Author Topic: Split omnis??? (Read 12802 times)

Swampy · « **on:** July 31, 2003, 12:26:06 PM »

Does anyone know of a thread on ts.com or another website with info on using omnis??? THANKS!

dmonterisi · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:30:59 PM »

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=3536

-damon

Swampy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:38:50 PM »

Thanks man, Im asking because Im into home recording and I've got some Behringer omnis that I use and Ive been thinking about trying them in the field for shits and giggles, but I dont even know it will work. I dont know how far I should split them ect...

dmonterisi · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:40:27 PM »

disclaimer-i've never run omnis before...however, i'd gues that if you're going to try em out with a 2 set show, do first set at 4 foot split, second set at 6-8 and see what you think.

twoodruff · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:44:45 PM »

when damon gets that 2nd u89 omnis oplenty

dmonterisi · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:50:46 PM »

i'm even more excited about subcards since i run mainly indoors...i need to track down the 2nd by next friday (when i leave for cali) so i can run u89's for Greyboy Allstars on 8/15 at 9:30...go mano a mano on the same stand with sideshowbob's tubes!

-damon

Swampy · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:50:49 PM »

Now that I think of it, I don't have windscreens for them, so I dont know if I can even do this. I do have some big ratshack windscreens that I could rubberband to the omnis, do you think that would work???

jlykos · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:52:30 PM »

You don't really need windscreens for omnis. They don't hurt, but are not absolutely necessary.

Swampy · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:54:29 PM »

Quote from: jlykos on July 31, 2003, 12:52:30 PM

You don't really need windscreens for omnis. They don't hurt, but are not absolutely necessary.

Really??? You dont need screens at all? Its pretty drafty out today...

jlykos · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2003, 12:59:25 PM »

Then use the Radio Shack windscreens that you do have. Omnis are far less suceptible to wind rumble than other mics. Hypers are the most, followed by cards. I ran with el cheapo MG screens for first night of GOTV where it was pretty windy and there is little wind noise on those tapes. Phasing is another issue.

If it is pretty windy out there, have a closer spacing with the mics(under 4 feet) and run them a bit lower (around head height) to somewhat mitigate the phasing effect.

Swampy · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2003, 01:07:25 PM »

Cool man, thanks for the advice! Its not too windy, just drafty enough that I think screens might be nessisary. If Im gonna run at ~ 4 feet apart how high do you think I should run??? THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!!

Swampy · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2003, 01:36:52 PM »

Alright, so here is what I think Im gonna do, tell me if I have this right: 2 omnis 4 feet apart at about 7 feet high, slightly pointed towards stacks. Does this sound good? THANKS!

Swampy · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:09:19 PM »

I have another question... If it rains Im gonna put an umbrella up, so what is the closest to each other that you'd ever run omnis???

Wes · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:12:57 PM »

I've got a bar that I use to split omnis 15". I have gotten some good results. IMO you should space at least a foot to help seperate the channels, but I have heard 6" split omni tapes that sound pretty good too.

Swampy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:16:44 PM »

Quote from: jbandtheboys on July 31, 2003, 02:12:57 PM

I've got a bar that I use to split omnis 15". I have gotten some good results. IMO you should space at least a foot to help seperate the channels, but I have heard 6" split omni tapes that sound pretty good too.

Ok, because I was thinking, if it rains Id like to have everything on one stand, and under 1 umbrella. My stereo bar goes 8 inches so that would be ok right???

Wes · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:24:44 PM »

whats a J-disk?

Swampy · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:24:51 PM »

Mike, in the future I deffinatly will look into the J disc, but I don't think I'll be able to swing it in the next few hours. Thanks for your help!

Swampy · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:26:04 PM »

Quote from: jbandtheboys on July 31, 2003, 02:24:44 PM

whats a J-disk?

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=800

Swampy · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2003, 02:33:46 PM »

Quote from: mfrench on July 31, 2003, 02:28:00 PM

Sorry..........
Didn't realize that this was such a short term need.
+T and good luck.

