Topic: Advice needed

[taosmay]

This past weekend was my first-ever attempt at using new mic's needing phantom power/with balanced xlr outputs, and a brand new recorder. I didn't have time before going to a festival to set it up in front of my stereo to see if it all worked properly. I went to South Fork, CO to the Rhythms on the Rio Festival (http://www.rhythmsontherio.com). I was using Busman BSC1's > Darktrain xlr cables > Marantz PMD-661 concert modded recorder by Doug Oade. At 24 bit/44.1, I could get very good recording levels from my left channel on the 661, but on the right channel, I could only peak at -40dB. The connections between mic and cable and cable and 661 were taken out and put back in a couple times, with no change to the right channel peak level. Mic att on the 661's menu was at 0db, and same with the mic's.After one and a half sets of music that I really wanted - I appeared to be the only taper there BTW, I gave up and pulled out the right channel cable going into the 661, and recorded in mono. At that point I could get strong levels on both channels, although the left was at ~4 on the 661's rec level control knob, and the right at ~6, in order to get balanced levels peaking overall at -4dB.

So what may have happened to only get -40dB rec levels? Some operator error I couldn't figure out at the time, or is their something potentially wrong with the equipment? Since I was getting a signal, albeit a very weak one, I am thinking the mic and cable should be ok, but could it be when the 661's xlr inputs were upgraded, something is not working the way it is supposed to? I have been using mini mic's on eyeglasses and a d-100 dat for 11 years now, so I have some experience recording in the field, but am at a loss right now to figure this one out.

I want to go to the Four Corners Folk Festival (http://www.folkwest.com/index2.htm) for labor day weekend, with equipment that is working properly, and me setting this up correctly, so I would appreciate any help in getting this straightened out. Thanks

Harold 

[datbrad]

This past weekend was my first-ever attempt at using new mic's needing phantom power/with balanced xlr outputs, and a brand new recorder. I didn't have time before going to a festival to set it up in front of my stereo to see if it all worked properly. I went to South Fork, CO to the Rhythms on the Rio Festival (http://www.rhythmsontherio.com). I was using Busman BSC1's > Darktrain xlr cables > Marantz PMD-661 concert modded recorder by Doug Oade. At 24 bit/44.1, I could get very good recording levels from my left channel on the 661, but on the right channel, I could only peak at -40dB. The connections between mic and cable and cable and 661 were taken out and put back in a couple times, with no change to the right channel peak level. Mic att on the 661's menu was at 0db, and same with the mic's.After one and a half sets of music that I really wanted - I appeared to be the only taper there BTW, I gave up and pulled out the right channel cable going into the 661, and recorded in mono. At that point I could get strong levels on both channels, although the left was at ~4 on the 661's rec level control knob, and the right at ~6, in order to get balanced levels peaking overall at -4dB.

So what may have happened to only get -40dB rec levels? Some operator error I couldn't figure out at the time, or is their something potentially wrong with the equipment? Since I was getting a signal, albeit a very weak one, I am thinking the mic and cable should be ok, but could it be when the 661's xlr inputs were upgraded, something is not working the way it is supposed to? I have been using mini mic's on eyeglasses and a d-100 dat for 11 years now, so I have some experience recording in the field, but am at a loss right now to figure this one out.

I want to go to the Four Corners Folk Festival (http://www.folkwest.com/index2.htm) for labor day weekend, with equipment that is working properly, and me setting this up correctly, so I would appreciate any help in getting this straightened out. Thanks

Harold 

You have to set up everything at home in front of your stereo and crank it up to test the rig fully. Swap the mics, leaving the cables in place in the recorder, then swap the cables left/right going into the recorder. It will not take long to determine if it's the mics, the cables , or the recorder causing the low levels in one channel.

[acidjack]

This past weekend was my first-ever attempt at using new mic's needing phantom power/with balanced xlr outputs, and a brand new recorder. I didn't have time before going to a festival to set it up in front of my stereo to see if it all worked properly. I went to South Fork, CO to the Rhythms on the Rio Festival (http://www.rhythmsontherio.com). I was using Busman BSC1's > Darktrain xlr cables > Marantz PMD-661 concert modded recorder by Doug Oade. At 24 bit/44.1, I could get very good recording levels from my left channel on the 661, but on the right channel, I could only peak at -40dB. The connections between mic and cable and cable and 661 were taken out and put back in a couple times, with no change to the right channel peak level. Mic att on the 661's menu was at 0db, and same with the mic's.After one and a half sets of music that I really wanted - I appeared to be the only taper there BTW, I gave up and pulled out the right channel cable going into the 661, and recorded in mono. At that point I could get strong levels on both channels, although the left was at ~4 on the 661's rec level control knob, and the right at ~6, in order to get balanced levels peaking overall at -4dB.

