Topic: Rycote Super Softie compared to their Classic Softie

[DigiGal]

VIDEO: Rycote Super Softie compared to their Classic Softie

I found this video interesting and decided to go with Rycote Classic Softie after watching.  There is an update in the notes though that Rycote admitted a manufacturing defect in some of the Super Softies as tested here that has apparently been corrected.

Has anyone here done any side by side comparisons between the two?

[Fried Chicken Boy]

A very revealing video clip.  I can't say I've used any of the Rycote Softies but have been considering and comparing the different wind suppressors to replace my current solution (it's come down to Softies vs Shure A81WS aka "the Big-Ass Shures").  Sorry I can't be of more help, DigiGal, but I'll be watching this thread hoping that someone else can.

[stevetoney]

I have a pair of Softies and a pair of Smoothies.  In order for a Smoothie to reach the performance of a Softie, you need to put a Windjammer over it.  I was considering having Tim make me a pair of hippie colored dead rats as an economical alternative for turbo-charging the Smoothie's. 

The Smoothie is rated for something like 25 db of wind noise reduction and the Softie is rated for 40db of wind noise reduction.  But by looks only, the Super Softie sure looks a lot more like a Smoothie than it does a Softie...which probably means nothing.  For that alone, sure seems like you made the right decision.  I can tell you that you won't be sorry for buying the classic Softies...those are awesome.

I don't know what is so complicated about the design of a windscreen that the manufacturing defect of a Super Softie would make such a huge difference in testing results.  Both the Smoothie and Softie are literally an outer layer of fur or foam surrounding an inner layer of acoustic material.  I'd bet it was less 'manufacturing defect' and more that they saw this test and realized that people aren't dead stupid and don't simply drink the marketing department's Kool-Aid, so they had to go back and change that IMHO really dumb looking (and probably functionally impractical) tear drop design.

[DigiGal]

Can't say I'm a fan of the new teardrop look of the Super Softie either and that too was a factor in not pursuing it further after seeing that comparison.  I purchased the Classic Softie for use on a video camera mounted short shotgun MC11 Ikegami/Audio Technica mic.  I do use big ass Shure's with T-Brown's on other mics and have Rycote Wind Jammer for my VP88

John Willet may have some insight or inside knowledge he could share with us.  I believe these Super Softies are relatively new.

[stevetoney]

It would seem to me that this teardrop design, where it necks down at the base, would shorten the overall life of the product.  How long will thin layers of foam last on the inside when that's the area you're gripping and/or the area that's stressed the most when pulling it on and off?

Regardless of the shape however, that video you linked to is really quite an indictment on the performance of the newer design, both in terms of wind resistance and especially its performance when it gets wet.  I think that's probably more a function of the materials than the shape, so IMHO this video really seems to shoot down pretty much everything about this new design.

[F.O.Bean]

Wowza, very interesting video! Thanks for that DigiGal I have been tossing up ideas for the screens that I want to run for this years festie season, and I'm thinking the classic softies are the winners so far

Anyone have any idea which ones would be the perfect fit for running my Schoeps mk4/mk41s on an active bar? When I say that, I mean which length would be ideal for that usage of just caps on an active bar? I would hate to order a pair and have them not be the right fit. I'm guessing that the smallest length in cm would do? The 5cm version Or the 10cm version? 5cm=2 inches, so I know that those would fit the capsule+collette of a kcy perfectly, but do they have that foam "stopper" inside of them like the bigass shures do? Because if so, then Id need the 10cm version!

Anyone run Rycote Classic Softies and run them with Schoeps actives, or any actives? If so, which cm version do I need?

http://www.rycote.com/products/windshield-solutions/classic-softie-windshield/

[DigiGal]

Bean I ordered 12 cm for the Ikegami MC11 Short Shotgun.  This is the length recommended by Rycote for this mic and the mic only measures 11 cm from the base of the camera mount to the tip of the mic, if that helps you out.

[John Willett]

John Willet may have some insight or inside knowledge he could share with us.  I believe these Super Softies are relatively new.

Rycote has certainly made some changes to the new SuperSoftie as there was a manufacturing problem with some on the first batch.

