Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Internal mics question  (Read 17665 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brian Skalinder

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (27)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 18706
  • Gender: Male
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #120 on: July 30, 2017, 12:32:45 PM »
but, most importantly, I never said here that it was "excellent" (that was for the dime'rs), I merely said that it was ***better than daspys***.

you never did respond the other times I posted *much* better examples (the 5 link list that starts with Mulvey, strictly internal recordings, and a list of I think 10 in the Church Audio thread)....I expected as much, but it is what it is.

Ahhh...my mistake on the Sonic's v. internals.  Nonetheless, I prefer Daspy's in this instance.  I haven't chimed in on the others because you tend to take critical feedback defensively and I didn't really have anything positive to say.  All the samples I've heard -- whether comparing against others' recordings or not -- have been underwhelming.  Not horrendous, but not particularly good, either, IMO.  But I missed the samples in the CA thread, which I'll check out -- I generally find I tend to like the sound of the CA mics and the way many put them to good use.

Again, all that said, I'm glad you and others like your recordings!

vanark -- I get what you're saying and agree wholeheartedly, and I've encountered plenty of instances in which I prefer the recording with cheaper gear v. others (though not typically furry's...yet).  Thank you for taking the time to 'translate', though I have trouble reconciling it with furry's arrogant, binary, and hyperbolic commentary.
Milab VM-44 Links >
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline daspyknows

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2628
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #121 on: July 30, 2017, 02:02:40 PM »
but, most importantly, I never said here that it was "excellent" (that was for the dime'rs), I merely said that it was ***better than daspys***.

you never did respond the other times I posted *much* better examples (the 5 link list that starts with Mulvey, strictly internal recordings, and a list of I think 10 in the Church Audio thread)....I expected as much, but it is what it is.

Ahhh...my mistake on the Sonic's v. internals.  Nonetheless, I prefer Daspy's in this instance.  I haven't chimed in on the others because you tend to take critical feedback defensively and I didn't really have anything positive to say.  All the samples I've heard -- whether comparing against others' recordings or not -- have been underwhelming.  Not horrendous, but not particularly good, either, IMO.  But I missed the samples in the CA thread, which I'll check out -- I generally find I tend to like the sound of the CA mics and the way many put them to good use.

Again, all that said, I'm glad you and others like your recordings!

vanark -- I get what you're saying and agree wholeheartedly, and I've encountered plenty of instances in which I prefer the recording with cheaper gear v. others (though not typically furry's...yet).  Thank you for taking the time to 'translate', though I have trouble reconciling it with furry's arrogant, binary, and hyperbolic commentary.

I do get furby's game.  I sense similarities to another situation that affects all of us today.  I could post his recording as "mine" and he would say his is better just because he seems to have an inferiority complex he can't get past.  There is a way to settle this but he isn't man enough to take the challenge but will just call it "fake news". 

Brian,  I agree with your points spot on.  No arguments here and no issue with critical comments from peers and people who actually have useful comments, not just "arrogant, binary, and hyperbolic commentary".  That is how most oof us learn and improve techniques. 

Offline vanark

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6452
  • If you ain't right, you better get right!
    • The Mudboy Grotto - North Mississippi Allstar fan site
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #122 on: July 30, 2017, 02:35:05 PM »
When you go to "he isn't man enough", you lose me, daspy. You have sunk to levels you don't need to. At the end of the day, you've lost me on what argument you are trying to make here. Your recordings will likely be better in almost every instance. But, furby's recordings are likely good enough in most instances. His point is he wouldn't record if he needed $3000 in gear to do it, so he does it with the gear he has and he, and others, are happy enough. No one is going to release one of his recordings as a commercial product, but it seems the fans like them well enough, esp. when they are the only recording of a show.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: AKG C480B/CK61, CK63 | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10

Offline daspyknows

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2628
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #123 on: July 30, 2017, 02:51:33 PM »
When you go to "he isn't man enough", you lose me, daspy. You have sunk to levels you don't need to. At the end of the day, you've lost me on what argument you are trying to make here. Your recordings will likely be better in almost every instance. But, furby's recordings are likely good enough in most instances. His point is he wouldn't record if he needed $3000 in gear to do it, so he does it with the gear he has and he, and others, are happy enough. No one is going to release one of his recordings as a commercial product, but it seems the fans like them well enough, esp. when they are the only recording of a show.

Sorry, but when subjected to his personal insults here and elsewhere I have had enough.  There is also a difference between good enough to satisfy his minions and his idiotic rationalization.  My basic argument is either STFU or back up your claims in a true competitive matter like suggested like Nak700.  This is like the Twitter trolls who can only spew from a keyboard but will never do anything in person. 