So what may have happened to only get -40dB rec levels? Some operator error I couldn't figure out at the time, or is their something potentially wrong with the equipment? Since I was getting a signal, albeit a very weak one, I am thinking the mic and cable should be ok, but could it be when the 661's xlr inputs were upgraded, something is not working the way it is supposed to? I have been using mini mic's on eyeglasses and a d-100 dat for 11 years now, so I have some experience recording in the field, but am at a loss right now to figure this one out.

I want to go to the Four Corners Folk Festival (http://www.folkwest.com/index2.htm) for labor day weekend, with equipment that is working properly, and me setting this up correctly, so I would appreciate any help in getting this straightened out. Thanks

Harold 

Sounds to me like a short or a dirty connection somewhere in the chain.  I've had this happen a few times.  I think the most likely culprit is the mics, but you should try it at home as the other poster said and be sure it's not user error.

[taosmay]

I just did some testing in front of my home stereo, and although at one point thought I might have it figured out, I tried another option, which got me confused again...

I re-created the same conditions that caused me trouble at the festival, and came out with the same results - very low level in the right channel (-40dB) at rec level 10, while the left channel had a strong signal strength at rec level 6. That was with the red tipped/right side mic cable going into both the right channel of the Marantz 661 rec input, and the red tipped/right side mic cable going into right side Busman BSC1 mic(right side while standing behind the mic stand). *Test #1*

Then I switched the cables going into the mic bodies. So the right cable was now going into the left side mic, and the left cable was now going into the right side mic. I did not change the cables going into the 661 recorder. This option resulted in the left channel of the 661's rec level now being the one that would only peak at -40dB, while the right channel had strong signal strength. *Test #2*

Then I switched back the cables going into the mic bodies, and just switched the mic cables going into the 661. This resulted in the same findings as happened in the previous Test #2...*Test #3*

At this point I thought I had a faulty mic cable as my problem.

Then I re-created Test #1, except that now I switched only the mic bodies. So the right cable was going into both the right channel of the 661, and the right side Busman mic, and the left cable was going into the left channel of the 661 and the left side Busman mic. Except now Busman mic serial #75, which was the right side in Test #1, was now the left side mic(standing behind the mic stand), and Busman mic serial #76, which was the left side in Test #1, was now the right side. This test resulted in good, strong signal levels on both rec levels of the 661 - as if there was no problem at all. *Test #4*

What's the deal with Test #4? Do I always have to make sure that Busman mic serial #76 has to be on the right side of my stereo bar, and serial #75 on the left side? Are these mic's made to be channel-specific? Any suggestions for other tests?

Harold 

[TNJazz]

Sounds very much like a bad cable.  When you swapped the mics on the bar you may have moved the cable just enough for it to make good contact again at wherever the fault point is.

Do you have another set of cables you can use?

[taosmay]

I do not have another set of mic cables. When I swapped the mic's L/R placement on the stereo bar, I had also switched out the cables going into the mic bodies. I didn't just move the mic from one side of the bar to the other. I disconnected the cable feeding the mic's, keeping the right tipped cable on the right side, and left on left, but switched out the actual mic bodies from one side to the other. 

[darktrain]

By all means if in fact you think its the cables send them back, i could make another set and ship them out in time, i have never had a bad connection ever so this has me a little perplexed as well

[Walstib62]

If moving things around, swapping connections made it work, then it proably is a connection. When you play back the low level recording, do you hear any static or signs of a loose connection?

A damaged cable would be the most likely suspect. less likely would be the connection on the other side of the xlr's, either internal to one of the mics or the recorder.

Since you are short on time, I would go to a guitar shop and pick up an inexpensive pair of cables, and try that.

[taosmay]

After a few pm's with Darktrain, and some more testing here at home, everything is working fine. Both channels are getting good, strong stereo levels in front of my home stereo, no matter which mic's the cables are connected to. Not sure what was going wrong before. So, I'm just gonna go with these to the Four Corners Music festival this weekend. Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

[dgale]

FWIW, I always advice having two sets of XLR cables...you'll find these sorts of oddities happening down the road at a show and you'll be glad when you reach into your case and grab a second set of cables and resolve things for the night.  Also a good reason to make sure and soundcheck your setup before a show however you are able - the level discrepancy you described would reveal itself even in a simple "check, check" type soundcheck and allow you time to figure things out, switch cables etc. before the show actually starts.

[taosmay]

I was thinking that too, having a second set of xlr's, just in case. But I would rather them not be a cheap set - $15 for one cord at my local guitar shop, and $20 at Rat Shack for one cord. For this weekends festival, hopefully all will go well with my one set.