I did point Rycote at that review video (which they had seen) and they said:-

Thanks for sending this through. We saw it a couple of months back, and have dealt with the issue now.  I’m sending them a new one to review again, along with the Cyclone so it’ll be interesting to hear what they say then.

So - let's see what the reviewer says on the second testing.

On the first testing the SuperSoftie certainly sounded better than the original in the dry as it attenuated less of the high frequencies.

[stevetoney]

On the first testing the SuperSoftie certainly sounded better than the original in the dry as it attenuated less of the high frequencies.

But if the screen design sacrifices on its ability to cut wind noise in order to retain transparency, does that make it a 'super' screen?  I'd debate that point, though I'll withhold final judgment until I see a review of the updated design.

For my needs, wind reduction is the prime function of a screen since I can adjust for any frequency attenuation in post.  That said, I realize that my recording needs don't represent everyone's. 

Stated another way, what good is transparency on a recording that has wind rumble?

[John Willett]

On the first testing the SuperSoftie certainly sounded better than the original in the dry as it attenuated less of the high frequencies.

But if the screen design sacrifices on its ability to cut wind noise in order to retain transparency, does that make it a 'super' screen?  I'd debate that point, though I'll withhold final judgment until I see a review of the updated design.

I don't think the screen design does this - I understand that there were some manufacturing problems on some early units, which were discovered and corrected - hence Rucote being very fair and sending a proper sample for another unbiased review.

For my needs, wind reduction is the prime function of a screen since I can adjust for any frequency attenuation in post.

You can't really put back what isn't there and adjusting the frequency in post will add other problems. 

Stated another way, what good is transparency on a recording that has wind rumble?

Agreed, but the original sample does appear to be one of the faulty ones - it would be nice to see the revised review.

[DigiGal]

Original comparison was six months ago, the update note two months later WRT Rycote admitting a manufacturing defect but no new comparison on their youtube channel as yet.  At any rate I'm glad the Classic Softie is still available as it has been a time and field proven design so I'm happy with my choice of ordering the original.

John, thanks for joining the discussion, I was hoping you had some knowledge to share on this.

[F.O.Bean]

I wasn't aware of how "expensive" the classic softies are until I saw this thread and looked around for the cheapest place. I don't really have $400 to buy [4] of them, since I need them for [4] capsules Guess I'll just get another pair of Rode Dead Kittens to use over my DPA screens. I have been using the Dead Kittens on my mk41s and Tim Browns dead rats, and I must say, I didn't hear ANY wind noise during the music this past summer. Trust me, I would LOVE to have the classic softies for all of my capsules, but just cant afford that route

[DigiGal]

MAP Pricing stinks and anything Rycote is not cheap. For sure Rycote has the best shock mounts available at any price. It can easily be difficult to justify spending more for foam and fur. There is certainly a science to it though and until this manufacturing defect in the Super Softie I'd always believed Rycote was thorough in their research and testing of their products.

[John Willett]

I wasn't aware of how "expensive" the classic softies are until I saw this thread and looked around for the cheapest place. I don't really have $400 to buy [4] of them, since I need them for [4] capsules Guess I'll just get another pair of Rode Dead Kittens to use over my DPA screens. I have been using the Dead Kittens on my mk41s and Tim Browns dead rats, and I must say, I didn't hear ANY wind noise during the music this past summer. Trust me, I would LOVE to have the classic softies for all of my capsules, but just cant afford that route

The best cheap route is to use a Rycote Mini Windjammer over your standard foam windshields.

[John Willett]

There is certainly a science to it though and until this manufacturing defect in the Super Softie I'd always believed Rycote was thorough in their research and testing of their products.

It was a manufacturing problem, *not* a research and testing problem - that's why they could sort it pretty quickly.

I *do* admire Rycote for their continued commitment to R&D - they are innovators.

It was Rycote who invented the Windjammer - the original suspension with O-rings - the Baby Ball Gag - the Softie - the ConnBox and decoupling cables - the Lyre suspension and all the suspensions that use it - the SuperSoftie and now the Cyclone.

Then everyone else copies them, often without fully understanding the science behind it all.

Which is why Rycote now patent their stuff to prevent the blatant copying that happened in the past.

They continually talk to users, listen to them, and incorporate what they can.

