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Author Topic: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?  (Read 6707 times)

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Offline Packgrog

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Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« on: November 04, 2015, 03:45:29 PM »
First time poster, so apologies if this has been covered and my searches just didn't pick it up...

Has anyone compared the recording output of the Sony PCM-M10 with any computer audio interfaces? I've been using a TC Electronic Konnekt 6 for archiving vinyl to digital for a while, but lately I've been getting the nagging feeling that electrical noise within my MacBook Pro may be impacting the recording quality. I do recordings with the Konnekt 6 powered by the Firewire port, and while the Mac and phono preamp are on battery power, which does improve sound quality, but I'm concerned that there's still room for improvement. One reason for concern is due to how much better audio sounds played from my old iRiver H120 (with Rockbox) outputting 16/44 audio to my DAC than it does from my MacBook with any resolution. Is the simpler hardware of a portable device just that much less noisy?

If no one has compared these devices, is there anyone within the Philly area that would be interested in gathering somewhere and actually DOING such a comparison? It'd certainly be interesting to hear what various recorders could do with the same source audio.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 01:36:20 PM by Packgrog »

Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 vs. audio interfaces?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2015, 03:08:00 PM »
good question. Myself, I figure that if I don't A/B then I'm not disappointed! I use what I have available, and continue to as long as I am happy with the results!
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Offline Packgrog

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 vs. audio interfaces?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2015, 03:17:39 PM »
Indeed, a sound attitude! Sadly, I never remain happy for long... :P

I encountered a recording or two done with a Zoom (which seems to have inferior recording quality to the M10 based on numerous reviews), and was very pleasantly surprised. How much of that quality sound was due to the recorder vs. the source equipment setup I don't know, but if it were possible to get a more enjoyable, lifelike sound for half the price of my cartridge as opposed to 2+ times the LIST price of my turntable, it's worth exploring. For all I know, I could be getting the best results possible already, but I won't know for certain unless I can do some serious comparison testing.

Anyone? Beuller? :)

Offline Packgrog

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Re: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 01:39:47 PM »
Changed thread title to be a little more broad. I really am curious to see if a portable recorder would be a worthwhile investment purely for line-in recording. Has anyone done any such comparisons? Is anyone willing to try? Has anyone come across similar comparisons on other sites? I haven't had much luck in this search.

Offline Packgrog

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Re: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 02:41:08 PM »
Thanks for the response. Interesting to know about the dynamic range differences on these various units.

Not quite sure how to attempt what you suggest, but I'll explore it. You're getting into territory that I just haven't explored. My focus up to this point has been improving my analog end, as I was still hearing plenty of differences with the Konnekt 6, thus assuming that it wasn't the weakest link yet. But as I said, I'm starting to wonder if taking the laptop out of the equation might provide further improvement or not. Perhaps the M10 isn't quite the right way to go there... FWIW, I'm not actually having "trouble" with the Konnekt 6. I'm just wondering whether I can improve my results further without breaking the bank.

The microphone recording feature (internal or external) is of little interest to me, as is more than two channels. Most of my concert-going would not be taper-friendly, either from obscene volumes that would cause massive distortion, or my wife talking during or between songs as she always did any time I tried to record something with my iRiver H120 or iPhone in the past. I'm purely curious about line-level input and analog-to-digital conversion. If I'm unlike to get real improvements in this area without going to a $1000 ADC or stand-alone recorder, it would at least be nice to know. Better to stick with what I have and/or save for a REAL improvement.

Offline Packgrog

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Re: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2015, 03:51:13 PM »
Interesting stuff, thank you. Throwing something like the PCM D100 into the mix (dynamic range of 100dB, as well as 192kHz support, closer to my Konnekt 6 spec-wise), the potential of general electrical noise bleed from the system becomes even more of a curiosity. I've tried to keep as much of my system off the power line as possible since I started, as this seemed to reduce overall noise and allow for more dynamic, realistic sounding recordings. One of the reasons that I chose the Konnekt 6 in the first place was due to it being BUS-powered via my MacBook's Firewire port, meaning that the ONLY things plugged in when I'm recording are my turntable motor and phono preamp, with the phono preamp switched to battery mode for further sound improvement. My laptop is unplugged during recording, and the Konnekt 6 is NEVER plugged into the mains. This does a decent job, but even then I wonder if the laptop itself is generating enough electrical noise to cloud the signal, even on battery power and with an SSD instead of HDD. Thus the main point of my original post: would one of these less complex, purpose-built, standalone audio recorders produce better sounding digital recordings than I'm getting with my current setup? The "why" is secondary to the "if" in this case. :)

I appreciate the feedback, and thank you for your patience. I freely admit my ignorance in the arena. I know little about the recording side of things, and may have some incorrect assumptions. I'm going more off of trial and error than number crunching.

Offline John Willett

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Re: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 06:05:51 AM »
Changed thread title to be a little more broad. I really am curious to see if a portable recorder would be a worthwhile investment purely for line-in recording. Has anyone done any such comparisons? Is anyone willing to try? Has anyone come across similar comparisons on other sites? I haven't had much luck in this search.

I always use a portable recorder over a computer interface.

I just don't trust computers enough for a live and unrepeatable recording.

I have the AETA 4MinX and a Nagra VI (the 4MinX is about £3.5k and the Nagra about £6k - both about the same quality).

Both these have superb quality mic. inputs, top line audio electronics and will take several line inputs as well as digital inputs.

I also have a few pocket recorders for less important recordings - IE: Nagra SD and Olympus LS10.

I only use the computer for editing.

Offline Packgrog

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Re: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2015, 09:14:14 AM »
USB power rails are kind of notoriously noisy.  That's why you have to test your actual results against the box's spec.  The Konnect can do 102dB under ideal conditions; what about a bad USB power rail?  Maybe less than the D100's 100dB.  Maybe way less.  You have to test & see.
Well, it's Firewire rather than USB, but yeah, I'd need to test it to be sure. I'm not sure HOW to test/measure it, mind you...

Offline Packgrog

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Re: Portable Recorders vs. computer audio interfaces?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2016, 11:50:55 AM »
How would something like the Tascam HD-P2 measure up? Handheld portability would be nice, but if I could get equivalent line-in recording quality (the only feature that REALLY matters to me) for a fraction of the price, that would be ideal. General usability would certainly be a factor as well, but mostly looking for optimal line recording quality with minimal electrical noise.

EDIT: Ah, OK. Tascam 680 is what I should be looking into. Took me long enough to connect those dots. :P
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 01:42:43 PM by Packgrog »

 

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