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Author Topic: Retired taper looking for mics.  (Read 2237 times)

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Offline ts

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Retired taper looking for mics.
« on: June 01, 2017, 11:28:42 AM »
Friend of mine is thinking of getting back into the game. He tried a few years back but postponed the endeavor. Back then I almost had him on pair of Busmans. His budget is south of 700 for a stereo pair of cards. He will also use them to mic his son on a grand piano.

So, that said, I'm thinking:

- MBHO 440
- Busman BSC1
- Rode NT5
- Beyer MC 930 (would need to up his budget a little)

A modular system is not necessary but might be nice.

Thoughts? I'm thinking the HO's.

Thanks!

Offline Moke

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« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 11:59:04 AM by Moke »
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 06:35:23 PM »
For the price, the Busmans are pretty hard to beat if he's looking for interchangeable capsules. 

There are a lot of options and flexibility with the HO's but, if they need to be serviced, they do have to be sent to Germany on your own dime.  I've heard a couple of friends grumble about the inconvenience of that. 

The Line Audio have a solid reputation.  I don't have any experience with them but I do like the recordings I've heard. 

I'd also recommend Audio-Technica microphones.  Often overlooked and underrated, they punch far above their weight and there are loads of recordings with them on the LMA.  In addition to a number of fixed pattern SDC mics, they also make a multi-capsule model called the 4051. 

If he doesn't mind buying used, he can find all of those mics within his budget, including the Beyer MC 930 stereo set (great mics, IMHO).  Perseverance in the Yard Sale here, on eBay, Guitar Center's used listings, Reverb.com, etc, and he should be able to find what he wants at a good price.  Good luck and keep us posted. 

Offline pohaku

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 09:15:32 AM »
For the price, the Busmans are pretty hard to beat if he's looking for interchangeable capsules. 

There are a lot of options and flexibility with the HO's but, if they need to be serviced, they do have to be sent to Germany on your own dime.  I've heard a couple of friends grumble about the inconvenience of that. 

The Line Audio have a solid reputation.  I don't have any experience with them but I do like the recordings I've heard. 

I'd also recommend Audio-Technica microphones.  Often overlooked and underrated, they punch far above their weight and there are loads of recordings with them on the LMA.  In addition to a number of fixed pattern SDC mics, they also make a multi-capsule model called the 4051. 

If he doesn't mind buying used, he can find all of those mics within his budget, including the Beyer MC 930 stereo set (great mics, IMHO).  Perseverance in the Yard Sale here, on eBay, Guitar Center's used listings, Reverb.com, etc, and he should be able to find what he wants at a good price.  Good luck and keep us posted.

The AT4051 is the cardioid model of that microphone.  The AT4053 is the hyper and the AT4049 is the omni.  Caps are interchangeable.  Also note that there are generation iterations (original, a and b) which while physically compatible, are probably not the same sound wise.  So be careful if you are buying singles to form a pair.  Great mics.  I have pairs of each of the "a" line and a pair of the original 4051s.  These typically go for @ $250 each or so used.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 09:22:06 AM by pohaku »
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Offline jnorman34

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 11:59:04 AM »
Great advice above.  Line audio is a wonderful choice, and the audio technica mics (4051, 4021) are excellent bang for buck mics.  I have owned and used both extensively and you can't go wrong with either.
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Offline ts

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 12:37:49 PM »
Thanks everyone. Just an update. He had me poke around the yard a few years ago and he ended up having me verbally commit to a couple sellers and he never followed thru, so his yard days are over, unless he wants to create his own account. His options are to purchase new or try his luck on eBay. I'm just trying to offer him some suggestions. Right now he is using using a loaner pair of Altec Lansing Nak clones from me>battery operated>M10. He's ready to try some nicer mics, but not willing to go over 700. Also don't think he will buy from any overseas vendors. Good suggestion anyway on the Line Audio.

