Topic: Switching from BS2+ UA5 > JB3 to R4... Good or Bad Idea?

[BayTaynt3d]

I'm curious what the long-timers think about this...

I'm thinking about switching from a BS2+ UA5 > JB3 setup to a > R4 setup.

Basically, I want the other two channels more than anything else, but there are other things that make it attractive as well for me (like going from two devices down to a signle device, and some other video production things like timecode jamming, although I need to research that a little more).

Would this be a good move for me? Do you think non-modded pres of the R4 would be better/worse than the BS2+ modded pres of my UA5?

What about the A/D of the UA5 vs. the A/D of the R4 vs. the A/D of the JB3 (sometimes I go SBD direct to JB3, which with the R4 I could go straight into it instead)?

Also, how do I power the R4 in the field, can I use one of my two DVD batteries to do it?

Thing is, I feel like I'd have a hard time parting with the UA5, and especially the JB3. Considering they are both discontinued, and sometimes it's nice to be able to connect the JB3 to the SBD and be untethered to setup my mics wherever else I want to. But to fund the R4, I might need to ditch both. Tough call. I'm looking for some advice on what you think. Another option is to just get another JB3 since I have an FP24, I could get 4 channels that way, but it's way more gear to haul around and setup, and more things to go wrong too.

THANKS for your thought!

-- Taint

[Chanher]

I do not know anything about bm2+ ua-5's or the stock R4, but I have ran a lot of matrices and let me say this: if you know you will be running many aud + sbd matrices, then the R4 will make your life MUCH easier. Having your two sources already lined up AND in-synch is matrix heaven. Otherwise you will have to line up your two sources, then re-synch every 5-10 minutes in the post.

If you only do a few matrices a year compared to many other standard recordings, then maybe a $1300 isn't worth it.

[BayTaynt3d]

I hear you on the matrix front, but sometimes you'll have to sync anyway depending on how far back your AUD mics are from the stage (due to the delay). But at least the R4 can tape it all onto a single device even in that event. On the sync'ing front, it's interesting that you say every 10 minutes, because I've never had it that bad. I use Vegas 6, sync the front end, then if the drift is minor enough, I'll stretch the tail end until the tail syncs, and then I'm done. If the tail sync is less than a second or so, spreading that second out over an hour or more seems to be unnoticeable to my ears, but maybe that's sacraledge to some around here. I've done it that way because in video production, syncing with a front and tail slate is pretty common practice, espeicially if the drift is minimal and when using a good non-pitch-shifting algorithm for the stretch. But if the tail is way off on sync, then that's a whole other story... Does anyone else ever do it that way?

[jeromejello]

taint... i am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but the ua-5 allows the matrix through rcas in the back... it would be possible to have a second set of mics run through that so long as they were seperately powered (the fp-24 could do that) and then run them in via the rca.

just a thought on using the gear you already have... may not be the best solution, but could work

[Brian Skalinder]

I hear you on the matrix front, but sometimes you'll have to sync anyway depending on how far back your AUD mics are from the stage (due to the delay).

True.  But at least since it's all going through the same ADC/clock.  You adjust the delay once and you're done - nice to not deal with delay *and* drift.  I plan on switching from T+ UA5 to R4 in the next few months b/c I want the two extra tracks.  Bums me out thinking about unloading the T+ UA5, though, it sounds *fantastic*.

[BayTaynt3d]

I hear you on the matrix front, but sometimes you'll have to sync anyway depending on how far back your AUD mics are from the stage (due to the delay).

True.  But at least since it's all going through the same ADC/clock.  You adjust the delay once and you're done - nice to not deal with delay *and* drift.  I plan on switching from T+ UA5 to R4 in the next few months b/c I want the two extra tracks.  Bums me out thinking about unloading the T+ UA5, though, it sounds *fantastic*.

Ah, very good point. I guess I knew that, but was forgetting about the difference b/w drift and delay. Very good point on using the same clock. And for the guy above, yup, I have contemplated/used the FP24 > RCA of JB3 front for the second set of mics, but I want to be able to master and mix the channels independently in post, rather than be stuck with my on-the-fly mix through the UA5. But good point, and it wasn't lost on me.

See, the thing is, I'm starting to better undstand my needs and the tools of the trade now, so all of these past months of learning are really starting to pay off. I'm trying to get the most flexible, high-quality system I can that can integrate into my video setup as well. And the more I record, about once per week these days, the more I'm starting to think about an R4 or 744. But the 744 is way more expensive, and not sure, but I don't think it has four pre's, only two right? So, that's where my heads at these days...

So, Brian... Do you think the R4 is going to be a step down from your T-mod in terms of preamps?

[Brian Skalinder]

So, Brian... Do you think the R4 is going to be a step down from your T-mod in terms of preamps?

Based on the few recordings I've heard, I'd say the R4 stock preamp sounds better than the UA5 stock preamps.  Beyond that - I really haven't done enough critical listening - nor have I heard a true side-by-side comparison - to make up my mind.  So I'm kinda in the same boat as you.  At the moment, I think I'm willing to settle for slightly lower quality preamps in return for the 4-channel capability.

[Ed.]

is the R4 bit accurate?

