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Offline ts

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Bi Amping speakers
« on: July 08, 2012, 06:59:02 PM »
Got an old pair of ADS L1290's that can be bi amped. So I need two amps. Big one for the bottom and smaller one for the mids and highs. Also need a crossover, but have no idea what to get. Already have the amps. Help! Thanks!.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 07:33:59 PM »
Dont waste your money. Get a nice amp and use the internal xovers. Unless you are willing to spend $$$ you will not get a return on your investment.
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Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 07:08:48 AM »
Not sure I understand your response. ADS made amps for these speakers with built in crossovers but they are extremely rare. I already have a spare amp, just need an external crossover. DBX, Rane, Behringer? Just not sure which one or how much to spend. They seem to go for around ~200 on ebay.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/dbx-223xs-Stereo-2-Way-Mono-3-Way-Crossover-106515570-i1849700.gc?&source=4WWRWXGB&cagpspn=pla&=

I'm assuming this one is on the right track?

I have an Adcom 52W per channel amp for the mids and highs and an Adcom 125W per channel for the bass. The DBX gets put in the chain and bingo, no? I realize there is probably a big learning involving proper settings.

Dont waste your money. Get a nice amp and use the internal xovers. Unless you are willing to spend $$$ you will not get a return on your investment.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:00:47 AM by ts »

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 07:41:47 AM »
Not sure I understand your response. ADS made amps for these speakers with built in crossovers but they are extremely rare. I already have a spare amp, just need an external crossover. DBX, Rane, Behringer? Just not sure which one or how much to spend. They seem to go for around ~200 on ebay.

Dont waste your money. Get a nice amp and use the internal xovers. Unless you are willing to spend $$$ you will not get a return on your investment.

You will never match the sound of the other speaker with an external xover unless you know the slope and frequency of the other xover points. Again the whole point of stereo is so that the left and right sound exactly the same so the music mix comes out.
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Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 09:03:51 AM »
Understood. I modified my post above to reflect that point. I'm probably better off with a bigger amp or finding the extremely rare ADS PA1's that were made for this system.

Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 10:45:11 AM »
Not sure I understand your response. ADS made amps for these speakers with built in crossovers but they are extremely rare. I already have a spare amp, just need an external crossover. DBX, Rane, Behringer? Just not sure which one or how much to spend. They seem to go for around ~200 on ebay.

Dont waste your money. Get a nice amp and use the internal xovers. Unless you are willing to spend $$$ you will not get a return on your investment.

You will never match the sound of the other speaker with an external xover unless you know the slope and frequency of the other xover points. Again the whole point of stereo is so that the left and right sound exactly the same so the music mix comes out.

From the ADS L1290 owners manual: Crossovers - 500 Hz and 5000 Hz. High effieciency tight tolerance design with 12 dB/Octave slopes.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 11:28:51 AM »
Not sure I understand your response. ADS made amps for these speakers with built in crossovers but they are extremely rare. I already have a spare amp, just need an external crossover. DBX, Rane, Behringer? Just not sure which one or how much to spend. They seem to go for around ~200 on ebay.

Dont waste your money. Get a nice amp and use the internal xovers. Unless you are willing to spend $$$ you will not get a return on your investment.

You will never match the sound of the other speaker with an external xover unless you know the slope and frequency of the other xover points. Again the whole point of stereo is so that the left and right sound exactly the same so the music mix comes out.

From the ADS L1290 owners manual: Crossovers - 500 Hz and 5000 Hz. High effieciency tight tolerance design with 12 dB/Octave slopes.
I would be more inclined to drop both amps and just get a decent 4 ch amp and a stereo xover.

