Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: SClassical on March 03, 2007, 01:29:48 PM
-
NEW TREAD FOR MR-1
In reply to Jeff's message regarding external power:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Qtek-9100-High-Capacity-External-Battery-5400-mAh_W0QQitemZ160077305401QQihZ006QQcategoryZ48674QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
I got the above (just under $100)...works great. Will take my recorder out tomorrow Sunday for my first stealth recording (with DPA 4052 and MixPre). Will let you know how it goes.
-
yeah but where ya gonna get silence these days :P ;) Background noise of some sort everywhere.
Guess you could go in an iso booth or in a dead room :-\
-
Be nice if someone with an MR-1 could record some silence at a few gain settings (no mics and possibly with load resistors) so we can do some analysis and get an idea what the noise floor looks like..
Should be able to measure the internal noise floor with just the unit alone...so room noise won't be an issue.
-
Maybe I need to read the post I quote better before I respond. Didn't see the part where freelunch said "no mics and possible with load resistors"
-
also, if someone wants to open theirs up, I'd love to see how the battery and HD are positioned inside the unit.
I'm on the fence about ordering one, if it looks like I can swap out the HD for a CF card and a bigger battery, I'll go for it.
-
some eye candy, and a benchmark for size.
(http://www.nickspicks.com/images/korg/korg01.jpg)
(http://www.nickspicks.com/images/korg/korg02.jpg)
(http://www.nickspicks.com/images/korg/korg03.jpg)
(http://www.nickspicks.com/images/korg/korg04.jpg)
about 1/3rd thinner, but large footprint overall than the R9. Its pretty..thats for sure.
nice case that comes w/it too. I fired it up on AC power quickly, and it boots super fast, and is ready to roll. meeters were HUGE, like DAP-1 sized (taller, but not as long...though close). Super easy to see, thats for sure. I'll be doing all sorts of stuff w/this in the coming week.
-
I'm running an external battery test right now, line in with zero added gain at DSD resolution (what's the practical difference between the three DSD formats they let you choose, but don't talk about at all?). SO far it's gone 3 3/4 hours with the guage on the Powerstick 15 (a BatteryGeek Lithium Ion adjustable voltage battery/small flashlight) showing about 1/2 charge still remaining in the Powerstick and full battery in the MR-1. The Powerstick is about the same height and thickness as the MR-1, about 1/2 as wide, weighs a little over 6 oz. It is rated at 4000mAh (but I think you have to run it at 3.7V to get that, it is 14.8 Wh rated, which would be about 3000 mAh at 5V). This looks viable.
Jeff
-
I used it last night with external power - this thing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/O2-XDA-Exec-High-Capacity-External-Battery-5400-mAh_W0QQitemZ150097200098QQihZ005QQcategoryZ48674QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It lasted for about 7 hrs (plus charging the internal to full capacity) and still going - maybe still have about 10% of the external left with the internal charged up and un-tounched. Maybe it will last 9 or so hours in total...don't think it can run the MR-1 longer than 10 hrs (even though I calculated it to be 12 hrs :( ).
Anyone know how to change the file size? I think it was preset to 1GB...Cannot find the info in the manual how to reset it to 2GB file size. It auto cut my file every 22mins recording at 1bit DFF.
Anyone tryed to make a CD of their recording yet?
The Audio Gate program is just for simple editing nothing complex.
(Hey Jeff, I sent you an email...)
-
I used it last night with external power - this thing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/O2-XDA-Exec-High-Capacity-External-Battery-5400-mAh_W0QQitemZ150097200098QQihZ005QQcategoryZ48674QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It lasted for about 7 hrs (plus charging the internal to full capacity) and still going - maybe still have about 10% of the external left with the internal charged up and un-tounched. Maybe it will last 9 or so hours in total...don't think it can run the MR-1 longer than 10 hrs (even though I calculated it to be 12 hrs :( ).
How are you plugging in the external battery? Are you using the USB or where the power plug, plugs in?
-
There is a cable that has the USB one end and the power connector on the other end. I got the retractable mini right angle one.
Like this (similar):
http://cgi.ebay.com/For-Sony-PSP-Playstation-Retractable-USB-Charge-Cable_W0QQitemZ320087333203QQihZ011QQcategoryZ122516QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
But the power end is RA - good for stealthing.
-
What kind of time do you get without the external pack, ie just running the internals...
Thanks for your time in this....John
-
Today I tried recording at 1bit and the internal battery lasted for about 2 hr 30 mins after a full charge.
-
I used it last night with external power - this thing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/O2-XDA-Exec-High-Capacity-External-Battery-5400-mAh_W0QQitemZ150097200098QQihZ005QQcategoryZ48674QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It lasted for about 7 hrs (plus charging the internal to full capacity) and still going - maybe still have about 10% of the external left with the internal charged up and un-tounched. Maybe it will last 9 or so hours in total...don't think it can run the MR-1 longer than 10 hrs (even though I calculated it to be 12 hrs :( ).
Anyone know how to change the file size? I think it was preset to 1GB...Cannot find the info in the manual how to reset it to 2GB file size. It auto cut my file every 22mins recording at 1bit DFF.
Anyone tryed to make a CD of their recording yet?
The Audio Gate program is just for simple editing nothing complex.
(Hey Jeff, I sent you an email...)
I ended up getting about 5 hours from the small external battery and then about 2.5 hours on internal, but it shuts down and needs to be restarted after 6 hours, as advertised. This seems weird, as at that point I had 14 or 15 1GB files and it shut in the middle of another file at the six hour mark. What is the reason for this six hour limit (which seems to apply no matter what resolution you are recording at)? Can it be defeated? I think it parses DSD into 1 GB because if you convert to PCM 192/24 you will get 2 GB and if you divide your DSD files at 2GB you might exceed the Windows file limit in high resolution PCM. Has anyone yet tried joining the bits together? The manual is a little worrisomely unclear about whether you'll get a seamless join.
Jeff
-
How is the software that ships with it? As Jeff mentioned, re-join and also 1-bit to pcm conversion..
I haven't figured the software out yet. All I can seem to do is resample files. Can you edit with the software?
Also, I'd like to know how to change the file size limit as mentioned earlier. Anyone figure that out yet?
-
Ok, going on about power consumption is fine, but what does this thing *SOUND* like? Isn't that still the most important criteria here?
Have any of you MR1 owners listened back to a recording yet, even just a recording of you near the computer or something, to judge the MIC preamp noise level?
