Topic: CAD e70 - Great Budget Mic's (Samples Inside)

[robotaper]

Can't believe I missed these guys.  Good stuff.

Your recording sounds pretty nice imho.  Nice work matching your sources.  Did you do most of the heavy lifting with Audacity?

[Neilyboy]

I used nothing but audacity.. It is my first matrix mix so I was happy with it... You should have rolled with us rob! we bought a cheap shit motel for the night and hit up a few places right after the show. you should have seen the looks i got while carrying my gear through a few of those bars at 1am...

glad you dig it..
neil

[ArchivalAudio]

A phase difference is a time delay in this situation.  What is commonly referred to as "phase reversal" is actually polarity.  Two mics can have opposite polarity without a time (phase) difference--for example, two close mics on either side of a drum.  A polarity reverse switch is sometimes used to try a fix a phase problem; it can be a partial solution but it's no substitute for fixing the problem.

Speed of sound at sea level = 340m/sec or 1105ft/sec.  The rule of thumb is 1 msec delay for 1ft.  Close enough for goverment work, but at long distances it's probably worth getting a bit more accurate.  For example, 41msec for 45 feet, or 43msec in Denver    Of course you have to know the distance accurately . . .

I would err on the side of SBD in front a bit, because it contains less reverberent information (which you want to come later).

Jon,
thanx again for your clarification on these matters.

are you saying that you would actually place the soundboard first in time in the mix - so in effect there would be a delay in the audience mics? or am I not understanding your comment about reverberant information?

--Ian

[illconditioned]

Ideally you line everything up.  However, due to differences in the various signals, it's not usually possible to achieve anything close to sample alignment.  If you are able to line up within 1 or 2 msec, you'd be happy.

Given that framework and the window of uncertainty, I am suggesting you put the SBD at the beginning of that window.

Another thing to consider is that you're likely to rely more heavily on SBD if the hall or your location in the hall is bad.  That might mean the AUD mics are picking up first reflections that are nearly coincident with the direct sound.  That's bad; it can sound like mush.  In that case, you might consider purposely pushing (or keeping) the SBD in front of the AUD and turning down the AUD a bit as well.

Your ears will ignore any reflections that arrive a few msec after the direct sound, and reflections that arrive after 40msec or so will sound like pleasant reverb.  It's those reflections in between that you have to worry about.

I think there are different approaches to this.

What I've often done is put the aud/mics a few ms *before* the soundboard.  My idea is that, even with added soundboard, it should still sound like an aud/mics recording.  Just a better one.  If I hear soundboard only, it sounds unnatural to my ears.  I want it to sound like it was really recorded in the room.  I've also tried adding reverb to the soundboard, to make it sound like it was in the room.  Then mixing this with the aud/mics.

In summary, I'm using the soundboard for its clarity (no pa distortion, higher vocal levels).  But I want it to still sound like a plausible aud/mics recording.

 Richard

[rjp]

Has anyone tried the AKG Perception 150/170 small condensor yet?  --> may be similar, but with better quality control (I hope).

I have a pair of 170s (bought as individual units - they aren't sold in pairs). So far, I've only run them at my church, from the balcony, sometimes vanilla NOS, and sometimes using as wide a spacing as possible using a K&M 235-1 stereo bar, with the mics pointed directly at the front corners. I've been very happy with the results either way.

I put a short sample up in this post.

[chris319]

I hate to be the naysayer....but I'm a dealer for CAD/Astatic and have still yet to hear a mic by that company worth anything more than change I can find in my couch. Crappy quality, crappy sound. Cheap, yes. If that's what you are looking for, you have found it with the CAD's.

Have you heard or used the e70? If not then I'm not comfortable with your blanket statement. I have shot out the e70 against several other mics and I'm happy with the way it sounds.

[jim1274]

I hate to be the naysayer....but I'm a dealer for CAD/Astatic and have still yet to hear a mic by that company worth anything more than change I can find in my couch. Crappy quality, crappy sound. Cheap, yes. If that's what you are looking for, you have found it with the CAD's.

