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Author Topic: Help With Balcony Clamping  (Read 13826 times)

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Offline skotdee

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Help With Balcony Clamping
« on: May 10, 2008, 07:37:11 AM »
Hey Folks, taper newb here, got a few questions about clamping to the balcony.

There is a local venue I'm going to taping in a lot, with not much floor room to set up but a great balcony. Here is a pic so you see what I'm working with:



Obviously thats a side view but the balcony is the same in the back. Anyway, Im thinking of clamping to one of those vertical supports, then extending down to get closer to approx 10' above the floor. Several concerns: 1) Do you think the sound is going to slap off that section of wood under the balcony and affect my recording? I'll be using cards, so I was hoping that might not be an issue. Maybe I should extend all the way down past it so that wont be an issue? That would still be plenty above people's heads, but It looks like I'd need a damn long extension of some sort. 2) What is the best equipment to use for this job?

I've done a lot of research but all the different options are a bit overwhelming to say the least. I'm leaning toward a superclamp with the extension arm, but is that going to be long enough to get me under that flat section of wood under the rail? Also could someone please show me exactly what all I'll need to attach a t-bar to the extension arm if thats the way to go? Im a bit confused here since I'd be working "upside down" with this particular application. I know the shure vert bar would probably make matters much easier, so I may go with that. There is a show next weekend that I'd love to tape so I need to act fast.

Any thoughts/suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
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Offline shaggy

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2008, 07:45:25 AM »
2 X superclamps and a monopod, run it upside down.  But if you can't, just run a superclamp or an ENG C-clamp off the top.  No need to get all fussy about it if you don't have the gear.  Do it before anyone comes in, just-in-case your palms are sweaty and the monopod goes bye-bye!  Safety is foremost. 

Offline skotdee

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 08:16:21 AM »
Thanks Shaggy, but could you elaborate a little more? I don't have the gear, but Im willing to buy whatever I need since I'll be taping here quite a bit. This is my hometown venue. Isnt there an extension arm for the superclamp that would work instead of a monopod? Or is that not long enough? With the 2 x clamp option are you saying one to clamp to the rail and the other to hold the monopod? Also, how the heck to you mount a t-bar to a monopod? Won't it have a big ole attachment head for a camera on the end of it?

Also, whats an ENG C-clamp? The tapes made from up top leave a little to be desired, so I'm really trying to get down below the balcony if at all possible.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 08:23:25 AM by skotdee »
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Offline shaggy

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 11:10:50 AM »
You said you wanted it to go down to about 10' off the floor?  The Bogen/Manfrotto extension bar will certainly not clear that space between the lowest part of the vertical slats and the bottom of the balcony (the longest rigid one is like 7 or 10 inches, they make a longer flex arm too but I dunno how secure those are with a monopod and mics on the other end).  If you use two super clamps and an extension arm you could run a monopod upside down, you gotta see if that lip is gonna be a problem (from what I see in the photo, it might be a problem to clear with the extension arm).  A wee bit dangerous but if everything is tight, nothing will come loose.  A monopod has a camera screw at the top, use whatever adapters you need to get your t-bar to work with it.

Running two superclamps supporting a mic stand, here at the Showbox in Seattle (hard to run dead center there, the next best thing and getting a a few feet closer to the center is to clamp to the rail next to the soundboard).  Having two is indispensable but they a bitch to lug around.  Had to lose these before I flew out here to Tokyo.  I sure could have used them last night in Aoyama to get a bit closer to the center.



If it sounds bad, then forget it.  A ENG C-clamp to run off of anything:



What about them spot lights I see every 4-5 feet apart.  Is there one dead center?  Can you use the house ladder to get to it?

Offline spyder9

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 11:54:56 AM »
A Super Clamp and either a Bogen HD Flex Arm or a Bogen 196 articulating arm.  Anything that will get you down and out away from the edge of the rail.  That way you won't pick up all the yelling and screaming coming from the balcony.

Example below:

Offline GDfan

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 01:47:58 PM »
take it from Dan, he is the Balcony King!
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 03:15:04 PM »
Couple options, first one already mentioned:

<1>  Bogen SuperClamp + Bogen Extension (35-92")

I use a SuperClamp + custom extension pretty regularly, but the Bogen extension is cheaper and should work just fine.  I clamp to a cylindrical horizontal bar in the balcony, which allows me to rotate the clamp around the bar to adjust the extension's angle / depth relative to the mount point.  Pic (thanks, Ed!) without the bar to which I'm clamping.

This setup works well if you're able to clamp to a horizontal, cylindrical bar.  If you need to clamp to a vertical bar, or a horizontal bar that's not cylindrical (like a square-ish bar) and therefore won't allow you to rotate the clamp, you won't have the flexibility you need to adjust the angle / depth of the extension.  In that case, try option <2>...

<2>  SuperClamp + Posi-Lok + Extension

This provides greater flexibility.  Clamp to the rail so the standard stud is horizontal.  Attach the Posi-Lok to the standard stud, using a jam nut to align the Posi-Lok so it rotates into the plane you want.  (I like Latch Lake jam nuts).  Then attach the extension to the Posi-Lok.  The Posi-Lok allows you to control the angle / depth of the extension as it runs down from the mount point.