I know there was speculation that it wasn't before it came out, but did anyone test it?

i'm starting to ponder ditching the microcrapper for something else.

[Brian Skalinder]

is the R4 bit accurate?

I know there was speculation that it wasn't before it came out, but did anyone test it?

i'm starting to ponder ditching the microcrapper for something else.

I don't recall anyone testing it, but I vaguely recall reading a reply from an Edirol rep that it resampled the digital input.  Personally, if the resampling doesn't have an audible effect, I'm not gonna worry about it - I'd run V3 digi-out > R4 for purely 2ch recording, or for 4ch recording V3 analog-out > R4 plus 2 ch SBD or 2 ch a second set of mics.

[Ed.]

yeah, i'm curious too.  i should probably do some digging, cuz i'm sure this was all covered long ago on this website...i'll have to do that when i get home from work.

i'm really pondering this, mainly cuz of the hdd.  it'd be nice to have if i hit up roo this summer.  considering i have the mt now, but i still use the jb3 all the time for backup, it'd be nice to just have one unit again.  its not all that stealthable, but i guess i could keep the jb3 for those jobs.  

the mt is stealthable, but there's that ache in your chest that you have thru the whole show as you hope and pray that your file isn't going to be corrupted or some other stupid mt fukk up is gonna happen.  i'd rather not have to deal with that, even it means only making 16bit stealth tapes.

[Ed.]

i've been pondering selling off the v3 and going straight to a 722, but i just can't do it.  i love that piece of metal too much.

[Chanher]

edit:  a clear advantage that the r4 has over the 744 is the ability to provide p48 to four channels, while the 744 only does two.  a major design flaw imo, but that's been beat to death in other threads.

that is an advantage of the R4. but remember the 744 is ideal because it can synch:

1. a stereo analog feed and a stereo digital feed

or

2. a stereo analog feed and another stereo analog feed


Post matrixing appears to be a crazy technology, all the available 4-channel portable devices do different things. For example, the fw-410 can only synch a stereo digital feed and a stereo analog feed. That's it. The R4 can only synch a stereo analog feed and another stereo analog feed. The 744 can do both. Weird.

[Brian Skalinder]

that is an advantage of the R4. but remember the 744 is ideal because it can synch:

1. a stereo analog feed and a stereo digital feed

I wish the R4 did that one, for sure - would love to run 2ch digi-in from the V3 + 2ch analog on the R4.  If I had the cash, I'd run V3/MT + 722 for my 4ch recordings and just sync the two clocks (V3 supports word clock out, 722 in).  Or better yet, with even more cash to burn, V3 digi-out + 2ch 744 analog.  'Course, why stop there - I should just go for the Deva.  Ahhhhhh, a man can dream...   

[Chanher]

Or better yet, with even more cash to burn, V3 digi-out + 2ch 744 analog.

yup, that's the one I'm dreaming of, reasonably compact and SO MUCH capability.

If I had the cash, I'd run V3/MT + 722 for my 4ch recordings and just sync the two clocks (V3 supports word clock out, 722 in).

I remember your V3 word-clock post got me thinking about this, it would only take a couple minutes to line them up with some headphones, and the rest is gravy. If you have a V3 without the opti-mod, could you link 3-4 V3's together? Or does the V3 only have word-clock out period?

[Brian Skalinder]

If you have a V3 without the opti-mod, could you link 3-4 V3's together? Or does the V3 only have word-clock out period?

Well, the optical mod replaces the word clock output with the optical output.  But even if you forego the optical mod and keep the word clock, it's only an output - no way to take the word clock into the other V3s.

[Busman Audio]

I should have an R4 this week and will be starting my mod research on it right away. Hopefully I will be offering mods to these within a month.

[Chanher]

If you have a V3 without the opti-mod, could you link 3-4 V3's together? Or does the V3 only have word-clock out period?

Well, the optical mod replaces the word clock output with the optical output.  But even if you forego the optical mod and keep the word clock, it's only an output - no way to take the word clock into the other V3s.

ah I see

[BayTaynt3d]

Question about doing a matrix with the R4:

1. So the mic/line switches for the R4 work in pairs right? I could set mic/line in for 1&2 and 3&4 in pairs, but not seperately.

2. For matrix, I could go mic in on 1&2, then line in on 3&4. On the line in from the SBD, would that just be connected via unbalanced 1/4" mono plugs for each channel? Can the R4 take unbalanced mono line in on the 1/4". Or would I have to do something else to bring the line in from the board? I'm assuming those are XLR/TRS combo jacks on the R4 right?

Thanks!

[sygdwm]

I should have an R4 this week and will be starting my mod research on it right away. Hopefully I will be offering mods to these within a month.

+t

[boa]

I should have an R4 this week and will be starting my mod research on it right away. Hopefully I will be offering mods to these within a month.

+T and where do I sign up?

[spyder9]

I should have an R4 this week and will be starting my mod research on it right away. Hopefully I will be offering mods to these within a month.

+T and where do I sign up?

Chris (Busman2) is the Man!  No worries do business with him.   

[mmmatt]

I should have an R4 this week and will be starting my mod research on it right away. Hopefully I will be offering mods to these within a month.

Any word on this yet Chris?  I'm anxious to hear what you have found so far.

Matt