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Author Topic: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig  (Read 7885 times)

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Offline TaperBryan

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Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« on: July 24, 2011, 10:11:05 PM »
Ok, so I'm adding my PSP2 back in my rig.  I've neglected it for too long here lately.  Wondering what some of you may suggest.

Wondering the best way to bring it back in...honestly, it's been so long since I ran it, I forgot how i tied it in w/ the v3.  essentially i want to use the psp2 for my pre and the v3 for the a/d.  that said, should i run it as follows:

akgs>mic in on psp2>line out on psp2 w/ interconnects>analog in on v3?  I can't remember if I used to use the AES digital out or the analog out on the v3 to run into my recorder.  pretty sure the last time i ran the psp2 i was running a jb3.  I'm now running iRiver H120.  I also have a Tascam DR-07 I'm borrowing from a friend and fellow taper. 

I've been running the following set up:
akg > v3 (coax out) > odl-276 (coax in>optical out) >iRiver

Thoughts/suggestions on the best set up to bring the psp2 back in are welcome.

TIA

12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

Offline H₂O

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 10:19:05 PM »
You can't disable the Pre in the V3 but you can enable the -20db jumpers on the inside to lower the levels to the point where the Pre on the V3 is not "amplifying" the signal.
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 10:25:46 PM »
mics>psp2>line-in on dr07 :) the adc of these handheld recorders are WAY BETTER than the decks of past time like the DAT/JB3. Trust me, just run mics>psp2>dr07 ;) And RUN 24-BIT DAMNIT BRYAN ;D 8)
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Offline TaperBryan

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 10:34:44 PM »
Quote
You can't disable the Pre in the V3 but you can enable the -20db jumpers on the inside to lower the levels to the point where the Pre on the V3 is not "amplifying" the signal.

i've never opened up the v3 to see the guts...would be curious, though, to see inside.  just not sure i'd want to go this route.  i'd hate to mess something up on the guts...haha

Quote
ics>psp2>dr07
this would DEF be a much lighter rig!!
12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 10:56:13 PM »
Sell the psp2 in the ys. I need another.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 10:57:42 PM »
Quote
You can't disable the Pre in the V3 but you can enable the -20db jumpers on the inside to lower the levels to the point where the Pre on the V3 is not "amplifying" the signal.

i've never opened up the v3 to see the guts...would be curious, though, to see inside.  just not sure i'd want to go this route.  i'd hate to mess something up on the guts...haha

Quote
ics>psp2>dr07
this would DEF be a much lighter rig!!

It is. My new mk41>Lemosax>M10 setup is SUPER LIGHT bro :)

And hi/lo, youre getting obsessive :P ;D 8)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 11:05:14 PM »
mics>psp2>line-in on dr07

this would DEF be a much lighter rig!!

what's the max out on the psp2? Isn't it something monstrous like +28dbu? The DR-07's max line-in is only around +8dbu, so if the psp2 is expecting to send a ton of signal downstream, you may/will brickwall the recorder. I remember looking at grayp's rig at charlottesville when we met (he was using your psp2, right? it was someone else's) and his second set peaked around -4db or so but the gain on the 722 was turned all the way down (so it was peaking around +20dbu or so out of the psp2). I don't know how the gain structure on the psp2 works, so maybe you can turn it down there (I didn't see anything when I saw it in cville), but I suspect you'll have to do something more then just hooking everything up.

"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 11:11:57 PM »
good points page
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 11:22:11 PM »
I mean, if there is a way to turn down the psp2, great, that would work (it didn't have much in options when I last saw one). Otherwise to get that graceful transformer overload sound, you would then have to put attenuators between the psp2 and the DR-07, say to the order of 15 or 20db. One of those selectable ones would be nice as long as it doesn't introduce a hum or other noise (I've had some that did, and some that didn't).

Beats lugging a V3 and converter box for the iriver in my opinion, but I don't need/like taping to be part of my exercise regimen, ymmv...
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline tedyun

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2011, 12:14:03 AM »
It's a very strange gain structure. There is what I understand to be an "input gain" labeled "Mic Sensitivity" and it has "-35, -55 and -70" positions, in order of least to most gain. But I have no idea how much gain it adds. Then there is output gain, which is 0, +6 or +12.

They recommend setting the gain so that you're not overloading, then do a fine adjustment with the recorder, or in TaperBryan's case, the V3.

I was actually thinking of doing the same thing (ie., PSP-2 > V3)


mics>psp2>line-in on dr07

this would DEF be a much lighter rig!!

what's the max out on the psp2? Isn't it something monstrous like +28dbu? The DR-07's max line-in is only around +8dbu, so if the psp2 is expecting to send a ton of signal downstream, you may/will brickwall the recorder. I remember looking at grayp's rig at charlottesville when we met (he was using your psp2, right? it was someone else's) and his second set peaked around -4db or so but the gain on the 722 was turned all the way down (so it was peaking around +20dbu or so out of the psp2). I don't know how the gain structure on the psp2 works, so maybe you can turn it down there (I didn't see anything when I saw it in cville), but I suspect you'll have to do something more then just hooking everything up.
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2011, 12:30:04 AM »
I ran m148>v3 a few times on Phish tour in 2004
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2011, 12:44:13 AM »
But I have no idea how much gain it adds.

