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Author Topic: hd-dvd or bluray  (Read 39788 times)

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Offline OFOTD

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2006, 02:28:21 PM »
This will drive you crazy from a basketball standpoint Damon!  But seems to be one more plus of blu-ray

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003496311

Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2006, 02:45:10 PM »
This will drive you crazy from a basketball standpoint Damon!  But seems to be one more plus of blu-ray

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003496311

Not sure how that relates to Basketball except for the fact that Cuban owns the Mavs.  He doesn't have distribution rights for their games, though...

I think that distribution will be key.  Right now the two biggest players are the PS3 and XBOX360.  I would suspect that many people are sour on Blu-Ray because the PS3's are so expensive and hard to find.  The HD-DVD sales for the 360 have been very slow as my local BestBuy has had a ton of them the last few days with little indication that they were selling any of them.

What your local Best Buy does has nothing to do with how HD-DVD addon sales are going.  Microsoft just released data that says they sold 42,000 of the players in November alone.  I'd say that's pretty good considering it was released a week into the month.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 02:56:45 PM by John Kelly »
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Offline OFOTD

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2006, 03:00:38 PM »
This will drive you crazy from a basketball standpoint Damon!  But seems to be one more plus of blu-ray

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003496311

Not sure how that relates to Basketball except for the fact that Cuban owns the Mavs.  He doesn't have distribution rights for their games, though...

I think that distribution will be key.  Right now the two biggest players are the PS3 and XBOX360.  I would suspect that many people are sour on Blu-Ray because the PS3's are so expensive and hard to find.  The HD-DVD sales for the 360 have been very slow as my local BestBuy has had a ton of them the last few days with little indication that they were selling any of them.

What your local Best Buy does has absolutely nothing to do with how HD-DVD addon sales are going.  Microsoft just released data that says they sold 42,000 of the players in November alone.  I'd say that's pretty good. 

The Cuban reference is an inside joke from another thread.

I'd say my local  Best Buy has everything to do with how sales are going.  I live in a somewhat affluent neighborhood with a demographic that is more likely to adopt new technology than other neighborhoods in my area.  Doesn't really matter how many units you're shipping but how many you are selling.  I firmly believe that trying to gauge these two formats by the Xbox and PS3 sales is a big misguided.  These two consoles are still heavily DRM'd for the average consumer. so anything they use on them will be strictly for each respective console.  How many people do you believe will be using either console as their primary movie player of choice.

Back to my local Best Buy though.  It says something to me when you have a pretty large stock of a new technology and what appears to be VERY slow sales on it especially around this time of year at a Best Buy market that is known to adopt new technology faster that other stores..  Microsoft selling 42,000 drives exclusively for the XBOX360 tells us what?  How many people are going to buy a console system for the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?  How many are going to buy a standalone player?  I would venture to guess that standalone sales would FAR outnumber console sales. 

Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2006, 03:24:47 PM »
The Cuban reference is an inside joke from another thread.

Gotcha

I'd say my local  Best Buy has everything to do with how sales are going.  I live in a somewhat affluent neighborhood with a demographic that is more likely to adopt new technology than other neighborhoods in my area.  Doesn't really matter how many units you're shipping but how many you are selling.  I firmly believe that trying to gauge these two formats by the Xbox and PS3 sales is a big misguided.  These two consoles are still heavily DRM'd for the average consumer. so anything they use on them will be strictly for each respective console.  How many people do you believe will be using either console as their primary movie player of choice.

As I said, that is *sales,* not shipped units.  And everyone that buys an HD-DVD addon for the XBox does so to use it solely as a movie player.  The same cannot be said for the PS3.

Back to my local Best Buy though.  It says something to me when you have a pretty large stock of a new technology and what appears to be VERY slow sales on it especially around this time of year at a Best Buy market that is known to adopt new technology faster that other stores..  Microsoft selling 42,000 drives exclusively for the XBOX360 tells us what?  How many people are going to buy a console system for the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?  How many are going to buy a standalone player?  I would venture to guess that standalone sales would FAR outnumber console sales. 

The problem is that you don't have any idea how many were made or how many Best Buy sells and then restocks on the shelves.  You *perceive* slow sales because you see units on the shelves.  However there is no shortage of these drives like there are PS3s.  The fact that you see them on the shelves only says to me that they were mass-produced in sufficient quantities.

I agree with you that neither console will make or break their respective formats.  However, HD-DVD XBox addons should be treated as standalone player sales, since that's all they can be used for.
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Offline ljramsey

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2006, 06:32:08 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's.  whether that means developing a 2 laser system or separate trays or whatever, people are just not going to give up on the number of dvd's that have been sold in this country.  it seems to be the more elegant technology, but unless you can play your dvd's in a blu-ray player, it will remain a niche technology.

as for internet downloads of hd movies, i don't think that's really going to gain a foothold for years.  i just don't see people integrating their computers to that extent.  how many people do you think would really like having PC's sitting in their living room next to their wall-mounted plasmas?  plus, imagine how long it would take to download a 40 gig movie...even if it's cheaper, people would much rather drive to best buy and pick up the movie in 15 minutes than deal with downloading for days, imo.