Offline vanark

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6452
  • If you ain't right, you better get right!
    • The Mudboy Grotto - North Mississippi Allstar fan site
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #124 on: July 30, 2017, 02:56:13 PM »
Sorry, but you are achieving the same level of douchenozzlery as him at this point. I don't have a horse in this race. If you don't like that, you can do something about it and stop taking his bait. He has admitted most of it is an act, to get reactions.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: AKG C480B/CK61, CK63 | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10

Offline daspyknows

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2628
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #125 on: July 30, 2017, 03:03:26 PM »
Sorry, but you are achieving the same level of douchenozzlery as him at this point. I don't have a horse in this race. If you don't like that, you can do something about it and stop taking his bait. He has admitted most of it is an act, to get reactions.

Really?  So,  I should just not post anything or ignore it when he posts crap about me?  I've tried that before, doesn't work either. 

Offline vanark

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6452
  • If you ain't right, you better get right!
    • The Mudboy Grotto - North Mississippi Allstar fan site
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #126 on: July 30, 2017, 03:12:04 PM »
Really?  So,  I should just not post anything or ignore it when he posts crap about me?  I've tried that before, doesn't work either.

Yes, that is what you should do. Who cares what he says? Why are you allowing him to validate you and your recordngs? We all know the deal.

"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it."
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: AKG C480B/CK61, CK63 | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5819
  • Gender: Male
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #127 on: July 30, 2017, 03:41:42 PM »
but, most importantly, I never said here that it was "excellent" (that was for the dime'rs), I merely said that it was ***better than daspys***.

you never did respond the other times I posted *much* better examples (the 5 link list that starts with Mulvey, strictly internal recordings, and a list of I think 10 in the Church Audio thread)....I expected as much, but it is what it is.

Ahhh...my mistake on the Sonic's v. internals.  Nonetheless, I prefer Daspy's in this instance.  I haven't chimed in on the others because you tend to take critical feedback defensively and I didn't really have anything positive to say.  All the samples I've heard -- whether comparing against others' recordings or not -- have been underwhelming.  Not horrendous, but not particularly good, either, IMO.  But I missed the samples in the CA thread, which I'll check out -- I generally find I tend to like the sound of the CA mics and the way many put them to good use.

Again, all that said, I'm glad you and others like your recordings!

vanark -- I get what you're saying and agree wholeheartedly, and I've encountered plenty of instances in which I prefer the recording with cheaper gear v. others (though not typically furry's...yet).  Thank you for taking the time to 'translate', though I have trouble reconciling it with furry's arrogant, binary, and hyperbolic commentary.

I was just talking last night about some recordings I did a few years ago. Most nights I just put some Audix with CA cables on my hat and ran near a stack. One night I ran Schoeps on a stand from back by the SBD. The better recording wasn't even close... and definitely not the Schoeps. Similar to Rory's example, if the only "official" spot is grossly inferior, somebody up close with lesser gear who knows what they're doing may well take it on any given night.

Which only goes back to, if you spend the time to get the right placement, EQ properly, etc. you can make great recordings with pretty humble mics. But if you have expensive mics, you should also be doing those things, and if you are, they will be better every time than the comparable lower-end product. But yeah, Schoeps, DPA, whatever also pick up loads more of the signal, and sometimes what they pick up is not desirable for listening.... hence also why people's tapes who don't EQ and post-process correctly can be pretty bad.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5819
  • Gender: Male
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #128 on: July 30, 2017, 03:43:01 PM »
Sorry, but you are achieving the same level of douchenozzlery as him at this point. I don't have a horse in this race. If you don't like that, you can do something about it and stop taking his bait. He has admitted most of it is an act, to get reactions.

Really?  So,  I should just not post anything or ignore it when he posts crap about me?  I've tried that before, doesn't work either.

There's an "ignore" function here that is really helpful to achieving your goal. I'd recommend you do that. You don't need to validate your recordings by arguing about them.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline furburger

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1056
  • Gender: Male
  • UH-LASS-KUH
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #129 on: July 31, 2017, 09:08:45 PM »
daspy, the reason I'm not "man enough" is because the rules suck right out of the gate.


you take your setup, I take mine, we tape the same show from wherever, and that's the contest.



anything else reeks of sterility and pigeonholing.


-------------
people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline daspyknows

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2628
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #130 on: July 31, 2017, 10:39:57 PM »
daspy, the reason I'm not "man enough" is because the rules suck right out of the gate.


you take your setup, I take mine, we tape the same show from wherever, and that's the contest.



anything else reeks of sterility and pigeonholing.

What are your rules?  You say you can make better recording with your gear than me,  let's prove it.  Got hear this excuse. 