So, something like this version that is cherry-picked, burned-in, retested, etc. is still crap?  I stumbled upon this version by chance and was wondering if it might make a good utility mic for the  mic locker.  Seems too good to be true given the price.

http://www.audioproz.com/AP.php?Article=51&Tab=Home


A Short Note Concerning our CAD e70 Microphones   (Update)   Oct 5th, 2009
These CAD e70 microphones are simply amazing! Simply put, they will compete with any similar design on the market at any price. Vince has compared them at the test bench against the fanciest stuff out there, including Neumann and AKG. Since they are a higher output mic, the self noise can read slightly higher off the spec report, but the extra 4 to 6dB of output signal level easily makes up for this self noise. The e70 is a better mic with wider bandwidth and truly does 20Hz to 20kHz! It is a favorite for acoustic instruments, especially large body guitars, upright bass, and drums. The quality of low end definition is remarkable, picking up more pluck and deep thump of sonic impact than most vintage mics, which in fact have limited low frequency response. (Just read the manufacturers’ specs data and it will be obvious that bass roll off occurs below 100Hz to 70Hz in most older mics.) Be aware that microphones which truly pick up such deep bass can also be more sensitive to room noise, rumble from street noise, etc. With this in mind, the e70 comes equipped with pads and roll-off switches to limit its sonic pickup to sound more similar to vintage mics if desired. We QC all these microphones on the bench and cherry pick only the very best. Typically 80% pass high quality spec. We then “burn in” the microphone and retest to guarantee you get only the highest quality, super spec microphone possible. We will compete with any legitimate prices, but only AudioPro can guarantee a super spec microphone for the absurdly low price of $125! We understand that this may be about $25 more than the cheapest street price, but keep in mind that ours have been professionally tested at the bench and come guaranteed. Thank you for your support!

Also, be aware that two versions of the e70 exist. One version has a thin gold ring around the cardioid capsule; the other does not have the ring. According to the spec sheet, the version without the ring has a slight bass roll off below 50Hz. It’s only 5dB down at 20Hz, so it isn’t too crucial. For an additional $30 we will use our equipment to make sure you get a matched pair of mics.

[ArchivalAudio]

^^^^ looks like a nice deal
any one ever deal with these guys before?
125  + 125+ 30  = 280 for a burned in matched pair...
sounds like a great deal

or pick up a street priced pair and burn them in yourself

--Ian

[jim1274]

^^^^ looks like a nice deal
any one ever deal with these guys before?
125  + 125+ 30  = 280 for a burned in matched pair...
sounds like a great deal

or pick up a street priced pair and burn them in yourself

--Ian

Would be interesting to hear rokpunk comment.  Are they crappy across the board to his mind or more of a quality control thing.  I still am wary of the mics due to the low price, but there are some pretty respectable inexpensive chinese mics out there--own more than a couple myself.   Others have had good results, but are these really much better than other similar priced mics?  I'm still not jumping on the bandwagon and buying a pair.

I could not find anything on TS about audioproz.  Perused their web site for a while and it was kind of a hodge-podge to me. 

[Neilyboy]

Watch around on ebay. Heck I snagged my pair for 99bucks shipped for the pair. very well worth it if you ask me

Neil

[ArchivalAudio]

^^^^ then maybe it's only $125 + 30 = 155 for the burned in matched pair...
I wonder about any kind of internal electronics / wire  mods that could be done to make 'em even better?
--Ian

[jim1274]

Watch around on ebay. Heck I snagged my pair for 99bucks shipped for the pair. very well worth it if you ask me

Neil

There is a single one on ebay now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAD-E70-PENCIL-CONDENSER-MIC_W0QQitemZ200415598479QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea9b3578f

[chris319]

Would be interesting to hear rokpunk comment.

Would be interesting to hear if rokpunk has ever actually heard or used an e70.

I've owned three. One suffered a horrible death by modification but the capsules remained intact. Of the three capsules (both omni and cardioid) two were pretty close in frequency response and one was not. Now I have two good e70s with polystyrene capacitors replacing the stock ceramics. I have shot them out against many other mics and am thoroughly pleased with them; however, they may sound too bright for some applications. Given the price tag, I'm very, very pleased with them. I've also shot out AKG Perception 150s and they are likewise very capable mics, coming in a close second.

[chris319]

Someone asked about the capacitor mod on another board and I gave him this caveat:

You will probably need to file down the black plastic piece attached to the end of the PC board ever so slightly in order to get the guts back inside the mic body. Just file a very small amount off the surface between where the two screws are and the angled part. If it doesn't fit, file some more off until it does. We're talking about maybe 1/64th of an inch or less. DO NOT under any circumstances try to force it back in. It will fit after a very small amount of filing.

[Neilyboy]

good tip chris (although I have yet to attempt the mod myself) I have thought about it. I am always afraid of breaking them haha..

Neil