I have a Sony Blu-ray unit (BDS-S1) and it does play our standard DVD's. The PS3, which is a Blu-ray player, also plays standard DVD's.

I believe the success of Blu-ray is contingent on the success of Sony's PS3. PS3 will (should) be a trojan horse just as PS2 was for DVD. But unless Sony can increase the availability of PS3 they will lose out on both fronts; next-generation HD and next-generation gaming. Nintendo's Wii is proving to be a strong front-runner to both MS Xbox 360 and PS3.

Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2006, 10:08:44 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's.  whether that means developing a 2 laser system or separate trays or whatever, people are just not going to give up on the number of dvd's that have been sold in this country.  it seems to be the more elegant technology, but unless you can play your dvd's in a blu-ray player, it will remain a niche technology.

as for internet downloads of hd movies, i don't think that's really going to gain a foothold for years.  i just don't see people integrating their computers to that extent.  how many people do you think would really like having PC's sitting in their living room next to their wall-mounted plasmas?  plus, imagine how long it would take to download a 40 gig movie...even if it's cheaper, people would much rather drive to best buy and pick up the movie in 15 minutes than deal with downloading for days, imo.

I have a Sony Blu-ray unit (BDS-S1) and it does play our standard DVD's. The PS3, which is a Blu-ray player, also plays standard DVD's.

I believe the success of Blu-ray is contingent on the success of Sony's PS3. PS3 will (should) be a trojan horse just as PS2 was for DVD. But unless Sony can increase the availability of PS3 they will lose out on both fronts; next-generation HD and next-generation gaming. Nintendo's Wii is proving to be a strong front-runner to both MS Xbox 360 and PS3.

Well kinda, the Xbox is well in the lead with 3.4 million consoles sold.  The Wii only has 476,000. ;)
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Offline BJ

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2006, 10:52:21 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's.  whether that means developing a 2 laser system or separate trays or whatever, people are just not going to give up on the number of dvd's that have been sold in this country.  it seems to be the more elegant technology, but unless you can play your dvd's in a blu-ray player, it will remain a niche technology.

as for internet downloads of hd movies, i don't think that's really going to gain a foothold for years.  i just don't see people integrating their computers to that extent.  how many people do you think would really like having PC's sitting in their living room next to their wall-mounted plasmas?  plus, imagine how long it would take to download a 40 gig movie...even if it's cheaper, people would much rather drive to best buy and pick up the movie in 15 minutes than deal with downloading for days, imo.

I have a Sony Blu-ray unit (BDS-S1) and it does play our standard DVD's. The PS3, which is a Blu-ray player, also plays standard DVD's.

I believe the success of Blu-ray is contingent on the success of Sony's PS3. PS3 will (should) be a trojan horse just as PS2 was for DVD. But unless Sony can increase the availability of PS3 they will lose out on both fronts; next-generation HD and next-generation gaming. Nintendo's Wii is proving to be a strong front-runner to both MS Xbox 360 and PS3.

Well kinda, the Xbox is well in the lead with 3.4 million consoles sold.  The Wii only has 476,000. ;)

i think for that stat to be more meaningful, you would need to either compare the xbox sales during the period that the wii has been available, or the xbox sales during its first month against the wii's first month(or however long its been available)

so for the month of Nov, the xbox 360 sold 511,000 (the whole month) while the wii sold 476,000 in the last two weeks alone. 
granted, this is the initial release, and both sold out completely during release...however, I believe with the media behind the wii like it is, whatever it ships to NA in December, it will sell, thus reducing the total sales of the xbox360...i still think the 360 will sell b/w 750k-mil for Dec...less if Nin can ship alot of wii's
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2006, 11:04:46 PM »
thus reducing the total sales of the xbox360

Why?  The PS2 has over 34.8 million consoles sold.  You really mean that if Nintendo hits their 1 million mark for the year there's no room for the 360 to move up???
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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2006, 01:44:31 AM »
Just to add a little flame to the fire.  I've been really lucky to see a side by side comparison of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.  While the differences are VERY minimal in picture quality the Blu-ray has the smallest of edges on that front.  The two noticeable differences for me were the storage capacity (Blu-Ray wins) and the speed of the player (again Blu-ray wins).  When I say speed I mean how long does it take to put a disc in and start watching a movie. 


curious...when you say side by side test...was it the same title on both and was it an HD title or was this a SD DVD being upsampled?  do you happen to know which players they were using?