This is a great crossover. Keep in mind active cross overs are NOT all alike as far as performance in concerned. You do get what you pay for. It might be easier to get a good pair of passive crossovers and a good stereo amp then to go with an active crossover. You will never get the sound matched between the two sides with two different amps and different crossover circuits you can get close but that's not good enough for a true quality playback system, might be good for a beer hall :)  Keep that in mind as you make your final decision.This is a link to an auction for a quality crossover again not designed for home use but will work and will be very high quality sound reproduction balanced outputs on your preamp would be a requirement to use this crossover.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jbl-Dsc-260-/290738737202?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b1611032#ht_500wt_1314

Chris
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 12:43:27 PM »
I have a Rane MX22 crossover that is sitting around without a purpose that I would let go cheap . . . however if you have two crossover points then don't you need triamp?
Yep that's three way for sure. Very expensive to run 6 channels of amps. I would just get some good passive crossovers.
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Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 01:04:05 PM »
The DBX 223 xs is a stereo 2 way or mono 3 way with a sub out. I already have 2 amps. One smaller one for the top and a larger one for the bottom. Both the same manufacturer. Why would I sell them for one 4 channel with all outputs the same. ??? It seems the bigger issue is the settings on the xover. Not trying to be a smart ass, but your replies are confusing me. :P

Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 01:37:45 PM »
Jon and Chris. I appeciate all of your input. Maybe this stuff is just over my head. If you guys get a chance please read thru the manual for my speakers. They are bi ampable. Page 11 shows an ADS biamplifier system control with 2 equal output power amplifiers. I am assuming this controller is an active stereo xover. I do not own the ADS PA1 plate amps that fit in the back compartment of these speakers. They are VERY rare and expensive. This is why I am trying to do this with 2 separate amps and a xover. Yes, I suppose a 4 channel amp or two separates of equal power would be nice, but as I said, I already have 2 Adcom amps sitting around with different outputs. My thoughts are to put the lower wattage amp on the highs and the higher wattage amp on the lows. The wiring would be different than what is shown on page 11 of the ADS manual because those amps in the illustation I'm sure have equal outputs based on the wiring schematic. Or am I totally soaking wet here and both amps have to be same as far as output to make this work properly. :-\

http://sportsbil.com/ads/l-1290_and_l-1290_ownersmanual.pdf

Here's another 2 way active xover that supposedly works well with the 1290's:

http://www.marchandelec.com/xm44.html

But it's 1K. :P
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 02:03:12 PM by ts »

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 02:17:56 PM »
Got an old pair of ADS L1290's that can be bi amped. So I need two amps. Big one for the bottom and smaller one for the mids and highs. Also need a crossover, but have no idea what to get. Already have the amps. Help! Thanks!.

One question. Why biamp them? If they have internal passive crossovers? I don't see a benefit to this what so ever. All I see is a mess of wires and cables and an unnecessary expense. In live audio we biamp or triamp to increase the wattage and acoustic output and lower distortion, that is always produced when you use a passive crossover. But that's because we are driving the SNOT out of the speakers. In a home I would not see any benefit this what so ever unless you are going to get into driver time alignment and then you are into really big bucks for a quality digital crossover. And the test equipment it takes to properly align this would be very cost prohibitive that's why very few audiophiles use active crossovers and if they are :) Chances are they are not set up correctly..... Good home speakers should have a well designed passive crossover that will do a good job of making the speakers perform as intended. If they dont then its time for new speakers.
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Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 03:52:22 PM »
Got an old pair of ADS L1290's that can be bi amped. So I need two amps. Big one for the bottom and smaller one for the mids and highs. Also need a crossover, but have no idea what to get. Already have the amps. Help! Thanks!.

One question. Why biamp them? If they have internal passive crossovers? I don't see a benefit to this what so ever. All I see is a mess of wires and cables and an unnecessary expense. In live audio we biamp or triamp to increase the wattage and acoustic output and lower distortion, that is always produced when you use a passive crossover. But that's because we are driving the SNOT out of the speakers. In a home I would not see any benefit this what so ever unless you are going to get into driver time alignment and then you are into really big bucks for a quality digital crossover. And the test equipment it takes to properly align this would be very cost prohibitive that's why very few audiophiles use active crossovers and if they are :) Chances are they are not set up correctly..... Good home speakers should have a well designed passive crossover that will do a good job of making the speakers perform as intended. If they dont then its time for new speakers.

I have always been told that bi amping these speakers makes an enormous difference.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 04:12:48 PM »
Got an old pair of ADS L1290's that can be bi amped. So I need two amps. Big one for the bottom and smaller one for the mids and highs. Also need a crossover, but have no idea what to get. Already have the amps. Help! Thanks!.

