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Author Topic: Dividing my equipment between 2 stages at festival questions/advice  (Read 800 times)

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Offline CorFit Chris

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Ok, I know you all will say there are too many variables to settle on a single answer, but I am just looking for feedback from all you season hardened taper vets out there.  So, here is my scenerio and current equipment.

-Pair AKG 483
-Pair AKG 461
-CA-14 omni (battery box)
-Tascam DR-60D
-Tascam DR-70D
-2 adequate tripods and the necessary accessories to run 3ft splits on both, and additional center channels   

I am leaving to Wind Rider Music Festival tomorrow (Thursday) and am planning on taping at both stages.  There is no gaps between performances as they prep on stage while the other is in action, then kick it off when the other stage finishes.  For this reason, I need to have two separate rigs set up (one at each stage).  While I will have soundboard access to most of the bands, there are a few that will likely not allow the sbd.  I am thinking of the following setups:

MAIN STAGE -   Channels 1/2: AKG 461 (split between 2-3ft) + Channel 3: AKG 483 (center) + Channel 4: SBD > Tascam DR-70D
     - I have never run split cards, but have heard it once and it sounded pretty damn good.  I believe the 70D allows for 4 mono channel recording

SECOND STAGE: Channels 1/2: AKG 483 (center) or SBD + Channels 3/4: CA-14o (split 3ft) > Tascam DR-60
     - I am not certain, but I think the my only options for the DR-60D are two stereo channels (1/2 & 3/4), one stereo channel (1/2), or Dual recording (1/2 & 1/2 -6db).  So, there seems to be no way to get the AKG 483 (center) + CA-14o + SBD all on the DR-60d.  Is this correct?

It's times like this I regret selling my DR-680mkii!

Anyone have any other configuration suggestions that may work better?   

« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 03:05:55 AM by CorFit Chris »
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG c460 & c480 (ck61 & ck63) | CA-14 omni | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d 
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline billydee

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I'm not sure what to advise exactly but it seems you can't go wrong with those options

Are you assuming the soundboard feed will be mono? Anyhow, my good friend James will be mixing for two of the bands there today (Elder Grown and The Brothers Gow) and is always glad to help a taper with a board feed etc. Find him and say hello.

Wish I could join you, should be a blast.
Good luck!

Offline F.O.Bean

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Set everything up so that you have enough battery or can easily hot-swap USB batteries, so that you ONLY have to hit RECORD at the start of the day at that stage, and then STOP at the end of the night! Forget about running back and forth to turn your deck's on & off & hit RECORD & STOP! That will just make you miss all kinds of music ;)

Then when you get home you can slice up the recordings pretty easily and end up deleting all of the extra space! That's why I ALWAYS have a couple bigger SDXC Cards & hot-swap my USB batteries, so that I can just record all day long, whether there's music being played at that time or not ;)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
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Offline acidjack

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Splitting cards is really silly and will cost you a lot of wasted effort, especially with that SBD. Split cards w/ center hyper is even worse. Do what's simple and effective and sounds good. Use the card pair + SBD on the main stage, run the cards DIN or ORTF (if you must have that "open" sound people love) and run the hypers + SBD on the second stage. Both will sound good. Be sure to run limiters or something on the SBD channels as they're likely to be way more variable in volume. And remember, as Bean said, the key is being able to set it and forget it.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Offline CorFit Chris

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Thanks fellows.  I got to this too late and learned some hard lessons this weekend, especially the first day.  I tried to do too much and wasted a lot of time and missed some music as well.  Lesson learned.  I went simple on days 2 & 3 (single pair with sbd).  Will do the "set and forget" method next time for sure, especially since I was at 9800ft elevation and had 2 kids and a girlfriend with me.  Exhausting! 

I think I also need some attenuators for future soundboard channels as I got some popping noises from time to time from the deep beats.  I don't know anything about them.  Any suggestions?
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG c460 & c480 (ck61 & ck63) | CA-14 omni | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d 
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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^  Good advice from Bean and acidjack: keep it simple, use the biggest (and compatible) memory cards that the recorders can handle, and make sure you have plenty of battery power.

A pair of attenuators should be in everyone's gearbag for those times you have to tame a hot signal.  Attach them between the end of your XLR cables and the inputs to your recorder and you'll be set.  Jon at Naiant (Jon Stoppable here on TS) makes quality ones that are only as large as the Neutrik connectors that house the electronics.  He has a few different reduction amount available, -18 dB seems to be a good middle ground, IMHO, but others may have better suggestions.

http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/mpd-inline-attenuator-2/

