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Offline acidjack

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #135 on: August 01, 2017, 04:56:25 PM »
^Nah.  This isn't primarily about gear comparison, it's a taper cage-match throw-down!  A battle of styles, methods and means, mostly.

May the best recording win, each taper doing what they do the way they do it, with the results judged not by popularity elsewhere or by any other measure except blind comparison vote by their collective taper peers here at TS where the row has been sown.
I hope this competition actually occurs.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline nak700s

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #136 on: August 01, 2017, 05:11:55 PM »
^^ I hope it happens too.  I'd love to see this played out.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #137 on: August 01, 2017, 05:17:05 PM »
^Nah.  This isn't primarily about gear comparison, it's a taper cage-match throw-down!  A battle of styles, methods and means, mostly.

May the best recording win, each taper doing what they do the way they do it, with the results judged not by popularity elsewhere or by any other measure except blind comparison vote by their collective taper peers here at TS where the row has been sown.

Only one taper is willing   :bigsmile: 

Only way to do it would be a completely independent party gets both of our files and posts the poll.  I am fine with any of the rules proposed so far by those on the board.   


Offline Moke

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #138 on: August 01, 2017, 05:39:27 PM »
https://we.tl/yskBf4qfez

R09 vs. DPA 4022 -> Grace V3 -> SD 722 (DIN stereo @ 9')
Same mic stand, w/ R09 a bit lower due to no sound checking; an impromptu recording by conductors request. He was curious as to how the internals of the R09 sounded, as he was considering buying one for rehearsals, music lessons, composing.

Hall,... multi-purpose room at Country Club Golf Course - not a music hall.  You'll hear stuff in the recording, like HVAC.
And, its acoustic music, and not some bloated PA sounds.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 05:44:37 PM by Moke »
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Offline furburger

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #139 on: August 02, 2017, 04:48:31 AM »

He's actually right here, his claim has always been he can take his stuff (Sonic, internals, doesn't matter) and do his "thing" and the recording will be as good (or 90% whatever that means) as anyone's. You can't make him stand somewhere he wouldn't or not finger someone or even take away whatever he does in post, because that's all a part of his thing. Perhaps he knows that his unit can't handle X amount of low end, so he cuts it, knowing full well he's gonna add it back in post, if he can't do that, then it's not doing his thing, it's doing someone else's, he's never claimed that other methods would produce a good tape, just his own.

The only "fair" way of doing it (scientific or not) is both tapers recording the same show using whatever means they use (mics, gear, location, etc, all up to taper) and both doing what ever they do in post. Then conduct an independent poll online where the listeners have no idea as to who made the recording, the equipment used or the tapers location. Any other way would produce results slanted one way or the other.


this guy gets it.

"90% as good as": if a mic stand recording is an "A to A+" (as per you folks), I can pull a recording that sounds at least like a B+/A- 100% of the time with internals on the DR-2D


to me, it's not worth the $1000's of extra dollars, hauling crap around, set up/tear down time for maybe a 10% improvement in sound quality.


what daspy proposes is ridiculous on numerous levels.



I disagree.  Furburger said that internals are as good or better than "expensive" microphones (yes, percentages were cited).  A true test for that is to eliminate all variables other than the actual equipment being used to record and make an accurate comparison.  Had I been able to score a ticket for tonight's Phish show (in the tapers section), I was prepared to bring 3 rigs with me to do just that.  Yes, it is all packed!  Although different set-ups than our two combatants, it would have been a fair representation for most.  I was prepared to run my regular rig (Nak 700's > SD 744T), CA-14's > CA9200 > Sony PCM-M10, and a Sony PCM-M10 using its internals, all mounted on the same stand.  It would have been a direct comparison of internals vs. 2 different externals, all other factors being equal.  After all of this arguing, I would have gladly done all the work, if for no other reason, to satisfy my own curiosity.


pretty sure that I said the internals are at least 90% as good. don't think I ever said that the internals were "better than" (unless in response to daspy's vitriol).

the Mulvey link I posted, a mic stand isn't going to sound much better. (just one example).


the first time I pulled an internals recording that was significantly better than the Sonics, I was puzzled myself.

now I never run only the Sonics, and the internals "win" in terms of sound quality 20-30% of the time.


it'll be hard to find a venue that I've not taped in before, one that neither of us have ever taped at would add even another variable for me to thump his sorry ass in, as it's incredibly satisfying to go on a 3 week trip and not pick a single lemon.

and it happens very often.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #140 on: August 02, 2017, 08:03:36 AM »
I wonder when this moron is going to realize daspy still doesn't use a mic stand.
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Offline jbosco

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #141 on: August 02, 2017, 08:43:43 AM »

I disagree.  Furburger said that internals are as good or better than "expensive" microphones (yes, percentages were cited).  A true test for that is to eliminate all variables other than the actual equipment being used to record and make an accurate comparison. 

What's the point in that? That test has been done tons of times, hell I've even done that, you don't need daspy or furburger, just an "expensive" rig and a deck with internals mounted on the same mic stand, it wouldn't prove anything that most people haven't already determined for themselves. This is a tapers throw-down, one taper claims he can make a recording as good as another's using internals (or Sonics), time to put up or shut up, put them both in the same ring and let them have at it.

How's this sound for starters:
1) Same show, artist and venue.
2) Each taper picks their favorite song, and the other taper submits same song, then from the set-list someone else picks a song, so each taper submits the same 3 songs, one of which they feel is their best.
3) Someone collects the data and music and hosts the files, with no identifiers other then Song1-A or Song1-B, switch it around so A and B aren't always the same taper.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #142 on: August 02, 2017, 10:27:00 AM »


this guy gets it.