Personally, I wouldn't use my C-Type clamp to secure anything other than the mics:



I just don't feel it's robust enough to hold the added weight of the extension + the mics and the associated torque with the mics extended.



Note 1:  In both cases above, you may need various adapters to attach the extension or Posi-Lok to the SuperClamp stud.

NOTE 2:  In ALL cases of clamping to a balcony railing, or any position that hangs your mics above the crowd, you should use a safety cable.  Clamp falling or getting knocked off the raili ng and the mics or your clamp clobbering someone in the head is a good way to convince the venue to shut down taping altogether.  In addition to safety, it demonstrates professionalism and will help set the venue's concerns at ease.
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Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2008, 04:08:02 PM »
Is those vertical slats round or rectangular?

If rectangular, I would use something like shown below, which will get you out a few inches.  Standard clamp from the hardware store with a 3/8" hole drilled through it.
If round, bogan super clamp, or windtech C-clamp, without any other extensions.

I wouldn't worry too much about going out and down.  I would try to clamp as low as I conveniently could on that bar, and between the t-bar and your shock mounts, this will get you a little below toe level.

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Offline spyder9

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2008, 08:56:24 PM »
Couple options, first one already mentioned:

<1>  Bogen SuperClamp + Bogen Extension (35-92")

I use a SuperClamp + custom extension pretty regularly, but the Bogen extension is cheaper and should work just fine.  I clamp to a cylindrical horizontal bar in the balcony, which allows me to rotate the clamp around the bar to adjust the extension's angle / depth relative to the mount point.  Pic (thanks, Ed!) without the bar to which I'm clamping.

This setup works well if you're able to clamp to a horizontal, cylindrical bar.  If you need to clamp to a vertical bar, or a horizontal bar that's not cylindrical (like a square-ish bar) and therefore won't allow you to rotate the clamp, you won't have the flexibility you need to adjust the angle / depth of the extension.  In that case, try option <2>...

<2>  SuperClamp + Posi-Lok + Extension

This provides greater flexibility.  Clamp to the rail so the standard stud is horizontal.  Attach the Posi-Lok to the standard stud, using a jam nut to align the Posi-Lok so it rotates into the plane you want.  (I like Latch Lake jam nuts).  Then attach the extension to the Posi-Lok.  The Posi-Lok allows you to control the angle / depth of the extension as it runs down from the mount point.



Personally, I wouldn't use my C-Type clamp to secure anything other than the mics:



I just don't feel it's robust enough to hold the added weight of the extension + the mics and the associated torque with the mics extended.



Note 1:  In both cases above, you may need various adapters to attach the extension or Posi-Lok to the SuperClamp stud.

NOTE 2:  In ALL cases of clamping to a balcony railing, or any position that hangs your mics above the crowd, you should use a safety cable.  Clamp falling or getting knocked off the raili ng and the mics or your clamp clobbering someone in the head is a good way to convince the venue to shut down taping altogether.  In addition to safety, it demonstrates professionalism and will help set the venue's concerns at ease.


Thanks Brian for the safety cable tip.  Need one of those now that I'm not running the flex arm.  Huge find.   :coolguy:



Here's a new item I use:  Bogen 196 articulating arm.  Made of the same material as bogen stands.  Very light, but also very structurally dependable.   24" in length when straightened out.  Has the Posi-Lok feature at all the joints.  Very compact and easier to carry than an extension pole.   

<3.>  Bogen Super Clamp +

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm_2.html

« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 09:01:34 PM by spyder9 »

Offline bluntforcetrauma

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2008, 09:28:52 PM »
I like the bogen ' C" clamp and Bogen extension pole.  I do have 3 superclamps also but i find the " c" clamp to be a little stronger for a right angle wood hold.

just my .02 cents







Offline skotdee

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2008, 10:48:44 PM »
If you need to clamp to a vertical bar, or a horizontal bar that's not cylindrical (like a square-ish bar) and therefore won't allow you to rotate the clamp, you won't have the flexibility you need to adjust the angle / depth of the extension.  In that case, try option <2>...

<2>  SuperClamp + Posi-Lok + Extension

This provides greater flexibility.  Clamp to the rail so the standard stud is horizontal.  Attach the Posi-Lok to the standard stud, using a jam nut to align the Posi-Lok so it rotates into the plane you want.  (I like Latch Lake jam nuts).  Then attach the extension to the Posi-Lok.  The Posi-Lok allows you to control the angle / depth of the extension as it runs down from the mount point.

Im thinking this option may be the best to fit my needs. Its definitely a vertical "slat" that I'll be clamping to, which is "squarish" in shape, not cylindrical. If I could please ask a few more questions:

1. First, and please pardon my ignorance on this, but which super clamp should I use? There seems to be several options available on B&H. I assume its the 2915? Or should I use the "quick action" version?

2. Also, which "standard stud" do I use? The version shown here? Or how about this one since it has the more common 3/8 thread?

3. Next, can you tell me what thread the male and female connectors on the posi-lok use? This will definitely help me figure out which adapers I need. I'm hoping they're both 5/8?

EDIT: After a little more research, I found it does feature the standard 5/8" thread. So Im now thinking I should indeed grab the 3/8 thread standard stud for the super clamp, and with a 3/8>5/8 adapter, Im set to connect the posi-lok, correct?