Minimum gain is roughly +20db, I think. FreeLunch could say for certain.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2011, 12:54:39 AM »
It's a very strange gain structure. There is what I understand to be an "input gain" labeled "Mic Sensitivity" and it has "-35, -55 and -70" positions, in order of least to most gain. But I have no idea how much gain it adds. Then there is output gain, which is 0, +6 or +12.

Hmm, well, the AKGs are somewhere in the zone of 30-35 mv/pa (so, -28, maybe -31) IIRC. Assuming that at loud shows your hitting +1dbu exiting the mic (based on max spl, mv/pa, the handy sengpiel chart, and personal experience with mics that hot), then yeah...

Bring the attenuators if you're using the DR-07 gets my vote. It's just how much to attenuate.

But I have no idea how much gain it adds.

Minimum gain is roughly +20db, I think. FreeLunch could say for certain.

That rings a bell for some reason.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2011, 07:13:00 PM »
I would get switchable attenuators. Or at least -20db fixed ones :)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2011, 07:27:40 PM »
I would get switchable attenuators. Or at least -20db fixed ones :)

agreed
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline TaperBryan

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2011, 10:49:52 PM »
may have to look into those for future shows....not sure they'd be here before Fri.  I may just either run my normal rig w/out the psp2 until I can get attenuators (which kind do you guys suggest on those?) or run akg>psp2>dr-07 or akg>psp2>v3>dr-07/iRiver and just set the psp2 to -35 db for the mic sensitivity 0 gain and adjust levels on the v3.  If I recall...that seemed to work in the past.  Will try doing some trial level checks this week w/ all the mentioned set ups. I would imagine if if I run mics>mic in on psp2>line out on psp2>analog in on v3>analog out on v3>iRiver or dr-07 that would be ok.  Or might it be better to run AES out on the v3 to the recorder?  either way should give me a balanced signal running out, right?

Page: yes, that was my psp2 Gray was running in Charlottesville.  He's ran it more than I have lately. 

Hi and Lo:  LOL about me selling it to you.  I can't seem to want to get rid of it.  I know I haven't gotten my $$ out of it lately.  But, it's just one of those rare pieces of gear that so few ppl have that makes be glad I have it....I know that's lame....



12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

Offline TaperBryan

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 11:49:13 PM »
so, the rig is repacked and psp2 is in the mix.  I currently have it in the following order:
A.) akg>mic in on psp2>line out via interconnects>analog in on v3>analog out>dr-07 (line in)

Or should I reverse this and run:
B.) akg>analog in on v3>analog out>mic in on psp2>line out on psp2>dr-07 (line in)

the settings on the psp2 are mic in, phantom at 24/48, mic sensitivity at -35 db, gain set at 0 db.  but, i'm not sure what the switches beside the gain are/do that have the 80, 120, off settings  ???.  therefore, i'm not sure what to set them at.  (credit to cfox for the use of the pic below)






12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 11:54:11 PM »
Def use the v3 for the adc>DR05 ;)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 12:01:12 AM »
I am so confused... why are you running the PSP-2 and the V3 if you are not using the V3 strictly for it's A/D functionality?

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2011, 12:05:18 AM »
I am so confused... why are you running the PSP-2 and the V3 if you are not using the V3 strictly for it's A/D functionality?


Because he doesnt have the attenuators to run mics>psp2>dr05. The DR05 will overload unless he has -20db attenuators :)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2011, 12:26:13 AM »
I am so confused... why are you running the PSP-2 and the V3 if you are not using the V3 strictly for it's A/D functionality?


Because he doesnt have the attenuators to run mics>psp2>dr05. The DR05 will overload unless he has -20db attenuators :)

DR-05? He's using a DR-07 and looking at both options A and B, they are both Analog out from the V3 to the DR-07. That's going to brickwall MORE than just using the psp-2.

Until attenuators are obtained, it seems to me like the Tascam handheld should be completely out of the picture.


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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 12:31:32 AM »
I am so confused... why are you running the PSP-2 and the V3 if you are not using the V3 strictly for it's A/D functionality?


Because he doesnt have the attenuators to run mics>psp2>dr05. The DR05 will overload unless he has -20db attenuators :)

Until attenuators are obtained, it seems to me like the Tascam handheld should be completely out of the picture.



Agreed :)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2011, 01:46:28 AM »
Until attenuators are obtained, it seems to me like the Tascam handheld should be completely out of the picture.



Agreed :)

Concur.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 08:32:08 AM »
The PSP-2 has an unbalanced minijack out, does it not?  That would be output at -10 so it would likely fix the problem (and eliminate the V3)
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2011, 08:51:13 AM »
All this recent psp2 talk has me wanting to run mine, at a show that is coming up Soon.  But I'm in a somewhat similar situation with overload concerns - running into an r09.  And this is an unfamiliar venue, where I don't know what the levels will be, and checking is not advised.

This combo has gotten me into trouble with levels in the past.   It's a pretty awful feeling once the show has started, then realizing you're in a world of hurt on levels!  And you left other pre-amps, that would not have caused a problem, at home.

It's true - the best sounding pre-amp is the one that does not overload your recorder :P

The m10 can take a hotter signal... It would be really useful if some m10 owners could explore what happens to the m10 recording quality when the "gain" is turned down to the lowest settings, and it is fed a very hot signal.