-
OK, now I'm curious and seriously looking for MR-1 deck loan to do an MR-1 technical review.
One of you guys may have a spare from double ordering, and everyone seems to agree somebody needs to do the gain, noise and frequency graphs on this puppy so we all like to know what is going on with the analog inputs.
I'll pay FedEx shipping both ways.
Already reviewed MT2496 and R-09 at:
www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm)
www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm)
-
How is the software that ships with it? As Jeff mentioned, re-join and also 1-bit to pcm conversion..
Software is very basic...You cannot adjust the vol when one side (L or R) is overly low compared to the other side. So I guess I have to do all the fine adjustments with the SF8 program after converting it to PCM.
-
you can raise the gain, only via individual channels.
i'm testing right now. I watched it roll an hour, just kept on going.
recording dsf 1bit/2.8gHz, i'm sure the file is larger than a gig, but i guess it splits everything at that mark any way.
internal battery, thus far 1:40 and 1 bar down (of 3, then two more stages from there).
I built myself a little 5v action w/a RS 7508 voltage regulator. seems to work like a charm..it goes right into charge mode when plugged in, just like when on its AC feed.
fwiw, the power input on this is the same size as the sony D7/8 barrels. I had an old D7 cable kicking around and when I plugged it in to test its size, it just fit so perfect I couldn't resist using it. Dont know what tip size that is. B perhaps?
-
How are you handling the gain adjustments?
Manual mode on the MR-1, 0dB gain and adjust via the pre?
-
in my first tests here, i'm running -12db on the MR1 and then adjusting the preamp to my normal running levels. Looks to be about right.
-
How are you handling the gain adjustments?
Manual mode on the MR-1, 0dB gain and adjust via the pre?
Yes, that's what I do...don't know if that is the best though...
(The vol knob on my MixPre is so sensitive even a small turn or touch will make the meter jump from no signal to big signal. The mixpre is so difficult to use. The V3 is much better.)
-
I ended up getting about 5 hours from the small external battery and then about 2.5 hours on internal, but it shuts down and needs to be restarted after 6 hours, as advertised. This seems weird, as at that point I had 14 or 15 1GB files and it shut in the middle of another file at the six hour mark. What is the reason for this six hour limit (which seems to apply no matter what resolution you are recording at)? Can it be defeated? I think it parses DSD into 1 GB because if you convert to PCM 192/24 you will get 2 GB and if you divide your DSD files at 2GB you might exceed the Windows file limit in high resolution PCM. Has anyone yet tried joining the bits together? The manual is a little worrisomely unclear about whether you'll get a seamless join.
Jeff
I orignally heard the splits were going to be much smaller chunks. Might be worth checking the raw
files and file structures. I would take two consective pieces, transfer them to PCM audio,
then view the chunks side by side in a waveform viewer to make sure the pieces are seamless.
Please add to the list of questions to check for is "How seamless are the splits"?
Thanks!
-
the splits are 1gb, and appear to be seamless (as far as looking / listening). I'll do more to verify, but im pretty certain its good. the conversion was quick (two file test from dsd>redbook), and the software is.., well, hokey.
one rant.....
when the unit is off, and you have it plugged into the AC / DC converter, it does not register as charging anywhere. no little icon ...nadda.
If its on and plugged in, then you get status.
I tried building a 5v output off of a 9v battery using the 7805 VR chip, but when I plugged it in (and it did go over to 'charge" mode), it appeared to not have enough UMPH...(I think the current output was too low) and the unit shutdown (still got 9 gigs of recordings though). I switched to the ol' PR2E power runner's 5v output and it works fine. even will boot up off of it when the internal is totaly dead.
-
By ear I find the splits seamless, as well, but the break came at a point in what I was taping where it is harder to tell. For some reason I get 25 minutes before the autosplit rather than the 22 minutes/GB listed in the manual, maybe the 1GB data they give there is not the 1 GB where the split is executed. The result of converting the two files from DSD to 24/96 wav and joining them in Wavelab seems to be the same as using AudioGate's "combine" button on the DSD and then converting. The files go over to my computer pretty fast (about 1 GB/minute on USB 2.0), but the conversion of DSD to wav is a bit slow, maybe twice realtime. Any real world experience yet, Simon?
Jeff
-
So how does the DSD sound compared to what you're used to hearing w/wav files? Can you actually listen to it through headphones?
-
The files go over to my computer pretty fast (about 1 GB/minute on USB 2.0), but the conversion of DSD to wav is a bit slow, maybe twice realtime.
Zoinks Shaggy, 2x realtime DSD>WAV??? Are we back in the dark ages of dat>cd transfers or what?
Guess alot depends on your CPU. What you packin' there Jeff?
-
Any real world experience yet, Simon?
Jeff
Yes, I recorded 2 concerts (one cello recital and the other a piano trio) both in a stealth way using MixPre/DPA4052 - 1st time using this gear in the field. I was not very happy with the levels in both of the occasions because I underestimated the preamp and ended up with VERY low levels. When I got home I had to increase the vol on my MR-1 to max to hear what I recorded! Sounded muffled when I did that. I've gotten used to the Schoeps/V3 sound and now totally changing everything to SD/DPA sounds a bit strange (nothing against SD/DPA just not enough experience using the MixPre). Maybe I should do Schoeps/V3 to MR-1 in my next stealth occasion, which is this Saturday. So at the moment my 2 tests in the field weren’t perfect therefore difficult to conclude from them... This weekend I will record a piano recital also in a stealth way and I'll plan to use Schoeps/V3 to MT (digital from V3) and MR-1 (analog from V3), which should give me a better comparison. Also I know the V3 gain settings because I used it so many times.
-
This is what I plan to do for MMW, Thursday night. V3>digi out > JB3
> analog out > MR-1
-
a quick Korg/DSD question.
if you have to convert to PCM for playback/editing, then why is DSD better?
Is the DSD>24/96PCM final product some way better then regular 24/96
or is part of this that DSD is going to be the playback format of the future?
trying to see the benefits?
-
a quick Korg/DSD question.
if you have to convert to PCM for playback/editing, then why is DSD better?
Is the DSD>24/96PCM final product some way better then regular 24/96
or is part of this that DSD is going to be the playback format of the future?
trying to see the benefits?
I *think* because all basis for pcm encoding in the future will be based on the 1 bit stream which these korg devices deliver.. hence the raw 1 bit stream for archiving.