4. Last, how does the extension attach to the posi-lok? It says it attaches to any top that has a 5/8 inch STUD, but the posi-lok looks to have THREAD. Im thinking this doesnt matter, and it locks on over the thread?

UUUGGGHHH, still so many questions! Please excuse me, I just want to be sure I get all this right before I hit B&H up with a huge order...

« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 11:33:02 PM by skotdee »
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Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 09:19:45 AM »
Go for the regular superclamp (not the quick action one).  The quick action one has a thumb screw that you can't crank down on as well.

By the way, what are you using for mics?  If you are using AT-853's, that's a little different from ADK-TLs.





« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 09:37:56 AM by SmokinJoe »
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Offline nickb

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 12:43:13 PM »
+T All around.

Very informative thread !!

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 08:48:30 PM »
Before you go and by any thing find out if you can clamp from the balcony were you tape.
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 05:42:19 PM »




If that is the Freebird, PM me, I tape from the balcony all the time.  I'll see if I have some pictures of my set up.
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Offline skotdee

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2008, 06:32:25 PM »

If that is the Freebird, PM me, I tape from the balcony all the time.  I'll see if I have some pictures of my set up.


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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2008, 06:45:56 PM »
As you've already noted, go with the SuperClamp stud terminating in a 3/8" tip, then add a 3/8 > 5/8 adapter.

The Posi-Lok has a 5/8"-male on one end, 5/8"-female on the other.  You'll screw the Posi-Lok 5/8"-female onto the superclamp stud + adapter (5/8" male termination).

Now you're left with a 5/8"-male thread, but the Bogen extension has a 5/8"-female stud end.  This is getting trickier.  :P  I haven't had to deal with all these adapters since mine's custom, but, I think this will do it, end-to-end (and there are probably alternative options, taboot):

SuperClamp >
standard stud 3/8"-male tip >
Bogen 3-8"-female | 5/8"-male adapter (K&M alternative) * >
jam nut (so you may align the Posi-Lok in the proper orientation) >
5/8"-female Posi-Lok | Posi-Lok 5/8"-male >
Atlas AD-5B 5/8"-female coupling barrel >
5/8"-male | 3/8"-female adapter >
3/8"-male Bogen double-ended 5/8"-male stud w/ 1/4" tip you can ignore (alternatively 3/8"-male threaded | 5/8"-male stud adapter >
Bogen extension w/ 5/8"-male stud & 3/8"-male threaded tip.

* I have at least 3 different lengths of 3/8"-female | 5/8"-male adapters:  short, medium, long.  The "medium" and "long" work just fine, but the "short" doesn't have enough threads to securely accommodate the jam nut + Posi-Lok.  I think the Bogen is the "medium" length.  The K&M might be the "long", but then again it might also be the short, or another "medium" variant...I'm not sure.  To be safe, and to avoid shipping on piddly stuff like adapters if I've linked to the "short" version, you may want to consider getting both just in case.

Then, assuming you have a 5/8"-female threaded mic mount / stereo bar, you have at least two options to attach your mics to this contraption:

<1>  3/8"-female | 5/8"-male adapter
or
<2>  Bogen Rapid Adapter (5/8"-female stud | 3/8"-female threaded tip) > 3/8"-female | 5/8"-male adapter

Personally, I like option <2> since it gives me quick-on and -off capability and it's what I normally use for running on my regular mic stand.

That'll work!  But maybe there's an easier way to do this...  ???

Allllll that said, and depending on the location / height of the PA stacks, you may not need the extension / Posi-Lok contraption.  A SuperClamp + Bogen right-angle extension arm or Bogen heavy-duty flex-arm (if you have full-body or LD mics, trust me...you want the heavy-duty version) might do the trick.  And remember:  safety cable!
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2008, 06:51:36 PM »

 ::)  Obligitory plug for a couple of my balcony tapes from the Freebird Live.

Split DPA 4023's:

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02-dpa4023.flac16

Gefell m210 hanging from balcony center:

http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-03-02.mg210.flac16
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Offline skotdee

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2008, 07:43:29 PM »
As you've already noted, go with the SuperClamp stud terminating in a 3/8" tip, then add a 3/8 > 5/8 adapter.

The Posi-Lok has a 5/8"-male on one end, 5/8"-female on the other.  You'll screw the Posi-Lok 5/8"-female onto the superclamp stud + adapter (5/8" male termination).

Now you're left with a 5/8"-male thread, but the Bogen extension has a 5/8"-female stud end.  This is getting trickier.  :P  I haven't had to deal with all these adapters since mine's custom, but, I think this will do it, end-to-end (and there are probably alternative options, taboot):

SuperClamp >
standard stud 3/8"-male tip >
Bogen 3-8"-female | 5/8"-male adapter (K&M alternative) * >
jam nut (so you may align the Posi-Lok in the proper orientation) >
5/8"-female Posi-Lok | Posi-Lok 5/8"-male >
Atlas AD-5B 5/8"-female coupling barrel >
5/8"-male | 3/8"-female adapter >
3/8"-male Bogen double-ended 5/8"-male stud w/ 1/4" tip you can ignore (alternatively 3/8"-male threaded | 5/8"-male stud adapter >
Bogen extension w/ 5/8"-male stud & 3/8"-male threaded tip.

