility. I ran it after the update but before a format and the old unrepairable errors were corrected this time."

Joe, is the 1st set from 4/22 completely gone? Still have the 2nd set? The 481's sans 722 on 4/23 sound sexy.

so there finally is a 480>722 tape? PLEASE someone hook me up ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 25, 2005, 03:21:54 PM
so there finally is a 480>722 tape? PLEASE someone hook me up ;D

You talk it down only because you want it so bad ;-)

Sometime I need to run Joe's mod-460s into this thing.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on April 25, 2005, 03:38:17 PM
Lil Kim Jong Il sez:  "BTW, the new firmware seems to have fixed the HD repair utility.  I ran it after the update but before a format and the old unrepairable errors were corrected this time."

Joe, is the 1st set from 4/22 completely gone? Still have the 2nd set? The 481's sans 722 on 4/23 sound sexy.

gonna check everything out tonight.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: BobbyHurley on April 25, 2005, 04:07:50 PM
Sweet, brah.

You fixed my Oade pre-amp charger like nobody's business. Light goes out when it should now.

I have your patches for yesterday that I can upload to you if you need them. I need to patch a spot in Katie - bad tape or something.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 25, 2005, 04:11:04 PM
I need to patch a spot in Katie - bad tape or something.

wait, tapes arent perfect?? errors happen there as well?

<Yes I am being a complete smartass, and not to Wade, just in general :P >
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 25, 2005, 04:29:12 PM
Lil Kim Jong Il sez: "BTW, the new firmware seems to have fixed the HD repair utility. I ran it after the update but before a format and the old unrepairable errors were corrected this time."

Joe, is the 1st set from 4/22 completely gone? Still have the 2nd set? The 481's sans 722 on 4/23 sound sexy.

so there finally is a 480>722 tape? PLEASE someone hook me up ;D

too bad its a panic tape...   ??? 8) :o ::)

 :P

 ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 25, 2005, 04:35:16 PM
Lil Kim Jong Il sez: "BTW, the new firmware seems to have fixed the HD repair utility. I ran it after the update but before a format and the old unrepairable errors were corrected this time."

Joe, is the 1st set from 4/22 completely gone? Still have the 2nd set? The 481's sans 722 on 4/23 sound sexy.

so there finally is a 480>722 tape? PLEASE someone hook me up ;D

too bad its a panic tape... ??? 8) :o ::)

 :P

 ;)

i guess it will make do, im just dying to at least hear the combo ;D

i know i diss panic sometimes, but its all in good fun, really ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: reesey on April 25, 2005, 05:50:13 PM
i have been taping for 18 years and digitally taping for 14, and i have seldomnly if ever had a problem with equipment or transfers.  flowing effortlessly from one format to the next, buying and selling shit WAY too often, and still no issues.  seems to me all these problems are just the jynx on people that arent meant to tape.  you should take up hopscotch or something that doesnt have so many wires and buttons, and give me more room FOB side.  i'll run tomato cans (DIN or NOS) on strings and have a flawless recording.  damn pussies.  ;D

so did anyone actually pull a FOB of WSP @ DAR?  is there a BT in the future?  not that i want it  :P but my brother-in-law is jonsing.

<this is a lighthearted post and no harm is meant - i love you all and just thought lighheartedness may be in order>
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 25, 2005, 06:09:46 PM
so did anyone actually pull a FOB of WSP @ DAR?  is there a BT in the future?  not that i want it  :P but my brother-in-law is jonsing.

<this is a lighthearted post and no harm is meant - i love you all and just thought lighheartedness may be in order>

:-)

There were hardly any tapers at DAR anyway.  There were maybe 5 rigs in the section and I didn't see anyone else down front except for me and Joe.  I looked too.  If there was someone, they were running from the hat or keeping it really low.

I have chunks of the show but I seem to be missing enough that patching it would just be a travesty.  I could BT what I have if it's of interest.  I'm going to try to get it tracked in the next couple of days. 

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on April 25, 2005, 07:34:05 PM
I didn't even think that you taped, Scott?

edit:
SD claims that the media too slow error was a firmware 1.24 issue and is now fixed in v1.32.  We'll see how it goes this weekend.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: zhianosatch on April 26, 2005, 08:38:48 AM
as is the sbm1 getting to hot and shutting down,

nick,
where was the sbm when this happened? stealthing or open taping? how long did it take?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 26, 2005, 08:44:37 AM
as is the sbm1 getting to hot and shutting down,

nick,
where was the sbm when this happened? stealthing or open taping? how long did it take?

stealthing....ran it for a show a couple of years ago with 2 openers and a headliner....4 hours of music on a july night....got hot and shut down at the end of the goo goo dolls set....batts still had juice, so I assumed it was a heat problem...did not have a problem after that though...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: zhianosatch on April 26, 2005, 08:47:47 AM
as is the sbm1 getting to hot and shutting down,

nick,
where was the sbm when this happened? stealthing or open taping? how long did it take?

stealthing....ran it for a show a couple of years ago with 2 openers and a headliner....4 hours of music on a july night....got hot and shut down at the end of the goo goo dolls set....batts still had juice, so I assumed it was a heat problem...did not have a problem after that though...

got it. thanks!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on April 26, 2005, 12:15:47 PM
 ???

trying to recall, but don't think I've ever gotten a "media too slow" message on any dat recorder I've owned. :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on April 26, 2005, 12:23:04 PM
I spent 5min trying to figure out why my ad1000 wouldn't lock Thurs night of Radio City.  I played w/ the input and sample rate selectors for a while, then Finally realized it wasn't ever going to lock w/ the sync source set to aes.  Felt really smart.  Luckily it was all before they came on.


mitch

been there, done that. with 2 minutes to spare. ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: twoodruff on April 26, 2005, 12:54:41 PM
???

trying to recall, but don't think I've ever gotten a "media too slow" message on any dat recorder I've owned. :P


and you've owned them all
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 26, 2005, 08:07:32 PM
???

trying to recall, but don't think I've ever gotten a "media too slow" message on any dat recorder I've owned. :P


and you've owned them all

yes he has ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on April 27, 2005, 12:12:45 PM
...not the famous Fisher machine, the sv-255. the 722 appears to be Nate Fisher Ready. ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 29, 2005, 02:15:06 AM
i seem to have a glitch in my dylan recording from tonight.  when it split at the 2gb mark during the last tune, it's not clean at all.  i have an SDINFO.TXT file in the SOUNDDEV dir.  does that mean i had an error?

this sucks.  never had a problem before with the older (pre 1.32) firmware
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 29, 2005, 02:31:06 AM
it's actually on both 2GB marks.  both were unclean cuts
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on April 29, 2005, 07:31:25 AM
it's actually on both 2GB marks. both were unclean cuts

odd, I have not had any or heard of glitches happening at the cuts
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on April 29, 2005, 08:53:41 AM
If you haven't already, post that on the Sound Devices Support forum.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: OOK on April 30, 2005, 03:21:26 PM
You know.... I feel bad for all you guys who dumped 2K+ on a machine that the company didn't work out all of the bugs........It seems you guys have turned into ginnypigs for SD.......R+D.....If I am going to drop my hard earned money on a 2K+ piece of recording equipment........the dam thing better work right out of the box................There appears to be too many issues with this recorder to be worth the investment..................I would would be demanding my fucking money back!!!!!!!I hope M-Audio works out all issues before they release there 24bit96K recorder......and part of me hopes it blows the doors off of SD...They should be ashamed of doing this to people!I'm pissed and I don't even own one!!WTF
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 30, 2005, 04:18:35 PM
You know.... I feel bad for all you guys who dumped 2K+ on a machine that the company didn't work out all of the bugs........It seems you guys have turned into ginnypigs for SD.......R+D.....If I am going to drop my hard earned money on a 2K+ piece of recording equipment........the dam thing better work right out of the box................There appears to be too many issues with this recorder to be worth the investment..................I would would be demanding my fucking money back!!!!!!!I hope M-Audio works out all issues before they release there 24bit96K recorder......and part of me hopes it blows the doors off of SD...They should be ashamed of doing this to people!I'm pissed and I don't even own one!!WTF

great post, i feel the exact same way.

they really should be ashamed of themselves, its like giving everyone blueballs w/ all that anticipation

maybe SD will eventually release one that records only
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 30, 2005, 04:53:52 PM
>>There appears to be too many issues with this recorder to be worth the investment..................I would would be demanding my fucking money back!<<

i've had one total issue which added up to less than 1 second of bad audio.  i've been using it since february.

i love the box.  i knew what i was getting into when i bought it.  i knew there might be issues. 

i can live with less than 1 second of glitches in over 2 months. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on April 30, 2005, 05:01:06 PM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: caymanreview on April 30, 2005, 05:02:39 PM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

correct
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 30, 2005, 05:02:55 PM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

oh youre right, i just think we believe something should work out of the box for 2+k
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: caymanreview on April 30, 2005, 05:05:51 PM
i can live with less than 1 second of glitches in over 2 months. 

i think you would be hard pressed to find a setup that would be glitch free over that much time...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on April 30, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
I feel for everyone having problems with their 7xxs, but for those railing against SD - most of whom don't even own a 7xx, btw - I think it's important to remember two points:

[1]  first gen + complexity
This is a first generation device.  Every highly complex first generation device has bugs to work out, whether it's recording gear, cars, etc.  Even Grace Design - who generally receives nothing but rave reviews for customer service - had trouble with their first gen V3s:  miscalibrated low-batt indicators, DC offset, etc.  Granted, the problems only affected a relatively small number of units, and far as I know none rendered recordings unusable - but nonetheless, there were problems.