The psp2 should be able to be run with quiet sources without attenuators..   Though I do wonder how much the sound character suffers if you don't drive the input transformers with sufficient gusto (is "gusto" from french? I think so).

I've always thought the min gain of the pre was closer to 25 db, not 20.   But I never measured it.  The mic input sensitivity function, and exactly what it does, has always been a bit of a mystery.

I got my psp2 right around the time I sold my 722.  And I immediately missed the pro-level input capability of the 7xx . Losing it impacted my ability and desire to run the psp2, especially after initial problems with the hot output.

I've always been averse to attenuators, though I do have a -20 (I think I'd prefer a -5, and a -10).  I'm averse to that -20 because it isn't impedance matched to this gear, and I always felt non-attenuated preamps would sound better.  Nevermind that many recorders have internal attenuators that we don't specifically know about.

The minijack output on the psp2 is hot.. I don't think there is any way it could be -10.  But I'll try and check if I get it cabled right.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2011, 10:09:12 AM »
It's true - the best sounding pre-amp is the one that does not overload your recorder :P

at the end of the day, this is king.

The m10 can take a hotter signal... It would be really useful if some m10 owners could explore what happens to the m10 recording quality when the "gain" is turned down to the lowest settings, and it is fed a very hot signal.

In an environment where you can adjust levels in 1-3db increments, it makes sense to try and optimize the M10's character. In this example behind a psp2 where you don't have that sort of control, I think it's the lesser of multiple evils (assuming overloading is one of those evils). Doesn't answer your question per se, but it induces apathy (in my mind at any rate).

The psp2 should be able to be run with quiet sources without attenuators..   Though I do wonder how much the sound character suffers if you don't drive the input transformers with sufficient gusto (is "gusto" from french? I think so).

I would assume as so. If part of the signature from a sonosax comes from transistor overload by getting above the nominal (either 0dbu or +8dbu) and staying under +20 where it hits the wall, then you try and drive it accordingly.

I've always been averse to attenuators, though I do have a -20 (I think I'd prefer a -5, and a -10).  I'm averse to that -20 because it isn't impedance matched to this gear, and I always felt non-attenuated preamps would sound better.  Nevermind that many recorders have internal attenuators that we don't specifically know about.

I've been hit and miss, some attenuators I've had great results with, others have caused load problems. Never looked into how the tell the difference before purchase...

The minijack output on the psp2 is hot.. I don't think there is any way it could be -10.  But I'll try and check if I get it cabled right.

On the psp3, it's a headphone out, right? Whereas on the psp2 it's a line level out of some sort, I just don't know the level. I would also assume it's -10 but I've seen squirly stuff before.

Does the psp2 have output transformers as well or just input? If yes, does the minijack out get routed through those first or no?
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Offline fobstl

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2011, 10:37:15 AM »
but, i'm not sure what the switches beside the gain are/do that have the 80, 120, off settings  ???.  therefore, i'm not sure what to set them at. 

These are for the low cut filter. I always leave them at off and fix any low end issues in post.

Offline fobstl

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2011, 10:54:02 AM »
The m10 can take a hotter signal... It would be really useful if some m10 owners could explore what happens to the m10 recording quality when the "gain" is turned down to the lowest settings, and it is fed a very hot signal.

I ran DPA 4021 > PSP2 > M10 (via mini out of EAA to mini in on M10 with gain output on EAA set to 0) at a loud stadium show 2 weeks ago and the gain on the M10 was all the way down to 2 on the recorder - no overload on the recording. I was surprised that the M10 could take such a hot signal.

As to the discussion on the output of the mini out vs the XLR - I believe the both follow the "Gain Output" pots on the EAA. So the output is selectable between +12, +6 and 0. From my experience it seems that both the XLR and mini output the same based on the above selection. I always run the gain output at 0 for rock shows. This seems to work well > 722, DR680, M10, DAT equipment, etc.

FYI, here is a copy of the PSP2 manual that was conveniently posted by the TS mods:
http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Manual_EAAPSP2.pdf

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2011, 11:24:46 AM »
thanks, everybody, for the input/suggestions, etc. 

Last night when I was testing level settings, etc.  I had the mics xy about 2' from my tv and turned the volume up pretty loudly to check levels.  I was surprised at how the levels didn't overload w/ this set up: akg>mic in on psp2>line out via interconnects>analog in on v3>analog out>dr-07 (line in).  the settings on the psp2 are mic in, phantom at 24/48, mic sensitivity at -35 db, gain set at 0 db.  I did adjust the record level on the dr-07 and currently have it set at around 6.  I normally don't take headphones to shows as I've always been comfy just eyeing the levels when running the v3 to know when I have them dialed in.  But, since I haven't ran the psp2>v3 in quite some time, I plan on taking headphones so I can monitor the levels on the dr-07 and adjust accordingly.  I think if I leave the psp2 settings as mentioned above and set the v3 to a gain of 10 (pretty sure that's the lowest setting on the v3), my frequency select at 48kHz (i plan to run 24/48 on the dr-07) and use the trim accordingly, i think i should be fine.