-
a quick Korg/DSD question.
if you have to convert to PCM for playback/editing, then why is DSD better?
Is the DSD>24/96PCM final product some way better then regular 24/96
or is part of this that DSD is going to be the playback format of the future?
trying to see the benefits?
I *think* because all basis for pcm encoding in the future will be based on the 1 bit stream which these korg devices deliver.. hence the raw 1 bit stream for archiving.
I *think* because the final master recording of a 1 bit DSD is closer to real life sound because it only passes through the preamp whereas the 24/96 PCM master recording has to go through one more stage (the A/D converter). So sound is altered 2X in 24/96 PCM as compared to 1X for 1 bit DSD...Am I correct???
-
a quick Korg/DSD question.
if you have to convert to PCM for playback/editing, then why is DSD better?
Is the DSD>24/96PCM final product some way better then regular 24/96
or is part of this that DSD is going to be the playback format of the future?
trying to see the benefits?
I *think* because all basis for pcm encoding in the future will be based on the 1 bit stream which these korg devices deliver.. hence the raw 1 bit stream for archiving.
I *think* because the final master recording of a 1 bit DSD is closer to real life sound because it only passes through the preamp whereas the 24/96 PCM master recording has to go through one more stage (the A/D converter). So sound is altered 2X in 24/96 PCM as compared to 1X for 1 bit DSD...Am I correct???
.. pretty much.. any rendering of pcm data will be based on this one bit stream that comes off the chip.. recording it will allow you to use whichever flavour of pcm encoding you like in the future at whatever bitrate..
-
This is what I plan to do for MMW, Thursday night. V3>digi out > JB3
> analog out > MR-1
I think you would miss all the benefits of DSD if you do this. Much better to go V3 analog out > MR-1
-
I ran mine last night for a show at the church. ran stage lip, and while monitoring it I *thought* it sounded exceptional. but hard to tell. we'll see now, i'm working on the files.
-
This is what I plan to do for MMW, Thursday night. V3>digi out > JB3
> analog out > MR-1
I think you would miss all the benefits of DSD if you do this. Much better to go V3 analog out > MR-1
That's what he means:
V3 > digi out > JB3
AND
V3 > analog out > MR-1
Regarding recording to DSD: I don't really understand the whole purpose besides archiving. Once we can edit DSD and burn DSD/SACD discs, it will become more interesting to me. As DSD is a closed format, I have doubts that will happen soon. Maybe with more prosumer devices we'll see something.
For now, I'm content with 24/48 from my R-4. I don't run 24/96 because I can't hear the difference, using my recordings. Let's have some 4 channel DSD recording - then I'll be happy!
-
Once we can edit DSD and burn DSD/SACD discs, it will become more interesting to me. As DSD is a closed format, I have doubts that will happen soon. Maybe with more prosumer devices we'll see something.
They are being extremely tight-ass about DSD editing and disc burning... I have my doubts about the long term survival of the format. I don't consider pro tools costing thousands of dollars 'survival' or available.. I think that direction is death to the format. At this point, the sound of DSD recorded by this is mostly moot because we can't hear it.. So my guess is that it will come down to the converted PCM sound with lots of hype about 'if you could only hear the native dsd!!'. But I am hopeful...
I've been keeping a DAT friend informed as we learn more.. I haven't dropped the 2X realtime bomb on him yet but I'm sure we'll have a good chuckle..
-
Once we can edit DSD and burn DSD/SACD discs, it will become more interesting to me. As DSD is a closed format, I have doubts that will happen soon. Maybe with more prosumer devices we'll see something.
At this point, the sound of DSD recorded by this is mostly moot because we can't hear it.. So my guess is that it will come down to the converted PCM sound with lots of hype about 'if you could only hear the native dsd!!'.
You can hear true DSD by playing back on the recorder, similar to the old days of having DAT recorders but no easy way to burn cd's. DAT's played back on the DAT recorder sounded better than cassette copies from the DAT. Same situation at the moment for DSD. DSD will sound better than decimated PCM.
-
You can hear true DSD by playing back on the recorder, similar to the old days of having DAT recorders but no easy way to burn cd's.
For many, many reasons it is very unlikely that a small portable recorder is going to be a high quality playback source..
DAT's played back on the DAT recorder sounded better than cassette copies from the DAT. Same situation at the moment for DSD. DSD will sound better than decimated PCM.
Comparing DSD derived PCM to DAT derived cassettes? That's just goofy nonsense.
You can play back DSD on the recorder and see for yourself. Perhaps CD to MP3 is a better analogy.
-
Once we can edit DSD and burn DSD/SACD discs, it will become more interesting to me. As DSD is a closed format, I have doubts that will happen soon. Maybe with more prosumer devices we'll see something.
At this point, the sound of DSD recorded by this is mostly moot because we can't hear it.. So my guess is that it will come down to the converted PCM sound with lots of hype about 'if you could only hear the native dsd!!'.
You can hear true DSD by playing back on the recorder, similar to the old days of having DAT recorders but no easy way to burn cd's. DAT's played back on the DAT recorder sounded better than cassette copies from the DAT. Same situation at the moment for DSD. DSD will sound better than decimated PCM.
That isn't a very practical solution though. The deck playback will almost certainly be less than ideal. I wonder if deck playback of DSD would sound better or worse than the PCM (assume 24/96 or so) played back through whatever transport?
Also, you'll only be able to play the master DSD file. There is no editing there. No track splits. No normalization. No EQ. Etc. (not saying we all do the above on all/any of our recordings, but still...).
-
Once we can edit DSD and burn DSD/SACD discs, it will become more interesting to me. As DSD is a closed format, I have doubts that will happen soon. Maybe with more prosumer devices we'll see something.
At this point, the sound of DSD recorded by this is mostly moot because we can't hear it.. So my guess is that it will come down to the converted PCM sound with lots of hype about 'if you could only hear the native dsd!!'.
You can hear true DSD by playing back on the recorder, similar to the old days of having DAT recorders but no easy way to burn cd's. DAT's played back on the DAT recorder sounded better than cassette copies from the DAT. Same situation at the moment for DSD. DSD will sound better than decimated PCM.
That isn't a very practical solution though. The deck playback will almost certainly be less than ideal. I wonder if deck playback of DSD would sound better or worse than the PCM (assume 24/96 or so) played back through whatever transport?
