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Author Topic: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)  (Read 13357 times)

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Online Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« on: June 03, 2017, 05:51:50 PM »
So I did some more testing with the USB batteries with the MP6 and I have and found some interesting results. I haven't done any run times on these, but will try to today (or soon).

I purchased a Anker PowerCore 20100 to use with this. It (sort of) works. Details on what I have below (and what happens when I use it with my MP6):

1. Anker PowerCore 20100: Powers the unit with a FULL GREEN USB power bar. I get a very brief (1ms) flash that says USB-C Power is low warning. Also get this if I unplug one of the USB-A sides. It seems to work fine since I have the AA's in there to fail back to, but very annoying to have the warning flash every few seconds. This unit claims to output 2.4amps on each USB output. Maybe I got a bad battery. Anyone have this issue with this battery?

2. Jackery Giant+ Premium 12,000 mAh Dual. Powers the unit with ORANGE USB power bar. This unit claims to output 2.1amps on 1 USB / 1A on the other USB. I wouldn't use this unless I was desperate.

3. Tecknet iEP390. Amazingly this seems to work the best. Powers the unit with a FULL GREEN USB power bar. Unfortunately it's no longer available to buy. Capacity is 9000mAh. This unit claims to output 2.1amps on 1 USB / 1A on the other.


On paper #1 seems like it there should be no issues...and the MP6 records audio with no issues with this battery.

On paper #3 should be the worst...but it works the best. Another bonus...it's small and fits in my bag easily. 9000mAh should get me though any normal show.

I'd really like to find a USB-C battery where I can just use 1 single USB-C to USB-C cable.

I can see why SD isn't making a list of "approved" USB batteries. The #'s on these things don't seem to add up.

So...feel free to add to the list. What do you have that is working for you and what doesn't.
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Offline johnw

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 06:04:21 PM by johnw »
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2017, 08:02:57 PM »
^
Thanks for the link.

Are the sleds for the Sony style batteries shipping too?  I hope to see my MP-6 next week.
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2017, 09:04:14 PM »
The powercore 20100 says 4.8 output and the powercore + says 6
I wonder since the plus model is approved by SD that the extra output juice is required for full functionality.
The batteries seem the same with exception to the total output power
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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 12:16:24 AM »
^
Thanks for the link.

Are the sleds for the Sony style batteries shipping too?  I hope to see my MP-6 next week.

Yes, got mine earlier this week from B&H
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Offline johnw

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2017, 12:21:07 AM »
The powercore 20100 says 4.8 output and the powercore + says 6
I wonder since the plus model is approved by SD that the extra output juice is required for full functionality.
The batteries seem the same with exception to the total output power

Actually it is 2.4 A for the 20100 and 3A for the + model. So the + model delivers 15W (5Vx3A) that the Mix Pre 3/6 seem to require.
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Online rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2017, 03:12:07 AM »
My conclusion is the best route is to use a battery equipped with USB-c output and a USB-c to USB-c cable. The optional AC power supply delivers 5v @ 3Amps (15 watts), which is what the USB-c Anker battery they suggest outputs. This probably is what the unit would like to see.


I bought one of these for testing

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16240

Output 2: USB-C 5V/3A



SD says the unit need 7.5 watts 5v x 1.5 amps) - this is probably the minimum needed.

The limiting factor with using a USB-c to USB-A cable and  USB-A centric battery appears to me to be the cable. These cables must be limiting amperage to .9 - 1 amp. I was also under the impression USB batteries could output 2.1-2.4 but only some cables will actually pass this through. The dual USB-a cable gets around this by doubling the amperage. I ran tonight with both USB-a end connected to the same battery and did not get warnings and have a full green plug.

Ted found two USB-C to USB-A cables that work with his current batteries. These must pass through the full amperage.  As far as I an tell this goes against the safety precautions that should be a USB-A to USB-c cable but these cables also have downwards USB-c connectors and are very appealing fro ma cable point of view
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 03:40:41 AM by rippleish20 »
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Online rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2017, 03:20:40 AM »
So I did some more testing with the USB batteries with the MP6 and I have and found some interesting results. I haven't done any run times on these, but will try to today (or soon).

I purchased a Anker PowerCore 20100 to use with this. It (sort of) works. Details on what I have below (and what happens when I use it with my MP6):

   
3. Tecknet iEP390. Amazingly this seems to work the best. Powers the unit with a FULL GREEN USB power bar. Unfortunately it's no longer available to buy. Capacity is 9000mAh. This unit claims to output 2.1amps on 1 USB / 1A on the other.
 

Is this using the dual USB-a cord or a single USB-A cable?
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 07:37:12 AM »

Pro-Sound (NYC) is a distributor for the UK based Hawk-Woods company.  I sent Hawk-Woods a message asking about other USA distributors for these two SD approved Hawk-Woods products for the new MixPre 3/6 series.  I also sent Pro-Sound a message inquiring on pricing for the above two items.  I purchased my Aeta 4MinX from Justin @ Pro-Sound.  Unfortunately Justin no longer works there.

http://www.pro-sound.com/c/hawk-woods.html


Two of the powering choices from the SD recommended power list:

D-Tap to L-mount adapter for use with the optional MX-LMount battery sled.
See http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-05.

The LR-05 allows the user to power Sony NPF cameras/equipment from an external power source. The dummy NPF battery contains an 8V regulator allowing batteries of 14.4v to run 7.2-8v cameras/equipment for a much greater run-time.

