Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5

[IronFilm]

I just discovered the 3M and 6M models. I read the Comparison on sounddevices.com and the 3M and 6M are for recording concerts, whereas the 3 and 6 are for Video use. Is that correct?

 My understanding is that the M versions are more geared to M-usicians recording their own music and/or using a DAW. Why they are $100 less and yet it costs $100 extra for the software to be added to a regular MixPre6 is what I can’t figure out. Not that I’ve tried very hard to find out.

Because the M versions miss out on a bit more than just the Music add on software. For instance the M versions can never ever do TC, for some people that would be a very big loss indeed. Thus the cheaper price.

[zorba]

If I understand, in advanced mode frontal knobs act as fader and don't control channel's gain. I prefer to have gains control, is it possible to set a custom mode for controlling the gain with frontal knobs?

[Gordon]

If I understand, in advanced mode frontal knobs act as fader and don't control channel's gain. I prefer to have gains control, is it possible to set a custom mode for controlling the gain with frontal knobs?

custom mode, everything advanced except gain to basic.

[zorba]

custom mode, everything advanced except gain to basic.

Ok, thanks. I do not understand the utility of this dual stage control. I suppose that the frontal knob may control the gain in a simple way.

[junkyardt]

custom mode, everything advanced except gain to basic.

Ok, thanks. I do not understand the utility of this dual stage control. I suppose that the frontal knob may control the gain in a simple way.

I think setting gain mode to advanced and having the knobs act as faders is more for podcasters and people who need to balance several channels in an overall L-R mix on the fly. wouldn't really be useful for concert taping. also, I would add that in custom mode you could consider setting outputs to basic unless you actually need the outputs for some reason. i'll probably hardly ever use them so i set them to basic.

[aaronji]

^ I use advanced mode. I set the levels based on the overload point of the mics, with some extra gain based on how loud I expect the show to be (but generally a little conservative). An advantage of doing it this way is that you have a hold function of sorts; if you jostle the knobs, you only affect the mix.

In custom mode (basic gain), the knobs actually control some mix of pre- and post-fade gain. SD confirmed this to be the case, but was kind of cagey about the details...

[rippleish20]

I also use advanced mode - it's not clear to me what is happening when you use custom mode to have the channel knobs control gain. I route two channels (of the four I typically record) to the output (post fader)  for streaming and only use the channel knobs to increase the volume going to the output.

I like to understand how things work. In advanced mode, there are two gain stages. The knob on the side is used to set the trim level for the ISOs (at the PRE, pre-fader) and the channel knobs control a secondary gain stage, the level of the channels going into the L/R mix (fader). Are these two different analog gain stages, is one of them a digital gain, etc? When you set the mode to custom and everything to advanced except gain, this brings it down to one gain stage and ISOs are written post fader. But what does this mean? Is the channel knob controlling the analog PRE trim level or is it a digital gain that happens after the PRE's? I owned a F8 prior to the Mixpre and it came with a schematic. In A F8 the fader is a secondary gain stage after the the sound has left the PRE.

[aaronji]

^ Based on several e-mails with SD, there are definitely two gain stages: 76 dB at the pre and 20 dB at the fader. They weren't super specific, but my interpretation of their responses is that the pre gain is analog and the fader gain is digital (or, at least, mostly so). In custom mode, with basic gain, they confirmed that it is a mix of the two stages, but wouldn't say where the digital portion kicked in. They did say that, due to their pre/ADC architecture, the analog and digital gain would be indistinguishable both audibly and visually (on the waveform). Not sure if that helps or not!

[willndmb]

Maybe it's just me but this thing seems so complex that's it's total overkill for what we do, no?
I don't understand why or why not I would want the 6 vs 6m either

[morst]

Maybe it's just me but this thing seems so complex that's it's total overkill for what we do, no?
I don't understand why or why not I would want the 6 vs 6m either

They're not  made for "what we do," they are made to sell! SD made something marketed mainly for podcasters, but which happens to work for "what we do."


I am thinking that I might like having the gain controls "hidden" now that I have some idea what I'm going for!??! Since I don't record L,R Mix, it would function like a partial "hold" feature, though it would not prevent the stop button from getting pressed, on the machine or on Wingman!?

[Paul Isaacs]

Maybe it's just me but this thing seems so complex that's it's total overkill for what we do, no?
I don't understand why or why not I would want the 6 vs 6m either

Basically the M models operate like a DAW (Protools, Logic etc) where you can track, overdub, punch in/out, export/import, metronome, add effects etc.
The non 'M' models operates like a traditional field recorder i.e. where you capture individual recordings, i.e. no overdubbing.

These two ways of operating require fundamentally different record/playback engines. The M models need to be able to record and playback simultaneously.

For those who want both modes of operation (e.g. if you do a bit of field recording and a bit of music creation), you can buy the non-M models and buy a plugin to get the 'M' DAW-like functionality.

Paul

[rippleish20]

^ Based on several e-mails with SD, there are definitely two gain stages: 76 dB at the pre and 20 dB at the fader. They weren't super specific, but my interpretation of their responses is that the pre gain is analog and the fader gain is digital (or, at least, mostly so). In custom mode, with basic gain, they confirmed that it is a mix of the two stages, but wouldn't say where the digital portion kicked in. They did say that, due to their pre/ADC architecture, the analog and digital gain would be indistinguishable both audibly and visually (on the waveform). Not sure if that helps or not!

Thank you. All of this in line with what I've read but, in the end, it's not really clear exactly whats going on.
 

[Johannes]

Thank you. All of this in line with what I've read but, in the end, it's not really clear exactly whats going on.

At the end it does not matter at all. The noise level of this unit is so low and the limiter so good that no matter how you set your gain: your recording will be usable ;-)

Johannes

[dogmusic]

Thank you. All of this in line with what I've read but, in the end, it's not really clear exactly whats going on.

At the end it does not matter at all. The noise level of this unit is so low and the limiter so good that no matter how you set your gain: your recording will be usable ;-)

Johannes

This is why I have previously suggested that there is actually no analog gain control but that setting levels is always post ADC.

[borjam]

This is why I have previously suggested that there is actually no analog gain control but that setting levels is always post ADC.

They say it quite clear. The maximum analog gain is 75 dB. And indeed, with the gain control set to "advanced" you have access to the
analog preamplifier gain.

If you apply gain with the fader then you are applying digital gain. And you can achieve a maximum of 96 dB from microphone to recording.