Also, you'll only be able to play the master DSD file. There is no editing there. No track splits. No normalization. No EQ. Etc. (not saying we all do the above on all/any of our recordings, but still...).
From what I've read so far, AudioGate will allow you to do track splits and boost levels while keeping it in DSD resolution. EQ would be nice but I rarely have to EQ my PCM recordings and have never needed to EQ my DSD recordings.
-
Once we can edit DSD and burn DSD/SACD discs, it will become more interesting to me. As DSD is a closed format, I have doubts that will happen soon. Maybe with more prosumer devices we'll see something.
At this point, the sound of DSD recorded by this is mostly moot because we can't hear it.. So my guess is that it will come down to the converted PCM sound with lots of hype about 'if you could only hear the native dsd!!'.
You can hear true DSD by playing back on the recorder, similar to the old days of having DAT recorders but no easy way to burn cd's. DAT's played back on the DAT recorder sounded better than cassette copies from the DAT. Same situation at the moment for DSD. DSD will sound better than decimated PCM.
That isn't a very practical solution though. The deck playback will almost certainly be less than ideal. I wonder if deck playback of DSD would sound better or worse than the PCM (assume 24/96 or so) played back through whatever transport?
Also, you'll only be able to play the master DSD file. There is no editing there. No track splits. No normalization. No EQ. Etc. (not saying we all do the above on all/any of our recordings, but still...).
From what I've read so far, AudioGate will allow you to do track splits and boost levels while keeping it in DSD resolution. EQ would be nice but I rarely have to EQ my PCM recordings and have never needed to EQ my DSD recordings.
Simple editing within DSD would be one step forward! All I ever do is boost volume (if necessary), split tracks, do fades at the beginning and end of the set, and mix SBD/AUD.
-
here is what i've done thus far.
AG takes your multiple .dxx files and then allows you to combine it as one track, and export it from there. If you need to do edits, you export at 24 or 32 bit. otherwise, off to redbook it goes. Once it spits out that long track you can then split it up w/CD-wav or the software editor of preference.
not to bad.
the conversion time on my laptop was about 3x realtime speed (p4 2.8ghz 1gbRAM). Faster than dithering / resampling with wavlab, for sure.
Here ya go...
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=504837
the final results.
-
Do we know what kind of dithering algorithm is used in the AG software? A lot of the discussion has revolved around how DSD is unaffected by the decimation filters used in PCM. But we all know how the dithering process is performed has a marked effect on the quality of the audio.
So when AG dithers from DSD > PCM, how does the quality of the audio change? (Obviously there is a reduction in resolution)
For technical clarity, dithering is a reduction in the wordlength or actually adding noise. Correct?
-
Do we know what kind of dithering algorithm is used in the AG software? A lot of the discussion has revolved around how DSD is unaffected by the decimation filters used in PCM. But we all know how the dithering process is performed has a marked effect on the quality of the audio.
So when AG dithers from DSD > PCM, how does the quality of the audio change? (Obviously there is a reduction in resolution)
For technical clarity, dithering is a reduction in the wordlength or actually adding noise. Correct?
The issue for me is how the conversion is done. On my computer, Wavelab UV22 HR dithering and downsampling works a whole lot faster than 2 or 3X real time, and the results are way better than with some of the nice freeware (CDwave, Audacity) that friends have used. Does AudioGate have the best algorithms for this, or will I have to look for a DSD editing program? Are there any good DSD editors costing under four figures? I should pull a decent tape tomorrow night and maybe experiment with DSD > 24/96 > Redbook versus DSD > Redbook direct.
Does anyone have any idea if there is any reason to prefer DFF, WSD or DSF for DSD? Is this just a matter of file headers, or is there a difference in audio?
Jeff
-
I think that the Audiogate is the only 'real' solution for us. Sonoma, Paramix, Genex, Sonic Studio and Mykerinos support DSD but are way out of the price range.
However, I have never found out if you could transfer dsd files to the Tascam DVRA1000HD hard drive and then burn the DSF file to disc from the Tascam unit. Still the DVRA1000HD is around $2000.
-
you can still burn dsf files to disc via PC. the Tascam doesn't make playable discs, afaik.
-
oh, and the finished redbook product sounds fantastic to me.
:)
-
you can still burn dsf files to disc via PC. the Tascam doesn't make playable discs, afaik.
Playable with a SACD player? Or as a data disc?
-
you can still burn dsf files to disc via PC. the Tascam doesn't make playable discs, afaik.
But only playable from the Tascam, right? So not good for giving your recordings to people just for private use.
-
you can still burn dsf files to disc via PC. the Tascam doesn't make playable discs, afaik.
Playable with a SACD player? Or as a data disc?
Data.
DSD on disc would be SACD and you have to get that done by an authoring house. >:(
22 min/GB (DSD, 2.8MHz); 4.7GB DVD > 103 min of data.
you can still burn dsf files to disc via PC. the Tascam doesn't make playable discs, afaik.
But only playable from the Tascam, right? So not good for giving your recordings to people just for private use.
Right, the Tascam unit makes discs only playable on the Tascam.
-
you can still burn dsf files to disc via PC. the Tascam doesn't make playable discs, afaik.
Playable with a SACD player? Or as a data disc?
Data.
DSD on disc would be SACD and you have to get that done by an authoring house. >:(
22 min/GB (DSD, 2.8MHz); 4.7GB DVD > 103 min of data.
That's what I thought.
-
Nick,
Your torrent link on etree is registering 'no such torrent found'. Looking forward to checking it out.
+T
-
[/quote]
Right, the Tascam unit makes discs only playable on the Tascam.
[/quote]
Maybe this is NEW to everyone?
http://www.tascam.com/Products/dvra1000_dwb1k.html
-
Maybe this is NEW to everyone?
http://www.tascam.com/Products/dvra1000_dwb1k.html
I think that just converts to PCM? Being able to produce a SACD, etc, would allow the potential of the DSD master to be realized..
I know these recorders can record to PCM or DSD... So, I'm thinking there will be a difference between PCM created natively on the recorder vs. PCM converted via software on the PC. One more thing to check...
-
Depending on if the hardware and software perform the conversion differently. I wrote a guy I have been in touch with who works for KORG tech support and asked him if he knows via which algorithm the DSD > PCM is performed. If both the software and hardware are KORG, then it might be that both perform the conversion using the same method. I'll post the response I get.
