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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: aysvideo on July 08, 2014, 02:03:13 AM
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I record live music, mostly jazz, into a Tascam HS-P82, running anywhere from 3 to 8 mics on any given night. For editing/mixing, I use an old version of Adobe Audition (v 1.5), and basically do simple mixes, only because I've never really invested the time to learn how much more the program can do, and actually sometimes find it a little intimidating. I downloaded Audition 3.0 for free, but haven't even gotten into it because a lot of folks tell me it sucks. Anyway, I've been thinking of exploring other programs, and was wondering what other folks are using these days. I'm looking for something that's easy to learn, and would allow me to do the standard stuff such as level adjustment, L/R mixing, editing, fades, noise reduction, etc. I don't see myself going all the way to a program like Pro Tools, because I suspect it's way over my head and more than what I need and would like to spend. I should say this is only a hobby, so there's no need for me to go crazy with this. If there's a logical next step from Audition, I'd love to hear about it. To sum it up, I guess I'm looking for the lazy man's way of getting the most out of an audio program, without having to take a college course to learn how to use it. I'm open to suggestions, so feel free to fire away and enlighten me. Thanks.
Randy
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Reaper, http://www.reaper.fm/
Cross platform, affordable, free trial.
Everything you need for multitrack mixing, supports VST plugins
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Reaper, http://www.reaper.fm/
Cross platform, affordable, free trial.
Everything you need for multitrack mixing, supports VST plugins
I dunno - if he's never gotten into Audition 3 - not sure Reaper is going to serve much better...just as high a learning curve as any...
I dont really see any reason to get into that kind of software unless you are working with a LOT of channels and doing roundtrip mixes/overdubs.
OP - Have you tried Audacity? It's very simple, and doesn't really use a mix-surface paradigm. I'd try Audacity until it felt limiting...
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
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Audacity may be your best best.
Another alternative is Hindenburg. It was developed for people creating radio shows. It's fantastic software, works on both Mac and Windows. Since I mainly create things involving spoken word and ambient sounds, this software is perfect for me. It has purposefully taken away many of the features of something like ProTools and others which are completely overkill in radio production. It's certainly possible that it does not have a feature or two that you need, but it's at least worth a look:
http://hindenburg.com
I find Hindenburg both simpler and better to use than Audacity, but your requirements are a bit different from mine so it may be that Audacity still ends up being your best choice.
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I don't really understand. Doesn't Audition do everything you need it to do? I find it simple to use for what I need it for...though I WISH I understood everything is capable of.
Obviously, you're doing 3 to 8 channel mixing, so you can't go back to just the real basic software packages. Just because Audition 1.5 has more features that you don't know how to use, why do you want something else that is simpler just becuase you don't know how to use all of the power of Audition? Just ignore the extra features of Audition and it will seem more simple to use.
I personally think the idea of going from Audition to Audacity is crazy...those two products are galaxies apart. Yes, Audacity is simpler, but as others have mentioned it's also frustratringly limiting. I spend 5 minutes with Audacity and I'm ready to kill myself, but that's probably because I've been using Audition for so long.
For what it's worth, I also thought Audition 3.0 was crap because there's a bug in a fairly oft-used function that causes Audition to crash. The bug is repeatable though, so once I learned to work around the steps that cause the bug, my machine never crashes anymore. There are a couple of features of 3.0 that I REALLY like over 1.5 that make me realize I wouldn't want to revert back.
PS: For anyone that's interested, the Audition 3.0 bug I mentioned above is the function where you can test listen to a new setting (filter, amplification, etc) without actually making the changes to the file. If you invoke this function, after you listen to the new setting, Audition crashes on my machine maybe 80% of the time. So, as a work-around, instead of test listening I actually apply the change to a small section of my music file and then listen to the changes. If I don't like the new setting, I use 'undo' to change it back. Once I'm happy with the new setting, I apply the change to the entire piece of the file that I want to change. It's a simple work-around really.
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Give Audacity a try. It doesn't have graphical EQ you can tweak while you listen which is common in most tools, but for doing basic multi track mixing it's simple. It's free so why not.
I got a good deal on Samplitude and like it when I want to do EQ but I really don't do that much but it's something to consider, as is Reaper, but I haven't used it much.
No reason not to try Audacity. Even with commercial products available I bet you'll find you use it a lot for basic stuff anyway once you work with it a bit.
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Reaper
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Unfortunately, I find no multitrack editor I've used is super intuitive or really works the way I think. I used Audacity somewhat many years ago, Goldwave a few times, Cool Edit Pro before Adobe bought it and it became Audition, Samplitude v10 the most (have a new version of Samplitude but haven't used it). It is very powerful and can do most everything, but I get frustrated trying to figuring out how to make it do what I want. Especially simple stuff sometimes. I know exactly what I want to do, and how to do in technical terms, just not how to make it happen in the software, or the implications of doing it one way instead of another, stuff like that. Part of it is that I've just never put in enough time to master the basic navigation and manipulation skills to use the software efficiently. I am always focused on getting higher level things accomplished and sort of fumble my way through it to make those things happen. Sort of like typing a novel using the hunt-and-peck single finger typing method. The end result is the same but the effort to get there is 10-times what it should be for a well adapted user.