Now consider that the SD 7xx boxes are substantially more complex due to the HD and surrounding features and PC-connectivity, and it's no surprise there are issues.  While the problems are frustrating, certainly, what's important in my mind is how SD responds to the issues customers are facing.  So far, it seems they've responded reasonably swiftly and favorably in addressing known issues.

[2] the nature of online forums
There are likely plenty of people using 7xx boxes with no or minimal issues.  Forums like this tend to bring out primarily negative comments as a sounding board for people trying to resolve problems.  The satisfied users simply don't have a reason to post - they're too busy enjoying their new gear!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on April 30, 2005, 05:07:33 PM
i think you would be hard pressed to find a setup that would be glitch free over that much time...

My V3 / JB3 combo has been glitch-free for 9+ months.  I think...not positive unless I scour the forums for old posts of me bitching about a problem!  :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: caymanreview on April 30, 2005, 05:19:10 PM
i think you would be hard pressed to find a setup that would be glitch free over that much time...

My V3 / JB3 combo has been glitch-free for 9+ months. I think...not positive unless I scour the forums for old posts of me bitching about a problem! :P

ok, you got me, i just wasnt gonna say mine was too and jinx myself :P

my v3 > jb3 has never gave me one glitch ever
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Rick on April 30, 2005, 05:51:11 PM
Thank god they have good customer service. If it were a bigger company like Creative and Sony who knows how long it would take to fix these problems. But who knows if there would even be problems to begin with  :P I've been VERY tempted to back out on my 722 that's on order, but it appears to me they have been listening to the problems and fixing them as soon as they can. The support forum is really nice too. You can read what’s going in with the units

If I already had a HQ 24bit A/D converter, like the V3, there is no way I would shell $2k for this. But I don't see, at this time, anything this nice/quality that fits my needs. The M-Audio looks good, but who knows about; the battery life, 2GB size limit thing, the A/D, the pre-amp, levels monitoring and level controls. The R4 looks big and bulky. I didn’t like the stock Pre-amps and A/D on the UA-5.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 30, 2005, 06:34:50 PM
>>oh youre right, i just think we believe something should work out of the box for 2+k<<

but i think sound devices will be the first to say "these boxes are still a work in progress."  they don't claim the machines are perfect yet.  but they can claim that it's the only box for under like 7500 that does everything it does, and that is as small as it is. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on April 30, 2005, 08:21:03 PM
Yes it needs a little work to be stable but it pulls excellent recordings and going in I expected to have some issues because it is a new product.  I'm still glad I bought the 722.  For all my whining, I whined much more when I got home from tour and found that almost all my masters had dropouts because there was a bad batch of DAT tapes.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: OOK on April 30, 2005, 09:09:41 PM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

oh youre right, i just think we believe something should work out of the box for 2+k

Testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am with you again BEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 30, 2005, 09:18:50 PM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

oh youre right, i just think we believe something should work out of the box for 2+k

Testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am with you again BEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

 ;D 8)

i am really not trying to bash it, hell, if i wasnt 100% happy w/ my v3>jb3 rig,i prolly would have bought one, but i mean really, arent any of you that own one slightly pissed that it took 2+ years to come out, and then has firmware/firewire problems out of the box, at that point, id/ya'll should have wanted them to take another year and fix all of the bugs so it is flawless right out of the box

i would rather have something that is inferior that is RELIABLE than something that is cutting edge and doesnt work 100% of the time

and FWIW, my v3>jb3 setup hasbeen 100% perfect (knock onwood)so far,and ive prolly taped about 100+ sets easilyw/ it/them
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on April 30, 2005, 09:23:59 PM
so how many times are we going to have this conversation?

;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: OOK on April 30, 2005, 09:27:30 PM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

oh youre right, i just think we believe something should work out of the box for 2+k

Testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am with you again BEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

 ;D 8)

i am really not trying to bash it, hell, if i wasnt 100% happy w/ my v3>jb3 rig,i prolly would have bought one, but i mean really, arent any of you that own one slightly pissed that it took 2+ years to come out, and then has firmware/firewire problems out of the box, at that point, id/ya'll should have wanted them to take another year and fix all of the bugs so it is flawless right out of the box

i would rather have something that is inferior that is RELIABLE than something that is cutting edge and doesnt work 100% of the time

and FWIW, my v3>jb3 setup hasbeen 100% perfect (knock onwood)so far,and ive prolly taped about 100+ sets easilyw/ it/them


Hell I not bashing it either............Just trying to figure out why a company didn't put their product through real world conditions before releasing it to the public!!!!!!!!!!I would be a maniac If I bought one of these boxes and I didn't work 100% of the time!!!!!!Call me crazy, Like I said 2K+ is a lot for something that isn't working!!!!!I'll stcik with DAT....Now do I hope it all gets worked out... YES!!!!!!I DO.............but as its stands its a disappointment...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 30, 2005, 10:01:24 PM
slow down, take a deep breath. the space bar is that big bar at the bottom of the keyboard, and ez on the !, as you might wear it out.

 ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 30, 2005, 11:00:32 PM
>>i would rather have something that is inferior that is RELIABLE than something that is cutting edge and doesnt work 100% of the time<<

my dat didn't work 100% of the time.  diginoise/misloads/dropout/etc.  but DAT is/was the standard for how long?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on April 30, 2005, 11:16:51 PM
i never once had an issue with my M1.  flawless.  I can only hope my luck with the 722 is the same.  I'm staying positive.  I don't care what any of the haters say :)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 30, 2005, 11:38:04 PM
whatever man, hell, id rather own a MD if it was more reliable :P

its an internet message board, just dont read my posts then :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on April 30, 2005, 11:42:06 PM
yeah boogie, the JB3 was extremely unreliable in the early days.  i almost forgot about that

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Rick on April 30, 2005, 11:57:18 PM
I'm not defending the 722/744 bashing, but unlike the 722/744 the JB3 wasn’t $2k+ and it was primarily a MP3 player not a professional audio recorder, so you can't really compare them.

It seems to me, most of the people who are not getting a 722/744 are probably a little jealous and the people who have one or are getting one are a little too defensive and want to justify spending that much. I'm in the later :) I do think if you’re going to spend this much money it should work, but I also think one should expect a few bugs. I would assume that most computer based hardware has some bugs, otherwise there wouldn't be firmware. I'm just glad they are fixing them.

Rick
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on May 01, 2005, 02:01:29 AM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

oh youre right, i just think we believe something should work out of the box for 2+k

Testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I am with you again BEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

 ;D 8)

i am really not trying to bash it, hell, if i wasnt 100% happy w/ my v3>jb3 rig,i prolly would have bought one, but i mean really, arent any of you that own one slightly pissed that it took 2+ years to come out, and then has firmware/firewire problems out of the box, at that point, id/ya'll should have wanted them to take another year and fix all of the bugs so it is flawless right out of the box

i would rather have something that is inferior that is RELIABLE than something that is cutting edge and doesnt work 100% of the time

and FWIW, my v3>jb3 setup hasbeen 100% perfect (knock onwood)so far,and ive prolly taped about 100+ sets easilyw/ it/them

bean,

please STFU on this issue...if you dont like the SD boxes, leave it at that and quit bashing unless you are interested in helping to fix the issue..since you dont even have one of these boxes and dont seem to be interested in getting one i dont see how you can really provide any relevant input

speaking of the v3 and firewire...i sure am glad i didnt take the bait and buy one in hope of the "firewire upgrade" that never came out...in my book grace never delivered and i'm glad i didnt take them at their word

the 722 has worked flawlessly for me...some people have had problems and there does seem to be a real issue with file splits on the newest firmware

regarding your JB3....hope you never had the misfortune to run that box with its early revs of firmware....it had MANY problems..the least of which was its lack of any meters whatsoever...they got it working to a reasonable level with future releases....as will SD

boogie

p.s.--i'm more than happy to have a box that has worked well to this point that may not be perfect and made by a company who has shown a great track record of fixing problems when they come up...fact is hard drive recorders are a new platform for every company and no one has it dialed in yet






and the thing regarding the jb3 is: it wasnt released as a recorder, it was mainly an mp3/wav player, it just so happens creative took the iniative and made it a bit-perfect 16/48 recorder taboot, however, the 722/744 were meant to be field recorders, thats why it seems they screwed up on that regard
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on May 01, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
well, like you said about the 722 series, i have had ZERO problems w/ my jb3 and thats transferring HUNDREDS of dats to it and also using it in the 'field' hundreds of times, so youre jb3 info isnt the most 'up-to-date- either, and like you said, it was built w/ being an mp3 in mind, NOT a recorder

im done on this repetitive convo, i was simply stating that i think SD basically sucks for not putting a product out the right way,especially after a 2+ year time it took them to release the thing and especially w/ a 2+k price tag

and all of us dont want an all-in-one box, at leats not from SD, grace yes, SD no ;D we want anicecompact digi-input recorderw/a nice size HD and 24/96 compatibility, but w/ no pre/ad

someone has to do that hopefully


Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on May 01, 2005, 10:56:15 AM
we want anicecompact digi-input recorderw/a nice size HD and 24/96 compatibility, but w/ no pre/ad


everyone keeps saying they want a box with no pre or a/d...i can't think of any other recording deivce other than the jb3 which Bean has painstakingly pointed out was mean as a mp3 player, which records a digi-signal only, has no pre or a/d.  every dat deck has a pre and an a/d.  why do you think somebody is suddenly going to start making such a device now?

edit: now i remember, even the jb3 can record analog in so it has an a/d as well, right?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 01, 2005, 10:59:50 AM
is it me or does it seem that the people that are most pissed off about the 722 and its issues do not own one?

thanks for stating what I have been trying to see very politically since the beginning...though I dont own one yet (hope to have mine soon), Tim has graciously been allowing me to put his through the ringer, and honestly, this box is everything I want and more...am I stupid for wanting to buy a $2400 recorder?  Only to those that wouldnt do it themselves...as for the software glitches, I dont think those bitching about it understand a thing about SW development cycles...at Nortel, when we release SW, our first load is our most stable...every time...then as your fixing bugs, it takes you several iterations to work the bugs out until you gain that stability back...SD will do the same thing here...very typical of a SW development cycle...does it suck when we dont get tapes?  absolutely...but speaking for myself, I am happy with their attention to our concerns (SD is tops in customer service imo) and speed in trying to adress them.....

is the box expensive?  yes...absolutely...that is why I am patient with them to work out the bugs because I can see myself using this for a long time coming...

and for those looking for the 24 bit recorder in the JB3 vein, that is cheap, powers enough for a show off of internal batts, does not resample and does not have glitches...good luck...hope it comes out, because it just means better tapes for all of us.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 01, 2005, 11:08:12 AM
>>im done on this repetitive convo, i was simply stating that i think SD basically sucks for not putting a product out the right way,especially after a 2+ year time it took them to release the thing and especially w/ a 2+k price tag<<


what's not right about it?  it's actually BETTER than many product launches (minime, jb3, both metric halo boxes which are just now getting functionality promised 2 years ago) because sound devices is VERY active in making any issues known and ironing them out

it was pointed out earlier, but the most vocal 722 and Sound Devices basher here doesn't even own the damn box.  so shut up already about it.  