It was me who, after talking with the designer of the Lyre and realising it, came up with the idea for the suspension in their stereo windshield - I just took existing Rycote parts and put them together in a different way to have a Lyre suspension in my existing stereo windshield - it worked so well, that Rycote now use what I did in their MS stereo windshields now (and it was cheaper than the old method).

[DigiGal]

John do you know exactly what went wrong during manufacturing to cause the problem?  It can only help to understand the situation if you could share it. My intent was to purchase the Super Softie for this application until I watched that video.

I'd like to pick up a couple of the Windjammers to go over the big ass shure's as they are called here but I don't know what size is needed for these common screens. I have a Windjammer over my VP88 screen and it is definitely superior to other fur solutions I've used on other mics.

Great to know that Rycote is now patenting designs to help protect against the copiers. It's sad that scrupulous companies will copy an idea to create a duplicate looking product for slightly less dollars to steal a sale and stick the unsuspecting buyer with an under performing copy. MAP pricing only encourages folks to seek out a bit of savings effectively making the purchase of a similar looking copy more attractive. I really wish manufactures would abandon the practice of MAP pricing altogether.

[John Willett]

John do you know exactly what went wrong during manufacturing to cause the problem?  It can only help to understand the situation if you could share it. My intent was to purchase the Super Softie for this application until I watched that video.

I am not absolutely sure - I think part of it was a sewing problem that affected the retention of water and also affected the wind properties.

I know this was investigated and sorted at a very early stage, as soon as it was spotted.

I'm not sure if there was anything else involved, there may have been.

Rycote are very good at sorting out any problems that may occur - thankfully few and far between.

[Gutbucket]

For my needs, wind reduction is the prime function of a screen since I can adjust for any frequency attenuation in post.

You can't really put back what isn't there and adjusting the frequency in post will add other problems.

Sorry, but I don't follow this.  The signal is not truncated, it is attenuated by the wind-protection device, typically in a very linear and predictable fashion.  Correcting for the high frequency attenuation of the wind protection is everyday practice and the correct thing to do.  Some microphones intended for use in Windjammers include a dedicated switched filter in the microphone body with a response specifically tailored to correct for it.  Better quality wind-protection should attenuate less, do so in a more linear way, with less distortion of a directional microphone's pickup pattern, while offering the same degree of wind-noise reduction.  The resulting recording will then require less correction, with better preservation of dynamic range through the effected frequency range, but all wind-protection will produce some degree of HF attenuation. 

The main problem I have here is advocating against correcting for the high-frequency attenuation. 

[F.O.Bean]

I wasn't aware of how "expensive" the classic softies are until I saw this thread and looked around for the cheapest place. I don't really have $400 to buy [4] of them, since I need them for [4] capsules Guess I'll just get another pair of Rode Dead Kittens to use over my DPA screens. I have been using the Dead Kittens on my mk41s and Tim Browns dead rats, and I must say, I didn't hear ANY wind noise during the music this past summer. Trust me, I would LOVE to have the classic softies for all of my capsules, but just cant afford that route

The best cheap route is to use a Rycote Mini Windjammer over your standard foam windshields.

Didnt realize there were SOOOO many versions of the mini windjammer Do you know which ones would work the best over a large DPA screen? The DPA 8096 I think its called?

Thanks in advance John Hell, I just found which classic softie would work best with my mk4x/KCY collette on an active bar, and now I have to do the same with the mini windjammer

EDIT: I just did some measuring, and the Special 90 MWJ seems to be the best fit for the Large DPA screens that we all use. MUCH better pricing at $40/each! Especially for us tapers that already have the large DPA screens

[DigiGal]

Bean I haven't found the large DPA screens to be all that effective even with a fur covering although I haven't tried them with Rycote Windjammers.  The Big Ass Shure's do a better job so that's what I use outdoors and save the DPA for indoor use.

[Gutbucket]

I'm curious, how common it is for users here to encounter wind noise using the bi-density foam Shure A81WS aka "Big-Ass" screens without a fur covering over them?  Fur-less is how I've used them and haven't experienced wind problems, but also haven't recorded that way in ultra-gusty conditions.  Steve's post about using hippie-muppets on 'em makes me wonder about when the addition of some fuzz may be warranted.

