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Author Topic: Setting Bass Roll Off  (Read 14452 times)

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Offline seekup40

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Setting Bass Roll Off
« on: June 02, 2003, 09:25:12 PM »
What would be a good setting to set bass roll off at if I'd be taping DMB from around 10-15 rows on the stack running a at853's > battery box > md rig?

Thanks

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2003, 10:01:26 PM »
i wouldnt personally run one (a bass/rolloff) that close.......i have NEVER used my pad on my 480's.......you can take bass out, afterwards, ya cant put it back in....... 8)

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Offline danmorgan

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2003, 10:20:51 AM »
i wouldnt personally run one (a bass/rolloff) that close.......i have NEVER used my pad on my 480's.......you can take bass out, afterwards, ya cant put it back in....... 8)

bean

I agree.  You will lose a lot of the integrity of the recording...post recording edits are the way to go if it is too bassy.  DMB won't have the thunder of, say, WSP or Gov't Mule anywhoo.

Offline nickgregory

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2003, 12:05:06 PM »
you have to be careful here.  I ran front row on the side section, about 6 feet from the stacks at about 17 ft with a set of 853's a while back, bass roll off at 69 hz, and got massive distorted base.  Now, admittedly, this show (Nissan Pavilion) was the loudest DMB show I had been to...ever, but it happened.  Best suggestion, tape the opening act, listen to it at intermission and make a judgement call.  The problem is that the 853's dont handle nearly the levels that alot of the other mics do, so the rolloff is important.

Nick

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2003, 03:48:22 PM »
i wouldnt personally run one (a bass/rolloff) that close.......i have NEVER used my pad on my 480's.......you can take bass out, afterwards, ya cant put it back in....... 8)

bean

I agree.  You will lose a lot of the integrity of the recording...post recording edits are the way to go if it is too bassy.  DMB won't have the thunder of, say, WSP or Gov't Mule anywhoo.

they have NO thunder to begin with.... ;)

bean
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Offline nickgregory

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2003, 03:58:47 PM »
i wouldnt personally run one (a bass/rolloff) that close.......i have NEVER used my pad on my 480's.......you can take bass out, afterwards, ya cant put it back in....... 8)

bean

I agree.  You will lose a lot of the integrity of the recording...post recording edits are the way to go if it is too bassy.  DMB won't have the thunder of, say, WSP or Gov't Mule anywhoo.

they have NO thunder to begin with.... ;)

bean

trust me, the last thing we want to do on this board is start knocking bands...dont get me started on the endless noise that <insert band name here> calls music, but since they have a taping policy, people love em

Nick

Offline Marc Nutter

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2003, 04:37:07 PM »
Hi SeekUp40 and All,

Setting a high-pass filter (ie. bass roll-off) has always been a point of discrepancy for many people.

My personal sentiment is that I would rather use an HPF when recording then in post.  Since low-end is often exaggerated for the benefit of our ears which do not perceive low-frequency as well as high frequency, recordings can become excessively bassy.  Further, since the low frequency information contains a lot of energy that will drive our levels on our recorders, it will force us to set our overall levels lower than desirable, especially if we plan on taking out the bottom-end anyway.  This is particularly valuable when recording at 16-bit since we are giving up 1-2 bits to the bottom-end that we will later through away either in editing or with an EQ.  If we use an HPF in the recording process, we get better resolution for the mids and highs since we can then set our levels to peak in the –2dBfs range for the higher frequency content as opposed to doing so for the low-end (which we may not want later anyway and may be 6-12dB hotter than the mid through high-end).

I am totally sympathetic to the idea of trying to most accurately represent what we hear, but a HPF is one of the tools that many of us have on our pre-amps.  Utilizing our tools to the fullest potential gives us the best opportunity to achieve the results we are after.  It really depends if you are trying to get an exact representation of how your mics “heard” the show, how you heard the show, or what will be the most listenable on your playback system and/or the playback system(s) of others.

The obvious disclaimers apply—your ears will the best judge and this will vary with equipment and source material.

Generally, if I’m running Schoeps, AKG 480’s, or a large diaphragm mic, especially with a bass heavy band, like Panic or Mule, I will use a gentle roll-off 6dB at 50Hz or 75Hz.  For mics like DPA, Neumann, MBHO or Earthworks, I won’t typically use a HPF unless the band/venue is really bassy or boomy. In most of these cases, I would be running a V2/V3.

If you are running with the mics close to one column of P.A. in closer to it than you are to the subs, which are usually stacked on the stage, you may not find it necessary to run the HPF.

Another interesting anomaly can be the low frequency coupling that occurs in the middle.  There is roughly a 6dB boost of low frequency (under 100Hz) that you will notice at dead center.   Go to middle, listen, step 3-4 feet to either side.  Notice the difference.  Go back to the middle.  A typical filter of 6dB/octave at 75Hz serves quite well in neutralizing the build up.  You may actualy find the results more listenable than just capturing exactly what was there.

I hope this is helpful.

Happy Recording,

Marc

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2003, 04:38:05 PM »
Hey Nick, that's why I listen to Meshuggah! ;) 'cept I don't know about their tpaing policy! HAHAHA
Armen

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2003, 04:40:37 PM »
Yeah seekup40, what are your options? What filter(s) do you have at your disposal?

Offline Craig T

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2003, 05:04:00 PM »
Great post Marc.  I agree 100%.  HPF can be a great tool if used correctly.  I used a -6db/octave @ 75Hz HPF on the V2 most of the time with Neumann tlm170s and km140s.  I don't use the HPF with the ADK A51TL>V3 - the TL's have a natural rolloff, so adding a HPF makes them sound thin and takes that low end punch out of the recording.

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Offline seekup40

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2003, 06:48:23 PM »
The rolloff options i have are:

16hz
69hz
95hz
107hz
160hz
195hz
888hz

Offline zhianosatch

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2003, 06:51:57 PM »
That's the good ol' Sound Pro box, eh? At Dave Matthews from where you described and your 853s, I'd say you can't lose with the 69 Hz setting.
Armen

Offline seekup40

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2003, 06:53:24 PM »
And I know this is not a very good chance since nobody knows me really, but would anyone be kind enough to loan me a dat for a few shows?  :)

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2003, 06:54:45 PM »
I'm still runnin' MD myself... :(

Offline seekup40

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Re:Setting Bass Roll Off
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2003, 06:54:55 PM »
That's the good ol' Sound Pro box, eh? At Dave Matthews from where you described and your 853s, I'd say you can't lose with the 69 Hz setting.
Armen
Yep this is the soundpro box, so maybe ill give it a shot at 69hz, ill be sec a row m night 1 at polaris and section a row k night 2, so very similar

 

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