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Author Topic: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?  (Read 1267 times)

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Offline nak700s

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Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« on: May 27, 2017, 09:20:25 AM »
I have never had the need for a mic pre or phantom power with my rig, but I'm looking to change things up for certain recording situations.

Please try not to be biased, but keep it to the simple facts and opinions.

1) If the 744T has a built in mic pre, why would I need something else.  Can't I run the mics directly into the 744T using the supplied phantom power?
2) If I need a separate mic pre, what is the audio difference (not use with a camera) between the MixPre-D and the 302? How long do Alkaline AA batteries last in these?
3) What would the 3rd mic input do for me on the 302 if I am only using 2 mics?  For that matter, other than using a "center" like the old Nakamichi 3-mic system, what the hell is there for?
4) My primary application for this new set-up is to run a board feed into the 744T, while also using a pair of stage mics for instruments not running through the board or ones too low in the mix. Suggestions would be appreciated.

...Thanks in advance for the help and advice.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
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Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2017, 04:25:56 PM »
I have never had the need for a mic pre or phantom power with my rig, but I'm looking to change things up for certain recording situations.

Please try not to be biased, but keep it to the simple facts and opinions.

1) If the 744T has a built in mic pre,[a pre for each mic input] why would I need something else.  Can't I run the mics directly into the 744T using the supplied phantom power?

Yes, that's the idea of "all-in-one" recorders.  Some people have developed an ear for specific preamp sonic characteristics and they prefer those to the built ins. It means they're also happy lugging extra gear to a gig and paying hundreds of dollars for a bit bucket with Christmas lights.

2) If I need a separate mic pre, what is the audio difference (not use with a camera) between the MixPre-D and the 302? How long do Alkaline AA batteries last in these?

No clue on sonic differences. Search for threads offering comps.  Battery life is best determined by dry lab methods at home where you can monitor battery life.

3) What would the 3rd mic input do for me on the 302 if I am only using 2 mics?  For that matter, other than using a "center" like the old Nakamichi 3-mic system, what the hell is there for?

(... resists eye roll emogi here) Not all audio gear is designed, sold and used exclusively for a Phish show. Radio, TV, Movies all have field capture situations and some just need that one extra mic. If you like the 302 sound and it fits your budget... ignore the third input.

4) My primary application for this new set-up is to run a board feed into the 744T, while also using a pair of stage mics for instruments not running through the board or ones too low in the mix. Suggestions would be appreciated.

The 744 is an expensive tool if you just want to take a patch to add to your aud pulls.
I'd look at a Tascam DR680 for this application or one of Tascam's other multi channel offerings.


...Thanks in advance for the help and advice.



Good Luck
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:19:47 PM by Ben Turnbull »
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Online jcable77

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2017, 04:36:39 PM »
The 302 can actually do a 5 channel "on the fly" mix. There's an 1/8th" 4/5 input you can use for board patch or naiant ipa style mini output/ line input. It's actually quite useful if your running 3 mics and a board or 2 more mics. Just my 2 cents.
Mics- AT 4041's, akg 460's ck 61's/63's/ck8's, akg active  couplings>naiant pfa's, naiant x-r's (cards,omnis). Pre- SD-302, naiant x-y amp, apogee mini-me X2, Lunatech V-3, Decks- R-44, dr-40,dr-100mkiii,  dr-03.....
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Online jcable77

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2017, 04:56:15 PM »
3 AA's in the 302 last about 4 hours with 48v on 3 channels. Maybe a little more but I haven't pushed it too much further.
Mics- AT 4041's, akg 460's ck 61's/63's/ck8's, akg active  couplings>naiant pfa's, naiant x-r's (cards,omnis). Pre- SD-302, naiant x-y amp, apogee mini-me X2, Lunatech V-3, Decks- R-44, dr-40,dr-100mkiii,  dr-03.....
ISO- pair of ADK a51 tl's

Offline nak700s

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2017, 07:44:06 PM »
- Bump -

Still interested in the comparison between the 302 and the mixpre-d...what is the advantage for the gain on the 302, as opposed to not having it on the mixpre-d?
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
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Offline spyder9

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2017, 08:17:58 PM »
I'd get the 302.  It can be had on eBay for $500 nowadays.  It has Lundahl transformers.  It should match perfectly with a MixPre-3 recorder. 

