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Author Topic: Adobe Audition multitrack  (Read 8941 times)

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stevetoney

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 01:10:48 PM »
^ You have to find the offset for time alignment in the multitrack view since that's the way you can view both sources at once.  I convert the time scale to samples for doing any time/phase alignment since that is an easy and appropriate scale to measure with (milliseconds at that level of difference is way too confusing to sort through).  After you have the alignment offset go to edit mode to move the relevant pair forward or back.  Moving the lagging one forward is probably the easier approach but either works.  Then recheck it in multitrack to be sure they're matched.

^ Yep.  Just zoom way in on that distinctive drum beat and click on the peak of one pair.  Hold down the shift key while using your mouse to drag your cursor (or using your keyboard arrows) to the same peak on the other pair.  Check how many samples or how much time you've hightlighted.  That's your offset!

Offline ts

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 10:32:48 AM »
OK, the aud source is about .043 milliseconds behind the board source. Is that the offset? I can't get either pair to move/drag in edit or multi view. :facepalm:
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 10:53:34 AM by ts »

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 11:23:30 AM »
^ A math major  ;D  That is your offset (amount you're moving it). 

The simplest way to explain moving on a timeline if other approaches don't work is to select all from the source you'd be moving backward on the collective timeline > right click > copy > move the cursor to the identified point on the time line > right click > mix paste (replace).  That will paste the entire source back to start at whatever point you've identified.   

That is usually how I do it since I've never really been comfortable with the drag approach. 
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stevetoney

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2014, 11:52:44 AM »
PM sent.  Perhaps I use a more ghetto method than bombdiggity has explained above, but my method has always worked fine for me...

I go into EDIT view of the pair I want to change.  Then I locate a section at the beginning of the recording before the music starts (a section of the recording that means nothing to me such as audience chatter or band tuning) and highlight a section 0.043 seconds in duration.  If I want to move that pair forward, I choose Copy and then unhighlight that section and choose paste.  If I want to move the pair backwards, I highlight 0.043 seconds worth and choose 'delete'.  Go back into multi-track view to re-check alignment.  Sometimes I have to repeat this one or two times to get the tracks perfectly aligned.

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2014, 01:09:31 PM »
^ That would work too.  If there is a silent spot before things start you could likely delete the relevant segment to move that source forward.  I'd probably only do that if it were silent though.  Maybe a good reason to roll a few milliseconds blank on the front of any potential multitrack source. 
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stevetoney

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2014, 04:17:42 PM »
^ That would work too.  If there is a silent spot before things start you could likely delete the relevant segment to move that source forward.  I'd probably only do that if it were silent though.  Maybe a good reason to roll a few milliseconds blank on the front of any potential multitrack source.

Even if it's not silence, as long as you pick a benign segment to copy and paste, whatever you add will be somewhat masked or muted by the other pair of tracks on mixdown if the duration is only 0.043.  If there's a longer offset, say a second or two in the case of two sources from different recorders, I'd try to make sure and have a 'leader' at the beginning of the mixdown and cut that 'leader' out on the final master after mixdown.  A bit of a variation on what you've suggested above, I think.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 04:20:55 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2014, 04:51:48 PM »
Aligning two stereo tracks seems a lot simpler in Reaper, you just drag and drop.

Offline hoserama

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2014, 08:12:47 PM »
You can drag and move waveforms in the multitrack mode with just a right click of your mouse. Right click and drag, do it all the time.
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2014, 10:43:24 AM »
Yes, simple aligning is easier in any good DAW, just drag and drop. 

But if you are aligning sources from two time clocks, a single alignment point will not do.  Well, it will for about 15 minutes, then you'll start to get latency (echo).  So what then?  Of course the simple answer is split your track at the 15m mark, start over and align again.  Repeat as often as the time clocks go out of synch.

But the proper way is to physically and destructively align the two files and shrink one of the files every 15 minutes or so.  Maybe I'm stupid, but I cannot do that in any DAW.  Adobe Audition in its wave form mode is the only program I know how to align the files and shrink one of them mathematically numerous times throughout the recording. 
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Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2014, 10:45:25 AM »

But the proper way is to physically and destructively align the two files and shrink one of the files every 15 minutes or so.  Maybe I'm stupid, but I cannot do that in any DAW.  Adobe Audition in its wave form mode is the only program I know how to align the files and shrink one of them mathematically numerous times throughout the recording.

