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Author Topic: really nice preamp  (Read 6162 times)

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Offline Nick's Picks

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really nice preamp
« on: December 15, 2007, 06:35:53 PM »
wonder what this sounds like.
isn't very expensive, DC powered.
http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm

they are sold at fullcompass, so I know its not vapor-ware.
not ideal (TRS output not my favorite).

$500 preamp.  not much in that price range these days.



Offline DSatz

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 07:39:18 PM »
Nick's Picks, the RNP is an extremely nice little preamp. Some people consider it the best two-channel preamp available for under a thousand bucks, and I might even agree.

It's not exactly new--I've had mine for two or three years now.

The only real "down side" is that its gain is adjustable only in 6 dB increments; no trim pots are provided. But at the gain levels I typically use for live concert recording with modern, transformerless condenser microphones, it was one of the quietest preamps in the noise tests that I did earlier this year, and (again for my microphones, which draw less than 5 mA apiece) the phantom powering is correct, and (again at the gain levels I typically need) the input headroom is high enough that it's impossible to clip the inputs before the outputs, which is the way I like things to be.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 07:43:00 PM »
I knew its been around for a while.  I've never actually seen a real picture of one though, just a rendering.
so you dig it eh?

ever try apogee MMP ? 
want to trade for a while ?
:-)

Offline rowjimmy

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2007, 08:10:01 PM »
I've come back to that one a bunch of times...

It's on the shortlist of pres that I would like to add to my home studio/taping rig.
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mic > wires > recorder

Offline ambo

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2007, 09:40:36 AM »
Lots of info at Gearslutz for RNP. I think it was very popular when it was released (maybe 5 or 6 years ago?) and part of the popularity was based on the RNC (compressor), which still gets raves. I haven't heard RNP but have seen one, it seems to be well made. I would imagine that there are a lot of used ones for sale. When the D.A.V. BG1 came out it seemed like it became the new hot flavour in under $1000 cleanish stereo preamps.

I'm a bit surprised at DSatz's remark about the RNP's low noise. Even the RNP folks say that it's not particularly quiet, but if anyone knows his stuff and has extensive real world experience it's DSatz, so it must be quiet enough.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2007, 10:53:19 AM by ambo »

stirinthesauce

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2007, 10:14:35 AM »
There was some discussion on this board a couple years ago (or less).  Seems most poo poo'd it because of the name.  Pre-disposed opinions for one reason or the other.

I've always wanted to try one.  Just seems I get caught buying other gear  :P



edited to add:  There are other pertinent threads with some good info (I just did an advanced search), just the one thread was sticking out in my mind.



« Last Edit: December 16, 2007, 10:25:19 AM by stirinthesauce »

Offline momule

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2007, 10:36:59 AM »
I knew its been around for a while.  I've never actually seen a real picture of one though, just a rendering.
so you dig it eh?

ever try apogee MMP ? 
want to trade for a while ?
:-)


Its cleaner than a MMP and much cleaner than the MME.  I personally like it better than the V2. 
AKG 463's (uno ck62) > Mackie Onyx Satellite > Microtrack II

Offline Thom Joad

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2007, 10:56:29 AM »
Had one for a while about 4-5 years ago.  Ran it behind my old Earthworks SR-71's.  Way too bright of a combo.  Wasn't bad for a regular rock show (actually it was pretty good), but was definitely too much for on-stage acoustic music and the like.  That being said, I bet it would sound dynamite with Schoeps or Neumanns or something else that sounds great with a V2 in front.  It's probably splitting hairs, but I would venture to say that the RNP is a tad more transparent than a V2. 

FMR as a company is kind of like AERCO,  Both one person operations, both in TX, both make one (or two) pieces of high quality equipment, pleasure to deal/speak with, etc.  When I originally bought my RNP (brand new from Mercenary) it had a bad peak light. I called up FMR, and he sent me a brand new one the same day I called.

Don't think I have any of these old sources on the LMA, but I'll dig around and see if I can find anything for samples.     

Offline bgalizio

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2007, 12:52:02 PM »
I nearly bought one of these, but decided on the AERCO instead. What I heard (mostly studio stuff) was very nice, but perhaps a bit too transparent.

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2007, 04:36:54 PM »
too transparent a preamp can suck if your mics are same way (thinking DPA).  comes across as harsh to me.

the lack of cleanliness w/the MMP is why I like it so much.  Its like a V2 w/a sprinkle of apogee flavoring.

Offline Thom Joad

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2007, 07:20:45 PM »
Exactly why I like my AERCO with my 4022's rather than the RNP.  I wish I would have plugged my buddy's ccm4's into the RNP while I had it.  Bet it would have sounded nice.

Offline DSatz

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2007, 12:28:30 AM »
ambo, it's rather appalling, but many people apparently try to judge the noise performance of a preamp by turning the gain all the way up and listening for hiss with nothing connected to the inputs. That is approximately as intelligent as blowing into the microphone to see whether a P.A. system is on or not. The makers of the RNP acknowledge that under those conditions, its noise level will be a few dB higher than some other preamps. And I guess that a lot of other people who have never tested this for themselves are simply repeating that statement, perhaps without understanding the context in which it was most likely meant.