-
I was under the impression that at some point they (music folks) were going to try to make the DSD format a bit more open. At least from the authoring standpoint. Because of the way SACDs are made, we're never going to be able to burn them at home (at least not with our computer burners). With several of the PC manufacturers and Apple looking at Blue-Ray, maybe something else will pop up, but I don't think it's likely we'll see SACD burners in our homes anytime soon.
Wayne
-
ITS AN AWSOME MACHINE-I LOVE THE FACT I CAN CAPTURE DSD STANDARD NOW.
IT WILL BE ONLY BUT A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE NEW 1 BIT SOUNDCARDS & ACCESSORIES ON THIS FORMAT OPEN..
THERE IS A MARKET -- THERE WILL BE SOFTWARE DEVELOPED FOR THE MASSES...
THIS IS EVOLUTION CLAIMING ITS OWN RIGHT TO BE HERE- AND MOST WELCOME IT IS..
FOR SOME THIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING..
WELCOME TO EARTH DSD ....
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IS COULD YOU USE THE MR1 AS A SOUNDCARD IN ITSSELF TO ACCESS THE DSD FILES STORED ON PC DRIVE IN DSD FORMAT ----THIS WOULD BE NICE ???
-
sure you can...but 20gb only goes so far and the circuitry for the line out is supposed to be "eh".
but it still sounds great.
-
I think the only recorder able to record and playback DSD and commercially affordable is the Tascam DV-RA1000.....Just wondering if it is possible to transfer the DSD recording via USB from MR-1 to PC/Mac - do the edits then burn a DSD audio disk in the Tascam for achieving/playback. I know the Tascam has all the sockets (SDIF-3 DSD input and output and USB) needed. I think the only way to listen to DSD recording now is from the recorder (or the computer) - and maybe the Tascam.
(Somthing off topic: Anyone know if the MR-1000 has SDIF-3?)
-
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=504837
This link doesn't work for me either.
-
I think the only recorder able to record and playback DSD and commercially affordable is the Tascam DV-RA1000.....Just wondering if it is possible to transfer the DSD recording via USB from MR-1 to PC/Mac - do the edits then burn a DSD audio disk in the Tascam for achieving/playback. I know the Tascam has all the sockets (SDIF-3 DSD input and output and USB) needed. I think the only way to listen to DSD recording now is from the recorder (or the computer) - and maybe the Tascam.
(Somthing off topic: Anyone know if the MR-1000 has SDIF-3?)
I don't think that the DVRA1000 will burn a DSD file from a computer hard drive. When plugged in it shows up as an external drive, but it has limited capapbility. Another possibility would be the DVRA1000HD, to transfer DSD files to the Tascams' HD and then burn them to disc to be played only on the Tascam. And don't some of the VIAO computers have that Sound Reality chip that can process DSD? Either way DSD just isn't set up to be an open solution just yet, no affordable soundcards, no DSD burners (RA1000 but proprietary) or affordable support software (Ahem, AudioGate). But the plus side is the consumer availablity of the format. Definitely a 'shits and giggles' kind of thing, but
it's a good way to record shows in a non PCM, high resolution format, with less manipulation of data. Distribution still has to be done in PCM, the universal format.
And no the MR-1000 dosen't have any digital I/O. That would have made things to easy. ::)
-
I think the only recorder able to record and playback DSD and commercially affordable is the Tascam DV-RA1000.....Just wondering if it is possible to transfer the DSD recording via USB from MR-1 to PC/Mac - do the edits then burn a DSD audio disk in the Tascam for achieving/playback. I know the Tascam has all the sockets (SDIF-3 DSD input and output and USB) needed. I think the only way to listen to DSD recording now is from the recorder (or the computer) - and maybe the Tascam.
(Somthing off topic: Anyone know if the MR-1000 has SDIF-3?)
I don't think that the DVRA1000 will burn a DSD file from a computer hard drive. When plugged in it shows up as an external drive, but it has limited capapbility. Another possibility would be the DVRA1000HD, to transfer DSD files to the Tascams' HD and then burn them to disc to be played only on the Tascam. And don't some of the VIAO computers have that Sound Reality chip that can process DSD? Either way DSD just isn't set up to be an open solution just yet, no affordable soundcards, no DSD burners (RA1000 but proprietary) or affordable support software (Ahem, AudioGate). But the plus side is the consumer availablity of the format. Definitely a 'shits and giggles' kind of thing, but
it's a good way to record shows in a non PCM, high resolution format, with less manipulation of data. Distribution still has to be done in PCM, the universal format.
And no the MR-1000 dosen't have any digital I/O. That would have made things to easy. ::)
Evenif it had a digi out you would still need a DAC to convert DSD to analog
If the MR-1000 has analog out that is all you would need to run it in to an amp. But does it sound good is the big question
-
I recend my last statment. It has USB!
Sorry I'm just getting a little stir crazy waiting for mine. >:D
-
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=504869
that'll do it.
:)
-
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=504869
that'll do it.
:)
The link brings up a page that says No Such Torrent FYI
-
go to the main page, I had to re-re list it.
if you want to hear just a single, then here is the place
http://www.nickspicks.com/MUSIC/bmd2007-03-07d2t05.flac
-
go to the main page, I had to re-re list it.
if you want to hear just a single, then here is the place
http://www.nickspicks.com/MUSIC/bmd2007-03-07d2t05.flac
Much Obliged
-
When you charge the MR-1 do you leave the recorder powered on or off? I turned the power off and plugged in the wall charger for an over night charge. When I powered it back on this morning the battery indicator was like before I started charging...so it seems as if it did not charge last night when the power was off.
-
When you charge the MR-1 do you leave the recorder powered on or off? I turned the power off and plugged in the wall charger for an over night charge. When I powered it back on this morning the battery indicator was like before I started charging...so it seems as if it did not charge last night when the power was off.
I left if off to charge both when it was new out of the box and once since, didn't see this behavior.
Jeff
-
Hmm...maybe is the connection was not secure :-\
Jeff, I sent you an email.
-
same here. doesnt seem to charge when off. no light to tell you its receiving power at all. I left mine on and in rec/pause mode (so that it wouldnt auto shut off) and it charged right up.
-
Oh so it is not only me! It is actually charging when you leave it on with REC/Pause mode - and not just using the external power? So it charges at the same time?
-
yes
-
here's another:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81046.new.html#new
-
Anyone here has Bronze 1000 program (and also the AudioGate/MR-1)?
A simple test:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81082.0.html
-
I posted my result of the test I did to find out who's the culprit in the link above.