I've owned PLENTY of gear over the years, and i've never gotten customer service like i get with the 722 except when i was dealing with my mp2, which is ALSO a sound devices product.  coincidence?  i think not.  Sound Devices simply rocks when it comes to customer service and fixing any potential problems

I love my 722.  I was a sound devices fluffer before, but now that i'm a 722 owner i *really* love them.  they nailed it with this box.  notice how i'm a user and i'm saying the exact opposite of Bean, a non-user.  I've even run into an isse with my box, and i STILL love it.  why?  because it is everything I wanted from a box.  I'm also a software developer and I know all about what goes on with this stuff.  SD is doing a hell of a job

no, i'm not trying to justify this purchase at all.  It's worth every penny, and then some.

So this SD bashing from someone who just seems to want to hate the box and company no matter what is just bullshit.  there's plenty of us out here who are extremely pleased with the box, and it's not some fake justification.  it's legit
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: zhianosatch on May 01, 2005, 12:03:36 PM
that was totally daryan! ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on May 01, 2005, 12:14:04 PM
So, to summarize (for those new to the thread, and hopefully to put an end to the banter since there's no need to repeat all of this ad nauseum):

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: zhianosatch on May 01, 2005, 12:16:10 PM
nah,... well yes it was D, but the dang things break off the circuit board of the jb3 dealies with fair frequency.

I'm shutting up now.

i mean, i don't want to ever absolve daryan of any blame that could possibly be his. :)
i'm happy for you guys who have gotten the jb3 to work so well for so long. i knew when i first held the one i bought from daryan that i'd never be able to use it reliably. i turned it on for about 10 seconds and shut it off, knowing that, in the words of the big lebowki, "nothing is FUCKED? the GOD-DAMNED PLANE has crashed into the mountain!"
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on May 01, 2005, 12:26:47 PM
again you missed the entire point of my post...

Perhaps the point Bean is trying to make is that the JB3 was not intended as a field recorder - they just happened to include a record feature, it's a nice add-on to it's primary role as MP3 player - whereas the 7xx is fully intended as a field recorder.  Regardless, it is what it is and I believe this thread is now a dead horse.

and your love of grace is bewildering considering their track record of even delivering on their promised firewire interface for the V3

I never heard or read of Grace committing to deliver a firewire interface, though I do recall them suggesting they would consider it.  Regardless, it seems they made the right choice:  a firewire interface at this stage of the game - with portable 24-bit recorders hitting the market, most wired for S/PDIF and/or AES/EBU - would be useless to most field recordists, whether hobbyists, pro audio, or ENG.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on May 01, 2005, 01:00:40 PM
i talked to both grace brothers at last years aes convention in regards to the Firewire output of the V3.

They said while they had considered it, firewire technology is still sort of expensive to implement into the V3(and maintain the same quality of the box) and they don't see the point of it for the exact reasons Brian Skalinder mentioned above.

Maybe they've changed their minds, but i wouldn't bet on it.  Their money makers are the m901/2, 201's, and 801s anyway. I'll believe it when Grace has it on their web page and not on a dealer's.  That's all advertiseing to get you buy the V3 at this point IMO
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: OOK on May 01, 2005, 01:23:39 PM
So, to summarize (for those new to the thread, and hopefully to put an end to the banter since there's no need to repeat all of this ad nauseum):

  • Some users are experiencing issues with their SD 7xxs.
  • Some users are not experiencing issues with their SD 7xxs.
  • All complex first-gen devices have problems initially, and the 7xxs are no exception.
  • SD is responding well to issues as they arise.
  • The 7xxs are not unique:  other field devices we use have issues as well - V3, MiniMe, JB3, various flavors of DAT, etc.
  • STFU Bean!!  :P

I can agree with all of this except the part about telling BEAN to STFU....he has just as much right to speak as anyone else on this board........about any issue......I am the one who started this last round of controversy with my comment.......which I still stick by....2k+ is a lot of money for something that isn't working out of the box.......when it becomes more stable I might consider buying one, but not until the issues are worked out......I am merely stating the company should have taken the time to make the fixes before releasing it to the public...........
Let me put it to you this way....When SD released that they were going to make this recorder...If they  stated it doesn't work all the time...it has programing issues.there are glitches oh and its 2k+ would you still buy it.....no! because they are admitting it doesn't work properly yet.......they didn't so people bought it and have to deal with the issues after the fact......I just think thats wrong.  As for customer service it better be good or they will lose product support.
Call me crazy but doesn't anyone else beside bean see this........
People can spend there money however they want.....I just expect more for my hard earned cash. I will wait and see what happens.  Will it all work out yes....It has too.....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on May 01, 2005, 01:29:52 PM
(http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif)

so how many times are we going to have this conversation?

;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on May 01, 2005, 01:38:30 PM
I can agree with all of this except the part about telling BEAN to STFU....

It was a joke, hence the :P at the end.

Practically speaking, early adopters know they're in for bugs when they try out new devices - regardless of the type of device.  You're obviously not an early adopter type, else you wouldn't rail so repeatedly against SD.  The reality is that no one can release a highly complex, high-tech product without bugs in the first generation.  If that reality is unacceptable to you, well...you have a few options.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 01, 2005, 02:45:42 PM
>>2k+ is a lot of money for something that isn't working out of the box.......when it becomes more stable I might consider buying one, but not until the issues are worked out......I am merely stating the company should have taken the time to make the fixes before releasing it to the public...........<<

They did.  That's why dealers got demo 744 units back in september.  They took them out and tested them even more.  The thing about software is that bugs don't always show up right away.  Look at any software app that you have that's got a bug.  That bug wasn't found until after the software shipped.  Does that mean the company that released it sucks?  No.  It means they just missed it. 

Now my 722 worked fine right out of the box.  Sound Devices has been adding features in subsequent firmwares though, and in the process might have caused some bug to show up.  Does that mean the company sucks and is deceiving customers?  Hell no.


>>Let me put it to you this way....When SD released that they were going to make this recorder...If they  stated it doesn't work all the time...it has programing issues.there are glitches oh and its 2k+ would you still buy it.....no!<<


Yes.  I did.  Tthat's exactly what happened.  They have a list of "known issues" on their site.  They also have a forum dedicated to these boxes.   They're not trying to hide anything.  They've been excellent in taking user feedback and putting it towards improving the boxes.  That's what I expect from a box that cost 2300 bucks, and they've delivered on that.

>>because they are admitting it doesn't work properly yet.......they didn't so people bought it and have to deal with the issues after the fact......I just think thats wrong.  As for customer service it better be good or they will lose product support.<<

Again, Sound Devices never tried to hide anything.  If they were hiding things, they wouldn't have known issues published on their site and public support forums. 

The only glitch I've run into was introduced in the latest firmware and has to do with 1 specific situation.  Sound Devices was informed, admitted they could duplicate the problem, and should have a fix next week.  THAT is what my $2300 bucks gets me.  THAT is good support
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on May 01, 2005, 03:27:23 PM
i do believe SD has great support and customer service3, hopefully all known bugs will be fixed in a very soon future firmware, and everything will work out nicely, cause it would def be grand to have 60-80GB of HD space to write all of the 24/96 your heart could desire ;D

otheronek, i feel ya man, great minds think alike ;)

i have to hear this thing w/ the 480's tho, bet its nice and rounded, maybe a v3/722 comp w/the 480's is due this summer :)

either way, i think it may turn out to be the best boxever quite hoinestly, it just sucks yinz gotta work out the bugs ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: OOK on May 01, 2005, 06:49:30 PM
i do believe SD has great support and customer service3, hopefully all known bugs will be fixed in a very soon future firmware, and everything will work out nicely, cause it would def be grand to have 60-80GB of HD space to write all of the 24/96 your heart could desire ;D

otheronek, i feel ya man, great minds think alike ;)

i have to hear this thing w/ the 480's tho, bet its nice and rounded, maybe a v3/722 comp w/the 480's is due this summer :)

either way, i think it may turn out to be the best boxever quite hoinestly, it just sucks yinz gotta work out the bugs ;)


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on May 01, 2005, 08:29:58 PM
Having been one to experience a few problems, I'll say it is (was) a bummer.  But I expected it to happen being one of the early adopters, especially running it under "our" conditions.  While its expensive, I think its cheap when compared to many of the other classic field devices to come out..  The ad1000 was super expensive when it was first introduced, and how much did the ad2k cost when it came out?  $1800 for nothing more than an a/d.  This isn't a cheap hobby in case anyone forgot. 