Power-con (D-Tap) - 45cm - Sony Type NPF dummy battery


Hirose to L-mount adapter for use with the optional MX-LMount battery sled.
See http://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Prods/Product/LR-06.

Hirose 4-pin (male) - Sony NPF Dummy (45cm) 8V Regulated

The LR-06 is a dummy battery which allows the user to use a higher capacity external power source for greatly extended run times. Ideal when powering cameras such as NEX-FS700, PMW-EX1 & PMW-EX3.

45cm Length
8V regulated
Hirose 4 pin Male
Mini DV (NPF/L-Series) Dummy Battery



« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 08:30:50 AM by dactylus »
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2017, 08:03:06 AM »

The limiting factor with using a USB-c to USB-A cable and  USB-A centric battery appears to me to be the cable. These cables must be limiting amperage to .9 - 1 amp. I was also under the impression USB batteries could output 2.1-2.4 but only some cables will actually pass this through. The dual USB-a cable gets around this by doubling the amperage. I ran tonight with both USB-a end connected to the same battery and did not get warnings and have a full green plug.

Ted found two USB-C to USB-A cables that work with his current batteries. These must pass through the full amperage.  As far as I an tell this goes against the safety precautions that should be a USB-A to USB-c cable but these cables also have downwards USB-c connectors and are very appealing fro ma cable point of view

Here is an extensive article on the proper USB-C cables with the required 56K ohm Pull-up Resistor. Apparently even if the 56K ohm Pull-up Resistor is present, it may not be set up correctly!

http://www.androidauthority.com/usb-type-c-and-3-1-explained-656552/

And here is a guy who tests these cables and rates them for proper setup:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/profile/amzn1.account.AFLICGQRF6BRJGH2RRD4VGMB47ZA?ie=UTF8&ref_=cm_cr_rev_detpdp
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Online rippleish20

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2017, 11:34:29 AM »

The limiting factor with using a USB-c to USB-A cable and  USB-A centric battery appears to me to be the cable. These cables must be limiting amperage to .9 - 1 amp. I was also under the impression USB batteries could output 2.1-2.4 but only some cables will actually pass this through. The dual USB-a cable gets around this by doubling the amperage. I ran tonight with both USB-a end connected to the same battery and did not get warnings and have a full green plug.

Ted found two USB-C to USB-A cables that work with his current batteries. These must pass through the full amperage.  As far as I an tell this goes against the safety precautions that should be a USB-A to USB-c cable but these cables also have downwards USB-c connectors and are very appealing fro ma cable point of view

Here is an extensive article on the proper USB-C cables with the required 56K ohm Pull-up Resistor. Apparently even if the 56K ohm Pull-up Resistor is present, it may not be set up correctly!

http://www.androidauthority.com/usb-type-c-and-3-1-explained-656552/

And here is a guy who tests these cables and rates them for proper setup:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/profile/amzn1.account.AFLICGQRF6BRJGH2RRD4VGMB47ZA?ie=UTF8&ref_=cm_cr_rev_detpdp

I tried one of the cables that he highly recommended , with the resistor , and it doesn't work. From my reading the resistor provides protection against too high of a current difference between the USB-a side and the USB-c side, but should allow for sufficient amperage to pass through for our needs and yet it doesn't work. I don't entirely understand the subtleties =. I suspect the cables Ted found dont provide the resistors and just pass the power though. This may be fine but its the same problem the google engineer found with cables before he started reviewing them.

The l-mount alternative is a good one but the stuff is cumbersome in my opinion. It would allow me to use the USB-0c port for streaming however, so I will probably try this also
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Offline jbell

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2017, 01:00:12 PM »
Bought mine Friday and it has already shipped!  Got it from B&H

^
Thanks for the link.

Are the sleds for the Sony style batteries shipping too?  I hope to see my MP-6 next week.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2017, 01:17:29 PM »

I tried one of the cables that he highly recommended , with the resistor , and it doesn't work.

Which cable didn't work?

I'm probably ordering this one:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01A6F3WHG/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AREE309N4XPXI&psc=1

It's an Anker cable so I figure it should have a good chance of working.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Mix-Pre 3/6 USB Batteries (what works and what doesn't)
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2017, 01:42:28 PM »
I have a question about AC wall adapters for when I'll be using the MP6 indoors for many hours.

The Sound Devices AC Adapter- MX-Charge is listed as 17W.

Would any USB-C adapter/charger with a rating above 17w probably work as well?

Such as this Anker 24W:

https://www.amazon.ca/PowerIQ-Anker-Charger-PowerPort-included/dp/B01CJ90J6O/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

There's also a very cheap Ravpower which comes with online warnings about using it with high-draw devices. This is from an Amazon reviewer:

https://www.amazon.ca/Type-C-Charger-RAVPower-MacBook-iSmart/product-reviews/B01M0J689A/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

"As others have pointed out, the microchip inside the charger was incorrectly programmed so it does not limit itself to the rated output (36W). However, if you plug in devices that do not pull more than 36W of power, you will be fine. I use it as secondary chargers for my Macbook 12" and smartphones and the charger barely gets warm. So if you have Macbook Pro or Dell XPS, stay away from this charger - it's not rated high enough for your devices anyway and because of the flaw, it can be dangerous."

Would I be okay using it with the MP6 as an AC adapter or am I courting danger?

"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

 

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