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Author Topic: clean AC power...WOW  (Read 20838 times)

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Offline macdaddy

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2006, 02:07:47 PM »
is $100 a good price..?

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akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline gewwang

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2006, 03:56:23 PM »
I just got mine last week from amazon for $175 which is $125 after the monster rebate. So $100 is a great price.

Offline F0CKER

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2006, 08:26:09 PM »
after reading this thread I picked up the Monster 3500mkii...yeah, I'm impressed.  Bigger soundstage, low end much more defined.  Thanks for the recommendation. $110 with rebate....well worth it.
Nevaton MC49 -> Sonosax SX-R4

Offline scervin

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2006, 07:16:43 AM »
This is what is in PS Audio's latest newsletter regarding PC's:

Why amp manufacturers say "don't"!
I've been asked to writer a little piece explaining why some amplifier
manufacturers still insist on putting warnings in their owner's manuals
about connecting their equipment to a power conditioner. New owners are
warned to plug directly into the wall because these designers "built
their equipment to sound best when powered without any interference from
an inline power conditioner". Or so the line goes.

Over the last 30 something years of designing amplifiers myself, I too
have been guilty of writing the same thing for PS Audio amplifiers. So
I can relate to their thinking processes and understand why they would
warn folks.

First, let's get something clear: no amp manufacturer or designer wants
anything more than to make sure you are happy with your amp purchase.
Let's face it; it's in their best interest for you to love their
product. So, to many designers it's just a safe bet to have as few variables
as possible and so it's a bit of CYA. Better safe than having to answer
a bunch of questions when things don't go right.

But why did I write those warning words before PS Audio invented the
world's first power regenerator? Simple: up to that point most power
conditioners made things worse. Unfortunately, not a lot has changed in the
meantime so today's amp manufacturers figure it's a safe bet to tell
their customers "just plug directly into the wall".

I remember, in fact, the very first power conditioners I listened to
(way back when) and my reaction was always the same: yuck. Bleached,
restricted sound. Gimme the wall socket back and quick!

But progress was at hand: to my delight, Bruce Brisson's MIT company
came out with the first power conditioner box that worked. It was called
the Z Stabilizer and it was a parallel device (nothing in series) that
didn't do a whole lot, but what it did - it did well and this box was
the piece that got me thinking about the possibilities of AC power "done
right" in the first place. Thanks Bruce!

So, with most power conditioners adding something sonically destructive
in series with the AC line, it's no wonder that some amp manufacturers
still insist on folks going with a direct plug in scenario. In fact,
think about this: even if the power conditioner you use doesn't actually
do anything good or bad (I'm not pointing fingers here, but they exist)
you have just added another power cable and its connectors to the amp
chain. Can't be better.

Several power conditioner manufacturers have "solved" this problem of
destructive series elements in the AC path by going the route of the old
Z Stabilizer: parallel. In a parallel processor like the Shunyata,
Richard Grey and Audience products (as examples) there's little to no
restriction to the power path and so damage is minimal. That's the good
news: unfortunately, there's not much real conditioning that can take place
with a parallel device. Just the nature of power physics.

But not all series devices are bad. If you're going to use a series
device so you can achieve a greater level of cleaning, like our UPC-200 or
UO products, it is critical that they do not restrict the power with
over-filtering (as so many do). One by one we've had great success
demonstrating how these properly designed products don't degrade the sound,
but rather improve it. It just takes time for word to get around. Over
filtering produces the bleached and anemic sound I wrote about above.

A regenerator, like the Power Plant, is a horse of a different color
however. Here, the opposite of restriction is happening because compared
to the wall socket, a Power Plant is less restrictive! That's right,
the raw wall socket is more restricted than a Power Plant's output - so
plugging directly into the wall outlet is never as good as a Power Plant
because we supply stored energy that regulates and lowers impedance to
the connected equipment. This stored energy is NOT available through
the wall socket. So amp manufacturers are actually hurting their case
when they lump all conditioners together into one bag of 'no, no's'. Not
all products fall into the same category of performance.

In any case, I thought it might be instructive to know why amp
manufacturers continue to suggest folks plug straight in. They're being safe.
Let's face it, there's plenty of bad power conditioning equipment out
there still and yes, it's worse to use a bad conditioner than going
straight into the wall. Beware.




Offline ford prefect

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2006, 08:50:20 PM »
Bump. 

I live in Cambridge, MA - old buildings, old wiring.  Even on my cheap computer speakers I could hear an audbible hum.  We live on the 3rd floor of 3, so this summer my roommates and I were running A/C an awful lot and blowing fuses way too much.  I started getting worried about my computer and playback equipment - I put way too much money into that stuff to destroy it with all these spikes.  Plus, I've started recording in 24bit recently and I don't want to hear the microwave hum through my speakers while I enjoy last night's work in full detail!   ;)

Enter the APC H10.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=H10BLK

Throw on the Sennheiser cans ...  and ... yup! ... Nick said it all.

Quote from: NicksPicks
the music started up and caught me by surprise.  it seemed to just materialize out of thin air. you hear about "blackness" in the background ...low level noisefloor..etc.  now I fully understand what that is *supposed* to be like.

Worth every penny!

Offline pfife

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2006, 09:13:33 PM »
+T for toys.  I wanna get into one of these, but no space and no money.
 :-\
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2006, 07:55:42 AM »
nice.
i'm fuckin'A articuliceous ain't I?

Offline macdaddy

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2006, 08:56:23 AM »
hey, ford p - what is the price of that unit..?

tim (if you are reading) - how does this thing compare to that furutech thing we bought a while ago (i still use mine)...?

-macdaddy ++

akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline Daryan

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2006, 10:08:20 AM »
Balanced Power is where it is at.  Check the equitech, BPT, or DIY and you will be amazed.
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline ford prefect

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2006, 02:10:35 PM »
hey, ford p - what is the price of that unit..?

I got mine from YesMicro.  It was the cheapest vendor according to Froogle.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=h10blk&hl=en&btnG=Search&lmode=online&scoring=p

About $260 shipped.  More than most people paid for theirs, but I use APC's equipment a lot at work and I really trust their name.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 03:54:50 PM by ford prefect »

Offline Tim

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2006, 04:37:41 PM »
hey, ford p - what is the price of that unit..?

tim (if you are reading) - how does this thing compare to that furutech thing we bought a while ago (i still use mine)...?



I'm still using the furutech, I live in a 90 year old loft now and I still get complete blackness :)

I'd like to hear some of these other products though, especially anything with surge protection


« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 04:47:15 PM by Tim »
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Stagger

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Re: clean AC power...WOW
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2006, 03:29:11 AM »
I run a Panamax M5510Pro AC power regenerator. Granted I sell stereo equipment for a living so I don't pay retail for my gear but it makes a hell of a difference... esp on tube gear where fluctuations in ac can mess up bias and reduce tube life. As for the Amp question, most quailty AC conditioners have a high current outlet or two that bypass any regen and much of the filtering to avoid current limiting issues. Steer clear of any models that don't have this feature.
Selling: SD 722
Current Setup: AKG c34 > S42 > Kimber Hero > DR-680

Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

Playback: Denon DVD3910>Audio Experiences Symphonies Tube Pre [Electro-Harmonix/12AX7 Gold Pin ]>Rogue 88 Amplifier [Genalex Gold Lion KT88s, ultralinear]>Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home & Martin Logan Depth i - AudioQuest Jaguar and CV-8 DBS cable, Panamax M7500Pro conditioner.

 

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