I watched Mission Impossible III from both players.  I don't have the model numbers on the two players but will find out tonight for you.  They were both hooked into a Pioneer PDP-6071HD plasma via HDMI.   It was my understanding that MI:III was/is one of the very few non-upsampled movies out on both formats right now. 

 

cool...no need to get the models, just curious if you happened to know.  i guess i've heard some mixed things about the first tosh hd-dvd player and i'm not sure if the second gen one is on shelves yet.  didn't realize that any movies had been done in both hd and bluray yet.  thanks for the info.

The first Toshiba player was... well...........s....l....o....w....e....r...........t....h....a....n.........c.....r.....a......p.......

Put the disc in, go take a shower and, if you are lucky, the menu will be up. We are expecting our first batch of the 2nd gen players on 12/28. We'll see if they are any better in that regard but at least they will have HDMI 1.2 so they willl display 1080p.

The PS3, while obviously having supply issues still had it's initial US shipment of 400,000 pretty much sold out before the shipping containers hit the shore. I guess you could argue that those buying the unit are not going to watch Blu-Ray movies with 100% certainty but, on the other hand, how many of those 400,000 people do you think will go out and buy HD-DVD players?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 01:51:04 AM by Thingol »
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2006, 06:09:47 AM »
Just to add a little flame to the fire.  I've been really lucky to see a side by side comparison of both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.  While the differences are VERY minimal in picture quality the Blu-ray has the smallest of edges on that front.  The two noticeable differences for me were the storage capacity (Blu-Ray wins) and the speed of the player (again Blu-ray wins).  When I say speed I mean how long does it take to put a disc in and start watching a movie. 


curious...when you say side by side test...was it the same title on both and was it an HD title or was this a SD DVD being upsampled?  do you happen to know which players they were using?

I watched Mission Impossible III from both players.  I don't have the model numbers on the two players but will find out tonight for you.  They were both hooked into a Pioneer PDP-6071HD plasma via HDMI.   It was my understanding that MI:III was/is one of the very few non-upsampled movies out on both formats right now. 

 

cool...no need to get the models, just curious if you happened to know.  i guess i've heard some mixed things about the first tosh hd-dvd player and i'm not sure if the second gen one is on shelves yet.  didn't realize that any movies had been done in both hd and bluray yet.  thanks for the info.

The first Toshiba player was... well...........s....l....o....w....e....r...........t....h....a....n.........c.....r.....a......p.......

Put the disc in, go take a shower and, if you are lucky, the menu will be up. We are expecting our first batch of the 2nd gen players on 12/28. We'll see if they are any better in that regard but at least they will have HDMI 1.2 so they willl display 1080p.

The PS3, while obviously having supply issues still had it's initial US shipment of 400,000 pretty much sold out before the shipping containers hit the shore. I guess you could argue that those buying the unit are not going to watch Blu-Ray movies with 100% certainty but, on the other hand, how many of those 400,000 people do you think will go out and buy HD-DVD players?

Actually they still haven't even hit 200,000 yet.  Official number is 176,000.
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Offline BJ

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2006, 08:04:09 AM »
thus reducing the total sales of the xbox360

Why?  The PS2 has over 34.8 million consoles sold.  You really mean that if Nintendo hits their 1 million mark for the year there's no room for the 360 to move up???

in how many years?(and how many were rebuys b/c the drives wouldnt work any longer? - I know TONS were)  MOST people arent going to buy both units for christmas (hell alot of people can't afford either), they will make a choice b/w the two...if the wii is available, IMHO, people will go for that for several reasons, the biggest being the price, the second being the media craze around it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 08:09:38 AM by RaZoRbAcK »
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2006, 08:43:28 AM »
thus reducing the total sales of the xbox360

Why?  The PS2 has over 34.8 million consoles sold.  You really mean that if Nintendo hits their 1 million mark for the year there's no room for the 360 to move up???

in how many years?(and how many were rebuys b/c the drives wouldnt work any longer? - I know TONS were)  MOST people arent going to buy both units for christmas (hell alot of people can't afford either), they will make a choice b/w the two...if the wii is available, IMHO, people will go for that for several reasons, the biggest being the price, the second being the media craze around it.

My point is that the market is bigger than the ~1 million units that Nintendo is going to ship by the end of the year, so there's no reason to think that the Wii will make 360 sales go down (especially considering MS has been announcing record sales so far).
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Offline BJ

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2006, 08:50:27 AM »
I think so too...i just think that the more wii's that are available, the less 360's sell...i still think they hit 3/4 mil regardless..but i dont think they top the million mark if wii's are available
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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2006, 09:11:28 AM »
HD-DVD will win, because Sony is behind Blu-ray.

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2006, 10:01:49 AM »
HD-DVD will win, because Sony is behind Blu-ray.

Incontrovertable proof! Case closed!  :P
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