One question. Why biamp them? If they have internal passive crossovers? I don't see a benefit to this what so ever. All I see is a mess of wires and cables and an unnecessary expense. In live audio we biamp or triamp to increase the wattage and acoustic output and lower distortion, that is always produced when you use a passive crossover. But that's because we are driving the SNOT out of the speakers. In a home I would not see any benefit this what so ever unless you are going to get into driver time alignment and then you are into really big bucks for a quality digital crossover. And the test equipment it takes to properly align this would be very cost prohibitive that's why very few audiophiles use active crossovers and if they are :) Chances are they are not set up correctly..... Good home speakers should have a well designed passive crossover that will do a good job of making the speakers perform as intended. If they dont then its time for new speakers.

I have always been told that bi amping these speakers makes an enormous difference.

Yeah it does if you are willing to spend the money and do it correctly. Honestly though for home listening I dont see a huge advantage unless you listen at really high levels.

Chris
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mfrench

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 05:35:56 PM »
Tony,
Try bi-wiring off the same amp instead of bi-amping.
I have a pair of Soliloquy 6.3's that I run bi-wired.  The cables are split at the amplifiers speaker output into a y-pair that enter the speakers at the separate inputs.  I like the sound better than the jumpers that were supplied with the speakers.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 06:47:49 PM »
I run two runs of 9ga. cable to each speaker; Analysis-Plus Bi-Oval9's copper.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2012, 09:31:25 PM »
I run two runs of 9ga. cable to each speaker; Analysis-Plus Bi-Oval9's copper.
I use coat hangers lol :)
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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 09:41:53 PM »
If thats what it takes to get the results that you're after, then go for it.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 10:33:03 PM »
Questions for you, Chris.
Do you remove the clear varnish coating from the metal coat hangers?
If so: Does the rust on your coat hangers have an effect on the sound?
Do you use this system to voice your products?

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 10:38:22 PM »
Questions for you, Chris.
Do you remove the clear varnish coating from the metal coat hangers?
If so: Does the rust on your coat hangers have an effect on the sound?
Do you use this system to voice your products?
No man I leave the varnish on because I find the soundstage much wider. I am working on using chrome painted plastic hangers next;) and of course that's the system I use it is flat from 1k to 3.4568768k
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Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2012, 07:58:08 AM »
I think I may end up selling the two smaller amps I have and get one big sucker. Then I'll try the coat hangers. :P When I first got these speakers in 1985 I ran them with a big Adcom amp. They sounded very nice, but the owner of the shop where I bought them was always trying to get me to biamp them. He closed up in the mid 90's and these speakers have been at the in-laws since then. Now that I have them back the biamping thing caught my interest again. Found a guy on Agon that runs his with two Adcom 555's and the xover I linked earlier in the thread. Right now I'm running them on an Adcom 545 at 125 per channel. I also have a Adcom 5200 at 52 per channel that I can use for the highs. Just need a xover. But I said this already, didn't I?


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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 10:11:30 AM »
This forum has a bunch of ADS fans that really know these speakers. It might be worth poking around there a bit:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
I also have a pair of ADS speakers, though not big ones. I have the L10 bookshelf speakers, which are great speakers in their own right; just not large scale speakers.

Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 10:28:09 AM »
Thanks Mike. I did find some good info there. It seems the ADS fans are 50/50 on biamping. These speakers love power. The more you throw at them the better they sound. Some folks feel using a larger amp gets the same results as biamping. Your biwiring idea might become a good option with a larger amp. I guess since each speaker already has two sets of posts all I need is biwire?

http://sportsbil.com/ads/l-1290_and_l-1290_ownersmanual.pdf



This forum has a bunch of ADS fans that really know these speakers. It might be worth poking around there a bit:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
I also have a pair of ADS speakers, though not big ones. I have the L10 bookshelf speakers, which are great speakers in their own right; just not large scale speakers.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 12:17:13 PM »
These ADS are different, but many modern 2 and 3 way speakers have two sets of binding posts with a bridge between them.  Most of them retain the internal crossover network even when removing the bridge and using seperate inputs, which simply isolates the bass driver(s) and bass crossover network from the mid/tweet drivers and their network.  In that case no external crossover is requried when using two amp channels per speaker. To bypass the internal x-overs on those you need to open up the speaker and rewire things.
 
