Topic: Another tOOb vs solid state question (BASS)

[BCostigan]

In researching new amps (hoping to go toob) I've come across several statements that make it sound like ss amps do a better job with bass than tube amps. 

From what I've read it seems like the bass from a solid state amp is more "musical" and that the bass from tubes tends to be kinda flattened and "one note" sounding. To me it makes sense as I often associate a warm/analog sound with slightly muddy bass. 


Will I sacrafice the dynamic bass I've newly discovered and come to love by going to tOOBs?

[ducati]

NO.  This is an old wives tale, misnomer, web BS, whatever you want to call it.

It's not that you CAN'T get wooly and uncontrolled bass from a poorly designed tube setup..  But if you do it's just that, poorly designed.  Often times cheaper tube amps will play to the "tube strengths" (or what most people think they are) and go for midrange lushness above all else.  But this is design, not inherent to tubes.

Tube amps known for good bass that I have heard: Audio Research, Manley, Rogue, there are many others.  I would say the Jolidas I have heard are more mid-focused, and although they certainly don't have "one note" bass, they don't have the slam some folks crave.

[Frank M]

NO.  This is an old wives tale, misnomer, web BS, whatever you want to call it.

I don't exactly disagree with you since I know where you're coming from.  Tube amps have been maligned enough as it is!

Generally speaking though, SS amps often do a better job with DEEP bass since they're not as finnicky with low-impedance loads.  When I run my Golden Tube SE-40 full-range with the Von Schweikerts, the bottom octave isn't what it should be.  It can still play quite loud and with plenty of bass, it just doesn't have the slam the 120W/ch SS amp does that I normally run on the bass modules.

For the record, the best bass I've heard in my system was from one of those class-D (switching amp) Panasonic receivers.  The bass was so well-damped (i.e. tight) I was stunned. 

[BCostigan]

I assume tOObs lack of bass is an exagerated truth....but now has me wondering if tubes are the way to go.  Guess I could always sell whatever I buy if I don't like it.............

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

You can always bi-amp with SS on the bottom and tubes on the mid/high side.

Where you see a possible problem, I see a solution that requires another purchase ;-)

[JackoRoses]

You can always bi-amp with SS on the bottom and tubes on the mid/high side.

Where you see a possible problem, I see a solution that requires another purchase ;-)

How many people would you guess bi amp SS/tube?
I would think a good tube system could really lay down some warm full bass.
Then again I have never been a fan of the slamming...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

How many people would you guess bi amp SS/tube?
I would think a good tube system could really lay down some warm full bass.
Then again I have never been a fan of the slamming...

It's common enough that I've read about it in several threads on other forums.   I agree that a powerful tube amp would be sufficient.  But if you are going to do something like biamp, its more economical to put SS to the bass cabinets.  Tube amps powerful enough to control a difficult speaker load are expensive.

I regularly don't play my system loud.  But when I have, I noticed a difference in lower end control when I replaced the MF2300 with the Premier 11a driving the CS2s.   The 2300 would double down and it could really push some air.   It's was nice to have that reserve.   With the new speakers it's not so much an issue.

I've got a hardon for bi-amping lately because I've never tried it and my new speakers will allow it.   For half the price of another premier 11a,  I could get a matching CJ SS amp with greater power reserve.   So that is influencing my thinking.

[BCostigan]

You can always bi-amp with SS on the bottom and tubes on the mid/high side.

I actually did wonder if I could do that and haven't investigated yet.  Are one set of binding posts connected to the "high end" and the other the "low".  Just wanna be sure sparks aren't gonna fly before I connect them.  (Time to pull the jumpers and break out the continuity tester)

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

yes, if your speaker can be bi-wired (or tri-wired) with the upper and lower modules completely segregated electrically, then you can drive each part with it's own amp.   Usually people use a cross over ahead of the two amps to split the signal and band limit the feed to each amp.  My speaker's user manual suggests bi-amping with the full range signal running to each amp. 

look at this site http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

[Daryan]

Again, get a class D amplifier, the performance to cost ratio is just great!  That said, the good tube amps I have heard haven't lacked bass.  Bass to me is more of a room issue than an amplifier issue!

D

[BobW]

You can always bi-amp with SS on the bottom and tubes on the mid/high side.

Where you see a possible problem, I see a solution that requires another purchase ;-)

Unless you find an old Dynaco ST120 in the garage.   
Or a Hafler.

Don't expect a 3 wpc SET amp to give you solid, fundamental bass.
But a 40 to 60 watt tube amp will rattle windows with a typical 90db sensitivity full range speaker.
Tonality will vary with design. Some sound warm and round, some amps are cleaner and tighter.
It's not the tubes, but the overall design.

FWIW, I have a few older transistor amps that are warm and round, and not at delicious in the bass department.
They have a different "roundness" than tubes, and it isn't my favorite amp sound.