Offline cjc1103

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I record multiple stages a lot at festivals. I have three complete rigs, mics, batteries, stands, recorders. I agree with the previous replies, use 32GB SD cards and big 12V Li-Ion battery packs. Hit record and forget it. I do try to get back to each stage to check levels, check out the band, then leave again, that way I see most of the acts. Of course for bands I really like I will stay the entire concert, so the other stages are on autopilot. Make sure your record in 24 bit, and set at least 12db headroom (loud band) or more like 15db (quieter band) on the other stages, so a loud band won't clip your levels. I have TASCAM DR-680 MkII decks, which will record a maximum of 2GB to a wav file, than start a new wav file. It takes approx 1GB/24-48 2 channel, so that means each stereo 24-48 wav file is approximately 2 hours max. You could record each channel to a mono wav file, but that makes post production more work. If you get back to a stage between sets, stop and restart the recording, that way a concert won't be split over multiple wav files. If a concert is split between two wav files, you have to concatenate them in a sound editor (I use Sound Forge) and copy the concert into a new wav file. If you record in 24-96, more power to you, but copying and processing the wav files on your computer takes twice as long, archiving the files takes twice the space, and you really can't hear a difference with live recordings anyway, so I don't bother.
I usually try and record both soundboard and aud mics, when possible. Split omnis (3-4ft apart) with an XY card pair in the center is great if you have extra mics. A DR-680 will you record 6 channels, so you can record this mic setup plus the soundboard. This can sound awesome at an outdoor festival, don't recommend it for an indoor venue, as the wall/ceiling reflections will sound awful. Usually your mic setup is limited by the venue. I just got back from Delfest, you have to position your mics either side of the soundboard, so the sweet spot is out of the question, and no board patches either. However they do broadcast the main stage on FM radio, so I have a small radio with a stereo headphone jack that I record from in addition to my mics. Not quite as good as a soundboard, but close. The type/brand/model mic you have is largely irrelevant, as long it is a decent mic, but even Chinese knockoffs like Superlux can do a creditable job, especially if you just mix them with the soundboard. More important is the frequency response and pattern of the mics, hypers are a lot better when further back, and spaced omnis are great if you have them. I use Gefell M300 (cards), 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (cards), Beydynamic MC930 (cards), Line Audio SM6i (multipattern), they all sound good.
Having said all that, when it rains, as it will at outdoor festivals,  your mic stands have to properly staked to the ground (tent stakes, with a bungee cord over the tripod of your mic stand works best) and umbrellas put up over your mics. Too much work and too much to worry about for three stages, so I only tape 2 stages these days.
Chris

Mics: Microtech Gefell M300, 3-Zigma Chi HA-FX, Beyerdynamic MC930, Line Audio CM3 and OM1, AKG SE391
Pres: Lunatec V2, V3
Decks: Tascam DR-680 II (3)

Offline CorFit Chris

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^  Good advice from Bean and acidjack: keep it simple, use the biggest (and compatible) memory cards that the recorders can handle, and make sure you have plenty of battery power.

A pair of attenuators should be in everyone's gearbag for those times you have to tame a hot signal.  Attach them between the end of your XLR cables and the inputs to your recorder and you'll be set.  Jon at Naiant (Jon Stoppable here on TS) makes quality ones that are only as large as the Neutrik connectors that house the electronics.  He has a few different reduction amount available, -18 dB seems to be a good middle ground, IMHO, but others may have better suggestions.

http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/mpd-inline-attenuator-2/

Great...Thanks.  I'll look at what he has.  I am also trying to get a PFA from him.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG c460 & c480 (ck61 & ck63) | CA-14 omni | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d 
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline CorFit Chris

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I record multiple stages a lot at festivals. I have three complete rigs, mics, batteries, stands, recorders. I agree with the previous replies, use 32GB SD cards and big 12V Li-Ion battery packs. Hit record and forget it. I do try to get back to each stage to check levels, check out the band, then leave again, that way I see most of the acts. Of course for bands I really like I will stay the entire concert, so the other stages are on autopilot. Make sure your record in 24 bit, and set at least 12db headroom (loud band) or more like 15db (quieter band) on the other stages, so a loud band won't clip your levels. I have TASCAM DR-680 MkII decks, which will record a maximum of 2GB to a wav file, than start a new wav file. It takes approx 1GB/24-48 2 channel, so that means each stereo 24-48 wav file is approximately 2 hours max. You could record each channel to a mono wav file, but that makes post production more work. If you get back to a stage between sets, stop and restart the recording, that way a concert won't be split over multiple wav files. If a concert is split between two wav files, you have to concatenate them in a sound editor (I use Sound Forge) and copy the concert into a new wav file. If you record in 24-96, more power to you, but copying and processing the wav files on your computer takes twice as long, archiving the files takes twice the space, and you really can't hear a difference with live recordings anyway, so I don't bother.
I usually try and record both soundboard and aud mics, when possible. Split omnis (3-4ft apart) with an XY card pair in the center is great if you have extra mics. A DR-680 will you record 6 channels, so you can record this mic setup plus the soundboard. This can sound awesome at an outdoor festival, don't recommend it for an indoor venue, as the wall/ceiling reflections will sound awful. Usually your mic setup is limited by the venue. I just got back from Delfest, you have to position your mics either side of the soundboard, so the sweet spot is out of the question, and no board patches either. However they do broadcast the main stage on FM radio, so I have a small radio with a stereo headphone jack that I record from in addition to my mics. Not quite as good as a soundboard, but close. The type/brand/model mic you have is largely irrelevant, as long it is a decent mic, but even Chinese knockoffs like Superlux can do a creditable job, especially if you just mix them with the soundboard. More important is the frequency response and pattern of the mics, hypers are a lot better when further back, and spaced omnis are great if you have them. I use Gefell M300 (cards), 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (cards), Beydynamic MC930 (cards), Line Audio SM6i (multipattern), they all sound good.
Having said all that, when it rains, as it will at outdoor festivals,  your mic stands have to properly staked to the ground (tent stakes, with a bungee cord over the tripod of your mic stand works best) and umbrellas put up over your mics. Too much work and too much to worry about for three stages, so I only tape 2 stages these days.

Super thanks for the time on this.  Lots of great advice.  I recently sold my DR-680mkii and now only have a pair of 4-channel recorders (70d and 60d).  This frustrated me when I wanted to record 6 channels at Wind Rider, but I find that a good pair of mics with the sbd is more than sufficient (and easier on my sd cards).  Like many of us i'm sure, I wish I could go back to last weekend and have a redo.  oh well, next time!
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG c460 & c480 (ck61 & ck63) | CA-14 omni | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d 
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

 

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