Any doubts I had about this gem of a box were erased last night when I packed my bag for the Crowes show in Asheville.  I pulled out my smallest MountainSmith bag, The Verve.  In case you've not seen it, its tiny.  Small like my wife's purse.  I was able to put a clamp, a20s, NOS and DIN bars, mk41/mk21/actives/cmc6xt, interconnects, 722, and walk out the door.  Getting in the car, Cynthia asked me why I wasn't taping the show.  She asked were the gear was when I said that I was taping, she had to open the bag herself to believe that I had everything in there. 

Home now, listening to the show, and I can honestly say this box is all that I want.  Does it smoke the V3 as an all in one, no.  Does it sounds as good, yes.  Easily.  And not carrying a backpack to show anymore is worth the marginal difference in cash I spent on the new V3 and any DAT recorder and external batteries ($1400 V3, $700+ for first D8 & cables, plus $5 tapes). 

The convenience is a really nice thing.  And its only going to get better... 

I wish some of the haters would have a chance to run it for a show.  I think it would be a lot more quiet in this forum
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: F.O.Bean on May 01, 2005, 08:34:35 PM
wanna lend me yours william ;D

for real tho, once it all gets panned out and I have a chance to run it w/ the 480's, i may sell the v3/jb3 rig IMMEDIATELY after i run it a few shows, it would def be nice to be able to run ONE BOX for real, instead of having the all in one pre/ad+recorder

is it a bit warmer than the v3 by a touch ??? that may be what im looking for down the road
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on May 01, 2005, 08:37:05 PM
Having been one to experience a few problems, I'll say it is (was) a bummer.  But I expected it to happen being one of the early adopters, especially running it under "our" conditions.  While its expensive, I think its cheap when compared to many of the other classic field devices to come out..  The ad1000 was super expensive when it was first introduced, and how much did the ad2k cost when it came out?  $1800 for nothing more than an a/d.  This isn't a cheap hobby in case anyone forgot. 

Any doubts I had about this gem of a box were erased last night when I packed my bag for the Crowes show in Asheville.  I pulled out my smallest MountainSmith bag, The Verve.  In case you've not seen it, its tiny.  Small like my wife's purse.  I was able to put a clamp, a20s, NOS and DIN bars, mk41/mk21/actives/cmc6xt, interconnects, 722, and walk out the door.  Getting in the car, Cynthia asked me why I wasn't taping the show.  She asked were the gear was when I said that I was taping, she had to open the bag herself to believe that I had everything in there. 

Home now, listening to the show, and I can honestly say this box is all that I want.  Does it smoke the V3 as an all in one, no.  Does it sounds as good, yes.  Easily.  And not carrying a backpack to show anymore is worth the marginal difference in cash I spent on the new V3 and any DAT recorder and external batteries ($1400 V3, $700+ for first D8 & cables, plus $5 tapes). 

The convenience is a really nice thing.  And its only going to get better... 

I wish some of the haters would have a chance to run it for a show.  I think it would be a lot more quiet in this forum

well said, 4/22 and the mule show still chaps my ass though. :P  Hopefully, the troubles are over.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on May 01, 2005, 08:46:30 PM
I don't have any frame of reference for last night's recording as I have never recorded 1)Black Crowes 2)at Thomas Wolfe.  Besides, it was the 21's so they are warm as all get out to begin with, and the tapes are flat out awesome, even run at shoulder level.  Nick Gregory was actually recorded the show and told me that he ran it hot as well, which is true, especially now that I see it in cd wave.  Still, I've listened to it digi out of the 722 into my NAD 763 and I'm hard pressed to hear any compression or other artifacts from being run a little on the hot side, just like what you expect from running the v3 hot.

I was able to work around the issue that Scott experienced with the glitches at the end of the file.  I just set the auto split at 4gb, and during the encore pause, Nick pressed stop and started a new file.  Nothing is lost because of the 5 second pre roll function.


well said, 4/22 and the mule show still chaps my ass though. :P  Hopefully, the troubles are over.

yeah..  sucky about the Mule b/c we were the only one FOB.  No way a decent tape came out of the back of that room.  Panic sucks too, but by all accounts, the bases were covered.  Would have been nice to have an FOB 480>v3 source.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 01, 2005, 08:57:29 PM
I don't have any frame of reference for last night's recording as I have never recorded 1)Black Crowes 2)at Thomas Wolfe.

Well at least you know now the black crowes rock

in all seriousness, I have been listening to my tape for the past 6 hours...(have listened to it three times...the wife is getting ready to throw me out :P ), but this box sounds absolutely fantastic...I have said it before...and still believe it
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 01, 2005, 09:05:22 PM
>>I was able to work around the issue that Scott experienced with the glitches at the end of the file.  I just set the auto split at 4gb, and during the encore pause, Nick pressed stop and started a new file.  Nothing is lost because of the 5 second pre roll function. <<

isn't it 2 seconds?  anyway, that's a great way around the problem.  a quick stop and start should do it. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 01, 2005, 09:06:31 PM
>>I was able to work around the issue that Scott experienced with the glitches at the end of the file. I just set the auto split at 4gb, and during the encore pause, Nick pressed stop and started a new file. Nothing is lost because of the 5 second pre roll function. <<

isn't it 2 seconds? anyway, that's a great way around the problem. a quick stop and start should do it.

not sure how long the buffer is, but honestly, I stopped and started rolling all within a second....very quck reaction time unlike DAT, I am guessing nothing was missed....not ideal, but a workaround til they get this bug fixed....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on May 01, 2005, 09:25:40 PM
>>I was able to work around the issue that Scott experienced with the glitches at the end of the file.  I just set the auto split at 4gb, and during the encore pause, Nick pressed stop and started a new file.  Nothing is lost because of the 5 second pre roll function. <<

isn't it 2 seconds?  anyway, that's a great way around the problem.  a quick stop and start should do it. 

pre roll at 96k is 5 seconds, or so the manual says.  I haven't really paid much attention to it though... just took it as a given, but I'll pay attention the next time I hit record.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Mic D on May 01, 2005, 10:10:51 PM
either way, i think it may turn out to be the best boxever quite hoinestly,

Fluffer!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 01, 2005, 11:23:02 PM
>>it WAS on the grace site in the past...that is my point...that material CAME from Grace, not from the vendors<<

from the wayback machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/20021026154229/http://www.gracedesign.com/products/V3/V3frame.htm


says: •Operates on 6V DC and includes a locking DC connector for confidence when operating in the field.
Future expansion capabilities allow for implementation of direct-to-computer connection such as USB 2.x, Firewire, mLan etc.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on May 01, 2005, 11:31:23 PM
grace wrote the spec sheet and the Q&A answers..the vendors just posted it

I remember those postings, and at no time do I recall Grace committing to the V3 firewire interface.  Thanks to Scott for the Grace quote from the Wayback Machine - "allows" != "it's coming on X date".  At any rate, we can mince the words all we want - but I believe the fact remains Grace made the right decision.

its sad that grace has never "finished" the v3 and added a high speed computer interface that could effectively take advantage of its higher bit depth and sample rates....

It's easy enough to take advantage of the V3s higher bit depth and sample rates - run into a PC.

i would have loved to have used the v3 directly into a computer at 24/96 without having to buy ANOTHER input box...

Again, it's not difficult to run any number of interfaces into PC to support the V3s higher bit depth and sample rate.  Adding a PCMCIA card to a laptop - easy.  Adding an external interface box - not as easy, but still pretty darn simple.  Not fundamentally different than running my Hosa ODL-312 digital format converter - it's just another box to power and on which I have to ensure solid cable connections.  The ability to transfer via JB3 in all of about 3min / hr of music made it all worthwhile.  Apparently, in your case, capturing higher bit depth and sample rates didn't warrant spending a few bucks on the additional box.  I can understand that decision as I made the same one (though mine had more to do with the PITA of a PC, not the interface box), but to somehow "blame" Grace for not providing your ideal solution is a cop out - and doesn't acknowledge the simple fact that you could have done it easily and cheaply enough had you really wanted to do so.

as far as their reason of firewire being too expensive, i dont buy it... they might notice that there are firewire capable preamps made by other vendors starting in price at $200 (total price)...the point of the computer interface is obvious to other vendors...esp for portable preamps that also include A/D stage

I suspect the manufacturer's of those other devices also have a helluva lot broader market than Grace.  Grace's products are a relatively niche market, not mass consumption devices like the $200 firewire capable preamps that every Joe Schmoe uses in their "home studio".  Obviously, they had to decide:  will they sell enough units, at a high enough margin, to recover their $N investment.  When they likely saw the writing on the wall that the future of high res recorders wasn't computer-based at all, the decision probably very quickly became "no".

fortunately i never bought into their upgrade strategy that never materialized...i've been waiting..i'm still waiting

You won't have to wait much longer - the 7xx will support the V3s higher bit depth and sample rates.  'Course, for my money it's too expensive for all I want it to do:  record.  But other devices will soon follow.  Perhaps the proposed M-Audio box will be the one, maybe the one after that will do the trick.  Who knows.  Their upgrade strategy hasn't materialized simply because it's taken time for the industry to produce higher bit depth and sample rate capable recording devices for the market - not through any fault of Grace's upgrade strategy.

At any rate, the solution you seek is coming, and Grace's decision will IMO prove wholly appropriate - the 7xx and future boxes won't take a firewire input from the V3, but rather S/PDIF and AES/EBU.  A lot of good a firewire interface would do you, then!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on May 02, 2005, 01:04:44 AM
as far as firewire as an interface...check a sweetwater catalog if you doubt it has a future as an interconnect for audio devices...if anything, interfaces like S/PDIF and AES/EDU are likely to have a more difficult time than an interconnect like firewire that supports nearly any application/use

No doubt firewire has its place.  But how many of the current portable field recorders include a firewire input?  How many of the just now forthcoming 24-bit field recorders include a firewire input?

the point of this whole grace dialog was that...GRACE (the fluffers choice) promised/alluded/insinuated/whatever that there would be a firewire upgrade path for the V3 and failed to deliver (something some people here seem to have forgotten)....