What FMR doesn't point out, but could very well, is that any preamp which is quietest under those absurd "test" conditions is almost certain to be noisier in actual use than a preamp with a design optimized for the actual range of source impedances and gain values that are used in the majority of practical applications. Trying to be "all things to all people" may please the marketing department, but whether that approach ends up putting quieter preamps in all our hands may be another matter, and that was something I wanted to find out. I also wanted to find out what the actual relationship of microphone noise was to preamp input noise, and to pay attention to the differing frequency spectra of noise, since a certain dB level of noise can still have a flat spectrum or have low- or high-frequency emphasis, etc., which can have a huge effect on audibility.

What I did was to capture (by making 30-second-long, 24-bit 44.1 kHz recordings) the noise of about a dozen different preamps--all of which were set to a gain level that I typically use when recording, all of which had their phantom power turned on, and all of which were being driven by the type of microphone I use most often, with a shorted test head (in effect, a capacitor of equivalent value with little acoustic sensitivity) substituted for its capsule. Thus the self-noise of the microphone amplifier was included in a realistic manner, the gain setting was in a realistic range, and these settings were the same among all the preamps.

Under those conditions, the unweighted long-term average noise levels of the preamps I tested were all within a handful of dB of one another. That outcome was interesting all by itself--any greater differences became evident only when some kind of weighting was applied to the noise samples which I'd recorded. I believe that this is partly because below a few hundred Hz, all the samples were dominated by the 1/f noise of the microphone itself. But there are also real, physical limits to how quiet a preamp can be.

At low sound pressure levels our ears are drastically less sensitive to lower frequencies, so weighting is really essential when trying to judge the practical effect of noise. With any reasonable weighting applied, the RNP emerged as one of the quietest among all the preamps I tested--holding its own rather nicely with my Grace Lunatec V3 and Millennia Media HV-3B, for example. So that's why the RNP's manufacturer says one thing (because it's perfectly true--under a set of circumstances that are irrelevant in practice for most people) while I say another, and yet we aren't really disagreeing.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 09:02:49 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline drewloo

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2007, 11:24:20 AM »
I was looking on the RNP a while ago--the mailing address is about 1 mile from my house & thought about giving him a ring & seeing if he any used/returned rnp's on the cheap but never got around to it. 

One thing I recall someone commenting about the rnp was that it needs a 1.5 amp power supply, which I believe is a bit more than most other pre's most folks around here use.

Offline ambo

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2007, 03:02:35 PM »
ambo, it's rather appalling, but many people apparently try to judge the noise performance of a preamp by turning the gain all the way up and listening for hiss with nothing connected to the inputs. That is approximately as intelligent as blowing into the microphone to see whether a P.A. system is on or not. The makers of the RNP acknowledge that under those conditions, its noise level will be a few dB higher than some other preamps. And I guess that a lot of other people who have never tested this for themselves are simply repeating that statement, perhaps without understanding the context in which it was most likely meant.

What FMR doesn't point out, but could very well, is that any preamp which is quietest under those absurd "test" conditions is almost certain to be noisier in actual use than a preamp with a design optimized for the actual range of source impedances and gain values that are used in the majority of practical applications. Trying to be "all things to all people" may please the marketing department, but whether that approach ends up putting quieter preamps in all our hands may be another matter, and that was something I wanted to find out. I also wanted to find out what the actual relationship of microphone noise was to preamp input noise, and to pay attention to the differing frequency spectra of noise, since a certain dB level of noise can still have a flat spectrum or have low- or high-frequency emphasis, etc., which can have a huge effect on audibility.

What I did was to capture (by making 30-second-long, 24-bit 44.1 kHz recordings) the noise of about a dozen different preamps--all of which were set to a gain level that I typically use when recording, all of which had their phantom power turned on, and all of which were being driven by the type of microphone I use most often, with a shorted test head (in effect, a capacitor of equivalent value with little acoustic sensitivity) substituted for its capsule. Thus the self-noise of the microphone amplifier was included in a realistic manner, the gain setting was in a realistic range, and these settings were the same among all the preamps.

Under those conditions, the unweighted long-term average noise levels of the preamps I tested were all within a handful of dB of one another. That outcome was interesting all by itself--any greater differences became evident only when some kind of weighting was applied to the noise samples which I'd recorded. I believe that this is partly because below a few hundred Hz, all the samples were dominated by the 1/f noise of the microphone itself. But there are also real, physical limits to how quiet a preamp can be.

At low sound pressure levels our ears are drastically less sensitive to lower frequencies, so weighting is really essential when trying to judge the practical effect of noise. With any reasonable weighting applied, the RNP emerged as one of the quietest among all the preamps I tested--holding its own rather nicely with my Grace Lunatec V3 and Millennia Media HV-3B, for example. So that's why the RNP's manufacturer says one thing (because it's perfectly true--under a set of circumstances that are irrelevant in practice for most people) while I say another, and yet we aren't really disagreeing.

--best regards

Interesting and informative as usual. The manufacturer's disclaimer did cause me to not purchase a RNP, I wasn't able to find one to try although sometime later I did see one in a shop. Instead I bought a M audio DMP3 and recently an Apogee Duet, both of which I like).

Offline bluewingolive

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Re: really nice preamp
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 01:15:16 PM »
I own one. Never used in the field as of yet....just in the house as a trial.  I need to get a proper cable built for Li-on powering.  I'd like to test it, powered by the battery w/ phantom.  Anyone else done this?  Post your results if you can.  It is a rather compact box that fits into a gear bag w/ no problem. 
The build is little "off", hence the decent price...fwiw. 

 

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