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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: acidjack on February 12, 2012, 06:25:39 PM
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I'm not the most up to date on these things, so maybe everyone here already knows about it, but I find this: http://rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/ way more useful than a Squeezebox.
Can stream *anything* on your computer audio-wise to various devices, including Apple Airports, which I already was using.
Tested it out today - I can now master from Audacity on my living room speakers without having to physically plug in my computer. Can also stream Spotify, etc.
Pretty great tool. I guess you do not have the remotes like you have with the Squeezebox, but at $25 for the program and $100 for an Airport, it seems like a much better deal.
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will the airfoil do "gapless" FLAC playback on something like an Apple TV?
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I'm "still" using SB because Airfoil + Airport doesn't bring anything new to the table for me -- I can already listen to PC-based or streaming content -- and it would cost me money to switch systems. If one is just starting out, doesn't care about the remote, and is happy to send an analog or optical signal to the primary playback, Airport + Airfoil seems like it would work.
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That seems like an interesting solution for some situations. Does it require itunes? No linux support :(
It seems like I'll be using the squeezebox for many years to come. It is an open platform, and that is important to me.
For mastering type work, whether on speakers or cans, I really feel I must have a volume knob I can turn. PC based volume control is way too cumbersome. When something is too loud, i want to be able to turn the knob down Now. Nothing else works as quickly or as well for me.
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I also did not see linux support nor do i have/want a router.
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also the airport is limited to 16bit 44.1kHz. Everything over that is truncated and resampled.
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nor do i have/want a router.
Huh? You mean you plug your one and only computer directly into your cable/DSL modem?
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nor do i have/want a router.
Huh? You mean you plug your one and only computer directly into your cable/DSL modem?
switch maybe? I have a router and a gigabit switch cause I have way too many things connected via ethernet ;)
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nor do i have/want a router.
Huh? You mean you plug your one and only computer directly into your cable/DSL modem?
switch maybe? I have a router and a gigabit switch cause I have way too many things connected via ethernet ;)
How did that Unit work out for you??? I lost some money on that 'cause I'm lazy... I hope you took advantage! Why does my ass hurt???
Terry
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How did that Unit work out for you??? I lost some money on that 'cause I'm lazy... I hope you took advantage! Why does my ass hurt???
Terry
I've had a sb duet for years that I love! got a 5 tb server set up and couldn't be happier with everything. if you'll remember I bought the one from you for a friends home server set up I built for him. thanks again for the great deal! I know you're ass hurts but at least the sb is actually getting used ;)
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How did that Unit work out for you??? I lost some money on that 'cause I'm lazy... I hope you took advantage! Why does my ass hurt???
Terry
I've had a sb duet for years that I love! got a 5 tb server set up and couldn't be happier with everything. if you'll remember I bought the one from you for a friends home server set up I built for him. thanks again for the great deal! I know you're ass hurts but at least the sb is actually getting used ;)
I'll get you back one day when I crash on your floor for an Asheville Show...
Terry
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The Squeezeboxes also use good quality DACs (Wolfson or Burr-Brown depending on model, if I recall correctly)...
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nor do i have/want a router.
Huh? You mean you plug your one and only computer directly into your cable/DSL modem?
switch maybe? I have a router and a gigabit switch cause I have way too many things connected via ethernet ;)
You'd still need a router to keep from putting multiple devices on the public segment which won't work.
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nor do i have/want a router.
Huh? You mean you plug your one and only computer directly into your cable/DSL modem?
haha. no I mean the AIRPORT router. :P 8)
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I am curious how you folks do all of this in your home:
You have:
1. Internet
2. Music server (squeezebox, or whatever)
3. Movie/TV server (Roku/AppleTV, etc...)
How is your network set up? Do you have 3 different channels to optimize bandwidth for what you are serving (data, music, or video content)? How do you keep INterent bandwidth at optimal speed while doing this other stuff, and not have conflicting networks?
Do they all access the same NAS drive and Internet port?
Thanks for any info.
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The bandwidth is easy - I use wires for high quality media.