You've made your point with the dialog - you assumed Grace would deliver functionality they never claimed they would deliver.  No word games here, you're the only one playing word games by making assumptions about ambiguous statements.  The fact remains:  one can't fail to deliver something if one never commits to delivering it in the first place.  If you consider "Future expansion capabilities allow for implementation of direct-to-computer connection such as USB 2.x, Firewire, mLan etc." a tangible commitment to their user base, so be it - I'm obviously not going to change your mind.  Suit yourself, and I hope you're enjoying your bitter disappointment - whether it's related to Grace's upgrade strategy, or the SD bashing here by a select few.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on May 02, 2005, 08:05:52 AM
>>I was able to work around the issue that Scott experienced with the glitches at the end of the file.  I just set the auto split at 4gb, and during the encore pause, Nick pressed stop and started a new file.  Nothing is lost because of the 5 second pre roll function. <<

isn't it 2 seconds?  anyway, that's a great way around the problem.  a quick stop and start should do it. 

pre roll at 96k is 5 seconds, or so the manual says.  I haven't really paid much attention to it though... just took it as a given, but I'll pay attention the next time I hit record.


There is a pre-roll buffer length configuration menu option(9).
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 02, 2005, 08:40:44 AM
Instead of stop and start, what if you just used the record button while recording to split the files (set menu option to split on record press)? Would that solve the problem too, rather than stop-start?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 02, 2005, 09:08:05 AM
i think "not logged in" ran in to the same issue doing that as the auto split.  not sure though
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: not logged in on May 02, 2005, 09:35:13 AM
yep...same problem where you split the file manually (by pushing the record button while recording).

but with a manual split between songs, the glitch can be fixed without messing up a song.

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Rick on May 02, 2005, 09:47:33 AM
looks like they fixed the split problem

Quote from: matta33178
You are correct.  There will be new firmware Weds which will fix this.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Kevin Straker on May 02, 2005, 10:54:46 AM
If anyone wants to borrow my V3>dap1 LMK ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on May 02, 2005, 11:06:44 AM
If anyone wants to borrow my V3>dap1 LMK ;D ;D ;D



can I get a copy of your Saturday night Raleigh?  Soulive in NYC? 

:P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Kevin Straker on May 02, 2005, 11:11:27 AM
If anyone wants to borrow my V3>dap1 LMK ;D ;D ;D



can I get a copy of your Saturday night Raleigh?  Soulive in NYC? 

:P

Point taken. Lets not talk about that Soulive show. I've never seen that much tape come out of a deck! But still, my average over the raleigh>cola run was higher than the 722's. The sat second set was all that took a dump on me and still managed to kick an analog V3 to your 722. (so at least the set was not lost)

Oh yeah, I need a copy of that.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on May 02, 2005, 11:29:45 AM
In 11 years, I never had a problem with my D7.  I had plenty of media problems though - Sony's new shell causing load problems, unlabelled KAO fiasco, bad batch that had dropouts.  I remember in '93-'94 timeframe when a bad shipment of DATs was blamed on them sitting out in the sun on a dock after the earthquake in Japan.  At least with the 722 there won't be any issues like that.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 02, 2005, 11:51:51 AM
SD was first notified of this split problem riday morning, and we'll have a fix by wed.  that is cool
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on May 02, 2005, 12:03:54 PM
SD was first notified of this split problem riday morning, and we'll have a fix by wed.  that is cool


i haven't seen a discussion of the split problem, can you point me to it?  i'm curious cause when i ran michael's I noticed that one channel was a "sample" or something longer than the other on 1 or 2 of the splits.  not really that big of a deal, but curious if you saw the same problem or a different one?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: JasonR on May 02, 2005, 12:17:16 PM
SD was first notified of this split problem riday morning, and we'll have a fix by wed.  that is cool


Very impressive!  They first duplicated the problem in-house within a few business hours of initial notification (Friday), and today we already have notification of an upcomming firmware fix.  I'm feeling so much more confident about picking up a 722 today.  :)  I was planning to run without splits and deal with the overly large WAVs in post, but this is great news.  First recording will be Arlo Guthrie on Saturday - front row balcony, DFC.  :)

dmonterisi - The thread on SoundDevicesSupport.com is here: http://sounddevicessupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=192 (reg required)

- Jason
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on May 02, 2005, 12:37:03 PM
i can't get to the SD forum, i don't own CSBs, much less a 722.... :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 02, 2005, 12:49:43 PM
relevant posts on it for Damon:

i have my 722 set to auto split at 2GB

tonight the 2GB split was not clean at all. i seem to have some lost music and also some repeated music.

i have an SDINFO.TXT file in the SOUNDDEV dir. does that mean i had an error?

i'm on 1.32 and i formatted the drive before running this take. never had a problem on firmware before 1.32

from Scott, describing the problem

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

i've experienced the same type of glitch twice.

the first time a segment was repeated at the end of a file. in addition a relatively short (5-10 secs) file was created with a different repeated segment.

the second time a segment was repeated at the end of the file. there was no additional repeated short file.

i described the first episode to sd tech support two days ago.

from not logged in

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never mind on sending the stuff. I think that I've duplicated it here. Just to make sure that it is the same exact thing:

I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), where there will either be a section of silence or a tiny loop from earlier.

Is this exactly what you both are seeing? Please let me know as soon as you can.

Thanks,
Matt

from Matt at SD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on May 02, 2005, 01:00:31 PM
thanks nick...not the issue that i saw, but i bet that was fixed already anyway, if it was even a common problem at all....
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian Skalinder on May 02, 2005, 04:25:23 PM
Thanks for the more detailed input, boogie.

many devices can record, and in fact most people who record at high bit rates today are NOT using dedicated "portable recorders"

So what devices are they using - non-portable, rack-mounted devices?  I'm genuinely curious.  My assumption (perhaps a poor one) was that most users utilize the V3  as a portable field device.  For mobile or studio rack-mounted, I assumed people would select a different pre/ADC.  I know I would.

-the 722 has a firewire port that could potentially be used as an input in the future with different firmware (SD has already discussed using the firewire port for direct 722-device (DVD-R, HD, etc) support in the future with firmware releases 2.x)

Exciting to see SD built the potential into the device - does the fact that the mere potential exists mean that they've committed to delivering this upgrade strategy?  :P

in fact today i can hook up an R-1 or an R-4 to my computer and record to them directly....so in fact they DO support input over their high speed interface...

Ehhh...but then you still have to lug around a PC/Mac/laptop.  Defeats the whole point of the portable recorder - IMO the point is to replace PC/Mac/laptops in the field with these more easily powered, easily configured, reliable devices.

too bad the V3 is a "stupid" box without a control OS that could perform this function even if it had high speed interfaces

Curious - what other currently available truly portable pres/ADCs have a control OS to support this function?  I'm wondering if Grace lags behind the market, or if the market is yet to materialize / stabilize - really, just seeking to understand the current state.

-nearly every apple laptop made for the last several years has a firewire port that could be used for input and recording from the V3

True enough, but adding a simple, inexpensive transfer device provides this connectivity.  I appreciate your desire to remove the intermediate step - that's why I got my V3 modded for optical output, to remove that intermediate step.

-many pc/x86 laptops made in the last several years have a firewire port that can be used for input (the ones that dont have it natively are easily upgraded) from the V3

So one may easily upgrades the PC to support firewire, or easily add an interface device - I don't see the difference.  They're both easy, inexpensive solutions.

firewire is a a BETTER choice for a high speed interconnect than USB as it is a peer-peer technology and not a master-slave technology. unfortunatly some manufacturers have historically seen firewire as a less compatible interface than USB or USB2..this belief is changing as the obvious technical benefits of firewire, esp in device chains is apparent

No doubt peer-to-peer is better than master-slave.  As you suggest, hopefully the industry is recognizing the power of the this type of interface.

Anyway, perhaps my assumption above (re portable field devices) is poor, but mainly my perspective is that even now it's premature for Grace to consider a firewire add-on to the V3 since I don't know of any truly portable devices that would support the firewire input (other than laptops, which IMO are a PITA).  So...take away my poor assumption - which seems what you were getting at with your last post - and my stance becomes worthless.

Thanks for the informative discussion, boogie, and apologies for my getting a little cranky along the way.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on May 02, 2005, 04:31:49 PM
ok so say you have a V3 with a firewire out? then what?  you have to bring along you laptop computer or a recorder witha  FW input.  If it's the former then you are lugging out a laptop(+ external battery) instead of the recorder with digital input.  Defeats the purpose if you ask me.  If it's the latter then you still have to transfer to a computer to track out/edit/master your recordings....an intermediate step no?

to me, a firewire solution for the V3 is pointless unless you plan on bringing out a computer of some sort to record instead of a HD recorder.

or did i miss something in this exchange?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 02, 2005, 04:36:28 PM
to me, a firewire solution for the V3 is pointless unless you plan on bringing out a computer of some sort to record instead of a HD recorder.


at the timeframe that Boogie is referring to, laptop was still the only way to get 24 bit recordings...this is back when the V3 initially came out
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 02, 2005, 04:42:58 PM
>>Exciting to see SD built the potential into the device - does the fact that the mere potential exists mean that they've committed to delivering this upgrade strategy? <<

SD hasn't said they'd do it though.  Grace kind of mislead the public by stating they just hadn't decided on which interface yet.  i think that's boogie's only point. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on May 02, 2005, 07:45:51 PM
If anyone wants to borrow my V3>dap1 LMK ;D ;D ;D



can I get a copy of your Saturday night Raleigh?  Soulive in NYC? 

