Topic: Stereo paired condensor microphones

[hemiolacadence]

Hey,
I was hoping someone could explain how to pair two stereo condenser microphones.

These will be used to record classical guitar for an audition, although it would be cool to tape some shows (though I might plug into the guys with schoeps).

I have a large diaphragm condenser that will probably be used farther away from the guitar in a smaller room, though I will certainly experiment.

On top of the pairings can anyone explain recommend a good book to recognize microphone frequencies and the subtle differences in directions (i.e. cardiod and hypercardiod)?

My ultimate goal is to do entertainment law, and I hope to finish a music performance curriculum while perfecting different techniques inherent to recording different styles/instruments. I have two years left so I think if I do what you all tell me I will go into there and be able to hold a conversation with the people who are in different departments.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to teach me.

[DSatz]

Umm--I think there might be a misunderstanding here. Normally you can't trim or adjust one microphone so as to match another one; that's not what this is about. If you have several microphones of the same make and model, then with some effort, you could experiment to find which two are the best-matched pair among them. But most often, when people talk about matched pairs of microphones for stereo recording, they're talking about microphones that were specially selected as pairs by the manufacturer, nearly always prior to purchase. Thus pair matching isn't usually something that the user does--usually it's something that the user buys (or doesn't).

Some people prefer to use such matched pairs when making stereo recordings with two microphones, or with two main microphones plus whatever number of spot or support microphones. In condenser microphones, the capsules are nearly always the part with the greater variation. They convert sound waves into variations in an electrical voltage, and since they have one foot in each of two worlds, so to speak, their task is more difficult and more delicate than the purely electronic part of the microphone. By contrast, even a second- or third-tier manufacturer can build circuitry (or have it built for them) that is highly consistent from sample to sample. But very few manufacturers can make microphone capsules with similar consistency. Even for those manufacturers, the tolerance limits for their capsules are greater as a rule than the tolerance limits for the purely electronic part of their microphones. Variations of 1/10,000 of an inch can influence a capsule's performance significantly, and our ears/brains are more sensitive to left vs. right discrepancies than to microphone characteristics that affect both ears the same.

So for stereo recording--especially with closely-spaced or coincident pairs--the more similar the two microphones are, the better. But there's no standard definition for pair matching. The two microphones in a "matched pair" from manufacturer B could well have more difference between them than a randomly chosen pair from manufacturer A. In addition, age and use can cause the microphones in a pair to diverge from one another; very few old microphones sound and measure the same now as they did when they were new.

--best regards

[hemiolacadence]

Thank you

Since I have a stereo pair when is it appropriate to use one mic and when is it appropriate to use the pair (obviously not cymbals) i'm just talking acoustic guitars and other instruments or sounds these mics would capture.

I used to plug a stereo LTO mictube line out 1/8th inch into a computer mic input mono I think I always lost one mic and all so this is kind of new for me.

edit: I think I answered my own question correct me if I am wrong. It's not necessarily appropriate or right it just is a different sound and something I should learn to recognize.

[bombdiggity]

Your question is not entirely clear but assuming these are two single point (mono) microphones (not dual element stereo in a single housing): 

Generally speaking if you're making an ambient recording of multiple instruments/sources (or even a single instrument) you'd want to use a like pair of mics in a suitable configuration to capture all the sound sources.  You'll get stereo imaging from the pair.  You can do the same thing with a single mic and get a mono recording but with the standard for playback being stereo mono doesn't make much sense if you have the ability to record in stereo.  There is really no apparent reason to use a single mic (mono) for recording any sort of music other than a single mic being all you have. 

When using a pair of mics in nearly all cases I can think of you would want the two mics to be the same.  It probably doesn't make much sense to use two different mics, though perhaps if you place them differently and want to mix the signals together there might be some desire to experiment, but that would be trial and error with a very unconventional technique that would be extremely specific to the types of music, the mics and the recording environment as well as one's ability to mix the results in post-processing.   I don't think there is any general vague advice anyone can give in that regard. 

Using several single mics might be advisable if you want to spot mic individual components and mix the result (this is typically employed in multi-tracking rather than with a pair).  So perhaps if you have guitar and vocal and can get enough separation in the set up to record each relatively independently you could devote a mic to spotting each.  Or if you have two or more players and you don't think the natural balance will be good you could direct a mic at each and mix the results together.  Generally the natural balance between guitar/vocal or two players is solid enough you would not need to take these sorts of more complex approaches with those sorts of setups though.  Mixing requires a skill set and software that may be a whole new realm of challenges if you have these questions at the micing stage. 

[chinariderstl]

Well, I would start here:

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Mic-University/StereoTechniques.aspx

This will help too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique

Also, if you head to the Live Music Archive, at the URL below, look for the Source and Lineage of a given show.  That should, in theory, provide you with the gear that was used to record a given show, and how it was, ultimately, made available online.  You can then start Googling around for the gear listed in the Lineage.  You will quickly learn what is what and what is needed to make a decent recording.

https://archive.org/details/etree

Also, take a gander at the Rig Pics section and the Pro Audio section at B&H Photo and Video.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=20.0

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/browse/Professional-Audio/ci/12154/N/4294550705

[hemiolacadence]

Your question is not entirely clear but assuming these are two single point (mono) microphones (not dual element stereo in a single housing): 

Generally speaking if you're making an ambient recording of multiple instruments/sources (or even a single instrument) you'd want to use a like pair of mics in a suitable configuration to capture all the sound sources.  You'll get stereo imaging from the pair.  You can do the same thing with a single mic and get a mono recording but with the standard for playback being stereo mono doesn't make much sense if you have the ability to record in stereo.  There is really no apparent reason to use a single mic (mono) for recording any sort of music other than a single mic being all you have. 

When using a pair of mics in nearly all cases I can think of you would want the two mics to be the same.  It probably doesn't make much sense to use two different mics, though perhaps if you place them differently and want to mix the signals together there might be some desire to experiment, but that would be trial and error with a very unconventional technique that would be extremely specific to the types of music, the mics and the recording environment as well as one's ability to mix the results in post-processing.   I don't think there is any general vague advice anyone can give in that regard. 

Using several single mics might be advisable if you want to spot mic individual components and mix the result (this is typically employed in multi-tracking rather than with a pair).  So perhaps if you have guitar and vocal and can get enough separation in the set up to record each relatively independently you could devote a mic to spotting each.  Or if you have two or more players and you don't think the natural balance will be good you could direct a mic at each and mix the results together.  Generally the natural balance between guitar/vocal or two players is solid enough you would not need to take these sorts of more complex approaches with those sorts of setups though.  Mixing requires a skill set and software that may be a whole new realm of challenges if you have these questions at the micing stage.

This put it in perspective as in I don't need the third AKG. The mixing what I've done when I recorded my uncle at my brother's wedding was pan the condensers left and right but I would keep his vocals centered which was done with a dynamic mic.

Obviously I know I need to read more but you've kind of answered my question as far as the large diaphragm mic and what I need to do with classical.

Fortunately for me I haven't played in a while so I have time to get better.

chinariderstl thanks for the reading.