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I just use 802.11n and let the bits fall where they may so to speak.
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everything is hard wired here with cat 5e (squeezebox and my western digital live don't do cat 6) through a gigabit switch. never an issue with bandwidth. I stream hd content etc while running multiple torrents from the same server.
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I use 75 ohm from the cable company run through the wall to connect my music server PC (Macbook> Firewire Audiophile) to the DAC in the living room. I find hard wired connections to be more secure than wireless. I do, however, stream over my wifi to a less critical Airport Express in the kitchen.
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That seems like an interesting solution for some situations. Does it require itunes? No linux support :(
It seems like I'll be using the squeezebox for many years to come. It is an open platform, and that is important to me.
For mastering type work, whether on speakers or cans, I really feel I must have a volume knob I can turn. PC based volume control is way too cumbersome. When something is too loud, i want to be able to turn the knob down Now. Nothing else works as quickly or as well for me.
No iTunes. It can stream virtually *any* audio playing on your computer.
I had a Squeezebox for a month and hated it. One of the worst devices I have owned; terrible software integration, completely deficient menu structure.. it just sucked.
Plus Airfoil allows me to play my raw files wirelessly through my speakers, which for me is huge..
EDIT TO ADD: Wired would obviously be preferable. But not really an option for me. I rent, for one thing.
EDIT TO FURTHER ADD: The way I stream, my Airports are connected optically to my amps. So the DACs I am using are what are in the amps, not what is in the Airport (right?)
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:yikes: This squeezebox thread keeps running this song through my head.
"Squeeze Box" by The Who
Mama's got a squeeze box
She wears on her chest
And when Daddy comes home
He never gets no rest
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night
Well the kids don't eat
And the dog can't sleep
There's no escape from the music
In the whole damn street
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night
She goes in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out
Cause' she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night
She goes, squeeze me, come on and squeeze me
Come on and tease me like you do
I'm so in love with you
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night
She goes in and out and in and out and in and out and in and out
'Cause she's playing all night
And the music's all right
Mama's got a squeeze box
Daddy never sleeps at night
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EDIT TO FURTHER ADD:
The way I stream, my Airports are connected optically to my amps. So the DACs I am using are what are in the amps, not what is in the Airport (right?)
Still limited to 16/44.1 on that optical jack.
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EDIT TO FURTHER ADD:
The way I stream, my Airports are connected optically to my amps. So the DACs I am using are what are in the amps, not what is in the Airport (right?)
Still limited to 16/44.1 on that optical jack.
Is that accurate?
The digital output on my iMac and Macbook both support 24 bit up to 96k resolution. From apple:
S/PDIF optical digital output
The S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) optical digital output is automatically selected when an S/PDIF optical digital output device is detected on the external combination audio port. The S/PDIF optical digital output supports pulse-code modulation (PCM) and Arc Consistency Algorithm #3 (AC-3) audio formats with the following stereo data stream characteristics:
PCM: 16, 20, or 24 bits per sample at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96 kHz
AC-3: 16 bits per sample at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, 176.4 kHz, or 192 kHz
The S/PDIF optical output channel status conforms to International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) 60958-3 consumer mode digital audio.
Seems odd they would limit the airport to 16 bits. I don't know why they'd want to develop 2 different designs, and purposely make the airport inferior. Can you point me to where you're finding this?
I guess I need to verify the 24 bit capability, but I'll definitely look into this. I loved (and still do) my Squeezebox 2, but my Squeezebox Duet drives me pretty insane. It pretty much never is ready to work when I want to listen to music -- can't even keep its battery charged while sitting in the charger, and if it is charged everytime I turn around it needs to update the firmware on the Duet remote or update the slimserver software on the computer.
Airfoil and an airport express seems like it would work good for me.
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Well, I had found nothing about it on the apple site, but the conventional wisdom seems to be that the airport express is limited to 16/44.
That said, most of the in-depths posts I read about it seemed to say the AE is limited to 16/44 since it is limited to receiving audio via iTunes, and iTunes apparently only allows a 16/44 format.