:P

Point taken. Lets not talk about that Soulive show. I've never seen that much tape come out of a deck! But still, my average over the raleigh>cola run was higher than the 722's. The sat second set was all that took a dump on me and still managed to kick an analog V3 to your 722. (so at least the set was not lost)

Oh yeah, I need a copy of that.

no copy for you :P

(http://www.comedyontap.com/features/images/larrythomas/soupnazi.jpg)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Joe w. on May 02, 2005, 07:47:59 PM
oh, i need a copy of the first night  8)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: JasonR on May 02, 2005, 08:14:29 PM
>>Exciting to see SD built the potential into the device - does the fact that the mere potential exists mean that they've committed to delivering this upgrade strategy? <<

SD hasn't said they'd do it though.  Grace kind of mislead the public by stating they just hadn't decided on which interface yet.  i think that's boogie's only point. 

Assuming I'm following the thread correctly, I'm pretty sure that SD has indicated that they intend to add external firewire hard drive support via Firmware upgrade.  From the manual:

Page 8, #23: Medial Ready LEDs:
Indicates storage media is present and available to record; IN (internal hard drive), CF (Compact Flash), EX (external Firewire device) [EX not available in firmware version 1.xx].

Page 8, #24: Media Activity LEDs:
Indicates storage media read/write activity.  IN (internal hard drive), CF (Compact Flash), EX (external Firewire device) [EX not available in firmware version 1.xx.

Page 9, #7: External Media Space Status (space remaining/record ready)
Not available on version 1.xx firmware.  Bar graph indicates amount of record time remaining on the external FireWire volume.  Numbers show time in hours and minutes based on the presently selected number of record tracks, sample frequency, bit rates, and file type.

But maybe you guys were talking about something else.  I can't be expected to read the thread again to figure that out when I've got a new 722 here to play with.  ;)

- Jason
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on May 02, 2005, 10:56:53 PM
I want them to add features that will allow me to track and author DVDAs and write them to an external firewire optical writer, compress and then write flacs and an MD5 file to optical storage, and finally perform downsampling with proper sector boundary adjustments and burn CDRs so I can have them ready for kickdowns at the next show.  That's all I want.  Then it will truely be the perfect all in one box.  The box is capable of supporting those features, they just need to get on it.

Actually it would be nice if the box could write verified copies to an external drive. 
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: JasonR on May 02, 2005, 11:49:07 PM
That's all you want, eh?  I'd be thrilled with a fraction of that, but that's about the perfect wishlist for the sort of taping we do.  As a nice start, it would be nice if the unit could generate MD5sums and save them out to a text file.  At least then the process of copying to desktop could be verified without the additional step of running a checksum on the firewire-connected device.  And it would make developing a neat little applet that copies and compares to the existing checksum a snap.

- Jason
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 03, 2005, 12:04:38 AM
At least for Windows, if you always connect the 722 as the same drive letter, you can write that already. The following pseudocode would work just fine in a BAT file:

md5sum [files on device] > 722.md5
copy [files on device] [local]
md5sum [local files] > local.md5
comp 722.md5 local.md5

Even if you don't connect as the same drive letter, you can pass drive letter in as a command line parameter.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: twoodruff on May 05, 2005, 10:13:34 AM
I dont own one of these, just wanted to say +T to all and comment on how this unit sucks  ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wboswell on May 05, 2005, 10:22:13 AM
I want them to add features that will allow me to track and author DVDAs and write them to an external firewire optical writer, compress and then write flacs and an MD5 file to optical storage, and finally perform downsampling with proper sector boundary adjustments and burn CDRs so I can have them ready for kickdowns at the next show.  That's all I want.  Then it will truely be the perfect all in one box.  The box is capable of supporting those features, they just need to get on it.

Actually it would be nice if the box could write verified copies to an external drive. 

It needs a time warp button before I call it the perfect box.  That way, I could stop taping all these bands that suck.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: twoodruff on May 05, 2005, 10:25:08 AM
I want them to add features that will allow me to track and author DVDAs and write them to an external firewire optical writer, compress and then write flacs and an MD5 file to optical storage, and finally perform downsampling with proper sector boundary adjustments and burn CDRs so I can have them ready for kickdowns at the next show.  That's all I want.  Then it will truely be the perfect all in one box.  The box is capable of supporting those features, they just need to get on it.

Actually it would be nice if the box could write verified copies to an external drive. 

It needs a time warp button before I call it the perfect box.  That way, I could stop taping all these bands that suck.

+T
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 11, 2005, 08:56:58 AM
for all who said it was too big,  i crotched the 722 the last 2 nights...hehe
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 11, 2005, 08:58:34 AM
it's actually on both 2GB marks. both were unclean cuts

odd, I have not had any or heard of glitches happening at the cuts

man, that's a rough tape flip. ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 11, 2005, 09:09:11 AM
it's actually on both 2GB marks. both were unclean cuts

odd, I have not had any or heard of glitches happening at the cuts

man, that's a rough tape flip. ;)

unlike a tape flip, this can be (and was) fixed by a firmware update :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 11, 2005, 09:19:31 AM
it's actually on both 2GB marks. both were unclean cuts

odd, I have not had any or heard of glitches happening at the cuts

man, that's a rough tape flip. ;)

unlike a tape flip, this can be (and was) fixed by a firmware update :P

really, Nick? a firmware update can fix that particular show? amazing!!! ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nic on May 11, 2005, 09:20:08 AM
unlike a tape flip, this can be (and was) fixed by a firmware update :P
really, Nick? a firmware update can fix that particular show? amazing!!! ;)

LOL!!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 11, 2005, 09:22:56 AM
really, Nick? a firmware update can fix that particular show? amazing!!! ;)

no, no, no, as you accurately pointed out Marc, that particular show is lost...kind of like when your dat heads get dirty and you get diginoise, or you have a misload, etc...

jackass :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 11, 2005, 09:35:22 AM
really, Nick? a firmware update can fix that particular show? amazing!!! ;)

no, no, no, as you accurately pointed out Marc, that particular show is lost...kind of like when your dat heads get dirty and you get diginoise, or you have a misload, etc...

jackass :P

never happened. not once.

sorry, there's obviously all kinds of issues with this thing. takes them what, an extra year to get the thing out, and this kind of shit goes on? frankly, the quality issues are par for the course with SD. I had more problems with the mp-2 than every other preamp I've ever run, combined. sketchy power cable connection, not fixed after 3 trips in, broken led meters, busted headphone out, stuck power led, and probably some shit I forget about. So Nick...I don't mean to rub it in on the lost *tape*, but this stuff shouldn't be going on. correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the fr-2 and the nagra went a lot more smoothly. SD has excellent customer service and prompt repairs, but so does Saturn....that doesn't forgive that the product itself has serious issues.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 11, 2005, 09:40:49 AM
well for what it is worth, I never had a problem with the MP2 that I didnt cause (dropped the damn unit once) and their customer service was fantastic.  As for the 722, I have said it before and I will say it again, I have had zero problems with the unit...mainly because I was too lazy for the interim firmware fixes, and the inital firmware worked fine.  A little luck and a little laziness can get you a long way...

As for the knocking of SD should have had this thing perfect before it got out, that is just naive imo.  Working in the technology sector I can tell you that after you have to make one change to the initial firmware load, it takes you several spins to get the load stable again...and that is understood by your initial customers.  That being said, this is different, in that you are paying for the right to fix some bugs...sucks, but understood by most that bought the box early in the cycle

Regardless, I have been using a borrowed box for the past two months, and I got mine yesterday...and cant be happier.  My biggest problem right now is to figure out how the hell I am going to get the files off to free up HD space at ACL this year...guess I will either be buying/installing a bigger HD, or borrowing a firewire capable lappy with a huge HD
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 11, 2005, 09:48:13 AM
never happened. not once.

sorry, there's obviously all kinds of issues with this thing. takes them what, an extra year to get the thing out, and this kind of shit goes on? frankly, the quality issues are par for the course with SD. I had more problems with the mp-2 than every other preamp I've ever run, combined. sketchy power cable connection, not fixed after 3 trips in, broken led meters, busted headphone out, stuck power led, and probably some shit I forget about. So Nick...I don't mean to rub it in on the lost *tape*, but this stuff shouldn't be going on. correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the fr-2 and the nagra went a lot more smoothly. SD has excellent customer service and prompt repairs, but so does Saturn....that doesn't forgive that the product itself has serious issues.

i've been running my 722 since february and only had an issue at a dylan show, where i lost less than a full second of audio.  i don't call that all kinds of issues.  it's less than i had with a laptop and much less than with dat. 

my mp2 is still gonig strong after 5+ years now too...

you want a 722 marc.  face it :)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on May 11, 2005, 10:18:28 AM
for all who said it was too big,  i crotched the 722 the last 2 nights...hehe

Quoted so this wouldn't get lost.

Did you have to crotch it for the entire show?  I wondering about heat.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 11, 2005, 10:57:03 AM
for all who said it was too big, i crotched the 722 the last 2 nights...hehe

Quoted so this wouldn't get lost.

Did you have to crotch it for the entire show? I wondering about heat.


DANGER! See my other thread about heat issues (first stealthing thread or something like that). The 722 needs breathing room. Keeping that near the fellas might make it tougher to become a father later on. Now, if he was recording to CF only, I take that back.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 11, 2005, 11:42:17 AM

Did you have to crotch it for the entire show?  I wondering about heat.

i had it running it george's mountainsmith pack on monday and it got hot, but not HOT
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 11, 2005, 11:43:08 AM
matt
for all who said it was too big, i crotched the 722 the last 2 nights...hehe

Quoted so this wouldn't get lost.