Any speakers wired like that benefit from bi-amping primarily due to the increased power reserve of using two amps.  One larger amp would pretty much do the same job.  Bi-wiring mostly decreases wire resistance by using twice as much conductor.  Either way the internal crossovers still do the frequency dividing work, regardless of whether they are connected together at the binding posts or not.  They just do it together or independantly.

Less commonly, some speakers have a provision to bypass the internal crossover network completely on 2-way speakers, or bypass a portion of it on 3-ways like these ADS which retain the internal mid/tweet internal x-over even when the lower x-over is bypassed.   I suppose there are some 3-ways with three sets of binding posts designed for external x-overs but that's rare.  I think these ADS speakers have switch on the back that bypasses the lower crossover network, and with that switch thrown you'd need an external two way stereo x-over for the woofer/mid baton handoff.

Here's a question: Is there both a switch and also removable conductor bridges between the binding posts? or simply the switch?  If there are both, you may be able to remove the conductor bridges but not throw the switch, allowing you to bi-amp with your existing amps to increase the available power, while retaining the internal crossovers.   If there is only the switch that isn't an option.  But check with the ADS forum experts and don't blow up your speakers by listening to me!


Confused yet? My current speakers are the more typical 3-ways featuring two sets of bridged binding posts which retain the internal crossovers when the bridge is removed.  I do have the L/R pair biamped, mostly because I'm using fat 4 conductor welding machine power cable as speaker cable so I have the extra conductors there already, and I've set my multi-channel amp to internally switch to L/R bi-amp mode to double up the available amp modules when listening in two channel.  If I only had one set of wires to each speaker, I could set the amp to bridge the availabe amp modules instead of bi-amping, and that would achieve basically the same thing power wise except the four modules would not be driving the woofers and the mid/tweets independantly. When switched to multichannel mode they become simply bi-wired as the extra amp modules are re-routed to other channels.


I also have a pair of ADS speakers, though not big ones. I have the L10 bookshelf speakers, which are great speakers in their own right; just not large scale speakers.

You ever find the tweeter you were looking for a few years back?  I finally cleared out the trunk I had those parts stuff stored in but no sign of 'em.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 12:21:46 PM by Gutbucket »
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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2012, 01:00:12 PM »
Its the bass driver that has turned noisy. The tweets are fine.  I've found a guy that rebuilds the ADS speakers in Az., but, I'm thinking of just getting a set of replacement bass speakers from Orange County Speakers supply house and replacing them both at once. He was supposedly on the design team originally.   
The guy from Az. wants a very pretty penny to overhaul a single speaker. I can replace both with quality replacements for less than he wants for a single speaker. Its been fairly low priority though as they're only used in the bedroom system , which is non-existent for now.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2012, 01:59:41 PM »
These speakers are 90db at 1 watt at 1 meter how loud do you listen to your stereo?? Adding tons of power when you are not going to use it is a waste of money.... That's why so many guys use 25 watt tube amps because for most people thats all you need for the living room....... That being said I use 100 per channel x 7 channels for my surround system + 400 watts on my  sub. But again if I had to measure what I am actually using I bet is not over 20 watts of real power that I am using.
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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2012, 10:33:55 AM »
Thanks Mike. I did find some good info there. It seems the ADS fans are 50/50 on biamping. These speakers love power. The more you throw at them the better they sound. Some folks feel using a larger amp gets the same results as biamping. Your biwiring idea might become a good option with a larger amp. I guess since each speaker already has two sets of posts all I need is biwire?

http://sportsbil.com/ads/l-1290_and_l-1290_ownersmanual.pdf



This forum has a bunch of ADS fans that really know these speakers. It might be worth poking around there a bit:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
I also have a pair of ADS speakers, though not big ones. I have the L10 bookshelf speakers, which are great speakers in their own right; just not large scale speakers.