Of course, all this goes out the window if it thunder storms on Fri like they are calling for.  The venue I'll be at is open air and no shed/roof.  I plan to rainproof the gear.  but, if it's a down pour like earlier this week...it'll stay in the car.  speaking of rain proofing the gear, I thought about getting some heavy duty zip lock bags to put the psp2/v3 in and cutting a little hole on the side of the bag to run my cables through.  I wonder how this would work? Obviously, i have many trash bags to sit my gear bag.  but, i was wanting to be a little extra cautious.



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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2011, 11:46:10 AM »
I think you need to test going out of the minijack directly into the deck. 

I do not understand at all why you want to even bother with the V3.  It's doing nothing in this scenario except adding a second gain stage you have to run through.
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2011, 11:50:15 AM »
All this recent psp2 talk has me wanting to run mine, at a show that is coming up Soon.  But I'm in a somewhat similar situation with overload concerns - running into an r09.  And this is an unfamiliar venue, where I don't know what the levels will be, and checking is not advised.

This combo has gotten me into trouble with levels in the past.   It's a pretty awful feeling once the show has started, then realizing you're in a world of hurt on levels!  And you left other pre-amps, that would not have caused a problem, at home.

It's true - the best sounding pre-amp is the one that does not overload your recorder :P

The m10 can take a hotter signal... It would be really useful if some m10 owners could explore what happens to the m10 recording quality when the "gain" is turned down to the lowest settings, and it is fed a very hot signal.

The psp2 should be able to be run with quiet sources without attenuators..   Though I do wonder how much the sound character suffers if you don't drive the input transformers with sufficient gusto (is "gusto" from french? I think so).

I've always thought the min gain of the pre was closer to 25 db, not 20.   But I never measured it.  The mic input sensitivity function, and exactly what it does, has always been a bit of a mystery.

I got my psp2 right around the time I sold my 722.  And I immediately missed the pro-level input capability of the 7xx . Losing it impacted my ability and desire to run the psp2, especially after initial problems with the hot output.

I've always been averse to attenuators, though I do have a -20 (I think I'd prefer a -5, and a -10).  I'm averse to that -20 because it isn't impedance matched to this gear, and I always felt non-attenuated preamps would sound better.  Nevermind that many recorders have internal attenuators that we don't specifically know about.

The minijack output on the psp2 is hot.. I don't think there is any way it could be -10.  But I'll try and check if I get it cabled right.

I've used PSP-2 M10 many times in loud situations. Have no fear as the M10 can take whatever signal you feed it. Even if you have to run at 2-3, it won't overload. In terms of how hot a singal the M10 can take, I don't think there is any difference between it and the 722 or any other professional recorder. It's without question the best handheld recorder available that's not a Sonosax MiniR82 or similar.

I agree with you that the minijack output on the psp2 is hot. I'm all but certain it shares the same signal path as the XLR outs; it's not going to be -10dB.

Running with attenuators is just a waste. They should only be used on a hot soundboard feed and only when there is no alternative.

TaperBryan - I still don't understand why you are using the V3 if you're not using it strictly for the A/D? Do you think it's adding anything? The PSP-2 sounds better in terms of it's preamp stage, imo. The V3 is known to have some built-in roll-off.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2011, 11:50:52 AM »
I do not understand at all why you want to even bother with the V3.  It's doing nothing in this scenario except adding a second gain stage you have to run through.

Exactly!

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2011, 12:00:08 PM »
I do not understand at all why you want to even bother with the V3.  It's doing nothing in this scenario except adding a second gain stage you have to run through.
I was thinking the same thing. If you are not using the V3 as an A > D it would probably be best to use either the EAA or the V3 as the pre but not both.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2011, 12:04:00 PM »
Running with attenuators is just a waste. They should only be used on a hot soundboard feed and only when there is no alternative.

The M10 can handle a signal upwards of +20dbu, the DR-07 which he's talking about using maxes out at around +8.

If he baught an M10, this would all be moot, but so far I havn't seen that mentioned as an option, just something the rest of us have batted around.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2011, 12:09:03 PM »
The mini-jack is hot. I also agree that it is probably at the same level as the XLR outs. When I ran this for the Mastersounds, I had the XLR outs going into the Mytek, and that went into the PMD661. The levels were peaking between -12 and -6. Using the minijack, I ran this through an SVU-2, then to my MR-1, and the levels were over 0. Luckily, the MR-1 can attenuate the signal very far.

I can see the logic of going to the V3 as a second stage. The PSP-2 can increase the gain by steps of +6 dB. In the PSP-2 manual, they essentially recommend using a second stage preamp when they state that fine level adjustment should be done on the recorder. What TaperBryan is proposing is to do that fine level adjustment on the V3 instead.

For example at the Mastersounds recording, I really wanted to push that +6 dB to get the gain in the -6 to 0 range, but if it went slightly over, I wouldn't have a way to adjust it down. I ended up staying where I was and fixing the gain in post. I ended up adding about +4 dB in post, so I believe if I had engaged the +6 dB switch, I would have been over.

The V3 is supposed to be ultra transparent. I really like the sound, but I know others don't care for it (TNJazz, I'm looking at you...) I'm planning on trying this config on Mon, and hopefully I'll have a comp. if all goes well.


All this recent psp2 talk has me wanting to run mine, at a show that is coming up Soon.  But I'm in a somewhat similar situation with overload concerns - running into an r09.  And this is an unfamiliar venue, where I don't know what the levels will be, and checking is not advised.