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 02:18:34 PM »
FWIW,... J.P. Gerard at Nohypeaudio was great to deal with, if your friend isn't into overseas transactions.  He is in Belgium, true. But, the transaction was great, and delivery was barely longer than in-states.
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Offline ButchAlmberg

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 06:35:43 PM »
I second the Line Audio CM-3's
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2017, 09:14:31 AM »
Get the Line Audio CM3s.  One of the best purchases I've ever made.  As others have said, JP at Nohypeaudio is a pleasure to deal with, and you're getting mics that were individually hand-assembled by one person at a very low price.

More links to samples may be found at Team Line Audio.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 02:15:54 PM »
For piano recording, the CM3s are very nice.  I suggest your friend take a listen to the recording of a small console piano in this thread:  https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/862926-upright-piano-stereo-recording.html

There is a nice recording of a grand piano in the huge CM3 discussion thread at Gearslutz buried in the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the thread, but I'm too lazy to dig it out. 

Offline acidjack

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2017, 02:40:37 PM »
I'd recommend against the MBHOs for quality, not sound reasons. Simply not as user-friendly of mics to have repaired if something goes wrong, and they seem more fragile / prone to issues than other brands.

Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline ts

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 08:54:16 AM »
My final advice to him is Line Audio for piano and dust off his old AT shotguns for concert taping. Now he needs a pre or a decent all in one.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 01:50:41 PM »
I agree with what everyone else's has said! Cm3's are great mics for the $$, if subcards are your thing or goal. I'd also suggest the MBHO's too! Those were awesome mics when I ran them. Don't let the servicing persuade you, because HO's are great mics and I had mine for 4+ years and I never had a issue ever!
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 06:19:30 AM »
None of us have asked where the grand piano recording is happening.  If it's going to be in a concert hall with good acoustics, then yes the CM3s will work nice, but a pair of omnis is going to be better as long as you can properly place them.  Omnis are always my favorite sound for grand piano.  Don't use them if recording inside a home, though.

You could almost stay within the $700 budget and get a pair of CM3s and also a pair of OM1 omnis.  I haven't seen any OM1 samples on this board, but head over to the Gearslutz threads for that (again, linked through Team Line Audio).
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Offline ts

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2017, 10:38:52 AM »
None of us have asked where the grand piano recording is happening.  If it's going to be in a concert hall with good acoustics, then yes the CM3s will work nice, but a pair of omnis is going to be better as long as you can properly place them.  Omnis are always my favorite sound for grand piano.  Don't use them if recording inside a home, though.

You could almost stay within the $700 budget and get a pair of CM3s and also a pair of OM1 omnis.  I haven't seen any OM1 samples on this board, but head over to the Gearslutz threads for that (again, linked through Team Line Audio).

Mostly in home. Recitals are usually recorded by someone else.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2017, 09:07:35 PM »
None of us have asked where the grand piano recording is happening.  If it's going to be in a concert hall with good acoustics, then yes the CM3s will work nice, but a pair of omnis is going to be better as long as you can properly place them.  Omnis are always my favorite sound for grand piano.  Don't use them if recording inside a home, though.

You could almost stay within the $700 budget and get a pair of CM3s and also a pair of OM1 omnis.  I haven't seen any OM1 samples on this board, but head over to the Gearslutz threads for that (again, linked through Team Line Audio).

Mostly in home. Recitals are usually recorded by someone else.

Then don't bother with the omnis.  The CM3 should work OK, as long as it's a fairly close placement.  I typically don't like that for piano in a hall, but in a home studio you really want to minimize the sound of the room in most cases (unless you live in a mansion or a medieval castle).

I've also talked to several people who recommend a spaced pair of fig 8 mics recommended for home piano recording, since the side walls, ceiling, and floor will all be in a null for the mics.  You only have to make sure the wall facing the piano isn't too reflective.
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Offline cjc1103

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 03:47:04 PM »
There's no shortage of budget mic recommendations out there, but let me throw in my 2 cents. I have a pair of Beyerdynamic MC930s that sound excellent for about $700/pr. I also have line Audio CM3's, but IMO they are not quite as good as the MC930s. It's hard to beat Audio-Technica. I have a pair of AT4021's that really were an excellent bang for the buck, they were highly reccommended by Mike Jasper in his big-a** mic shootout a number of years back. I ended up selling them to finance other gear purchases, but wish I had kept them. An even better value then the AT 4021 is the AT4041, you can find them for $500/pair. They have a smooth frequency response, almost as good as Shure SM81's for overheads and guitar mic'ing, they would be a good budget choice for grand piano. Oktava MK-012 is a well regarded mic, I have seen tapers swear by those. For a budget of $700/pair, I'd go with the MC930s. As usual, YMMV, pick one and go with it. A lot of taping is how you use the tools you have, not what tools you have.
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Offline JiB97