You can build some experimental cables from home depot bulk stock.  Get some 12ga two conductor wire from HD, and use them. example: romax 12ga. 2-wire cable, or even 12ga. lamp cord.
I'm not sure of what your amp has for outputs; so either use them as a y-pair, or, if you have two sets of outputs, use them as separate runs of cabling.  It won't cost much to do this ~$20, and you may end up liking them enough to just leave it that way.

mfrench

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2012, 11:08:13 AM »
I was just working with the Romex of that gauge pulling a dedicated circuit leads, so it was fresh in my mind.  I'd use it because i have it on hand.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2012, 11:49:24 AM »
Watts are not watts.  I've seen "80 watt" denon amps that couldn't drive speakers as loud as a 12 watt Naim.

As far as audio quality goes, you may find driving the amp directly, or passively, produces far greater gains in audio quality than bi-amping.  Eliminating the pre-amp with my Squeezebox > DNA125 > VR4 combo resulted in a shockingly dramatic improvement in sound quality.  I sort of tried it on a lark, but subsequently found large online communities that focus on ways to do it.

Not all gear is well suited to the passive approach - it depends on the source and the amp.  The DNA125 has very high input impedance.  That allowed me to get lucky, and not need an impedance matching stage.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2012, 05:58:32 PM »
Watts are not watts.  I've seen "80 watt" denon amps that couldn't drive speakers as loud as a 12 watt Naim.

As far as audio quality goes, you may find driving the amp directly, or passively, produces far greater gains in audio quality than bi-amping.  Eliminating the pre-amp with my Squeezebox > DNA125 > VR4 combo resulted in a shockingly dramatic improvement in sound quality.  I sort of tried it on a lark, but subsequently found large online communities that focus on ways to do it.

Not all gear is well suited to the passive approach - it depends on the source and the amp.  The DNA125 has very high input impedance.  That allowed me to get lucky, and not need an impedance matching stage.
Most of these amps are using a multi amp IC chip with a 50v power supply at around 3 amps there is no way in hell you will ever see 100 a ch x 6 channels most of these companies use "magic watts" lol most dont talk about THD% @ Full output because they know at full output the distortion figures are really bad. Also the impedance curves of most speaker suck the big sack as well so that contributes to the distortion. You are correct watts are not watts in most cases. Thats why you dont need crazy power you just need honest power because at the end of the day most people never use more then 20 watts of real power in a living room.
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Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2012, 09:22:32 AM »
OK, I'm now thinking about Mike's suggestion and biwiring. I also have an integrated amp with 2 sets of posts for each channel and the ADS L1290's also have 2 sets of posts on each speaker.

http://sportsbil.com/ads/l-1290_and_l-1290_ownersmanual.pdf

http://www.musichallaudio.com/product_files/maven/maven.pdf

How can I do this? Remember play nice, as I am technically challenged. :P

mfrench

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2012, 09:42:23 AM »
Take out any post bridging that might be on your speakers.  You do not want any connection bridging made between the posts that were there prior to this effort.

keep your phasing correct:
L+ to L+ /// R+ to R+ 
L- to L- /// R- to R-
Do this at all four points of both the amp and speaker, when connecting speaker cable leads.

Do you have cable?
If not, for the experiment, you can use a heavy gauge of stranded lamp cord, like 10 or 12gauge wire (smaller numbers equal larger diameter), for your runs.  Home Depot or Lowes sell wire from bulk spools. So you can get a minimum amount without having to break the bank on full spools (for an experiment; copper ain't cheap anymore).  As Lee (gutbucket) suggested, you can also use battery terminal lead wire or welding wire.

Offline ts

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2012, 09:50:55 AM »
Thanks Mike. Can I ask you to take a quick look at the 1290 owners manual. As these are setup for biamping and I am unsure what to do with biwiring. ie: post bridging.

http://sportsbil.com/ads/l-1290_and_l-1290_ownersmanual.pdf



Take out any post bridging that might be on your speakers.  You do not want any connection bridging made between the posts that were there prior to this effort.

keep your phasing correct:
L+ to L+ /// R+ to R+ 
L- to L- /// R- to R-
Do this at all four points of both the amp and speaker, when connecting speaker cable leads.