Did you have to crotch it for the entire show? I wondering about heat.


DANGER! See my other thread about heat issues (first stealthing thread or something like that). The 722 needs breathing room. Keeping that near the fellas might make it tougher to become a father later on. Now, if he was recording to CF only, I take that back.

you keep saying CF would be cooler, but remember the ad1k got ridiculously hot and there was no hard drive in there...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Tim on May 11, 2005, 11:48:27 AM
SD has excellent customer service and prompt repairs, but so does Saturn....

quote of the month
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 11, 2005, 12:18:14 PM
you keep saying CF would be cooler, but remember the ad1k got ridiculously hot and there was no hard drive in there...

The only heat I feel originates from directly over the drive. From your pics when you opened it up, it looks like there's nothing else in that area that would generate heat. I have tested a 512 MB CF, but it's not enough time for the unit to really get hot even if it were something else. I need a bigger CF to confirm. I suppose I could record mp3 to CF just to test, but that introduces another variable.

Does anyone in the DC area have a 4 GB CF card that I can borrow for a few days?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 12, 2005, 10:38:36 AM
I'll say this in fairness....from what I've heard so far, the a/d is topnotch in the 722, much nicer than any *deck* I've ever heard. No need to run an outboard. Haven't heard any mics>722 yet.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 12, 2005, 10:41:20 AM
I'll say this in fairness....from what I've heard so far, the a/d is topnotch in the 722, much nicer than any *deck* I've ever heard. No need to run an outboard. Haven't heard any mics>722 yet.

I have a Bridge show on the archive that is 4021>722. It's all I run now.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 12, 2005, 10:54:20 AM
send me your mailing addy marc, I wiill drop a couple of crowes mg200s->722 in the mail to you...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 12, 2005, 10:58:34 AM
I'll say this in fairness....from what I've heard so far, the a/d is topnotch in the 722, much nicer than any *deck* I've ever heard. No need to run an outboard. Haven't heard any mics>722 yet.

I have a Bridge show on the archive that is 4021>722. It's all I run now.

Matt, what setup would you compare 4022>722 to, if you can do it?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 12, 2005, 12:50:04 PM
I could just fluff away and say, "Like nothing else," but I'll try.

The following are all "to my ears":

It's more musical than 402x > ULN-2 (what I used to run)
It's warmer than 402x > V3
It's more detailed than 402x > MMe
It's warmer (but perhaps looser?) in the low end than 402x > V2 > AD2K+

I'd like to put it up against Chris's 4011 > Trak2 and do that comparison. I also wouldn't mind comparing it to Wayne's Diva IV.

The problem with all of these comparisons is that few people run any of the above rigs at 24-bit (save the ULN-2). As we've seen with the AD2K+, there can be a significant difference based on how the dithering back to 16-bit occurs. Since I've been recording 24-bit for nearly three years, I'm pretty confident as to how this sounds vs. the ULN-2. The combo is more forgiving than with the ULN-2, and sounds better on my playback system. I could see how it might be too warm for people who listen on a tube system.

For me, it is the be-all and end-all that I hoped for. I don't think we'll see something that sounds this good, is this well supported, and is this size at this price point for some time. I'm comfortable saying that this will be my rig for years to come.

If I had any quibbles about it, it would be that it's not QUITE the stealther's dream. There will be situations where I can't get the 722 into a venue. The upcoming Sonosax might be, but I'm betting it costs significantly more.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 12, 2005, 01:06:33 PM
If I had any quibbles about it, it would be that it's not QUITE the stealther's dream. There will be situations where I can't get the 722 into a venue.


weak!
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 12, 2005, 01:45:11 PM
Hey, some of us have less available crotch room than others! :P
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on May 12, 2005, 01:49:28 PM
:P

"God's gift to ballroom notoriety
 And I always fill my ballroom
 The event is never small
 All the social papers say I've got the biggest balls of all
 
 I've got big balls
 I've got big balls
 And they're such big balls
 Dirty big balls
 And he's got big balls,
 And she's got big balls,
 But we've got the biggest balls of them all!
 
 And my balls are always bouncing
 My ballroom always full
 And everybody comes and comes again
 If your name is on the guest list
 No one can take you higher
 Everybody says I've got great balls of fire!
 
 I've got big balls
 I've got big balls
 And they're such big balls
 Dirty big balls
 And he's got big balls,
 And she's got big balls,
 But we've got the biggest balls of them all!
 
 Some balls are held for charity
 And some for fancy dress
 But when they're held for pleasure,
 They're the balls that I like best.
 And my balls are always bouncing,
 To the left and to the right.
 It's my belief that my big balls should be held every night.
 
 I've got big balls
 I've got big balls
 And they're such big balls
 Dirty big balls
 And he's got big balls,
 And she's got big balls,
 But we've got the biggest balls of them all!
 
 And I'm just itching to tell you about them
 Oh, we have such wonderful fun
 Seafood cocktail
 Crabs
 Crayfish "
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: JasonR on May 12, 2005, 02:19:22 PM
http://www.danbern.com/fiftyeggslyrics.html#tigerwoods
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 12, 2005, 02:54:50 PM
I could just fluff away and say, "Like nothing else," but I'll try.

The following are all "to my ears":

It's more musical than 402x > ULN-2 (what I used to run)
It's warmer than 402x > V3
It's more detailed than 402x > MMe
It's warmer (but perhaps looser?) in the low end than 402x > V2 > AD2K+

I'd like to put it up against Chris's 4011 > Trak2 and do that comparison. I also wouldn't mind comparing it to Wayne's Diva IV.

The problem with all of these comparisons is that few people run any of the above rigs at 24-bit (save the ULN-2). As we've seen with the AD2K+, there can be a significant difference based on how the dithering back to 16-bit occurs. Since I've been recording 24-bit for nearly three years, I'm pretty confident as to how this sounds vs. the ULN-2. The combo is more forgiving than with the ULN-2, and sounds better on my playback system. I could see how it might be too warm for people who listen on a tube system.

For me, it is the be-all and end-all that I hoped for. I don't think we'll see something that sounds this good, is this well supported, and is this size at this price point for some time. I'm comfortable saying that this will be my rig for years to come.

If I had any quibbles about it, it would be that it's not QUITE the stealther's dream. There will be situations where I can't get the 722 into a venue. The upcoming Sonosax might be, but I'm betting it costs significantly more.

thanks Matt, that's kinda what I hear, even at 16 bit.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on May 12, 2005, 02:59:41 PM
I had no choice but to cross link this post:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=38945.msg539825#msg539825
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wbrisette on May 12, 2005, 03:01:51 PM
I also wouldn't mind comparing it to Wayne's Diva IV.

You'll get your chance when Rick gets his 722. We'll do some real world comparisons of his 722 and the Deva IV, I'm curious how they really compare myself, so we'll get this done.


Wayne
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wbrisette on May 12, 2005, 03:05:19 PM
I had no choice but to cross link this post

The more I see this, the more I'm glad that Zaxcom decided to build their own drive format (it's the same as what they've been using in the Deva II for close to 5 years now without these issues).

Wayne
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: cfox on May 17, 2005, 07:14:56 PM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...





Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 17, 2005, 08:01:45 PM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...







Charles, you need to upgrade your firmware...you got your unit when I did and that batch shipped with the old firmware that had this problem...upgrade and you should be set
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on May 18, 2005, 12:16:57 PM
I agree.  The recording from last week end using the 1.37 firmware had perfect splits.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: dmonterisi on May 18, 2005, 12:18:01 PM
I agree.  The recording from last week end using the 1.37 firmware had perfect splits.

as did my recording with kim's 722 from monday night...
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 20, 2005, 10:11:35 AM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...


holy shit, look what the cat dragged in. ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Zee on May 20, 2005, 10:37:00 AM
Quote
holy shit, look what the cat dragged in.


No shit.. Our property value just went down on this street.  ;)

Charles get that thing up to 1.37 I have not seen any issues yet with this firmware.




Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 20, 2005, 11:32:17 AM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...


holy shit, look what the cat dragged in. ;D


hater.  it's been fixed for 2 weeks now :)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Tim on May 20, 2005, 11:47:23 AM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...


holy shit, look what the cat dragged in. ;D


hater. it's been fixed for 2 weeks now :)

I think he was referring to Charles making an appearance

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Brian on May 20, 2005, 11:50:50 AM
good thing we haven't talked about the new DMB album yet :-X :P

scott's heart might skip a beat

;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: makers marc on May 20, 2005, 12:16:26 PM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...


holy shit, look what the cat dragged in. ;D


hater.  it's been fixed for 2 weeks now :)

just commenting on c. fox stepping in. settle down Scott. ;D
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on May 20, 2005, 01:12:49 PM
good thing we haven't talked about the new DMB album yet :-X :P

scott's heart might skip a beat

;) ;) ;)

nothing to talk about it sucks...3 reasonable songs...rest of it pop drivel
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 20, 2005, 01:46:39 PM
I also have this on my asheville show - I am seeing a problem only at the very end of the file (last second or so - it varies), a tiny loop from earlier.