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 02:44:29 PM »
with that budget I'd keep my eyes peeled for a pair of AKG 460s in the yard sale. they can usually be found for around $600, sometimes less, sometimes slightly more.

here is a google doc where the writer recommends the AKG460/KM84/AKG451 as his preference for mic'ing a grand piano: http://tinyurl.com/y97429p7

i've had good luck with my 460s in a variety of applications and the multitude of capsule options both vintage and modern are another appealing factor.
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Offline pohaku

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 03:27:00 PM »
Assuming the friend of the original poster is still looking, the Beyer MC930s currently for sale in the Yard, are excellent Mics and at a great price.  You would not have buyer's remorse with that purchase. 
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
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Offline ts

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 05:09:15 PM »
Assuming the friend of the original poster is still looking, the Beyer MC930s currently for sale in the Yard, are excellent Mics and at a great price.  You would not have buyer's remorse with that purchase.

Sorry, he ended up with Line Audio CM3's. The 930's were a little over budget. Thanks. If I wasn't hooked on active cables, I might have considered those for myself.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 05:34:12 PM »
Assuming the friend of the original poster is still looking, the Beyer MC930s currently for sale in the Yard, are excellent Mics and at a great price.  You would not have buyer's remorse with that purchase.

Sorry, he ended up with Line Audio CM3's. The 930's were a little over budget. Thanks. If I wasn't hooked on active cables, I might have considered those for myself.

 :coolguy:

You might want to pass along that the CM3s are more sensitive to vibration and wind than he may be used to.  I'm firmly in the Rycote-or-bust camp for shock mounting.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2017, 11:40:20 AM »

Sorry, he ended up with Line Audio CM3's. The 930's were a little over budget. Thanks. If I wasn't hooked on active cables, I might have considered those for myself.

The CM3's are excellent mics with both a very flat frequency response and a very uniform pattern across the frequency range.  Because of this, they take EQ very well so it's easy to tailor/master the sound afterwards if you find the flat response doesn't work well for a particular show.

I'm big on actives too, though I will say the CM3 can almost fall into that camp with the right setup.  They are made with carbon fiber reinforced plastic, so they are very light, like 30 grams or so each. And they are only 77mm (~3") long.  Couple them with a Shapeways 3D printed mount (also very light) and a Rycote INV suspension and you've got something pretty much as small and light as an active set up.

I just put together a set of custom chopped XLR mic cables using Mogami W2697 cable -- 2.5mm diameter (less than 1/10"), which are smaller and lighter than schoeps or neumann active cables. 

I'll try to take some pictures of this setup at Rockygrass this weekend and post them.  I'm betting the CM3's with the custom chopped cables and shapeways/rycote mount isn't much bigger or heavier than my Gefell active setup.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2017, 09:38:49 PM »
They are made with carbon fiber reinforced plastic

I'm pretty sure they are aluminum.  They feel nothing like CF or plastic.

I agree 100% with everything else you said though.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2017, 12:55:06 AM »
oops, sorry about that, got them mixed up with some Beyer mics I had looked into.  Either way, I did weigh mine - 30 grams each.  My Gefell caps are also 30g, 55g including the nbob active collettes.
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Offline ts

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Re: Retired taper looking for mics.
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »
The guy that bought these mics already has them setup on piano. I don't how he configured them, I left that up to him. However he is going to let me use them at Peach Fest. I had Ted make some low pro cables. Thanks for the tip on the mount. I'd like to see a pic. For Peach I'm going to use a large Vark bar with an 11 inch spread and a knock off schoeps shock mount. I think dark train made the bar. I've had it for quite awhile and never had a use for it till now. It should provide good isolation. I use a similar setup for my actives.

 

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