"90% as good as": if a mic stand recording is an "A to A+" (as per you folks), I can pull a recording that sounds at least like a B+/A- 100% of the time with internals on the DR-2D


to me, it's not worth the $1000's of extra dollars, hauling crap around, set up/tear down time for maybe a 10% improvement in sound quality.


what daspy proposes is ridiculous on numerous levels.


What I propose is ridiculous.  You claim your recordings are better than mine but you will do nothing to back up your claim.  Its put up or shut up.   Fellow tapers agree there needs to be a throw down but you are the only one unwilling. Your internal mic recordings are NOT as good and it is not 10% as you say.  Funny this is you probably carry MORE gear than I do with your multiple DR-2D's than I carry with 1 DR-2D, 2 Schoeps capsules, 1 NBox Platinum and 4 foot active cables.  It takes me minutes to set up and tear down so no more effort.  Just better results using 25 year old mics that have been used more than 1,000 times. 

You are just afraid of the challenge.  It's ok to be chicken but claiming the challenge is ridiculous just makes you look weak.  Others here have proposed the rules, there responses are not nearly as ridiculous as FLAC file size or Dime downloads as a means of measuring quality. 

The funniest part is you are the one who constantly posts all the quality fluffing on your uploads.  I don't need to do that. 

Offline KISSFAN

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #143 on: August 02, 2017, 11:50:08 AM »
this argument started off funny, but now it is just sad. I have checked my list and it turns out that to date I have listened to 29 daspy masters and 62 fur masters. And I, for one, appreciate equally all of the efforts that each bring to this community. I will plan to continue listening and enjoying shows from each, but with all of this bickering and baiting, I have come to the conclusion that I probably wouldn't want to hang out with either one. Keep up the great work, kids.

Offline vanark

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #144 on: August 02, 2017, 12:53:55 PM »
but with all of this bickering and baiting, I have come to the conclusion that I probably wouldn't want to hang out with either one. Keep up the great work, kids.

It isn't a great representation of the taping community, is it? If I was someone here looking to get into taping, I'd be scratching my head saying, "Do I really want to do this? These guys are assholes to each other? What will happen when I meet another one at a show?"

Luckily, I met tapers in real life before I ventured here and even then, this place was a much more pleasant place to hang out. Now, get offa my lawn!
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Mics: AKG C480B/CK61, CK63 | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #145 on: August 02, 2017, 01:10:14 PM »
but with all of this bickering and baiting, I have come to the conclusion that I probably wouldn't want to hang out with either one. Keep up the great work, kids.

It isn't a great representation of the taping community, is it? If I was someone here looking to get into taping, I'd be scratching my head saying, "Do I really want to do this? These guys are assholes to each other? What will happen when I meet another one at a show?"

Luckily, I met tapers in real life before I ventured here and even then, this place was a much more pleasant place to hang out. Now, get offa my lawn!

I have met many tapers on this site and I am sure they would vouch for me.  I am sick and tired of the character assassination and personal insults on here and other places from one said troll.  I will gladly ignore if the personal insults stop and don't start again in 2 months.  I have been told to ignore him but that doesn't work in this case so I am doing what I am doing.    If he is so sure his recordings are superior then let him prove it, otherwise he needs to STFU and leave me alone.

 

Offline vanark

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #146 on: August 02, 2017, 03:04:59 PM »
What exactly does "that doesn't work" mean? If you ignore him and don't care what he says, what happens? He continues to post? Who cares? Why do you care? You have allowed him to get under your skin and you have control over that.

I understand, really. I just think you can make a choice to end it. Otherwise the troll gets what he wants - your reaction to him.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

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Mics: AKG C480B/CK61, CK63 | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #147 on: August 02, 2017, 03:11:36 PM »
What exactly does "that doesn't work" mean? If you ignore him and don't care what he says, what happens? He continues to post? Who cares? Why do you care? You have allowed him to get under your skin and you have control over that.

I understand, really. I just think you can make a choice to end it. Otherwise the troll gets what he wants - your reaction to him.

I do not appreciate the personal insults.  You are not the recipient of the nonsense so you really can't understand it.  He has jumped on threads on other sites with same crap.  Ignoring it doesn't work.  Every few months I get subjected to it.  I am not willing to sit here and take the abuse because you think I should.  Sorry if you have a problem with it but I have tried it and it does not work.

Offline vanark

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #148 on: August 02, 2017, 08:06:27 PM »
I just expected more from you than him. I have zero expectation of reasoning with Steve, but, I held out hope there was some reasoning with you that could be done to end this. To Steve, all this back and forth is a game and he is winning. I was trying to point that out to you. I have no ill will toward you, or Steve. I've said my piece and I'll try not to open this thread again.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: AKG C480B/CK61, CK63 | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10

Offline Moke

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #149 on: August 03, 2017, 09:33:07 PM »
https://we.tl/yskBf4qfez

R09 vs. DPA 4022 -> Grace V3 -> SD 722 (DIN stereo @ 9')
Same mic stand, w/ R09 a bit lower due to no sound checking; an impromptu recording by conductors request. He was curious as to how the internals of the R09 sounded, as he was considering buying one for rehearsals, music lessons, composing.

Hall,... multi-purpose room at Country Club Golf Course - not a music hall.  You'll hear stuff in the recording, like HVAC.
And, its acoustic music, and not some bloated PA sounds.

So, did anyone listen?
Thoughts??
Sent From My Craftsman Garage Door Opener

 

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