This combo has gotten me into trouble with levels in the past.   It's a pretty awful feeling once the show has started, then realizing you're in a world of hurt on levels!  And you left other pre-amps, that would not have caused a problem, at home.

It's true - the best sounding pre-amp is the one that does not overload your recorder :P

The m10 can take a hotter signal... It would be really useful if some m10 owners could explore what happens to the m10 recording quality when the "gain" is turned down to the lowest settings, and it is fed a very hot signal.

The psp2 should be able to be run with quiet sources without attenuators..   Though I do wonder how much the sound character suffers if you don't drive the input transformers with sufficient gusto (is "gusto" from french? I think so).

I've always thought the min gain of the pre was closer to 25 db, not 20.   But I never measured it.  The mic input sensitivity function, and exactly what it does, has always been a bit of a mystery.

I got my psp2 right around the time I sold my 722.  And I immediately missed the pro-level input capability of the 7xx . Losing it impacted my ability and desire to run the psp2, especially after initial problems with the hot output.

I've always been averse to attenuators, though I do have a -20 (I think I'd prefer a -5, and a -10).  I'm averse to that -20 because it isn't impedance matched to this gear, and I always felt non-attenuated preamps would sound better.  Nevermind that many recorders have internal attenuators that we don't specifically know about.

The minijack output on the psp2 is hot.. I don't think there is any way it could be -10.  But I'll try and check if I get it cabled right.

I've used PSP-2 M10 many times in loud situations. Have no fear as the M10 can take whatever signal you feed it. Even if you have to run at 2-3, it won't overload. In terms of how hot a singal the M10 can take, I don't think there is any difference between it and the 722 or any other professional recorder. It's without question the best handheld recorder available that's not a Sonosax MiniR82 or similar.

I agree with you that the minijack output on the psp2 is hot. I'm all but certain it shares the same signal path as the XLR outs; it's not going to be -10dB.

Running with attenuators is just a waste. They should only be used on a hot soundboard feed and only when there is no alternative.

TaperBryan - I still don't understand why you are using the V3 if you're not using it strictly for the A/D? Do you think it's adding anything? The PSP-2 sounds better in terms of it's preamp stage, imo. The V3 is known to have some built-in roll-off.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 12:11:52 PM by tedyun »
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2011, 12:14:57 PM »
Thanks for posting the manual, fobstl!

As far as home level testing goes... I find that home stereos aren't nearly loud enough.  I'd be very concerned that your TV test may leave you in for a surprise.  I seriously doubt 2' from the tv could be anywhere near rock concert "loud".  What you described is about 35 db of gain, and that's going into a recorder that probably has pretty sensitive inputs (just guessing).

The way I figure it, a loud rock show reaching my mics is similar to what I can reasonably yell up really close.  So one test is whether a loud "dah" yelled into my mics from 3" away causes clipping..  It's important not to spit or wind the mics ;)

The v3 gets pretty hot.  Running it in an enclosed bag can really heat it up.  Also, I think it generates a lot more heat when supplied with 9 or 12 volts vs. 6 volts.  Though I've never run it with 6v, so I can't say for sure.  If the batteries are also in that bag, it isn't good for them.    Especially lithiums.  Most of the v3 heat comes off the ends - they are the heat sinks.

I'm with the others - I don't think I'd run the v3 behind the psp2 this time out.  However, you might want to bring it in case you find you need a lower gain option.

I found it interesting that the manual for the psp2 specifically cautions against using dirty power supplies. A lot of external batteries have power regulators in them, and some of those are noisy.  I sometimes notice that noise when making nature recordings at high gain when using wally dvd lithium packs - especially with unbalanced mics like the 4061's.  Beware.

Page, the psp2 only has input transformers.  And they were custom designed for the psp2.

Reading the manual, the sensitivity switch causes more gain to be added.  It isn't clear whether that gain is from the same opamp source as the +6 and +12..  The needs more investigation.   The character of any extra gain will certainly be different than the base gain of the psp2's transformer.  If you need that extra gain, other preamps may sound better.

It's possible that you'd be better off keeping the psp2 at 0 and getting the extra gain from the m10, etc.  Same for the gain from the sensitivity switch.   Just a thought.

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2011, 12:19:13 PM »
The V3 is supposed to be ultra transparent. I really like the sound, but I know others don't care for it (TNJazz, I'm looking at you...) I'm planning on trying this config on Mon, and hopefully I'll have a comp. if all goes well.

The v3 is extremely detailed and has a great soundstage, with lots of definition and depth.  What other portable preamp offers more detail?

However, I feel certain it gives up a bit of low end.  Sometimes that can be a good thing, but I don't see how that characteristic can be considered transparent.

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Offline tedyun

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2011, 12:27:37 PM »
But the Lunatec manual says so!!!

"..the lunatec V3 will faithfully serve as an invisible link between your microphone and recording device."

They wouldn't lie about that, would they?

 ;)

I don't know. I'll try to get that comp so we can judge. I tend to roll off the bass in post anyway so maybe that is why I like the V3 sound....

The V3 is supposed to be ultra transparent. I really like the sound, but I know others don't care for it (TNJazz, I'm looking at you...) I'm planning on trying this config on Mon, and hopefully I'll have a comp. if all goes well.