* I have at least 3 different lengths of 3/8"-female | 5/8"-male adapters:  short, medium, long.  The "medium" and "long" work just fine, but the "short" doesn't have enough threads to securely accommodate the jam nut + Posi-Lok.  I think the Bogen is the "medium" length.  The K&M might be the "long", but then again it might also be the short, or another "medium" variant...I'm not sure.  To be safe, and to avoid shipping on piddly stuff like adapters if I've linked to the "short" version, you may want to consider getting both just in case.

Then, assuming you have a 5/8"-female threaded mic mount / stereo bar, you have at least two options to attach your mics to this contraption:

<1>  3/8"-female | 5/8"-male adapter
or
<2>  Bogen Rapid Adapter (5/8"-female stud | 3/8"-female threaded tip) > 3/8"-female | 5/8"-male adapter

Personally, I like option <2> since it gives me quick-on and -off capability and it's what I normally use for running on my regular mic stand.

That'll work!  But maybe there's an easier way to do this...  ???

Allllll that said, and depending on the location / height of the PA stacks, you may not need the extension / Posi-Lok contraption.  A SuperClamp + Bogen right-angle extension arm or Bogen heavy-duty flex-arm (if you have full-body or LD mics, trust me...you want the heavy-duty version) might do the trick.  And remember:  safety cable!

Holy CRAP, just when I thought I had this figured out. So the extension 5/8 female stud end wont fit the 5/8 male thread end? OUCH. Definitely not enough time now to order the extra adapters and get them by this weekend's DBT show! LUCKILY, colin here has been in touch and he will have his balcony rig hanging so I can hopefully just clamp on and fly that way for this show. Hopefully after that I can get the adapters for your suggestion here or figure out another way to tackle it...

Oh yeah, I ordered the "on-stage" 3/8 to 5/8 adapters. Do you know if these are the short medium or long versions?

THANK YOU for all your input on this! I swear if I ever hit 50 posts I'll have some tix for you and the others that have helped me along this journey...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 07:56:36 PM by skotdee »
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2008, 08:52:26 PM »
So the extension 5/8 female stud end wont fit the 5/8 male thread end? OUCH.

Yeah, the Posi-Lok's 5/8"-male thread won't slot into the extension's 5/8"-female stud.  Even if it did, you'd hose the Posi-Lok's male threads cranking down the tightening screw on the extension.

I think the balcony's probably low enough you don't need the Posi-Lok.  And depending on how far back the balcony is, you may not need an extension, either.  Should be in good shape with your own gear, or clamping.

Oh yeah, I ordered the "on-stage" 3/8 to 5/8 adapters. Do you know if these are the short medium or long versions?

Uhmmmm...those are a version I didn't even consider.  Though I used to have one of those, I don't any longer - so I can't test.  I don't think they'll work, likely too short, but...never know.  Good luck and let us know how it goes!
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Offline skotdee

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2008, 09:47:26 PM »
Yeah, the Posi-Lok's 5/8"-male thread won't slot into the extension's 5/8"-female stud.  Even if it did, you'd hose the Posi-Lok's male threads cranking down the tightening screw on the extension.

Gotcha. How about a Female Threaded 3/8" to Male 5/8" Stud Adapter however? Couldn't I theoretically use this and go:

Posi-Lok 5/8"-male >
5/8>3/8 Adapter>
Female Threaded 3/8" to Male 5/8" Stud Adapter>
Bogen extension 5/8"-female stud end

Seems like this may work and eliminate a few adapter steps...

I think the balcony's probably low enough you don't need the Posi-Lok.  And depending on how far back the balcony is, you may not need an extension, either.  Should be in good shape with your own gear, or clamping.

Actually you'd be surprised how much better the floor sounds than the balcony in this venue. Its just that the floor is WAY to tight and crowded to set up a stand, hence the need to set up shop up top.

Again, THANKS a ton Brian for your input. Please let me know if you think about that 3/8 thread to 5/8 stud adapter.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2008, 10:36:20 PM »
Gotcha. How about a Female Threaded 3/8" to Male 5/8" Stud Adapter however? Couldn't I theoretically use this and go:

Posi-Lok 5/8"-male >
5/8>3/8 Adapter>
Female Threaded 3/8" to Male 5/8" Stud Adapter>
Bogen extension 5/8"-female stud end

Seems like this may work and eliminate a few adapter steps...

Sounds good to me.  I knew there was a better way!
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2008, 11:45:53 PM »
Just keep it simple. 

Superclamp > Extension pole (24" straight, articulating, or flex) > 5/8 right angle adapter > T-bar > mics

ADD: safety cable


That's all you need.  Just keep it simple.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 12:12:30 AM by spyder9 »

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2008, 01:38:46 AM »
Just keep it simple.

Spot on feedback, Dan.  If you only need to raise / lower a short distance, simple's doable and preferable.  That's a slick articulating arm!
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2008, 05:20:15 AM »
Just keep it simple. 

Superclamp > Extension pole (24" straight, articulating, or flex) > 5/8 right angle adapter > T-bar > mics

ADD: safety cable

That's all you need.  Just keep it simple.

Thanks Dan, that helps! Again though, in this particular venue I'm gonna need to get down farther than that. If you look back at my original photo there's a large section of wood under the balcony rail Im trying to clear. It just sounds that much better downstairs in the Freebird.

