Topic: Numerous Questions from a Total Gnewb with a New Rig

[OnamaeWaNanDesuKa]

The Shure Vert is a great mount, but it can make it tricky to get the angles and spacing the way you want them. You sort of need to adjust both things at once, and double check each again. 

No need for a protractor for setting up the most popular standard go-to stereo configurations, which is sort of hard to use with the mics anyway.  Just print out a paper copy of the mic template PDF and hold that up over or under the mics when you are adjusting angle and spacing.  Details are in this thread.

A few other things:

A fist held at arms length appears about 10 degrees wide.  You can use that to measure angles by squinting with one eye open and aligning the edge of your fist with objects on the walls of the venue then adding fist-increments to approximate the angle between things.  Or start from center and measure outwards by 10 degree increments. Once you've made mental notes of distant items which subtend the edge of the angle as seen from the micstand, you can sight along the mic bodies to point them at those marks.

In general, the narrower the angle between the two mics, the wider apart they need to be - conversely, the closer they are together the wider the angle required between mics.

Thanks bucket! I actually printed this out and laminated it. Sitting in the back layer of my gear bag along with a laminate of the A27M's manual. Still feel it would be a bit too approximate without the protractor though. Hope I'll eventually be able to feel comfortable eyeballing most configurations. Does anyone know of a mod for the vert bar that keeps the degree markings stationary?

[Marshall7]

Here's what you need

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/spacebar_stereo.html

[OnamaeWaNanDesuKa]

Here's what you need

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/spacebar_stereo.html

Looks amazing and I was considering it, but seeing as I've already spent ~$1000 dollars on my gear thus far (including things not listed; like fancier headphones, a padded carrying case, shipping and handling etc...), I'm in no financial position to purchase something like that yet  Hopefully I'll get comfy with the shure vert bar for now.

[Gutbucket]

Does anyone know of a mod for the vert bar that keeps the degree markings stationary?

I find those marks useless anyway since most any mic clips screwd to the bar are also angle adjustable, compounding the angles.  It's usually a puzzle to get the spacing and angle I want. Oftentimes I can achieve the same mic arrangement with the bar attachments either opposing, both facing forward, or some other angle depending on the angle of the clips and the position of the mics in them.

[OnamaeWaNanDesuKa]

Alrightos. So I've come to the conclusion that the vert bar is ideal for X-Y and a standard t-bar is better for ORTF. I'll be making some recordings in the studio tomorrow, switching between both techniques (and using my protractor to make sure the mics are aligned accurately). Will post samples for anyone interested in what a pair of solid mics (the Berliners) sound like plugged directly into the Olympus LS-100 on various settings. Thanks for all the input guys!

By the way, if anyone in the NYC area (preferably Brooklyn or Manhattan) would be willing to let a noob (me) shadow them at a not-too-crowded show (and ideally a free one) in the future, so I could learn some things, that would be amazing. Let me know.

[JimmieC]

Have always loved the vert bar but now love the active bars.

[OnamaeWaNanDesuKa]

Have always loved the vert bar but now love the active bars.

finally figured out how to do ORTF with it. took a bit of tinkering, especially because the berliners are such small mics. will be recording about 2 hours in the studio today in ortf and two hours in x-y. will post result later this week.

[OnamaeWaNanDesuKa]

wowowow. cutting up the recordings into tracks now and the one done in ORTF sounds more accurate, crisp and significantly more balanced, than the X-Y recording. i guess ORTF is the way to go in a smaller space? anyway, samples 'ell be up this week. btw, the ls-100 and cm-33 play very well together. notable clarity.

[Phil Zone]

I always find xy to be very "airy" and doesn't give enough substance to me

[OnamaeWaNanDesuKa]

Alright, here you folks go!

Lineage: Berliner CM33s > Olympus LS-100 (LO XLR Gain & Level Dials set to about 6) > WAV > MacBook Pro > Audacity (L-R Channel Balance & Fades) > FLAC > Mp3 (w/XLD using LAME 3.99.5)

These were recorded with mics arranged according to ORTF, as close to the front-center of the studio as possible:
- http://picosong.com/qB49 (from the short peak of a spontaneous jam)
- http://picosong.com/qB4A (from jamming out Fire on The Mountain)

These were recorded with mics arranged according to X-Y (90°), as close to the front-center of the studio as possible:
- http://picosong.com/qB4p (from a short, spontaneous jam, that the drummer abruptly killed)
- http://picosong.com/qB5n (from a somewhat extended, spontaneous jam)

This was a bit of a rusty session to begin with (drummer was tired, guitarist had work early the next day), plus I (bassist) ripped into one of the calluses on my fingerpicking hand, mid-way through the night, so my playing got pretty, pretty clunky towards the end of the ORTF recording, carrying into the X-Y as well. Regardless, I think the sound is much more accurate with ORTF, and I will likely be using that stereo technique for all subsequent recordings in the studio I currently rent out. Again, if anyone is interested in hearing more, or different types of recordings (musical or not), with either the Berliners, or the LS-100's internal mics, let me know. Enjoy, and I hope this is useful to at-least one person.

P.S. I was wrong about the initial measurements of the studio. It is closer to 20x12 feet, with a 9 foot high ceiling. Guitarist plays through an amp, which is mic'd and sent through two shitty PA speakers, set directly behind the drummer, who is in the back-center of the room. My rather loud hartke bass amp is about 6 feet from the back of the room, hanging out on the far-left side, angled towards the center-right of the room.

[F.O.Bean]

You don't need the grace bar. I ran a vert bar with my AT8415 shocks and my 480s for YEARS and never used anything but my eyes. It's very simple to find out DINa/DIN/NOS since they're all 90* angles. Also, like Cam said, I ALWAYS use a small LED flashlight on my stand pointing down at my stand legs so folks don't trip over my stand, but I mainly only do that when I'm FOB/DFC, which is most of the time

If it is LOUD, then I would assume the gain setting should be on LOW Practice in your house with your stereo on HIGH, and put your mics just a couple feet away, and play like you're at a loud venue or bar!