There is definietly a "tiny loop from earlier" actually less than a second of crowd noise while the track changed...but no media too slow...


holy shit, look what the cat dragged in. ;D


hater. it's been fixed for 2 weeks now :)

I think he was referring to Charles making an appearance



oh duh. i'm a dumbass
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 20, 2005, 01:47:32 PM
good thing we haven't talked about the new DMB album yet :-X :P

scott's heart might skip a beat

;) ;) ;)

i don't like the album
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on May 21, 2005, 10:26:25 AM
Busted Stuff was good. How long ago was that? Of course, since they killed Grey Street live and never play You Never Know or Raven, I guess it's almost as if that album doesn't exist.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: scb on May 21, 2005, 11:11:30 AM
well i don't hate the new album.  it's just not something i put when i want to hear some music.  maybe it'll grow on me

to be honest, i don't even own busted stuff.  i just never got around to buying it :)  but i like what i've heard from it.  they better bring back You Never Know

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on June 09, 2005, 06:46:45 PM
Has anyone had a "media slow" issue with the revision 1.37?  I loaned out my unit and apparently it had this problem the other night with the new firmware.  I didn't see if it has been posted yet, I don't have all the details but it sounds like the same problem again.



damn it.  I guess it's a good thing I'm not at bonnaroo right now since I would have been relying on this thing to get through an entire three days without being unloaded.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: nickgregory on June 09, 2005, 07:28:32 PM
Has anyone had a "media slow" issue with the revision 1.37? I loaned out my unit and apparently it had this problem the other night with the new firmware. I didn't see if it has been posted yet, I don't have all the details but it sounds like the same problem again.



damn it. I guess it's a good thing I'm not at bonnaroo right now since I would have been relying on this thing to get through an entire three days without being unloaded.

I havent had or heard of anyone having this problem with 1.37
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: MattD on June 10, 2005, 09:06:03 AM
Michael, I was there to witness it when it occurred. The HD time remaining indicator was blinking "slow." I'm guessing that the file times reported were real and that the system wasn't just misreporting the files. The only question I had that Jim couldn't answer was if you transferred and deleted chunks on that filesystem from your computer. A good format works wonders sometimes.

The other thing I could think of was that you had a non-stock drive in it. I'm wondering if SD chose their drives because of the heat performance. Perhaps the drive you put in has trouble when it gets very hot. That's just a reaching guess, but all I could come up with. When Jim had me look at it, the thing was pretty hot to the touch - almost as hot as it got when I first stealthed with it.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Dr.FOB on June 10, 2005, 09:38:44 AM
TLG 6/7/05 TLM170 split sub>722 Attempt

Two sets of ~50min each had been recorded when I attempted to playback the second set.  The 722 showed valid file sizes for each of the two tracks but twice locked up the keys when playback was attempted.  Query after reboot continued to show the details of the previously captured files.  The media slow error was reported after/during the third hour of capture.  I was not monitoring closely and didn't notice presence/absence of the little red recording light so I don't know when the error occured.  Three files *7a,b,&c were indicated. Subsequently none of the previously captured file details were available.  It seems that not only was the file in process affected, but the prior files as well.  I will return the unit tonight to find if anything is salvageable.

One request of SD.  If in record mode an error occurs that stops recording, stop the dancing lights, or give some other clear indication that recording has stopped.

Managed to set up the Traveller>HP in less than 15min to get all but the opening notes of the second set :)
Looking forward to a comp with the split TL omnis.
Jim
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on June 11, 2005, 09:19:44 AM
Michael, I was there to witness it when it occurred. The HD time remaining indicator was blinking "slow." I'm guessing that the file times reported were real and that the system wasn't just misreporting the files. The only question I had that Jim couldn't answer was if you transferred and deleted chunks on that filesystem from your computer. A good format works wonders sometimes.

The other thing I could think of was that you had a non-stock drive in it. I'm wondering if SD chose their drives because of the heat performance. Perhaps the drive you put in has trouble when it gets very hot. That's just a reaching guess, but all I could come up with. When Jim had me look at it, the thing was pretty hot to the touch - almost as hot as it got when I first stealthed with it.

Matt, I had a few shows on that drive since the last reformat, but everything I've recorded is still on there, so there was a contiguous span of files on the device.  Maybe it is the drive. I'm not happy with the power consumption of the unit as it is, I'm getting 5:15 from a 6000mAh battery and I think I should get better performance.  I guess I'll start shopping for a new drive.  But I really feel like I need 80G for festivals.

I have to wonder if SD is preallocating a maximum size file prior to starting the track.  It seems like maybe they are not and instead trying to write FAT updates each time they store a new cluster.  Otherwise I can't understand why the 4200rpm HD wouldn't keepup at these rate.  I've tried asking that question but they ignore it.

It may be a heat issue with that heat drive.  Jim, were you running the 722 in the portabrace?  The unit did get really hot when I was stealthing it and I was fairly uncomfortable with it resting on my belly.

Can someone open their unit and tell me the stock HD model number?  I want to get a spec sheet and see where my drive's specs differ with respect to access speed and power dissipation.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Dr.FOB on June 11, 2005, 05:19:55 PM
It may be a heat issue with that heat drive.  Jim, were you running the 722 in the portabrace?  The unit did get really hot when

Yes, it was in the portabrace.  Sitting up on a roll of gaffers so I could read it, but still enclosed, with the plastic cover down.
Maybe it's the heat during writing causing errors.  Why should that affect the previously stored files though?
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on June 11, 2005, 06:05:12 PM
Did it affect the previously stored files?  Could you not access what was already on there?

In any case, if there are filesystem errors, it's due to poorly written or poorly tested firmware and not due to heat.  I need to look into heat related drive failure modes for work anyway so maybe that is a project for next week.  I'm pretty sure heat causes the motor or bearings to fail.  Data already on the platter should still be there.

Sorry I keep missing your calls.  I had the phone with me but the ringer off. 

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on June 12, 2005, 09:19:37 AM
Here's a brief update:

The filesystem is not having any issues at all.  The drive mounted via FW on my machine with no problems.  I was able to copy the files without issue.  Chkdsk and the internal repair utility report 0 file errors. 

The unit locks up when it tries to play the last good file but does play the previous recordings without problems.  The unit gets into a state where powering down causes the machine to lock up.

I'm going to attempt a new recording without trying anything.

edit:  I tried a recording and it stopped recording and displayed the "slow" message within about 5 minutes.  I restarted the recording and it's run for about 4 hours now without stopping.  I've got 40G of remaining space so I'm going to run it all night and see what happens.

BTW, Jim, when the recording stops for any reason, "slow" indication included, the red record LED is extinguished.  the LED may remain on if the unit locks up, but this afternoon I confirmed what I expected when it stopped.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: wbrisette on June 13, 2005, 06:51:20 AM
The other thing I could think of was that you had a non-stock drive in it. I'm wondering if SD chose their drives because of the heat performance. Perhaps the drive you put in has trouble when it gets very hot.

SD is using Samsung Hard drives from what I can tell (reports here on this board). While Samsung is not currently considered the industry leader in the hard drive category, they also aren't slouches. I'm currently using 3 Hitachi travelstars and 1 Samsung hard drive with my Deva and while Zaxcom really only recommends the Travelstar at this point, I haven't seen any problems with the Samsung 80 GB drive. I doubt this issue is hard drive related.

Wayne
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on June 13, 2005, 08:34:56 AM
The other thing I could think of was that you had a non-stock drive in it. I'm wondering if SD chose their drives because of the heat performance. Perhaps the drive you put in has trouble when it gets very hot.

SD is using Samsung Hard drives from what I can tell (reports here on this board). While Samsung is not currently considered the industry leader in the hard drive category, they also aren't slouches. I'm currently using 3 Hitachi travelstars and 1 Samsung hard drive with my Deva and while Zaxcom really only recommends the Travelstar at this point, I haven't seen any problems with the Samsung 80 GB drive. I doubt this issue is hard drive related.

Wayne

I ordered a RAW unit without a harddrive.  My unit now has a fujistu 4200rpm drive.  It's looking more like a heat issue and I don't know if the HD is the problem or the 722.  I've run the recording function for 19 hours now uninterrupted without problems.  But I'm running at room ambient temperature, not in a bag in the field.  The travelstars were recommended to me this weekend.  I may have to try one of those.   I think I'm going to  throw this in the protabrace and see if I can get it to fail when it gets hot.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: Lil Kim Jong-Il on June 13, 2005, 03:21:02 PM
Here is the conclusion. 

I ran the thing all night without error so I put it in the portabrace to get it hot.   When I returned from lunch, the recorder was still running (red lamp illuminated, counter rising, and files being split) but it was hot as hell.  I stopped the recording when there was 1G remaining capacity.  The system would not play the recording and locked up.  It appears that the harddrive got hot enough and shut itself down - I could not detect the motor running when I put my ear to the 722.  After it cooled and the drive operation was restored, the recorded files at the end of the session do not play and cause the 722 to lock up.

The files that were recorded previously and without incident are all playable and the 722 operates correctly.

I need to research if these drives automagically shutdown when heat becomes extreme.  Does anyone know? 

Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: smokenburn on October 23, 2016, 03:33:57 PM
bump.

I'm getting this issue at random with a 744T.  Last night I missed half the first set due to this "slow" error.  What is the fix?  I don't see why Sound Devices still sell products that are considered 'industry standard' when they have firewire, flash cards, and disk write issues.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: kingkita on October 23, 2016, 04:18:29 PM
Means your hard drive is taking a shit or your cf card is messing up,reformat both and record onto both so you have a backup and don't lose anything even if the hard drive dies you still have it on the cf card if you record onto both.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: smokenburn on October 23, 2016, 08:03:14 PM
Means your hard drive is taking a shit or your cf card is messing up,reformat both and record onto both so you have a backup and don't lose anything even if the hard drive dies you still have it on the cf card if you record onto both.

Thanks.  I'll try reformatting the HD.
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: gmm6797 on May 16, 2017, 07:59:27 PM
I recently formatted both the hard drive and the compact flash card. Here at a show and I just looked down and both were flashing slow and the recording was completely stopped.
Any other suggestions other than the reformatting of both?
Thanks
Title: Re: 744/722 "Media too slow" Message
Post by: gmm6797 on May 17, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
Anyone?