I am curious though, your method is nice & simple but I'm not totally clear on the 5/8 right angle adapter. I can't seem to find one at B&H and from your photo It isnt totally clear what it looks like. I do suppose though I could just attach the tbar upside down to the end of the articulating arm with a standard rapid adapter and 3/8>5/8 and not need a right angle?
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2008, 12:57:34 PM »
Here's some pictures of the parts I use.  I misspoke above about a right angle adapter.  Its actually just a straight 5/8 adapter that use.  The adapter maybe overkill for some.  I found it on eBay in the Cameras section.

As for additional length with an articulating arm, Bogen does make a longer arm that's 33 inches and has 1 extra joint to tighten down.  IMO, 2-3 feet is all you really need for clamping to the rail in almost any place.

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2008, 04:38:57 PM »
Thanks for the detailed pics, that helps clear it up! I see the straight 5/8 rapid adapter, but Im still wondering where to find the piece in your last photo attachment. Thats the piece you refer to as overkill, no? Wouldn't the rapid adapter just fit right on to the stud at the end of the extension?

Thanks again!
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2008, 05:42:12 PM »
I bought the adapter from eBay seller: 2dreammaker

He or she sells a ton of camera/lighting accessories.  I looked up my feedback and I'm almost 99.9% sure I bought it from that seller.  The auction listing is no longer accessible because it just over 90 days.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 06:25:04 PM by spyder9 »

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2008, 04:16:35 PM »
spyder,

that articulated arm is pretty sweet. you have a part# for that bad boy?

edit: ...and that doohickey in the very last photo, too?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 04:20:52 PM by tim in jersey »

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2008, 09:25:32 PM »
Timmy,

Bogen 196 articulated arm

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm_2.html

I do not have a part # for the doohick.  I scored it from 2dreammaker (an ebay seller).  You'll have to contact him or her on where they found it.

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2008, 10:19:42 PM »
Timmy,

Bogen 196 articulated arm

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm_2.html

I do not have a part # for the doohick.  I scored it from 2dreammaker (an ebay seller).  You'll have to contact him or her on where they found it.

The doohick IS sweet, but is it really necessary? Wouldn't the T-Bar with rapid adapter fit directly on the arm stud?
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2008, 01:21:44 PM »
Yes it will fit.  I got the adapter just to give me a little more flexibility in positioning.

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2008, 08:18:13 PM »
learn something new everyday thanks spider for the info on the articulating arm gonna pick one of those up for taping here in town.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2008, 11:13:03 PM »
Just hit 50 posts, +T all around. Thanks folks!
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2008, 11:45:54 AM »
have you taped any shows there since you started this thread? would love to see some pics of the rig in action.

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2008, 02:02:18 PM »
I have not, but will be sure to post pics when I do!
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2008, 08:52:10 AM »
Just keep it simple. 

Superclamp > Extension pole (24" straight, articulating, or flex) > 5/8 right angle adapter > T-bar > mics

ADD: safety cable


That's all you need.  Just keep it simple.

I use a Shure Vert Bar, do you think it would be too heavy for this setup? Wondering if I should grab a swivel bar. Been thinking about grabbing one anyway. Speaking of that, is the AKG any better than the generic version? Wondering if there is an advantage going with the name brand there...

Thanks again. +T's again just cause I owe ya'll.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2008, 09:19:22 AM »
Just keep it simple. 

Superclamp > Extension pole (24" straight, articulating, or flex) > 5/8 right angle adapter > T-bar > mics

ADD: safety cable


That's all you need.  Just keep it simple.

I use a Shure Vert Bar, do you think it would be too heavy for this setup? Wondering if I should grab a swivel bar. Been thinking about grabbing one anyway. Speaking of that, is the AKG any better than the generic version? Wondering if there is an advantage going with the name brand there...

Thanks again. +T's again just cause I owe ya'll.

The vert bar may be too heavy.  If it fell we wouldn't be able to hang mics from the balcony anymore.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2008, 09:30:14 AM »
Just keep it simple. 

Superclamp > Extension pole (24" straight, articulating, or flex) > 5/8 right angle adapter > T-bar > mics

ADD: safety cable


That's all you need.  Just keep it simple.

I use a Shure Vert Bar, do you think it would be too heavy for this setup? Wondering if I should grab a swivel bar. Been thinking about grabbing one anyway. Speaking of that, is the AKG any better than the generic version? Wondering if there is an advantage going with the name brand there...

Thanks again. +T's again just cause I owe ya'll.

The vert bar may be too heavy.  If it fell we wouldn't be able to hang mics from the balcony anymore.

Thanks Colin, thats what I was thinking. Just so ya know though, I did pick up the safety cable that skalinder recommended
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2008, 12:02:25 PM »
Nice, good job on the saftey cable.  I need one myself!
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2008, 02:57:47 PM »
Hey Hey, remember me? I finally got to try this rig out! I went in with several options depending on how I was able to attach the clamp to the rail. Turns out Skalinder's method worked out dead on, Superclamp > Posi-Lok > Extension Pole > Mics. Thanks Brian! There wasn't enough room between the vertical slats to clamp to them, but luckily there is a board running under the top molding section, perpendicular, that I was able to get a grip on. See the detail pic for a close up of that section (note safety cable). Anyway, just wanted to post my results, thanks again for all the help with this!