I've been considering some classic softies for use over the foam screens of miniature directional microphones, for a couple applications where the Shure's would be more than capable, but are simply too big and I'm looking for something less visually imposing.  My hope is that softies over the smaller foam screens will offer similar wind-noise reduction to the 'nude' Shures.

The miniatures are AT 853 cardioids and DPA 4098H hypercardioids.  I've encountered some rumble with simple single-layer foam screens a little more than an inch in diameter over the approximately 2" long miniature interference tubes of the 4098s, where similar conditions with the ATs using DIY faux-fur covers over similar sized foams had no wind issues, but I'm not entirely pleased with additional high-frequency attenuation of those DIY furs, and the softies look a lot nicer as well.

[stevetoney]

I've been using the BA Shures for several festival seasons now...and an overage of 4 or 5 festies each year.  I can't remember really extreme wind, but I know I've recorded in windy conditions and never once heard any wind noise with the Shures. 

For clarification, I was considering fur for a pair of Rycote smoothies I recently picked up...I've never felt the need to cover my BA Shures.  The smoothies have a stated 25db of wind attenuation, so I was giving some thought to getting some furs to fit those. 

I also recently picked up a pair of Rycote Softies which I believe have a rating of 40db of attenuation.  I expect these to replace my BA Shures as my number one screen.

The Rycote product that's only an outer fur that slips over a pre-purchased screen, like say the DPAs are called Windjammers. 

I've also still own and have successfully used a fur product from Windtech called Mic Muffs, which I have slipped over my smaller DPAs in high wind conditions and those work fine as well.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks for the clarification.

Looks like I'd need to see if Rycote has Lavaliere Windjammers which fit the DPA 4098 (they list special models for the 4080 and 4099).  The shorter hair Ristretto Windjammer version would probably work for the 4060 or 4061 omnis used in the same rig, which as omnis are more wind-resistant than the directional mics and usually but not always fine with just small foams.

[Gutbucket]

One think I like about the fur on the Rycote softies and windjammers is that it seems finer, more evenly distributed and 'uniformely poofy'. In other words, less clumpy than many 'dead critter' alternatives and DIY craftstore fur which tends to almost go dreadlock.

[TSNéa]

... and they come with a comb!

[DigiGal]

... and they come with a comb!

I carry a Clinique folding brush like one of these in my gear bag    Short video LINK of Rycote Brush

[stevetoney]

... and they come with a comb!

It's true that the fur on the Rycote's is a fine synthetic that I believe is prone to not clump. 

To elaborate a little bit on TSNéa's comment for anyone that may not know, the Rycote Softie's come packaged with a brush that folds up nicely for compactness into your gear bag.  The brush is something of a design feat in itself in that it's got a sliding button on the handle.  As you press the button and slide it towards the far end, the tynes of the brush rotate upward and outward so that they're extended at right angles from the body of the brush.  The button then has a click to lock it in place.  Rycote recommends giving the Softie a brushing before deploying and particularly after it's gotten wet.  After brushing, the brush can be folded back up nicely and put back into the bottom of your bag and since the tynes are folded back up, it's very compact and unobtrusive.

I'm not sure if the Windjammer also comes with this brush.

[John Willett]

One think I like about the fur on the Rycote softies and windjammers is that it seems finer, more evenly distributed and 'uniformely poofy'. In other words, less clumpy than many 'dead critter' alternatives and DIY craftstore fur which tends to almost go dreadlock.

Rycote put a lot of R&D into the Windjammer fur - lengths of the fibres, type of fibre, the backing and how it's fitted to the backing to give the maximum amount of wind attenuation with the minimum HF attenuation.

[TSNéa]

... and they come with a comb!

It's true that the fur on the Rycote's is a fine synthetic that I believe is prone to not clump. 

To elaborate a little bit on TSNéa's comment for anyone that may not know, the Rycote Softie's come packaged with a brush that folds up nicely for compactness into your gear bag.  The brush is something of a design feat in itself in that it's got a sliding button on the handle.  As you press the button and slide it towards the far end, the tynes of the brush rotate upward and outward so that they're extended at right angles from the body of the brush.  The button then has a click to lock it in place.  Rycote recommends giving the Softie a brushing before deploying and particularly after it's gotten wet.  After brushing, the brush can be folded back up nicely and put back into the bottom of your bag and since the tynes are folded back up, it's very compact and unobtrusive.