Pro Tools' Elastic Audio feature does it as well, but of course Pro Tools is fairly expensive.

stevetoney

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2014, 11:00:52 AM »
You can drag and move waveforms in the multitrack mode with just a right click of your mouse. Right click and drag, do it all the time.

This comment just cracks me up.  I always knew my method was ghetto, but I just never knew how to grab and move the waveform.  So simple.  Thanks for this feedback. 

Wonder how many other ghetto habits I've gotten into that I could do much simpler!!!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2014, 11:30:29 AM »
Yes, simple aligning is easier in any good DAW, just drag and drop. 

But if you are aligning sources from two time clocks, a single alignment point will not do.  Well, it will for about 15 minutes, then you'll start to get latency (echo).  So what then?  Of course the simple answer is split your track at the 15m mark, start over and align again.  Repeat as often as the time clocks go out of synch.

But the proper way is to physically and destructively align the two files and shrink one of the files every 15 minutes or so.  Maybe I'm stupid, but I cannot do that in any DAW.  Adobe Audition in its wave form mode is the only program I know how to align the files and shrink one of them mathematically numerous times throughout the recording.

It can be done in various DAWs, in different ways, refered to by different names.  It often needn't be a destructive edit.  It's typically either a resampling type function or labeled something like: 'strectch' or 'elastic audio', or something like that.  Often there is more than one algorithm and 'quality-level' available.  I do it within Samplitude at the object level, shrinking the entire length of the longer file to match sync points near the beginning and end of the shorter one.  It probably doesn't matter that much, but shrinking the longer file is generally better practice than stretching out a shorter one using these algorithms.
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Offline danlynch

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2014, 03:51:40 PM »
Did all editing of both sources in edit view first. Since both sources are from the same recorder and the aud source is only about ~30 feet from the stage, I made the first attempt with no time align. I now see that some time alignment will need to be done. It sounds very good with only a very slight echo. A friend that has done 4 track at this venue (Mexicali Live) remembers it being about 34 milliseconds between aud and board.

So back to AA 3.0 for some alignment. Time align is better in edit view or multitrack?

Thanks!

Your friend is very much in the ballpark.  Generally speaking 1 foot = 1 millisecond, so 30 feet will be around 30ms.  This varies depending upon a number of factors, but again the isolation of a single drum tick (song count ins are the easiest) and comparison of the two sources will give you a nearly exact figure.

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Offline hoserama

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2014, 06:18:38 PM »

But the proper way is to physically and destructively align the two files and shrink one of the files every 15 minutes or so.  Maybe I'm stupid, but I cannot do that in any DAW.  Adobe Audition in its wave form mode is the only program I know how to align the files and shrink one of them mathematically numerous times throughout the recording.

Pro Tools' Elastic Audio feature does it as well, but of course Pro Tools is fairly expensive.

You know, I fiddled with that for a bit too. Liked the potential, felt it wasn't quite so accurate if you needed it to be precise. I was considering doing a thread just about different techniques about time alignment...destructive resampling, elastic audio, chop and align, etc. Of course, it'd just be mainly a vehicle to show off the video I made on how to do time alignment in adobe audition for destructive resampling.
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Offline hoserama

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Re: Adobe Audition multitrack
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2014, 06:19:04 PM »
You can drag and move waveforms in the multitrack mode with just a right click of your mouse. Right click and drag, do it all the time.

This comment just cracks me up.  I always knew my method was ghetto, but I just never knew how to grab and move the waveform.  So simple.  Thanks for this feedback. 

Wonder how many other ghetto habits I've gotten into that I could do much simpler!!!

Glad I could help!
Audio: Countryman B3 + AT853(hypers/cards/subcards) + SBD feeds
Wireless Receivers: Lots of those
Antennas: Lots of those
Cables: Lots of those
Recorders: TE TX-6, Zoom L20R, Zoom F8, (3) Tascam 680, (3) Tascam 2D, Zoom H6, and a graveyard of irivers/nomads/minidiscs.

 

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