Recording here if you're interested
http://www.archive.org/details/pg2008-10-31.akg481.flac16
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 03:00:50 PM by skotdee »
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2008, 04:35:45 PM »
Long extention. Way to get all the way down in the open air under the balcony edge.  Is that a house stereo mic setup just behind? Its extention into the balcony lip looks permanent.

I just read through the thread and saw that cool articulating arm.  Great option, I may grab one. Thanks for the photos Dan.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2008, 06:52:13 PM »

If that is the Freebird, PM me, I tape from the balcony all the time.  I'll see if I have some pictures of my set up.


Yep, thats the bird. Good Eye! Jacksonville Florida represent. Play some skynyrd.

has the free bird moved in the last few years? i haven't been there in a while, but the one I went too was tiny little bar.
back to subject, I am  a big fan of the super clamp (x2) and mono, has always worked for me
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2008, 07:57:03 PM »
and I'm a big fan of  396AB-3

it's saved my butt a couple of times when you can't "bring in a stand" or I need to extend out/down.  (Pumpkins 08/16/08 in C-Ville comes to mind)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354654-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_396AB_3_Double_Articulated_Arm_.html
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2008, 10:28:32 AM »
Just keep it simple. 

Superclamp > Extension pole (24" straight, articulating, or flex) > 5/8 right angle adapter > T-bar > mics

ADD: safety cable


That's all you need.  Just keep it simple.

I use a Shure Vert Bar, do you think it would be too heavy for this setup? Wondering if I should grab a swivel bar. Been thinking about grabbing one anyway. Speaking of that, is the AKG any better than the generic version? Wondering if there is an advantage going with the name brand there...

Thanks again. +T's again just cause I owe ya'll.

The vert bar may be too heavy.  If it fell we wouldn't be able to hang mics from the balcony anymore.

Thanks Colin, thats what I was thinking. Just so ya know though, I did pick up the safety cable that skalinder recommended

B&H site says that safety cable has been discontinued - is there an updated part number from B&H?

« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 10:31:25 AM by dactylus »
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2008, 12:20:25 PM »

B&H site says that safety cable has been discontinued - is there an updated part number from B&H?


If you search safety cable on B&H, lots of others come up.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2008, 04:56:59 PM »

B&H site says that safety cable has been discontinued - is there an updated part number from B&H?


If you search safety cable on B&H, lots of others come up.

Get picture hanging wire and make one yourself.  Just wrap some of the extra cable and secure with Gaffers tape.  I used 100lb wire and made 4 cables for cheap.  My Grandmother (RIP) made shell plaques that weighted a ton and used this stuff to hang them with no problem.



« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 05:15:06 PM by tgakidis »
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2008, 08:12:35 PM »
Get picture hanging wire and make one yourself.  Just wrap some of the extra cable and secure with Gaffers tape.  I used 100lb wire and made 4 cables for cheap.  My Grandmother (RIP) made shell plaques that weighted a ton and used this stuff to hang them with no problem.

Also, static climbing rope or cord (between 3 and 9mm) with proper fig8 knots and 2 carabiners should work as well.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2008, 09:49:15 PM »
I keep meaning to pick up some stainless steel fishing leader for this application.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2008, 02:50:57 PM »



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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2009, 02:30:36 PM »
Bump because this is a good thread to keep around. Does anyone have a picture of the safety cable in action? They don't really come with instructions, and it appears to be self-explanatory, but a picture is worth a thousand words they say.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2009, 02:35:25 PM »
Bump because this is a good thread to keep around. Does anyone have a picture of the safety cable in action? They don't really come with instructions, and it appears to be self-explanatory, but a picture is worth a thousand words they say.

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2009, 02:46:11 PM »
Bump because this is a good thread to keep around. Does anyone have a picture of the safety cable in action? They don't really come with instructions, and it appears to be self-explanatory, but a picture is worth a thousand words they say.

This is a good thread to keep around with lots of pictures and links.

I agree with making your own safety cables. I got 15 feet of picture hanging cable for about $3 and a pack of carabiners for around $6. now I have about four cables of varying length.

If you do want to make your own, don't stop at the two or three pound cables but get something like 15 pounds.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2009, 03:34:58 PM »
Bump because this is a good thread to keep around. Does anyone have a picture of the safety cable in action? They don't really come with instructions, and it appears to be self-explanatory, but a picture is worth a thousand words they say.

Look back at the detail pic from my rig on page 3, about halfway down. I have it wrapped around the rail and both ends secured where the stud enters the superclamp
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 03:55:22 PM by cybergaloot »
--
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Offline Myco

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2009, 04:38:02 PM »
Nice! Thanks. We should have this thread sticky'd
Microtech Gefell M200: M20/M21/M27 caps> Bumblebee MiAGi-II/Darktrain silver cable's/"Chuck" Belden cables> Aerco MP-2 or Busman modded DR-680 pre-amps> Darktrain cables & interconnects> Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2009, 04:46:24 PM »
I think there are longer ones available, that's just the first hit I got. They use then to secure stage lights. And company that sells lighting equipment will have them.
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Offline pistolpete71

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2009, 03:11:21 PM »
"the Avenger" D230 - Super Clamp Grip Head

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124734-REG/Avenger_D230_Super_Clamp_Grip_Head.html

I'm thinking of trying one of these to clamp from an overhead light bar. The clamp is a little pricey, but should allow me to fabricate an extention bar on the cheap (parts list = a 5' length of pipe, a 3/8" bolt, 2-part epoxy & some black spray paint).
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2009, 07:19:14 PM »
"the Avenger" D230 - Super Clamp Grip Head

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124734-REG/Avenger_D230_Super_Clamp_Grip_Head.html

I'm thinking of trying one of these to clamp from an overhead light bar. The clamp is a little pricey, but should allow me to fabricate an extention bar on the cheap (parts list = a 5' length of pipe, a 3/8" bolt, 2-part epoxy & some black spray paint).

