Topic: Advice please.

[thespangleman]

Hi all,

I have an Edirol R-09 and a Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-8 mini battery module. I have been using Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 binaural mics connected through the battery module (bass roll-off 69Hz), and into the line-in of the R-09, set on low gain, low cut 'off' and AGC 'off'. I've been using this set up to record mainly rock concerts but have been less than happy with the results. Could anyone please tell me where I might be going wrong, or recommend mics that would be more suited to my needs. I have a budget of around $150-$200.

Thanks in advance,

Barry.

[powermonkey]

Hard to judge without hearing samples, but the settings you're using all seem fine, depending on what level you're running the R09 at. I'd suggest running in 24bit, then you can keep the levels a little lower and raise them in post.

I think location is probably the most important thing, though. Getting close to the sweet spot of the venue is key ( in front of the soundboard seems the place to be).

The folks around here know more than I do, so they'll chip in sooner or later.

Hope that helps a bit.

[stantheman1976]

Getting in the right spot is important.  You'll notice the soundboard, when possible, is normally located directly in center a certain distance from the stage.  This is so the sound person can hear from both sides and judge the mix accurately.  With mono house mixes you can also stand in line with one stack since you're getting the same thing from both PA's. 

Maybe cardioid mics would be a better option.  They seem to have a more natural sound to me than binaural and are generally more forgiving than omni or binaural.

[Belexes]

I'd go with cardoid mics, but to each their own.  You may want to check out Church Audio mics as they are in your price range.  See the retail thread and samples can be found if you use the search function of the board and in Team Church Audio.

[sunjan]

I have an Edirol R-09 and a Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-8 mini battery module. I have been using Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 binaural mics connected through the battery module (bass roll-off 69Hz), and into the line-in of the R-09, set on low gain, low cut 'off' and AGC 'off'. I've been using this set up to record mainly rock concerts but have been less than happy with the results.

Can you tell us what you're not happy with? Too much crowd chatter? Not enough bass, too much bass, etc..?

Did you open your WAVs in a sound editor to look at the waveforms? Does the peak go all the way up, or will it sound better if you boost the levels in post?

Without hearing your stuff, I'd go with Stan and Belexes. Binaurals are tricky to get right, they require you to be in the sweet spot and no noisy crowd.

Possible upgrades? Consider the Church cards. There are more options if you're willing to go non-stealth, but judging from your rig I guess that's not your game?!

/J

[Dede2002]

The SP-TFB-2 was my first mic. It's not bad. But appreciate the fact that the TFB-2 is designed for true binaural recording technique ( mics are placed inside the ear, facing outwards). So they can capture an amazing amount of chat and can be nasty of the lower frequencies if you're not in THE sweet spot. Plus, binaural recordings are not very pleasant to hear through speakers in my experience. They sound great with earphones on the other side.
I'm very happy with both MM HLSC-1 (Sennheiser MKE 4 -card) and MM-HLSO (Sennheiser MKE 2 -omni). A little more $$ than you want to spend ( $250) but great mics anyway.
My 2 cents. Hope that helps.

[willyp523]

Hi all,

I have an Edirol R-09 and a Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-8 mini battery module. I have been using Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 binaural mics connected through the battery module (bass roll-off 69Hz), and into the line-in of the R-09, set on low gain, low cut 'off' and AGC 'off'.

Like others, I'd recommend cards over binaurals for what you're doing.  I'd also run mic-in and not line-in when using a battery box and not a pre-amp.

[Belexes]

Like others, I'd recommend cards over binaurals for what you're doing.  I'd also run mic-in and not line-in when using a battery box and not a pre-amp.

For rock concerts with high SPL's as described above? I think you risk brickwalling running mic-in.

[willyp523]

Like others, I'd recommend cards over binaurals for what you're doing.  I'd also run mic-in and not line-in when using a battery box and not a pre-amp.

For rock concerts with high SPL's as described above? I think you risk brickwalling running mic-in.

Just speaking of my own experience, though limited and admittedly a non r09 owner.  Before owning a pre-amp I ran everything from solo acoustic to non heavy metal arena shows (Petty, Springsteen etc.) mic-in with no problems.   

[Belexes]

At a couple rock shows I ran mic-in on my Sony DAT recorders and ran into brickwall issues.  But I would think running mic in for soft/acoustic music would be safe.  Only gone line-in on my R-09.

[itook2much]

I've run mics > BB > R-09 mic-in with no problems.  Just have to watch how you set the levels, as the main difference between mic-in & line-in seems to be that mic-in runs 8dB hotter IME.

[Keyser Soze]

At a couple rock shows I ran mic-in on my Sony DAT recorders and ran into brickwall issues.  But I would think running mic in for soft/acoustic music would be safe.  Only gone line-in on my R-09.

Which DAT unit were you using?  I've been using an M1 with mic-in for almost 10 years and never brickwalled.  (Then again, my unit also was Oade modded so that could be the trick there).

[Belexes]

At a couple rock shows I ran mic-in on my Sony DAT recorders and ran into brickwall issues.  But I would think running mic in for soft/acoustic music would be safe.  Only gone line-in on my R-09.

Which DAT unit were you using?  I've been using an M1 with mic-in for almost 10 years and never brickwalled.  (Then again, my unit also was Oade modded so that could be the trick there).

D7 and M1, but mine were stock, not Oade modded.

[thespangleman]

I have an Edirol R-09 and a Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-8 mini battery module. I have been using Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 binaural mics connected through the battery module (bass roll-off 69Hz), and into the line-in of the R-09, set on low gain, low cut 'off' and AGC 'off'. I've been using this set up to record mainly rock concerts but have been less than happy with the results.

Can you tell us what you're not happy with? Too much crowd chatter? Not enough bass, too much bass, etc..?

Did you open your WAVs in a sound editor to look at the waveforms? Does the peak go all the way up, or will it sound better if you boost the levels in post?

Without hearing your stuff, I'd go with Stan and Belexes. Binaurals are tricky to get right, they require you to be in the sweet spot and no noisy crowd.

Possible upgrades? Consider the Church cards. There are more options if you're willing to go non-stealth, but judging from your rig I guess that's not your game?!

/J

I'm not happy with the sound in general. My recordings sound very muddy, vocals are getting lost and there is no 'sparkle' to the overall sound. Regarding Post editing, I have just got myself a copy of Sony Soundforge. I have tinkered with it a little but don't really know what I'm doing if I'm honest. And yes, living in Europe, I do record stealthily. And by the way, thanks guys for all your help.

[thespangleman]

Right, i've decided to invest in some cardoids, and cant' decide between these two... SP-CMC-2 or MM-HLSC1. I know the HLSC1's are more expensive but will that make much of a difference do you think?

[Belexes]

I prefer the sound of the Sennheiser cap (MM's) myself.  I taped with the HLSC's last night. If I get a chance today I can post a sample.

[thespangleman]

I prefer the sound of the Sennheiser cap (MM's) myself.  I taped with the HLSC's last night. If I get a chance today I can post a sample.

That would be great if you could my friend.

[Sunday Driver]

Right, i've decided to invest in some cardoids, and cant' decide between these two... SP-CMC-2 or MM-HLSC1. I know the HLSC1's are more expensive but will that make much of a difference do you think?

If you say you don't like a lot of "mud" in your recordings, then I would suggest the SP-CMC-2s (AT831s). They have a natural bass roll off below 80Hz.

[Dede2002]

HLSC-1. Detailed, transparent and can take really high SLP.

[Belexes]

Recent sample. Nice Bass:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92008.30.html