The v3 is extremely detailed and has a great soundstage, with lots of definition and depth.  What other portable preamp offers more detail?

However, I feel certain it gives up a bit of low end.  Sometimes that can be a good thing, but I don't see how that characteristic can be considered transparent.
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2011, 01:47:01 PM »
Page, the psp2 only has input transformers.  And they were custom designed for the psp2.

Reading the manual, the sensitivity switch causes more gain to be added.  It isn't clear whether that gain is from the same opamp source as the +6 and +12..  The needs more investigation.   The character of any extra gain will certainly be different than the base gain of the psp2's transformer.  If you need that extra gain, other preamps may sound better.

It's possible that you'd be better off keeping the psp2 at 0 and getting the extra gain from the m10, etc.  Same for the gain from the sensitivity switch.   Just a thought.

Thanks.

Yes, the sensitivity is trying match your mic output to a standard level at which point you can request another 6 or 12db of gain on top of that. Picking a level that is designed for "quieter mics" will only yield more gain. The AKGs are hot mics, that's great for the psp2's transformers since they will be more likely to overload and yeild that sonic goo that people want it for. The bummer is that it's not like you can back off your initial gain setting since you're already at the lowest value.

Nagra looks to be using a similar setup with their new EMP preamp, pick the sensitivity of your mics and then dail it in. (they are using 2mv/pa, 10mv/pa and 30mv/pa)

Now, one option would be to run the pads on the AKGs, but that sort of reduces that tranny-goo (go ahead, giggle) that you get from overloading, still keep it at -35, add 0db in the second section, and send that to the DR-07, that might get it under the +8db threshold, I'd have to do some math to see but it looks like it would be close. Or you could just buy an M10.  :D
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Offline TaperBryan

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2011, 02:53:41 PM »
options, options! As funny/goofy as it sounds (and prob is)...I like to watch the lights dance on the v3 ::)

I may run one set w/ just the psp2 and the 2nd w/ both.

and all this talk of an M10...well, I'll need to look into that.  That's a pretty slick/simple recorder from what I can tell just at a quick glance.  and reasonable for as much as I get out taping these days.  I keep telling my wife I'm going to eventually put my rig in the YS.  but, she won't let me.  her response is, "No you're not!  you love to tape!"  My response is, "Yes, you're right.  but, i can borrow a rig if need be from other taper friends.  plus, we could use the $$ to pay off credit card bills, etc."  hahaha.  However, at the end of the day, I haven't been in a situation to where I NEEDED to sell it.  I've been close in the past.  but, fortunately, circumstances and situations worked out for me.


12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2011, 02:56:17 PM »
I think you need to test going out of the minijack directly into the deck. 

I do not understand at all why you want to even bother with the V3.  It's doing nothing in this scenario except adding a second gain stage you have to run through.
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2011, 03:06:37 PM »
But the Lunatec manual says so!!!

"..the lunatec V3 will faithfully serve as an invisible link between your microphone and recording device."

They wouldn't lie about that, would they?

 ;)

I don't know. I'll try to get that comp so we can judge. I tend to roll off the bass in post anyway so maybe that is why I like the V3 sound....

The V3 is supposed to be ultra transparent. I really like the sound, but I know others don't care for it (TNJazz, I'm looking at you...) I'm planning on trying this config on Mon, and hopefully I'll have a comp. if all goes well.

The v3 is extremely detailed and has a great soundstage, with lots of definition and depth.  What other portable preamp offers more detail?

However, I feel certain it gives up a bit of low end.  Sometimes that can be a good thing, but I don't see how that characteristic can be considered transparent.

You rolled-off the mk41>v3 sound? What mics did you do even more LF cuts on ???
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
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Offline ero3030

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2011, 10:22:26 PM »
if u dont come digi out of the v3, all u got is 2 pre's giving gain, no adc from the v3.  so u r still using the adc in your hand held,  pretty much making the v3 pointless.  ed
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2011, 10:28:30 AM »
I contend that because of the stepped gain of the PSP-2, you need to do fine level adjustment at some point after the PSP-2.

Assuming the numeric difference in the "Mic Sensitivity" steps translates 1:1 to gain in dB, and assuming the lowest setting possible with the PSP-2 is +20 dB (see previously in this thread), then the steps are:

+20 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "0")
+26 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "+6")
+32 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "+12")
+40 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "0")
+46 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "+6")
+52 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "+12")
+55 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "0")
+61 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "+6")
+67 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "+12")

Just going off the venue that I've taped a few times, my gain is usually set between +20 to +40, depending on various factors, like the loudness of the band, where I'm standing, and the type of preamp (I've run an Aerco, V3, Lemosax and PSP-2).

So with the PSP-2, it doesn't give me much to play with in the +20 to +40 gain range if you want to do fine adjustments to the gain to get levels between -6 and 0. I am going to be either under or over, so I have to have a second step where I add gain or attenuate.

I am either going to do this with a second stage preamp (like a dedicated unit or the preamp in the recorder), or using software in post.

At this point, I don't mind lugging around the V3, particularly at that venue. There is actually a spot where I can take out all my gear and place it on a shelf, protected from the crowd.