I'm not sure if the Windjammer also comes with this brush.

The BBG WJ does.
Sorry for the confusion between a comb and a brush: my hair hardly needs them 

[John Willett]

I'm not sure if the Windjammer also comes with this brush.

Yes it does 

[F.O.Bean]

Bean I haven't found the large DPA screens to be all that effective even with a fur covering although I haven't tried them with Rycote Windjammers.  The Big Ass Shure's do a better job so that's what I use outdoors and save the DPA for indoor use.

I've run the BAS since like 2002-ish I think. Last year in 2014 was the first year since I started using them that I didn't run them! I needed to sell them last spring and never rebought them. BUT, last year I used my Rode Dead Kittens, and I must say, IMO, they did just as good as my BAS did. I didn't notice ANY wind noise during any music, and very little even between songs, so I definitely think the DPAs can do the job if you have a decent fur covering them

But I do agree, Id like the added durability of the BAS or some classic softies. If I can afford to before summer, I'll probably grab some BAS, if not, I'll try to get 1 or 2 pair of the MWJ's

[Gutbucket]

Any update on if the corrected super softies now attenuate wind noise as well as the classic softies?

[DigiGal]

Link to their updated video review.  At the time I purchased it was up in the air so I purchased the classic for my video application.  Their updated review was published Feb 18, 2015.  Watch and decide for yourself as there are plus' and minus' with each depending on conditions of use.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks DG~!

[dactylus]

Link to their updated video review.  At the time I purchased it was up in the air so I purchased the classic for my video application.  Their updated review was published Feb 18, 2015.  Watch and decide for yourself as there are plus' and minus' with each depending on conditions of use.

Thanks for the video link DigiGal!  There are definitely plus' and minus' with each depending upon the conditions of use.

[dactylus]

I'm considering ordering a pair of 5cm Rycote Super Softies and I noticed that B&H doesn't stock the "suitable for mics 19-22mm version", part # 033205.  Would B&H order these upon request?

5cm
Super-Softie (19/22)
Part No: 033205

Weight & Dimensions
Suitable for: Mics 19/22mm
Internal bore length: 70mm
Overall Length: 150mm
Min. Diameter: 70mm
Max. Diameter: 100mm
Net Weight: 65.2 gram

Microphone compatibility
AKG: C391B, CK 1 451, CK 1 460, CK 61 C460 B, CK 63 C460 B, CK 91 SE300 B, CK 92 SE300 B, CK 93 SE300 B
Audio-Technica: AT 4053a; AT 4053b
Audix: SCX1C
DPA: 4006, 4011, 2011c
Neumann: KM 180, KM 180 Series, KM 184, KM 185
Oktava: MC 012 / MK 012
Røde: NT55
Schoeps: CMC Series
Sennheiser: ME 40, ME 62 K6, ME 64 K6

[dactylus]

^
The response that I received from B&H was not what I expected.  They acknowledged that they did not carry the Super Softie 5cm length for the 19-22mm diameter mics.  They did NOT offer to special order this item.   

[ashevillain]

^
The response that I received from B&H was not what I expected.  They acknowledged that they did not carry the Super Softie 5cm length for the 19-22mm diameter mics.  They did NOT offer to special order this item.   

Get in touch with Justin at Pro-Sound: http://www.pro-sound.com/

He was able to special order a Rycote windscreen for me (albeit a different one). Got a good deal too.

[John Willett]

Go to Rycote's Where to Buy page and enter your location - this will give you all the nearby dealers.

Or send an e-mail to Rycote and ask for all the dealers in the USA.

[dactylus]

^
The response that I received from B&H was not what I expected.  They acknowledged that they did not carry the Super Softie 5cm length for the 19-22mm diameter mics.  They did NOT offer to special order this item.   

Get in touch with Justin at Pro-Sound: http://www.pro-sound.com/

He was able to special order a Rycote windscreen for me (albeit a different one). Got a good deal too.

I contacted Justin at Pro-Sound and he said that he could get the Super Softies for me...

David

[dactylus]

Go to Rycote's Where to Buy page and enter your location - this will give you all the nearby dealers.