I often wish these things would have some sort of display map of the signal flow routing paths with the ability of inserting plug-ins or routing components or meters or whatever anywhere along the paths.
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I often wish these things would have some sort of display map of the signal flow routing paths with the ability of inserting plug-ins or routing components or meters or whatever anywhere along the paths.
I don't know that the second half of what you're asking for exists, other than creating something from scratch in Max. The first half definitely does though - again, it's Reaper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhqK3562Zs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhqK3562Zs)
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Unfortunately, I find no multitrack editor I've used is super intuitive
This. When I went from 2ch to 8ch recording (also on the hs-p82), I went from Audacity to Reaper and sucked up the couple solid weekends it took to really learn how to use it. There isn't really a way around that, you're working up to needing professional knowledge and tools to get better at what you're doing, and to do that, you just bite the bullet and spend time learning. It's not hard, and the Reaper documentation and forums are really robust.
The frustrating part about mixing on Audacity is the preview function of effects. The rest of it is ok, but if you're doing anything other than just dropping tracks on and adjusting levels, you'll need something else.
edit: just realized I hit send on the post and had a wicked incomplete thought there... fixed. :-[
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This is a good tutorial video on Reaper. http://www.groove3.com/str/reaper-4-explained.html
The problem with Reaper is it can do so many things that aren't at all obvious. You pretty much need something or someone to show you what's under the hood. The Reaper license is affordable and leaves money to buy the training video.
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I often wish these things would have some sort of display map of the signal flow routing paths with the ability of inserting plug-ins or routing components or meters or whatever anywhere along the paths.
Propellerhead's Reason and Record use a virtual patch panel, hit tab and the interface flips to the back panel, all inputs and outputs are represented, with drag and drop patching between them (nice 1/4" graphics theme)
Reason's pretty nice, haven't tried Record.
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I have WaveLab/SoundForge, and a few others. And I have strictly used WaveLab for over 10+ years now. I have used it since 3.0 I believe, and I now use 6.0! I have 7.0LE, and I fn HATED that they changed the format. I will continue to use WL6 until I can no longer use it :)
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Reaper:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhqK3562Zs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfhqK3562Zs)
Watched a few of those. Thanks for the link. I need to find similar videos for Samplitude. Reaper keeps looking like a strong possible alternative.
This is a good tutorial video on Reaper. http://www.groove3.com/str/reaper-4-explained.html
Haven't watched this one yet.
Reason and Record use a virtual patch panel, hit tab and the interface flips to the back panel, all inputs and outputs are represented, with drag and drop patching between them (nice 1/4" graphics theme)
I've heard about that feature in Reason but have never used the program. Cool interface idea.
Booth the routing matrix and the virtual patch panel seem like well implemented and functional ideas. My initial concept was line conected boxes on a white-board, sort of like an interactive circuit diagram or flow chart.
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The thing about Reaper is that there's no commitment to try it. The free "evaluation version" is actually the full program. After 60 days it gives you a nag screen when you open it, but everything still functions as normal. Paying your $60 just gets rid of the nag screen and instead says "Licensed to _________ " when you run it.
I also like the custom layouts / themes. This is the one I've been using for the past year:
http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reaper/imperial/wt_imperial.html (http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reaper/imperial/wt_imperial.html)
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Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and comments. This all giving me reason to get off my ___ and first investigate some of the things Audition can do that I was previously too lazy and technophobic to look into. No reason to blow money on a new program if what I have will serve my needs, which probably are very basic, compared to the real power of a lot of these programs.
Randy
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I often wish these things would have some sort of display map of the signal flow routing paths with the ability of inserting plug-ins or routing components or meters or whatever anywhere along the paths.
Hi Gut
While not a multitrack editor, Audiomulch works exactly this way. It is incredibly fun to use and create multiple signal processing paths by dragging and dropping different VST plug ins and other audio processing blocks onto the work area and quickly "wiring" them together with mouse clicks. Maybe you've already seen it, if not it's fun to play with the free trial version to check it out.
http://www.audiomulch.com (http://www.audiomulch.com)
Miq
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Audiomulch
That was lingering in the back of my mind. Heard about it but have never used it. I'll have to check it out sometime. Thanks
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Another vote for Reaper. There are a couple nice video programs which you can buy fairly cheap, about $30 for various levels of instruction, easy to moderate and advanced.
Also Adobe Audition cc is pretty good.
I use both
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I just tried to d/l audacity from the link runonce gave above, and my Kaspersky PURE 3.0 denied it, saying it had a Trojan... I am a total beginer at this and need a simple 2 track audio editing/mixing program for a dummie. Any suggestions? Should I try Audition? I am running windows 8
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Did you try some of the other versions of Audacity - zip vs exe, some of the older versions or alternative download sites to see if Kaspersky also flags them?
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows
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Did you try some of the other versions of Audacity - zip vs exe, some of the older versions or alternative download sites to see if Kaspersky also flags them?
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows
Thanks flipp. I was able to d/l the exe version, and I think I was able to get everything in it's right place
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I use Adobe Audition CS6 on my MacPro and it is great and simple to use