Anyway, I am planning to tape Greensky Bluegrass on Mon at that venue and I will be going:

PSP-2 (bal) > V3 (dig) > MT II or PMD-661   (and hopefully PSP-2 (bal) > V3 (analog) > Mytek > PMD 661)
PSP-2 (unbal) > Korg MR-1

I will probably engage the -20 dB switch on the V3, and use -20 dB attenuator cables on the Korg. Hopefully I'll have a comp for "y'all" (just getting into the bluegrass mood).




if u dont come digi out of the v3, all u got is 2 pre's giving gain, no adc from the v3.  so u r still using the adc in your hand held,  pretty much making the v3 pointless.  ed
« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 10:32:33 AM by tedyun »
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2011, 04:32:13 PM »

I contend that because of the stepped gain of the PSP-2, you need to do fine level adjustment at some point after the PSP-2.

Nice work on figuring out the gain range Ted!

The PSP-2 was originally designed to work with the DAT recorders of the early nineties. Gain is set on the PSP-2 and then you use the potentiometer on the DAT deck for trim. However, I wouldn't haul around a V3 for this function unless you intended to go digital out to the recording device.


Offline tedyun

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2011, 05:49:03 PM »
I was just estimating the gain range -- those values aren't an exact measurement! I just wanted to demonstrate that within the gain range that I normally operate, the PSP-2 has pretty big steps.

Tell you what -- I'll try to use a signal generator and see if I can measure the gain range.



I contend that because of the stepped gain of the PSP-2, you need to do fine level adjustment at some point after the PSP-2.

Nice work on figuring out the gain range Ted!

The PSP-2 was originally designed to work with the DAT recorders of the early nineties. Gain is set on the PSP-2 and then you use the potentiometer on the DAT deck for trim. However, I wouldn't haul around a V3 for this function unless you intended to go digital out to the recording device.
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline tedyun

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2011, 01:35:39 AM »
The gain ranges I estimated were pretty close.

I set up my computer to generate a steady tone, then from my DAC (Headamp Pico), I fed an unbalanced signal to my V3, and then SPDIF out to my PMD-661. I adjusted the signal to a specific level on the meter using the gain and the trim on the V3. Then I placed the PSP-2 between the DAC and V3 and measured the signal increase. I used the balanced outs on the PSP-2.

Mic sens "-35": gain of +28 (ie., the meter increased from -40 dB to -12)
Gain switches +6 and +12 add +6 dB and +12 dB respectively.

Mic sens "-55": gain of +48 (the meter increased from -60 to -12)
Gain switches +6 and +12 add +6 dB and +12 dB respectively.

Mic sens "-70": gain of >+60 (the meter increased from -60 to "over"; I adjusted the trim on the V3 downwards by 4 dB, and it was right around 0, so I estimate that it adds about +65 dB)

That's the best I can do with my equipment I have on hand.

So the revised gain range for the PSP-2 is:

+28 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "0")
+34 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "+6")
+40 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "+12")
+48 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "0")
+54 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "+6")
+60 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "+12")
+65 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "0")
+71 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "+6")
+77 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "+12")

So there probably is a pretty big margin of error and it would be nice to get an actual number for the peak value instead of estimating it by eye. I would say +/- 5 dB. I tried feeding the signal to another computer but couldn't really get the digital in or line in to work.





I was just estimating the gain range -- those values aren't an exact measurement! I just wanted to demonstrate that within the gain range that I normally operate, the PSP-2 has pretty big steps.

Tell you what -- I'll try to use a signal generator and see if I can measure the gain range.



I contend that because of the stepped gain of the PSP-2, you need to do fine level adjustment at some point after the PSP-2.

Nice work on figuring out the gain range Ted!

The PSP-2 was originally designed to work with the DAT recorders of the early nineties. Gain is set on the PSP-2 and then you use the potentiometer on the DAT deck for trim. However, I wouldn't haul around a V3 for this function unless you intended to go digital out to the recording device.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 01:37:52 AM by tedyun »
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2011, 01:36:18 PM »
+t!

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2011, 09:58:41 PM »
Well done!   I was going to that, but I'm so glad I didn't need to :)

+28 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "0")

Heh.  I knew that thing was damn hot at min gain.


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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2011, 10:43:03 PM »
so, are there any other hand held recorders out there that have spdif/coax in other than the M-Audio Microtracker?  Eventually, I'm going to upgrade recorders.  So far, sony pcm-m10 and tascam dr-100 are looking nice.  anybody used the dr-100?  hell...may even splurge on the dr-680???  ok, the 680 may be a stretch at the moment...but, you never know....
12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2011, 11:08:57 PM »
so, are there any other hand held recorders out there that have spdif/coax in other than the M-Audio Microtracker?  Eventually, I'm going to upgrade recorders.  So far, sony pcm-m10 and tascam dr-100 are looking nice.  anybody used the dr-100?  hell...may even splurge on the dr-680???  ok, the 680 may be a stretch at the moment...but, you never know....

The m10 and the dr100 do not have digi in.
Rig: Schoeps mk41v>kcy>vst62iu> sonosax sx-m2/nv or ACM V3> SD 702

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2011, 11:14:28 PM »
so, are there any other hand held recorders out there that have spdif/coax in other than the M-Audio Microtracker?  Eventually, I'm going to upgrade recorders.  So far, sony pcm-m10 and tascam dr-100 are looking nice.  anybody used the dr-100?  hell...may even splurge on the dr-680???  ok, the 680 may be a stretch at the moment...but, you never know....