Or send an e-mail to Rycote and ask for all the dealers in the USA.

John,

I searched that link yesterday and the only location within 500 miles of me was in Winnipeg, Canada...  If I purchase these it will be from Justin at Pro-Sound in NYC.

[John Willett]

Go to Rycote's Where to Buy page and enter your location - this will give you all the nearby dealers.

Or send an e-mail to Rycote and ask for all the dealers in the USA.

John,

I searched that link yesterday and the only location within 500 miles of me was in Winnipeg, Canada...  If I purchase these it will be from Justin at Pro-Sound in NYC.

Yes, the Rycote Dealer list is not as good as it used to be - in the past you could select USA and it would list all the dealers in the country.

But pretty poor service when a dealer won't get the one you want in for you, even if you have to wait for his next shipment.

[voltronic]

Go to Rycote's Where to Buy page and enter your location - this will give you all the nearby dealers.

Or send an e-mail to Rycote and ask for all the dealers in the USA.

John,

I searched that link yesterday and the only location within 500 miles of me was in Winnipeg, Canada...  If I purchase these it will be from Justin at Pro-Sound in NYC.

Yes, the Rycote Dealer list is not as good as it used to be - in the past you could select USA and it would list all the dealers in the country.

But pretty poor service when a dealer won't get the one you want in for you, even if you have to wait for his next shipment.

Sidebar: Anyone else annoyed when website redesigns dramatically favor form over function?  Besides Rycote, the other one that took a fantastic site full of great information and made it look "pretty", while simultaneously making it very difficult to find anything is DPA.  Very frustrating.

Back on topic: Redding Audio is the USA distributor for Rycote.  I contacted them when I was interested in some INV mounts with the softer 62-shore lyres, which is a special order item.  They were very helpful, and said that I could set up the special order directly through them and then purchase through an authorized dealer of my choice.  Redding just needed to know which dealer to send my order to ahead of time.

[John Willett]

Sidebar: Anyone else annoyed when website redesigns dramatically favor form over function?  Besides Rycote, the other one that took a fantastic site full of great information and made it look "pretty", while simultaneously making it very difficult to find anything is DPA.  Very frustrating.

Yes, Sennheiser did the same thing - finding anything is virtually impossible now.

Mic. specs used to be clearly visible - now, the only way is to download the PDF owners manual.

Also, they used to have all the manuals of current and old models easily accessable - impossible to find now 

The rule seems to be style over information at the moment. 

However, the Neumann site still works well, though, with everything easy to find - and still looks good.

Schoeps is OK as well.

The Microtech Gefell site is OK, but they can be a bit slow in getting info. up, there is actually more info. on the UK site than the main one on most of the mics.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

The rule seems to be style over information at the moment. 

QFT.  Such a frustrating pain in the ass.

[voltronic]

John's Sound Link site definitely has much more complete Gefell information than Gefell's own site.  I feel like they should just make his the official page for their recording products, and just maintain the measurement line separately, sort of like DPA vs.B&K.

[dactylus]

John's Sound Link site definitely has much more complete Gefell information than Gefell's own site.  I feel like they should just make his the official page for their recording products, and just maintain the measurement line separately, sort of like DPA vs.B&K.

+T

Not to get too far off topic but upon checking the Gefell link on John's page I noticed that Gefell now has a new SDC, the M320 omni mic.  I knew that Gefell had added the M310 hyper-cardioid a few years ago to supplement the M300 cardioid.  The M3xx's mics are all fixed capsule mics and to be honest I'd love to own all three of them.

[John Willett]

John's Sound Link site definitely has much more complete Gefell information than Gefell's own site.  I feel like they should just make his the official page for their recording products, and just maintain the measurement line separately, sort of like DPA vs.B&K.

LOL

Being a sound recordist myself I like the site to have all the information I would want myself, so I get all the info. I can lay my hands on up there - including pressing Gefell for info. that is not on their own site - eg: the frequency response curves of the M221 with the KA3 and KA4 frequency balls.

I had the info. on the new M320 omni up the same day as it was released - getting them to send me the PDF data sheet and then converting some of the diagrams to pictures so I could get them up straight away.

And I and up taking photos on the iPhone of various things which get put up there.

Glad you like it.