Topic: Distortion on live stereo recording...too hot?

[haftodo]

I upgraded from a single point rode stereo to a pair of used neumann KM184 mics ( >  SD722).  In my first recording, the vocals  seem too hot with some cracking or maybe distortion?   Not clipping..peaking up to -2db.    It could be on the whole recording, but really noticeable on the vocals,... and I didnt notice the distortion during the show.   I ran in a DIN config, for the first time, about 30 feet back and the mics were pointed outside the narrow stage mains. 

The km184 is supposed to have a "hot" output mic...dont recall the specs.     Is it the "hot" mic input causing this cracking sound?
I can lower the mic input gain range on the 722 or I can put a -10db pad in line.     If its the mic input which is a better choice?

I am going to do another recording in a few days and compare.   I may do a first set in similar setup and second set with a something to reduce the gain input.

Thanks,
-haftodo

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1) Did you run the limiter on the 722?
2) did it clip (open up an editor and look), can you normalize sections of the recording which have this distortion?

If 1 = no and 2 = yes, then you have two options; you have an equipment issue (not a configuration issue) or it sounded that way during the show. I'd actually bank on the later as both those are pro gear and I've run mics that were twice the mv/pa compared to the 184s and still didn't clip the 722. I've had shows which had overdriven vocals that I didn't notice at the show but notice at home, and they just ran it too hot out of the sbd to the PAs in the room. In a loud environment, sometimes you'll get a sound person who doesn't notice it so they don't back off but you can hear it upon play back when you're at home and not getting it pounded into your head.

[haftodo]

I haven't run the limiter yet but will try that tonight if I can make it out to record somewhere.   
 I had recorded around -6db and loaded in reaper only have a couple places where the gain goes red.  No serious clipping.   I did listen to both channels separately and can hear the cracking in both mics.  Also, I think only vocals were running through the small PA...the amps and drums weren't mic'd and no sound guy.  thanks.

[haftodo]

1) Did you run the limiter on the 722?
2) did it clip (open up an editor and look), can you normalize sections of the recording which have this distortion?

If 1 = no and 2 = yes, then you have two options; you have an equipment issue (not a configuration issue) or it sounded that way during the show. I'd actually bank on the later as both those are pro gear and I've run mics that were twice the mv/pa compared to the 184s and still didn't clip the 722. I've had shows which had overdriven vocals that I didn't notice at the show but notice at home, and they just ran it too hot out of the sbd to the PAs in the room. In a loud environment, sometimes you'll get a sound person who doesn't notice it so they don't back off but you can hear it upon play back when you're at home and not getting it pounded into your head.

I think I misunderstood your comment.   I was running the 722 limiter during the show.   Next recording I'll try different options.....turn off the default limiter for while and then add -10db pad or change the 722 mic input level. 

Here is clip from the recording.       https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zpwgakl7b54581c/Lq_i5viT-l

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Next recording I'll try different options.....turn off the default limiter for while and then add -10db pad or change the 722 mic input level. 

yeah, adjust your gain settings so they are either Low Gain or Fade to Off/mute (whatever that option is). There is no way you'll overload the 722's inputs with km184s unless you're spot micing instruments with them.

[haftodo]

I recorded yesterday, and found that the original "distortion" problem I posted was actually on the vocals through the PA .  Whew....I was worried my new/used mics had a problem.   Thanks for the comments on gain and clipping.

Question on gain and clipping:   (This is a little off my original topic....maybe should I start a new topic in Post-processing. )

How does reaper's master and track i/o,  function in relation to the recording device (sd722) levels?   
I loaded a recording from yesterday, into reaper and noticed that the Master I/O or track I/O would occasionally go red.   The actual recording levels on the 722 were at -3db or below .   Why does the reaper gain i/o "clip", while the recording itself never clipped or approached 0db during recording?   Am I missing something very basic : )

I have changed both gain settings to below 0db to prevent going red and will go read some other posts to see if this is answered.   


thanks,
-haftodo

[beatkilla]

I am not familiar with Reaper but in Sony Vegas for instance when i add a file the project proprties to not automatically change to the correct sample rate, bit depth,most likely Reaper has a default setting of 16/44 and your audio file is different,solution is to change Reapers project properties settings to match you audio resolution.

[page]

How does reaper's master and track i/o,  function in relation to the recording device (sd722) levels?   
I loaded a recording from yesterday, into reaper and noticed that the Master I/O or track I/O would occasionally go red.   The actual recording levels on the 722 were at -3db or below .   Why does the reaper gain i/o "clip", while the recording itself never clipped or approached 0db during recording?   Am I missing something very basic : )

Ok, two things.

When you add a file into Reaper, double click it and a window opens. In the middle somewhere there is a normalize button. Click that once and it will move the gain slider. If you clipped, it won't try and add any. I use this as a diagnostic tool when I'm pulling in files for that reason. Also, make sure when you setup your sends that you're not adding any volume (either through plugs, faders, routing settings, etc).

Second, remember that your LEDs on the 722 mean something very specific; the red are 4db apart, the orange are like 2db and the green (over -30) are like 2 but the ones near the bottom are 5 or 10. The LEDs there are designed with field producers in mind who run in the -20 to -10 range and that's why there isn't much detail for the red stuff. The 788 is the only 7 series currently programmable but that's a different topic.