Rather than using pipe you might consider aluminum tubing, You can get it at almost any hardware store. Much lighter weight. You might also consider drilling a couple of holes where you epoxy the bolt in so that the epoxy have a better grip on the tubing. If you go with tubing you might wedge a short piece of dowel rod in the end that gets clamped so that it doesn't crush.
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2009, 09:25:22 AM »
"the Avenger" D230 - Super Clamp Grip Head

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124734-REG/Avenger_D230_Super_Clamp_Grip_Head.html

I'm thinking of trying one of these to clamp from an overhead light bar. The clamp is a little pricey, but should allow me to fabricate an extention bar on the cheap (parts list = a 5' length of pipe, a 3/8" bolt, 2-part epoxy & some black spray paint).

Rather than using pipe you might consider aluminum tubing, You can get it at almost any hardware store. Much lighter weight. You might also consider drilling a couple of holes where you epoxy the bolt in so that the epoxy have a better grip on the tubing. If you go with tubing you might wedge a short piece of dowel rod in the end that gets clamped so that it doesn't crush.

Or you could use PVC.  I use 1/2" sch-80.  Sch-80 is dark grey instead of white.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2009, 12:32:29 PM »
"the Avenger" D230 - Super Clamp Grip Head

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124734-REG/Avenger_D230_Super_Clamp_Grip_Head.html

I'm thinking of trying one of these to clamp from an overhead light bar. The clamp is a little pricey, but should allow me to fabricate an extention bar on the cheap (parts list = a 5' length of pipe, a 3/8" bolt, 2-part epoxy & some black spray paint).

Rather than using pipe you might consider aluminum tubing, You can get it at almost any hardware store. Much lighter weight. You might also consider drilling a couple of holes where you epoxy the bolt in so that the epoxy have a better grip on the tubing. If you go with tubing you might wedge a short piece of dowel rod in the end that gets clamped so that it doesn't crush.

Or you could use PVC.  I use 1/2" sch-80.  Sch-80 is dark grey instead of white.

Dark gray PVC pipe is usually electrical conduit. Its not as susceptible to ultraviolet light. I would think 5' if run horizontally would tend to bend. Good stuff for projects though.
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MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2009, 05:53:36 PM »


Dark gray PVC pipe is usually electrical conduit. Its not as susceptible to ultraviolet light. I would think 5' if run horizontally would tend to bend. Good stuff for projects though.

The lighter gray is electrical conduit, but sch-80 is thicker walled and more ridgid PVC which is a darker grey.  But 1/2" would probably bend you're right
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2009, 04:51:03 PM »
"the Avenger" D230 - Super Clamp Grip Head

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124734-REG/Avenger_D230_Super_Clamp_Grip_Head.html

I'm thinking of trying one of these to clamp from an overhead light bar. The clamp is a little pricey, but should allow me to fabricate an extention bar on the cheap (parts list = a 5' length of pipe, a 3/8" bolt, 2-part epoxy & some black spray paint).

I own one of these. Nice clamp, but really HEAVY! You definitely need a safety cable if you use this puppy.
Microtech Gefell M200: M20/M21/M27 caps> Bumblebee MiAGi-II/Darktrain silver cable's/"Chuck" Belden cables> Aerco MP-2 or Busman modded DR-680 pre-amps> Darktrain cables & interconnects> Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
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Offline pistolpete71

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2009, 05:35:41 PM »
"the Avenger" D230 - Super Clamp Grip Head

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/124734-REG/Avenger_D230_Super_Clamp_Grip_Head.html

I'm thinking of trying one of these to clamp from an overhead light bar. The clamp is a little pricey, but should allow me to fabricate an extention bar on the cheap (parts list = a 5' length of pipe, a 3/8" bolt, 2-part epoxy & some black spray paint).

I own one of these. Nice clamp, but really HEAVY! You definitely need a safety cable if you use this puppy.


I will take you up on the safety cable advice, a sensible investment for sure. Nice work on those articulating rigs BTW, very impressive ...+T's all around (if i could). The "Avenger" clamp is probably better suited for situations more like what I'm looking at, where I hope to drop straight down from an overhead bar. I have some metal electrical conduit laying around I might experiment with for the drop-down ...comes in 1/2" dia, it's light and rigid but also easy to work with. I can 'peen' the ends with a chisel prior to setting the epoxy, this will hopefully secure the bolt from twisting or slipping out on me.
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Offline georgeh

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2009, 10:57:05 AM »
http://www.adorama.com/GTBHMWQR.html?sid=123549078234555
if you have some extra cash, not cheap. but does a great job of helping level out a tbar from the balcony
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2009, 01:06:31 PM »

I own one of these. Nice clamp, but really HEAVY! You definitely need a safety cable if you use this puppy.