-
New firmware for MR-1
Version 1.0.1
http://www.korg.co.jp/Support/Download/Update/MR-1/win.html
Anyone here understand Japanese?
-
New firmware for MR-1
Version 1.0.1
http://www.korg.co.jp/Support/Download/Update/MR-1/win.html
Anyone here understand Japanese?
This new release fixes a small bug that caused the system clock to not keep accurate time. A small but needed fix. It's not related to your other issues. See my post in that thread for more info.
Regards,
Jerry
-
Can you tell me the link for the US download?
-
Today I tried recording at 1bit and the internal battery lasted for about 2 hr 30 mins after a full charge.
That sounds promising. Am I right in thinking the MR1's internal rechargeable cell will have the same short lifespan that the battery in my Microtrack has? I'm looking at having that recorder's battery replaced, but am also feeling the urge to upgrade, possibly to the MR1. Why these devices can't have user-replaceable batteries is beyond me ...
Yes, I have a 4AA-cell pack with USB connector, but I'd really like to keep the extra boxes/cables to a minimum, considering I'm already carrying a box to power the mics.
-
New firmware for MR-1
Version 1.0.1
http://www.korg.co.jp/Support/Download/Update/MR-1/win.html
Anyone here understand Japanese?
This new release fixes a small bug that caused the system clock to not keep accurate time. A small but needed fix. It's not related to your other issues. See my post in that thread for more info.
Regards,
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
Maybe you can let Korg know about this, too?
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81258.msg1080592.html#msg1080592
Thanks!
-
I've had this thing out for 3 excursions in the last week or so. I thought I'd post my thoughts.
I'm coming from using an R9 for the last few months. I'm familiar w/the sound at all of its resolutions.
My first outing was an on stage recording, mastered in DSD and brought straight to redbook. imo, its uncanny.
my 2nd outing was not the best. also DSD mastered and processed as above. just a poor location in the venue. nothing wrong w/it. it recorded what I heard but its nothing to wow about.
my 3rd outing (last night) came out completely awesome. 3D sounding...and get this, I mastered at 16/44 (by mistake...seems it "reset" itself after my last use.)...and it is still a very solid sounding recording, despite using the decks least capabilities in A/D. So far, I like it much better than the R9, which I also was quite happy with. The Korg just sounds a little more natural, things really image better w/the DSD resolution. Maybe its my psyche affect, convincing myself that this $700 shiny thing really is an upgrade over the deck that I enjoyed (and costs 1/2 as much). I'm going to be doing some head to heads with them. I do honestly think it sounds yards better...but this is initial work thus far. I've got a few more shows coming up. some big, some small ...some tight, some far field. We'll see what she has in her.
:-)
as I think i mentioned previously, I'm powering it with a power runner PR2-E which outputs amperage in the double digits at 5v. I have no idea how long this will power it, but I can foresee that I'm safe for my power requirements (which seldom go beyond 5 hours).
its easy to use. fires up super fast and is ready to roll in 2 seconds, give or take 1.
while its rolling, you can go into the menu and adjust levels. Everything seems to be very intuitive. Getting the files off of the unit w/the USB cable (the only option) is a bit strange as you have to tell the deck that its in USB mode, and then tell it that your finished so you can uplug it safely. not very USB like, imo. I"m used to just yankin' cables. But since they (korg) went to the trouble of adding this to the menu and a big warning on the screen when set...I will respect that.
Playback sounds very good to me, but I have not plugged it into my big system. the DSD>FLACs i've made sound better than many of the recent 24bit recordings iv'e made.
No troubles w/the software or the hardware thus far. everything just works.
-
Wow, that's encouraging Nick! I'm looking forward to more head to head comps with the R-09. Maybe I'll break down and jump on this Korg wagon afterall.
-
yea, well...take w/a grain of salt. i've been known to sensationalize in cyberspace.
-
Well I'm not rushing out tomorrow or anything, but that sounds encouraging. I've been a bit put off by the internal battery and closed DSD format, but if this thing turns out to sound significantly better than the Edirol, I may be swayed.
-
This sound promissing. I am getting ready to purchase a small deck as a back up and for limited space recording :wink2:. The only problem I am having with the korg is the limited internal battery. It looks like the R9 walks allover the korg in this aspect. I don't see doing any DSD recording in my near future, 24/48 at best. HHMMM maybe I should wait just a little longer...and see what shacks out of the technology tree......
-
Same deal here. So a pivotal question for me is does the MR-1 sound significantly better than the R-09 when both are recording at 24/48. And I'd be curious to know if recordings done on the MR-1 in DSD then converted via the PC software to 24/48 are any different. Nick?
-
time will tell. I only like recording "real music" for my tests. recording my stereo in the living room doesnt do it for me.
seeing how i'm firmly believing these DSD>redbook conversion do sound better than any of the raw 24bit or 24b>redbook conversions ive made so far this year, I would guess that DSD>anything is going to sound better than raw PCM recorded at whatever sample rate you want.
I also see absolutely no need to go DSD>24bit. CDs sound very, very good, and i'm happy. I'll do some DSD>24bit conversions w/a track from my onstage recording last week and post them for you guys to check out.
-
all this info and yet still no one has posted shots of the internals to see if there is room for a cf card and adapter...
>:D ;D
-
actually, i see no seal, no stickers that say "void if removed".
just a bunch of neatly packaged philips screws on either side.
we'll see how brave i am.
-
time will tell. I only like recording "real music" for my tests. recording my stereo in the living room doesnt do it for me.
seeing how i'm firmly believing these DSD>redbook conversion do sound better than any of the raw 24bit or 24b>redbook conversions ive made so far this year, I would guess that DSD>anything is going to sound better than raw PCM recorded at whatever sample rate you want.
I also see absolutely no need to go DSD>24bit. CDs sound very, very good, and i'm happy. I'll do some DSD>24bit conversions w/a track from my onstage recording last week and post them for you guys to check out.
While I am a big DSD advocate and have been playing around with the format since last June, I'm having a hard time with the comment about DSD> CD sounding better than native 24 bit or as good as DSD>24bit.
I know I will not be doing any DSD>24 bit in the future only because I will either play DSD on the recorder (until new players or software become available) or CD's for convenience. 24 bit is out the door.
I know from all my listening tests over the last nine months that DSD makes PCM sound bad in comparison including DSD>PCM. Now perhaps the AG software has some new dithering scheme that sounds better than everyone elses.
