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Author Topic: neumann 184 set up  (Read 7290 times)

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Offline pnobles

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neumann 184 set up
« on: January 05, 2004, 07:52:17 PM »
hey all
I was wondering how you 184 owners place your mics ?  I have had them for a little while now and have tried a few different stereo placements.  I have not been totally pleased with the mics i must say.  they have made some GREAT recordings, but every now and then i get crap.  i am aware that alot depends on the room and location of the PA & mics.  I have run several different brands of mics and do not remember such a wide change in sound with each recording i make.  i am looking at different preamps but yes i am on the poor ass college budget.  thanks for reading.
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Offline Tim

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2004, 08:00:08 PM »
I always like the neumann small diaphragms run ortf outside or in good sounding rooms. DIN most often indoors.

I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline John R

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2004, 09:09:02 PM »
love mine.  x/y or ortf inside.  din or nutter outdoors

jr
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Offline dklein

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2004, 01:50:06 PM »
I'm also still getting a feel for mine but have been very pleased.  I say fuck the standard configurations.  The more I read about microphones and techniques, the more I understand that we are using them in a completely unconventional way.  The main issue that I have with standard stereo configs is that they are intended to be used at much closer distances than we are generally allowed to set up.  I record at clubs and bars from 20-60 ft back.  

Firstly, from limited experience, I don't seem to like the sound of coincident techniques.

On the near-coincident setups, I saw some charts recently that described the required change in included angle and mic spacing relative to recording distance,  Well, not really the distance from the source but specifically, the 'recording angle' i.e. how wide the p.a./stage appears to your mic position).

So as you move back from the stage, the recording angle narrows and you can do 2 things to return the balance:
1) increase distance b/w mics
2) narrow the included angle

So you might like something closer to DIN (90 degrees, 30 cm -edit- 20 cm) if you want to stick to a standard technique.  I've usually been coming in a little narrower (80 degrees) and 20-25 cm.

What is it that you're not liking? - any samples?
Are you recording in the same venue all the time?

Might be worth heading out one night with the intent of running a few techniques from a few locations in the venue and then evaluate at home.  Worked for me!

Now if you're stealthing up close, perhaps the standard configs are where it's at.  But you're not likely stealthing 184s unless you got some kinda crazy hat.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2005, 01:33:39 AM by dklein »
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline Tim

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2004, 02:00:29 PM »
30cm/90* is NOS

okay, now you make some very good points. when you get into the room sometimes you need to make some adjustments, reducing the angle can help tremendously. play around and tape as much stuff as you can.

I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Rob D.

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2004, 02:49:16 PM »
...I have not been totally pleased with the mics i must say.  they have made some GREAT recordings, but every now and then i get crap...

I'd say this is par for course! I would expect those odds unless you're recording in optimal venues every time. The best mics money can buy will still record crap!  :'(

Offline dklein

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2004, 03:03:53 PM »
30cm/90* is NOS

damn!  just when I thought I had 'em memorized - thanks for the correction.

In any case, I was basically saying try a narrower angle and/or wider spacing and see if it's more pleasing.
KM 184 > V2 > R4
older recording gear: UA-5  / emagic A62 / laptop / JB3 / CSB / AD20 / Sharp MT-90 / Sony MDS-JE510
Playback: Pioneer DV-578 > Lucid DA 9624 >many funny little british boxes > Linn Isobarik PMS

Offline Tim

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2004, 03:08:34 PM »
yes, great point and I totally agree... just trying to keep the verbage clear!
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline pnobles

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2004, 07:29:43 PM »
isn't there an angle that rolls off bass better then others?  i remember hearing about a smaller angle or wide angle/ spacing will effect the bass to some extent.   any guidance for bassy rooms vs. out door venues?   next show i will do some comps.
Patrick Nobles
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Offline Swampy

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2004, 08:01:21 PM »
Im pretty sure xy helps get rid of a little bass doesnt it?

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2004, 10:04:28 AM »
isn't there an angle that rolls off bass better then others?

What preamp are you using?  I ran 184s for a few years with an MV100 and the bass would seem too much at times and a little sloppy.  When I moved to a V2 that went away and the bass was always tight and right.  

I ran mostly XY with the 84s and I would run a tighter angle the further away I got from the stage.  The 184s have a bass roll-off as you get off axis.  Try pointing your mics a little wide of the stage instead of directly at the stacks.

When you had other mics, you probably had mics not this good and that could be why you didn't hear a difference between different rooms and configurations.  The better the mic, the more detail and the more often you're gonna get a tape that shows off the poor sound of the PA or room.

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2004, 10:17:26 AM »
isn't there an angle that rolls off bass better then others?

What preamp are you using?  I ran 184s for a few years with an MV100 and the bass would seem too much at times and a little sloppy.  When I moved to a V2 that went away and the bass was always tight and right.  

I ran mostly XY with the 84s and I would run a tighter angle the further away I got from the stage.  The 184s have a bass roll-off as you get off axis.  Try pointing your mics a little wide of the stage instead of directly at the stacks.

When you had other mics, you probably had mics not this good and that could be why you didn't hear a difference between different rooms and configurations.  The better the mic, the more detail and the more often you're gonna get a tape that shows off the poor sound of the PA or room.



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Offline thoman8r

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2004, 11:05:47 AM »
isn't there an angle that rolls off bass better then others?  i remember hearing about a smaller angle or wide angle/ spacing will effect the bass to some extent.   any guidance for bassy rooms vs. out door venues?   next show i will do some comps.

This is sort of the blind leading the blind here, and one of the experts on here can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's always been my understanding that the bigger area of the room you pick up, the more bass you will have, due to the fact that bass is omnidirectional.  So I think what you might want to try Pat, is picking up less room by pointing the mics more at the stacks.

Also, lots of bass isn't always a bad thing, you can always roll it off in post-production.  Plus, doesn't the ua-5 have a 40 hz bass-rolloff setting?
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Offline pnobles

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2004, 11:25:12 AM »
not that i am aware of - but hoping by march 26 i might have a V2 ( or V3 )  

happy birthday to me ....  anyone ?
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Offline thoman8r

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Re:neumann 184 set up
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2004, 11:33:04 AM »
Can't help you with the v3 but if you are selling the ua-5 let me know  :)
"No. Don't call me a hero. Do you know who the real heroes are? The guys who wake up every morning and go in their normal jobs and get a distress call from the commissioner and take off their glasses and change into capes and fly around fighting crime. Those are the real heroes."
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