Offline nak700s

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2017, 11:47:40 PM »
Whatever pre I end up with will have to mix perfectly with the 744T.  Cost is very much an issue at the moment, but I want to make an educated choice...hence the question about the two pre's.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 02:53:04 PM »
If you haven't already purchased the 744t, the new Mixpre-6 or a Tascam DR680, Zoom F8 or a used Edirol/Roland R44 should work fine for the application you mention, all at a lower cost.  Hell, even a Zoom H4n Pro would work, so there are lots of options.

If you already have the 744t and your main application is a board feed plus 1 pair of (onstage) mics, the 744 really is all you need.  The 744 has excellent built-in mic preamps, no need to get an external mic preamp.  The issue with the 744 is that it only has 2 channels of on-board mic preamps, the other 2 channels need line level.  If you are getting a board feed for the line inputs and use mics for the 2 mic inputs, you're fine.  If you wanted to run 4 channels of mics, you'd need an external mic preamp for at least 2 channels since the 744 only has 2ch of mic preamps.

If you haven't already got the 744, any of the recorders above (except the Zoom H4n) have at least 4 channels of phantom power and mic preamps, so you could use any of them without an external mic preamp.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline nak700s

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 03:08:23 PM »
Thank you Todd R...

Yes, this was a thought of mine from the get-go.  Why would I need a pre if using a board patch + 2 on stage mics?  There will inevitably be times when I run 4 mics, which is why I'm interested in a pre...but normally, I'll be able to go without, as my main mics are Nak 700's.  The MixPre-D, offering the 2 inputs, would be enough 95% of the time, but eventually, I know I will end up with 4 mics more suited for micing on stage amps and drums...making the 302 more necessary (It's my understanding that I can squeeze more than 3 lines through it).  I do not need phantom power for the Naks, but will for the other mics I'm buying.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline Todd R

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 03:49:04 PM »
If you're trying to keep costs down, you don't really need more than one 2ch mic preamp, since you can always use the 2 (excellent) mic preamps on the 744t.  And any external mic preamp will do, so you don't for instance need the mixpre-d, you could buy a used Sound Devices (original) mixpre, or the older MP-2.  Or the used Lunatec V2 in the yardsale, which is a top-notch preamp.

BTW, with the nak700's that don't need phantom power, you could in a pinch with the right cables run the naks into the Sony M10 to use as a preamp, and then use the line output of the M10 into the line input of the 744t (with 2 condensor mics on the mic inputs of the 744t).  Not elegant, but it would work.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline nak700s

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 04:17:24 PM »
Food for thought, thank you.  I am definitely looking at used equipment (waiting for a reply on a 302 for $350 now!)...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 04:38:58 PM by nak700s »
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline IronFilm

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 03:09:05 AM »
3) What would the 3rd mic input do for me on the 302 if I am only using 2 mics?  For that matter, other than using a "center" like the old Nakamichi 3-mic system, what the hell is there for?

For my purposes I just ignore the 3rd XLR input on the 302, I treat it as a "202"!! ha

This was for the bad old days when 2 track records as often the norm for many people, so having a 3rd input was a bonus which you'd mix down to on the fly while recording.

Or for when you recorded direct to camera, which could only do stereo.

This days I'd completely ignore buying any of the 302 / MixPre-D / 744T!
Get yourself a Zoom F4 / F8, or Sound Devices MixPre6 instead!
Or heck, even a Sound Devices 633! (yes, it is expensive, but not much more so than what a 302+744T combo would cost)

Offline nak700s

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Re: Sound Devices: MixPre-D vs 302 or 744T pre?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 04:50:24 PM »
The MixPre-D will probably suffice for me, and used is fine.  As for Zoom...my mommy always told me that if I don't have something nice to say, I shouldn't say anything at all.  :-X
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

 

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