-
I'll be all over DSD once I can playback the format from my PC, across my wireless network, into my LR. Methinks I have a long time to wait. :-\
-
I'll be all over DSD once I can playback the format from my PC, across my wireless network, into my LR. Methinks I have a long time to wait. :-\
Same here.
-
I'll be all over DSD once I can playback the format from my PC, across my wireless network, into my LR. Methinks I have a long time to wait. :-\
That indeed is the clincher. I've been playing everything via computer these days. Converting via software to PCM is a stopgap measure that may be acceptable to me if it sounds better than my current 24/28 PCM recording rig. That difference, if I hear it, could be because of the circuitry & software evolved as much as the DSD format itself.
The convenience and ease of use of the R-09 (batt's, simple card swap, no conversion req.) is the other sie of the coin that will be hard to beat for me.
-
I've put a picture of one of my gear (without the mics) in this link. I've been using it for the past few weeks. Used it a few times now. I'm actually now very pleased with the sound and ease of use ;D
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81311.0.html
(I hope Sony plan's to make a portable DSD recorder since they are the owner of this technology. They made the PCM D1 recorder so hopefully they will make a DSD one, too. It would be very strange if they haven't thought about promoting their own stuff. Hopefully a recorder without mics attached! - Just dreaming).
-
Can you tell me the link for the US download?
Sure, here it is:
http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1242
Regards,
Jerry
-
(I hope Sony plan's to make a portable DSD recorder since they are the owner of this technology. They made the PCM D1 recorder so hopefully they will make a DSD one, too. It would be very strange if they haven't thought about promoting their own stuff. Hopefully a recorder without mics attached! - Just dreaming).
Not to "diss" Sony, since they are a very important partner and leader in promoting the DSD platform, but they are not the owner of the technology. The inventor (Japanese professor at Waseda Univ.) I mentioned in another thread is very much the owner of it and he licensed the technology to Sony/Phillips and some others, including Korg.
Credit where credit is due!
:)
Regards,
Jerry
-
It would be nice if Professor DSD would open up his license on DSD technology so that the format could flourish. As you mentioned Jerry, DSD is proprietary. With Sony/Phillips being on board from the start, I thought that they would have wanted exclusive rights to DSD and SACD, or at least some semblance of control of the license and who would be able to join in their venture (which I'd bet is the case). But if KORG was able to obtain a license from the Prof., then does that mean that Sony/Phillips is no longer guarding their interests as closely as they once were (focusing on Blu-Ray now), OR that Sony/Phillips has no plans to produce a mobile DSD recorder (so that KORGs plans would not infringe on Sony/Phillips' turf). Anyway you cut it, somethings got to give to allow DSD to really open up. But, KORG would also probably hate to see that happen, and give up an essentially zero-competition market place. But (again), from a practical stand-point it would be like selling steak to people with no teeth, what can they do with it, really? Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness ramblings.
Still looking forward to my MR-1000. ;)
-
i need an answer --its my cash im using -- giving it to korg possibly..
i buy mr-1 start rec but cannot edit my rec done in dsd ...
but i want to edit my rec in dsd and not look back..
does korg support the vision of dsd editing for this product - or is korg leaving this to someone else.. ??
is this a future support product..??
has the proffessor got the dsd editing part worked out and can we expect korg to support dsd editing as it evolves & becomes available ....??
will ag support the future via free upgrades to ag or am i to expect more outlay to software.. ??
just what does dsd future mean for korg support to the mr-1???
pc dsd playback--how far or close --can i expect this to happen ..
mr-1 is alone in this world-it needs more tools in all areas-i hope some news for tools is available..
ag does more support for the wav side of things-will it support dsd more in the future ??
well done korg for the vision of the future..
g.
-
my 2nd outing was not the best. also DSD mastered and processed as above. just a poor location in the venue. nothing wrong w/it. it recorded what I heard but its nothing to wow about.
:-)
its easy to use. fires up super fast and is ready to roll in 2 seconds, give or take 1.
while its rolling, you can go into the menu and adjust levels. Everything seems to be very intuitive. Getting the files off of the unit w/the USB cable (the only option) is a bit strange as you have to tell the deck that its in USB mode, and then tell it that your finished so you can uplug it safely. not very USB like, imo. I"m used to just yankin' cables. But since they (korg) went to the trouble of adding this to the menu and a big warning on the screen when set...I will respect that.
Hmmm, that is a red flag for me.. As someone who is blind, I'm glad my Microtrack 2496 an go into USB/PC transfer mode simply by plugging in the USB cable. Can those of you with the MMR1 get into the menus and switch to USB mode reliably, without looking at the display?
I guess what I'm asking is, can you memorize the required button pushes, and are they repeatable? Also, do the menus wrap on this thing or if you are, say, on the last menu item and press down again, do you end up at the top of the menu or do you remain on the last item?
Having menus that don't wrap in this way will at least let me memorize sequences of button pushes.
Some experimenting in the dark, i.e. a darkened venu, would be appreciated, since it is at least a little bit like my situation.
Heck, I'll be happy if the controls are more likely to activate when pressed than the NAV control on my Microtrack - that thing is notoriously undependable, and I usually end up hhanding it to someone with eyeballs and going "ok, go into record options, sampling frequency, and ..."
-
no, the menus do not wrap. buttons are pretty easy to deal with and not "mis press"
I think you'll have an easy time w/this , feeling your way through.
-
I just want to know is it best to keep the gain at 0? Yesterday I had my gain at -15dB with a preamp - I ended up with brickwalling as shown below. The right channel shows brickwalling clearly.
Another question is why brickwalling at -3.9dB at the right channel -any special reason for this value in this particular recording session?? For this particular recording session is it the recorder or the preamp that determine the max vol when brickwalling occurs (in this case -3.9dB right channel)? Would brickwalling always be -3.9dB or different depending on the settings/recorder/preamp??? Do you advise me to increase the recorder gain to 0dB and try and reduce the gain on my MixPre? It's difficult to adjust the gain in my MixPre because when reducing the gain too low you reach a point when you have no signal. It's like an all or nothing signal. I find it extremely difficult to do a gradual increase/decrease of the gain with the MixPre because the complete useable gain range on the mixpre before clipping (without mics) is within a ~2cm turn on the knobs.
-
hmm..
well, you look to have one channel about 4+db hotter than the other?