The m10 and the dr100 do not have digi in.

I know...but, those two have caught my eye.  Aside from those not having digi in and the M-audio...I was wondering if there were any other hand helds that might have digi in?  I haven't gotten the opti mod on my v3 and would rather find a recorder that had digi in, etc.

12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

Offline Big Perm

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2011, 11:45:57 PM »
so, are there any other hand held recorders out there that have spdif/coax in other than the M-Audio Microtracker?  Eventually, I'm going to upgrade recorders.  So far, sony pcm-m10 and tascam dr-100 are looking nice.  anybody used the dr-100?  hell...may even splurge on the dr-680???  ok, the 680 may be a stretch at the moment...but, you never know....

The m10 and the dr100 do not have digi in.

I know...but, those two have caught my eye.  Aside from those not having digi in and the M-audio...I was wondering if there were any other hand helds that might have digi in?  I haven't gotten the opti mod on my v3 and would rather find a recorder that had digi in, etc.

I am looking for the same thing. It seems the smallest and best is the marantz pmd-661
Rig: Schoeps mk41v>kcy>vst62iu> sonosax sx-m2/nv or ACM V3> SD 702

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2011, 12:16:43 AM »
d50
MILAB VM-44 Classic~> Silver T's~> Busman PMD660
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hahaha never happen, PHiSH is waaaaayyyy better the WSP

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FYI, it is a kick ass recording of a bunch of pretend-a-hippies talking.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2011, 12:55:45 AM »
Rig: Schoeps mk41v>kcy>vst62iu> sonosax sx-m2/nv or ACM V3> SD 702

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2011, 01:17:02 AM »
d50

Yes but isn't it optical

It is.

In general, the MT2, D50, and PMD661 are the smallest/cheapest 3 recorders that take a digital connection of some sort and are 24bit..

I did this math 8 months ago when I thought about adding an additional 2 channels to my capabilities.  :-[  :-\
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2011, 09:12:00 AM »
the marantz pmd-661 is looks nice...spdif in as well as xlr ins.  that would work for my psp2>v3 combo.  I wouldnt have to run the odl-276 between the v3 and recorder anymore. 
12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2011, 11:08:12 AM »
I still think running through 2 preamps is a mistake.  If you're going to keep the PSP-2 you should sell the V3 and get a Mytek.
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #59 on: August 09, 2011, 11:13:46 AM »
I still think running through 2 preamps is a mistake.  If you're going to keep the PSP-2 you should sell the V3 and get a Mytek.

+t

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2011, 11:33:16 AM »
i may see if i can take a mytek a/d 192 for a test spin in the near future. 
12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2011, 12:20:46 PM »
ill trade you mine for the psp-2  >:D >:D
Rig: Schoeps mk41v>kcy>vst62iu> sonosax sx-m2/nv or ACM V3> SD 702

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2011, 01:07:18 PM »
ill trade you mine for the psp-2  >:D >:D

hehe...i want to try running the psp2 w/ the mytek.  i *heart* the psp2  :love:
12/17/11 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > EAA PSP-2 and/or Lunatec V3 > Marantz PMD-661 (Oade Bros. Warm Mod)

2-7-07 rig update: AKG c480b(ck61/62/63) > Canare StarQuad mic cables > Lunatec V3 and/or EAA-PSP2 > ODL-276 > NJB3|D8.

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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2011, 05:51:48 PM »
I still think running through 2 preamps is a mistake.  If you're going to keep the PSP-2 you should sell the V3 and get a Mytek.

+t
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
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Re: Adding the PSP2 back in my rig
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2017, 08:32:53 AM »
Bump for posterity.

The gain ranges I estimated were pretty close.

I set up my computer to generate a steady tone, then from my DAC (Headamp Pico), I fed an unbalanced signal to my V3, and then SPDIF out to my PMD-661. I adjusted the signal to a specific level on the meter using the gain and the trim on the V3. Then I placed the PSP-2 between the DAC and V3 and measured the signal increase. I used the balanced outs on the PSP-2.

Mic sens "-35": gain of +28 (ie., the meter increased from -40 dB to -12)
Gain switches +6 and +12 add +6 dB and +12 dB respectively.

Mic sens "-55": gain of +48 (the meter increased from -60 to -12)
Gain switches +6 and +12 add +6 dB and +12 dB respectively.

Mic sens "-70": gain of >+60 (the meter increased from -60 to "over"; I adjusted the trim on the V3 downwards by 4 dB, and it was right around 0, so I estimate that it adds about +65 dB)

That's the best I can do with my equipment I have on hand.

So the revised gain range for the PSP-2 is:

+28 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "0")
+34 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "+6")
+40 (Mic sens: "-35"; Gain "+12")
+48 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "0")
+54 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "+6")
+60 (Mic sens: "-55"; Gain "+12")
+65 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "0")
+71 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "+6")
+77 (Mic sens: "-70"; Gain "+12")

So there probably is a pretty big margin of error and it would be nice to get an actual number for the peak value instead of estimating it by eye. I would say +/- 5 dB. I tried feeding the signal to another computer but couldn't really get the digital in or line in to work.



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