Offline jbosco

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 98
  • Gender: Male
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #131 on: August 01, 2017, 08:12:03 AM »
daspy, the reason I'm not "man enough" is because the rules suck right out of the gate.


you take your setup, I take mine, we tape the same show from wherever, and that's the contest.



anything else reeks of sterility and pigeonholing.

He's actually right here, his claim has always been he can take his stuff (Sonic, internals, doesn't matter) and do his "thing" and the recording will be as good (or 90% whatever that means) as anyone's. You can't make him stand somewhere he wouldn't or not finger someone or even take away whatever he does in post, because that's all a part of his thing. Perhaps he knows that his unit can't handle X amount of low end, so he cuts it, knowing full well he's gonna add it back in post, if he can't do that, then it's not doing his thing, it's doing someone else's, he's never claimed that other methods would produce a good tape, just his own.

The only "fair" way of doing it (scientific or not) is both tapers recording the same show using whatever means they use (mics, gear, location, etc, all up to taper) and both doing what ever they do in post. Then conduct an independent poll online where the listeners have no idea as to who made the recording, the equipment used or the tapers location. Any other way would produce results slanted one way or the other.
---
Neumann KM 184 -> Tascam DR 70D
DPA 4061 -> Sony M10

Offline daspyknows

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2628
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #132 on: August 01, 2017, 11:10:18 AM »
daspy, the reason I'm not "man enough" is because the rules suck right out of the gate.


you take your setup, I take mine, we tape the same show from wherever, and that's the contest.



anything else reeks of sterility and pigeonholing.

He's actually right here, his claim has always been he can take his stuff (Sonic, internals, doesn't matter) and do his "thing" and the recording will be as good (or 90% whatever that means) as anyone's. You can't make him stand somewhere he wouldn't or not finger someone or even take away whatever he does in post, because that's all a part of his thing. Perhaps he knows that his unit can't handle X amount of low end, so he cuts it, knowing full well he's gonna add it back in post, if he can't do that, then it's not doing his thing, it's doing someone else's, he's never claimed that other methods would produce a good tape, just his own.

The only "fair" way of doing it (scientific or not) is both tapers recording the same show using whatever means they use (mics, gear, location, etc, all up to taper) and both doing what ever they do in post. Then conduct an independent poll online where the listeners have no idea as to who made the recording, the equipment used or the tapers location. Any other way would produce results slanted one way or the other.

I'm fine with that too.  He can put as much lipstick on his recording as HE wants.   If you follow his posts that task is farmed out to others.

Offline nak700s

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
  • Gender: Male
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #133 on: August 01, 2017, 04:24:00 PM »

He's actually right here, his claim has always been he can take his stuff (Sonic, internals, doesn't matter) and do his "thing" and the recording will be as good (or 90% whatever that means) as anyone's. You can't make him stand somewhere he wouldn't or not finger someone or even take away whatever he does in post, because that's all a part of his thing. Perhaps he knows that his unit can't handle X amount of low end, so he cuts it, knowing full well he's gonna add it back in post, if he can't do that, then it's not doing his thing, it's doing someone else's, he's never claimed that other methods would produce a good tape, just his own.

The only "fair" way of doing it (scientific or not) is both tapers recording the same show using whatever means they use (mics, gear, location, etc, all up to taper) and both doing what ever they do in post. Then conduct an independent poll online where the listeners have no idea as to who made the recording, the equipment used or the tapers location. Any other way would produce results slanted one way or the other.

I disagree.  Furburger said that internals are as good or better than "expensive" microphones (yes, percentages were cited).  A true test for that is to eliminate all variables other than the actual equipment being used to record and make an accurate comparison.  Had I been able to score a ticket for tonight's Phish show (in the tapers section), I was prepared to bring 3 rigs with me to do just that.  Yes, it is all packed!  Although different set-ups than our two combatants, it would have been a fair representation for most.  I was prepared to run my regular rig (Nak 700's > SD 744T), CA-14's > CA9200 > Sony PCM-M10, and a Sony PCM-M10 using its internals, all mounted on the same stand.  It would have been a direct comparison of internals vs. 2 different externals, all other factors being equal.  After all of this arguing, I would have gladly done all the work, if for no other reason, to satisfy my own curiosity.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11430
  • Gender: Male
Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #134 on: August 01, 2017, 04:52:34 PM »
^Nah.  This isn't primarily about gear comparison, it's a taper cage-match throw-down!  A battle of styles, methods and means, mostly.

May the best recording win, each taper doing what they do the way they do it, with the results judged not by popularity elsewhere or by any other measure except blind comparison vote by their collective taper peers here at TS where the row has been sown.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.252 seconds with 37 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company