I will take you up on the safety cable advice, a sensible investment for sure.

http://www.peaktrading.com/productpages/default.aspx?ProductPageId=1658

There are others, just search Google for "lighting safety cable."
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Walter

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. Will Rogers


MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2010, 08:39:06 PM »



...bump...
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline willndmb

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2010, 01:45:01 PM »

I own one of these. Nice clamp, but really HEAVY! You definitely need a safety cable if you use this puppy.


I will take you up on the safety cable advice, a sensible investment for sure.

http://www.peaktrading.com/productpages/default.aspx?ProductPageId=1658

There are others, just search Google for "lighting safety cable."
i have always wondered if people did this
seems like the smart thing for sure
hook one on the tbar/mics/shocks and another on the extension/rail
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2010, 01:58:55 PM »
I use the safety cable when balcony clamping but I also use gaffer tape to tape over every connection (kwonbar to clamp, clamp to rapid adapter, rapid adapter to extension pole, pole to clamp, etc.) just to make sure there is virtually zero possibility of something dropping onto a concertgoer's head (and hence ending clamping at that venue). 

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2010, 04:38:55 PM »
I use the safety cable when balcony clamping but I also use gaffer tape to tape over every connection (kwonbar to clamp, clamp to rapid adapter, rapid adapter to extension pole, pole to clamp, etc.) just to make sure there is virtually zero possibility of something dropping onto a concertgoer's head (and hence ending clamping at that venue).

I'm always paranoid about that when I clamp.

I've got one "lighting safety cable", and then some biners and climbing rope (6mm ice line) with figure8 knots that I use to connect to the shock mount end when I use my arm. I havn't picked up the 3 or 4 small cables that would be needed to make it seamless.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2010, 06:20:12 PM »
Fishing leader would make good small safety cables. Its light and strong.
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MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2010, 06:35:10 PM »
And you can reel in a whopper of a recording.

We use lots of heavy-test monofilament as lanyards for stuff attached to boat equipment so you can't drop parts in the water.  The clear plastic line doesn't scratch up the gear. Make end loops with nicro-press crimp sleeves and attach latching clips or carbiners to one or both loops. 
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2011, 04:37:05 AM »
Is those vertical slats round or rectangular?

If rectangular, I would use something like shown below, which will get you out a few inches.  Standard clamp from the hardware store with a 3/8" hole drilled through it.
If round, bogan super clamp, or windtech C-clamp, without any other extensions.

I wouldn't worry too much about going out and down.  I would try to clamp as low as I conveniently could on that bar, and between the t-bar and your shock mounts, this will get you a little below toe level.



For times like that, you need the wood screw that comes w/ the Rowi 73 and 103. Then you clamp onto it and run from any wood fixtures that are already beat up. like the pic you have of that beat up wooden post thats prob DFC ;) I have used my wood screw a few times and it works PERFECTLY for places that dont mind a small hole in their establishment ;D
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Offline bonghitwillie

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2011, 09:00:18 PM »
i would wrap each mic in a towel and slip it in between the columns.  i used to do that i long time ago.  now i use lav mics.

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2011, 09:06:02 PM »
Heres a cheap clamp I just bought

www.photogitems.com/Mini_Tripod_p/5800.htm
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
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Offline newplanet7

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2011, 09:59:19 PM »
Heres a cheap clamp I just bought

www.photogitems.com/Mini_Tripod_p/5800.htm
Nice. I dig that. You can use it as a nice little tabletop stand too I see.
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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2011, 10:57:58 PM »
Yeah, only downsize is the body of it is plastic :P
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

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Offline spaceman.project

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2017, 11:04:13 AM »
Wanted to say thanks for all the advice and details on this thread. Learned a lot!  I am recording my first balcony set next week and will be trying a few new toys.  I will likely not be using windscreens as it is indoors, but just testing the full rig out.  Probably a few small adapters that aren't called out here, but mostly covered.

Nakamichi CM-300 + CP1 Cards >
Movo WSTT50 Windscreens>
Darktrain Stubbie XLR's >
BC Master Universal Microphone Shock Mount - SM22(20-22mm) >
On Stage MY700 Stereo Microphone Bar >
Impact Rapid Baby to 3/8" Male Threaded Adapter>
Manfrotto 196B-2 143BKT 2-Section Single Articulated Arm>
Manfrotto 035RL Super Clamp

Recording:
Tascam DR-60DmkII (not pictured)
Naztech PB 15000 (not pictured)

Video
Sony Rx 100m2 >On Stage CM01 Video Camera/Digital Recorder Adapter
>On Stage CM01 Video Camera/Digital Recorder Adapter

Panasonic HC‑V770 >On Stage CM01 Video Camera/Digital Recorder Adapter (pictured, but will be replaced w/ below)>
On Stage CM01 Video Camera/Digital Recorder Adapter>
1/4"Female-3/8"Female spigot adapter>
Manfrotto 035RL Super Clamp

Just purchased one of these for the camcorder for easy panning.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071H58ZBB/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Offline heathen

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Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2017, 12:31:54 PM »
I will likely not be using windscreens as it is indoors
Can't hurt to bring them, though, in case you're near some kind of HVAC turned up to 11.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | Countryman B3s | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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