I'm shutting up now.......

dOOd, there is nothing to be sorry about, you've been VERY helpful!!!!!!!!! T+

wbrisette · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2003, 06:10:21 AM »

Quote from: AlexHerd on July 31, 2003, 01:36:52 PM

Alright, so here is what I think Im gonna do, tell me if I have this right: 2 omnis 4 feet apart at about 7 feet high, slightly pointed towards stacks. Does this sound good? THANKS!

I found 4 feet to leave a little too much opening in my recordings, so I brought that down to 1 metre (about 3 feet).

Wayne

nickgregory · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2003, 08:50:16 AM »

I am listening through Jamie Lykos' ABB from GOTV right now and it is a 3' spread, and it sounds nice. There are a couple of very slight phasing issues (must have been a bit windy), but nothing bad...just where the lower end gets a little muddy for a brief second...but it sounds great. 3' may be a good place to start.

Swampy · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2003, 09:36:05 AM »

THANKS for the suggestions! I didn't get to try it last night because it was waaaaaay to rainy and I didn't want to have 2 stands with umbrellas on them blocking everybody's view, so I just flew my regular mics. Maybe I'll try omnis next month at the free Rusted Root/Jazz Mandolin show.

wbrisette · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2003, 02:43:17 PM »

Have you considered running one stand? I use one stand with a horizontal bar I built to place 4 mics on a single stand. See:
http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/stand/homebrew.html.

This same process can be used for just two mics. You might want to consider this.

Wayne

Swampy · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2003, 03:11:45 PM »

GREAT GREAT IDEA man, off to the hardware store

If I can get this to work outdoors then I will me mucho happy, T+ for the site!

Tim · « **Reply #24 on:** August 01, 2003, 03:52:31 PM »

try the Healy method (go to the Oade site) if you want to run on one stand. I'll get my Phish KC tapes out this week that were done this way.

Swampy · « **Reply #25 on:** August 01, 2003, 06:08:07 PM »

Quote from: Tim on August 01, 2003, 03:52:31 PM

try the Healy method (go to the Oade site) if you want to run on one stand. I'll get my Phish KC tapes out this week that were done this way.

So this is basicly like how your ears would be right?

Swampy · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2003, 05:45:54 PM »

anyone? ^^^

Lee · « **Reply #27 on:** August 03, 2003, 07:46:10 PM »

Quote from: m0k3 on August 02, 2003, 06:53:36 PM

yep.......sort of..... Your ears are baffled by your head though.

some of us more than others...

Chuck · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2003, 11:15:36 AM »

Alex:

I made a spacer that holds both mics on one stand and separates them 26-28". I've had good results with that spacing outdoors pointing the mics at the outside of the PA stacks. I've got a good dead2003-07-06 recording I could send. No hole in the middle. Just that nice accurate omni sound. Believe it or not, the separation between the channels is good. Of course it isn't as good as cardioids run ORTF or DIN, but to me it sounds very natural.

plucks · « **Reply #29 on:** August 04, 2003, 03:52:59 PM »

One thing to watch out for with omni's is loosing the phantom middle section. Often the vocals are sent to the middle of the sound field, while the instruments are spread throughout. If the mics are spread too far for the type of venue, you can loose the middle and have a lot of separation...this can sometimes leave the tapes sounding a little thin compared to what you are used to hearing with hypers/cards.

2-3 foot spread is commonly a good spacing, however, more can lead to just as good if not better results if angled properly.

Phil

Rob D. · « **Reply #30 on:** August 05, 2003, 12:35:48 PM »

Thanks for info, Phil and everyone else! However, I'm not clear as to what Phil means when he says "angled properly"? Since they're omnis and (for the most part) not directional. I bought some KA100 caps a few months ago and it seems that perfect situation to use them keeps escaping me! Anyway, when used outdoors in a large venue, would a '3 spread be optimal or should I go more like 4' to 6'? Thanks for all the advice!

plucks · « **Reply #31 on:** August 05, 2003, 04:00:52 PM »

Quote from: m0k3 on August 05, 2003, 12:40:58 PM

Omnis ARE sensitive to direction, there is just no off-axis attenuation.

Exactly!
It is ok to still point them to the outside of the stacks, middle, inside, depending on what you like

Phil