Do you have cable?
If not, for the experiment, you can use a heavy gauge of stranded lamp cord, like 10 or 12gauge wire (smaller numbers equal larger diameter), for your runs.  Home Depot or Lowes sell wire from bulk spools. So you can get a minimum amount without having to break the bank on full spools (for an experiment; copper ain't cheap anymore).  As Lee (gutbucket) suggested, you can also use battery terminal lead wire or welding wire.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2012, 10:28:33 AM »
You can run as many pairs of wires as makes you happy between the amp and speakers.  You can use a single set of binding posts on each speaker and amp and cram as many wires in there as will fit.  Or if it's more convenient, you can use both sets of binding posts on the speakers as long as you don't throw the switch on the back to bi-amp mode (which internally disconnects the two sets of posts) and you can use both sets of binding posts on the amp if you switch on both the A and B speaker outputs on the amp.

Using the extra posts on either the speaker or amp side mostly makes for convenience in attaching the extra wire pairs, electrically it's the same using a single set of posts at either end.  Using two sets of wires per speaker is pretty much the same as using a single wire with conductors that are twice as large. 

The most important thing is to make sure the polarity of the wires is correct.  Like Mike says + connected to + and - connected to -, regardless of how many coat hangers you use.

Take out any post bridging that might be on your speakers.  You do not want any connection bridging made between the posts that were there prior to this effort.

Not for these speakers.  If using both sets of posts on the speakers and not using an external crossover, you must keep the speaker input pairs pairs bridged.  Otherwise you won't hurt the speakers, but you will get full range sound out of the woofer with no crossover to it.  There are no removable external bridging conections between posts like on many speakers with two sets of posts, the connection is made internally with the bi-amp switch.  Make sure the bi-amp switch is not set to the bi-amp position.  Leave it in the normal position and you can use both sets of posts if you like.
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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2012, 10:38:26 AM »
Yeah, i now realize that. I hadn't seen the manual, and was speaking in generalities.
Also:  The suggestion of the speaker cable gauge - the manual suggests 16g as the maximum, without having to install terminations to make larger gauge fit.
Follow Lees advice.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2012, 10:42:09 AM »
Take out any post bridging that might be on your speakers.  You do not want any connection bridging made between the posts that were there prior to this effort.

To clarify, this is what makes these speakers somewhat unusual.  For typical speakers with two sets of normally bridged posts, you could remove the bridging and use two seperate amps without an external crossover.  That would be what is typically called "passive biamping" - all the crossover filtering would be done in the speaker, even though the woofer and the midrange / tweeter would be driven by seperate amps.  But you can't do that on these without opening up the speakers and re-wiring things internally because doing so would bypass the crossover for the woofer.

The way these speakers are wired makes it easier to actively bi-amp with an external crossover, but more difficult to passively bi amp witout one.

You can use heavier than 16guage wires that if you want, but as Mike mentions, you'll need to either install terminations that will fit the posts, or simply trim down the end diameter of the bare conductors until they'll fit.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:44:05 AM by Gutbucket »
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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2012, 11:27:04 AM »
Thanks Mike and gotbucket. I will try biwiring first since I don't own a crossover yet.

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2012, 09:06:10 AM »
i've been using 4 channels of a 7 channel amp on my fronts for 8 years now.  separate for lows and highs for each l and r

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Re: Bi Amping speakers
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2012, 09:53:46 AM »
That's how mine rolls for 2 channel.  I realized that I could set the multichannel amp to automatically switch to bi-amp mode for 2 channel stereo using two seperate internal 100W amp modules per side.  Sounds pretty much the same to me as setting it to simply bridge the two amp modules instead of seperately bi-amping for the same total wattage (the alternate 2 channel only option), yet the extra wires are already run to the L/R speakers so why not.

In multichannel mode it switches back to using a single 100W module per speaker.  Cranking it up to near live levels, the additional bass headroom provided from doubling the modules (either bridged or bi-amped) is welcome, yet at normal listening levels all three options sound pretty much identical.  The audiophile-minded will laugh at me for using this amp and generally claim I need 300-500Watts on each side to drive my 3-way floorstanders properly, but I think Chris is correct that 100WPC is typically enough for speakers with a sensitivity of 90db at 1 watt at 1 meter.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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