This of course makes me wonder a few things:
1) When I use iTunes to listen to music directly off my iMac (which has an optical out that supports 24 bits), do this mean iTunes is truncating my music to 16 bits? Usually I listed using something like Cog, but sometimes I use iTunes. Or is the 16/44 limitation only for wirelessly streamed iTunes? (Or is that charge about 16/44 even accurate?)
2) Acidjack says Airfoil allows wireless streaming without iTunes. So is the supposed 16/44 limitation to Airport Express accurate? As in, does the hardware itself of the AE limit the optical out to 16/44, or is this 16/44 limitation everyone talks about a limitation of iTunes, which people are saying is the only way to stream to an AE. Since that latter part seems to be wrong and Airfoil allows streaming, maybe that allows the AE to work at 24bits (as in the AE 16/24 limitation is a iTunes software limitation, not an AE hardware limitation).
Maybe I'm just being hopeful since I'd like a cheap alternative to replace my Squeezebox Duet, but I keep seeing people say the AE 16/44 is due to iTunes.
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The Macs output 24/96 over spdif optical jacks. The Airport Express truncates everything to 16 and resamples everything to 44.1, and is not bit accurate for 16/44.1 files. It's fine for non critical background music in my kitchen.
But for the main rig I use wires.
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The claim of AE not being bit-accurate is false according to testing by Stereophile:
http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/505apple
Some audiophiles have dissed the AirPort Express on the grounds that its digital output is not bit-accurate. However, I found that this was not the case, that the data appearing on the AE's digital output were identical in the original file. ... The files were bit-for-bit identical, proving that the AirPort Express is transparent to the music data.
That article, along with a number of others I came across discussed the 16/44 limitations of the AE as being linked to the similar limitations of iTunes. It looks like it probably is limited to 16bits, but if anyone has a Airfoil and AE setup and can actually test the AE using Airfoil and not iTunes to stream to the AE.
Acidjack -- you game for an experiment? Airfoil streaming > AE > USBPre 2 toslink digital input > spdif RCA out > R44. Record a 24bit file and see if it truly is 24 bits (I think there are several software programs and plugins that can do this).
Edit:
The Bitter AU and VST free plugin looks like one way to look into actual bit depth, if anyone is inclined to an old-fashioned experiment:
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=33
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I'm using my Squeezebox right now. Beer in hand, Lauderdale on the stereo (mp3). Used it this morning to check some mixdowns I did (wav) -- no more putting them on my iRiver and running back and forth. Used it the other day to stream some 24/96 Dead show.
I love the thing.
Cold, dead hands...and all that stuff.
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I had a Squeezebox for a month and hated it. One of the worst devices I have owned; terrible software integration, completely deficient menu structure.. it just sucked.
Agreed on above points.
But I still love my Squeezebox touch. It does exactly what I need, works well, is really convenient, and didn't cost a lot. I'm always open to other ideas so thanks for this suggestion.
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Tested it out today - I can now master from Audacity on my living room speakers without having to physically plug in my computer.
I built a similar setup today. MAC, Airport Express, Airfoil 4.5, Audacity. The first problem I noted was a distinct delay between starting the transport (playback) and the sound coming out of the speakers. About 2 seconds. I checked the Rogue Amoeba - Airport knowledge base. There is an inherent 2 second delay in the apple protocol. They had to build a special video player to sync up with the audio. So, I tried a couple times to edit and just was going nuts. I was trying to identify the start of a song (live recording) to cut the tracks. The two second delay totally befuddled my sensibilities in where to set the cursor. Darn!! Guess it is back to the 50 foot headphone extension to plug it into the home stereo (nothing fancy here, record with a Tascam USB-800 off an old board and mix down on my couch with audacity.)
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This looks quite promising -- http://www.whitebear.ch/mediaserver -- basically, a upnp/dnla interface that allows one to push content to a squeezebox player without using the squeezebox software on a pc. For me, it should allow me to treat my squeezebox as another output/playback zone from my jriver media center.