I run mine at around -10db to -13db when I use my Apogee MMP in front of it. No brickwalling issues to report here, but it does run a little hot.
-
I tried to make both channels the same but a fraction of a mm turn on the MixPre knobs changes the gain to a few dB...That's why I find working with the MixPre difficult. Tonight I will do an experiment and move the MR-1 gain to 0 and move the external preamp closer to the min and see if I get better results. It will be difficult because MixPre knob is not like the V3 or MMA6000 or any other preamps I've used.
One thing I don't understand is who is responsible for my brickwalling when peaks reaches -3.9dB....Is it because my MR-1 has a -15dB gain setting (too low or too high) or my MixPre gain was set too high (no markings on the MixPre knobs so cannot give any value)? And also why -3.9dB and not 0dB for brickwalling?? How did the MR-1 or MixPre decide to have brickwalling when signal reaches -3.9dB and above??
-
One thing I don't understand is who is responsible for my brickwalling when peaks reaches -3.9dB....Is it because my MR-1 has a -15dB gain setting (too low or too high) or my MixPre gain was set too high (no markings on the MixPre knobs so cannot give any value)? And also why -3.9dB and not 0dB for brickwalling?? How did the MR-1 or MixPre decide to have brickwalling when signal reaches -3.9dB and above??
Let's distinguish between "clipping" and "brickwalling". Clipping refers to levels running too hot into the ADC, resulting in >= 3 consecutive samples at 0 dBFS, and occurs in the digital domain. Brickwalling is overloading of an analog stage and not tied directly to dBFS levels in the digital domain. Generally speaking, a squaring off of the waveform at 0 dBFS usually indicates clipping, while squaring off of the waveform at some level below 0 dBFS usually indicates brickwalling. So...in this case, it seems some analog is overloading.
I'm not familiar with the MR-1. Does it provide for line-in and mic-in? If so, confirm you're running line-in. Running mic-in with an external preamp may overload the analog mic input. If it accepts line-in, what dBu level does it accept? Then crosscheck that with the MixPre's dBu output as a starting point for trying to track down the cause. The MixPre's dBu output should be lower than the MR-1's input dBu spec.
-
I may have been the one who first said "brickwalling" in another thread http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80867.msg1076004.html#msg1076004
I only said that b/c what I recorded sounded like what used to happen to me with my D8 long ago. So my apologies if I have muddied the waters. The MR-1 has a switch, "line in" or "mic in" on the top. After further inspection it is possible that my first recording could have been V3 > MR-1 via "mic in". ::) My bad.
-
One thing I don't understand is who is responsible for my brickwalling when peaks reaches -3.9dB....Is it because my MR-1 has a -15dB gain setting (too low or too high) or my MixPre gain was set too high (no markings on the MixPre knobs so cannot give any value)? And also why -3.9dB and not 0dB for brickwalling?? How did the MR-1 or MixPre decide to have brickwalling when signal reaches -3.9dB and above??
Let's distinguish between "clipping" and "brickwalling". Clipping refers to levels running too hot into the ADC, resulting in >= 3 consecutive samples at 0 dBFS, and occurs in the digital domain. Brickwalling is overloading of an analog stage and not tied directly to dBFS levels in the digital domain. Generally speaking, a squaring off of the waveform at 0 dBFS usually indicates clipping, while squaring off of the waveform at some level below 0 dBFS usually indicates brickwalling. So...in this case, it seems some analog is overloading.
I'm not familiar with the MR-1. Does it provide for line-in and mic-in? If so, confirm you're running line-in. Running mic-in with an external preamp may overload the analog mic input. If it accepts line-in, what dBu level does it accept? Then crosscheck that with the MixPre's dBu output as a starting point for trying to track down the cause. The MixPre's dBu output should be lower than the MR-1's input dBu spec.
I think if you add the 15dB gain you are attenuating on the MR-1 to the -3.9dB you get +11.1 dB, which is 5.1 dB higher than the +6dB max input on the MR-1.
-
= "overload clipping shitty sound"
-
I was going line-in when the above happened. Yesterday's concert was an experiment for setting my external preamp levels with MR-1 gain setting at zero. Now I think I got the right settings on my MixPre and I plan to keep the settings...I pulled off the knobs (as Brian suggested) so hopefully it will not change. I plan to adjust the gain slightly on the MR-1 depending on how close I am on the stage, etc... I think leaving it at "0" is a good point so I have lean way both ways. Tonight I will record another concert hope I'm sorted with gain settings!
-
The gain on this thing will remain a mystery until someone does some actual tests and shares the results.. I generally won't run a new recorder without doing those type of tests...
Similarly, nobody has posted a recording of the noise floor at various gain settings...
Korg shoud just send a loaner to guysonic for testing... unless they have something to hide :P
-
I PM guysonic already offering my MR-1 to him to do the test - the only thing is I'll be using it until mid June..So I plan to let him test mine in mid June - if he is still interested. But I hope my DC offset problem (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81258.0.html) on both channels does not affect the test.
-
I PM guysonic already offering my MR-1 to him to do the test - the only thing is I'll be using it until mid June..So I plan to let him test mine in mid June - if he is still interested. But I hope my DC offset problem (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81258.0.html) on both channels does not affect the test.
While Left channel offset does limit full scale output ability, input tests results should not be different than from units with normal or more acceptable near 0 DC output.
However, chance is there's something in the analog processing chain causing this offset, and defective components (usually an IC or leaky coupling capacitor) like this have also been known to have less good low-noise specification.
So maybe this DC problem is really an unacceptable defect that should be corrected by Korg under warranty BEFORE this deck is evaluated?
-
So maybe this DC problem is really an unacceptable defect that should be corrected by Korg under warranty BEFORE this deck is evaluated?
Or BEFORE you record those upcoming shows ;)
I agree that the offset could be caused by an upstream piece of gear, cable, etc.
I'd definitely try and record some music, white noise, etc into the unit directly and see what the offset is. I'd try the recording in both pcm and in dsd.
Maybe test for DC making a recording with dummy load on each balanced input? Suggest using two 100 - 1000 ohm resistors on channel's plus/minus input to ground; requires four resistors total doing the test in this manner.
Solder one end of the resistors directly to miniplug tip/ring and then solder each other end to common sleeve terminal. Make two of these plugs for the test.
Doing a recording with nothing else connected except a passive dummy load should settle the question of an external source causing this offset.
Let us know what you find out.
-
nice.
i'll get the parts for this tomorrow.
Thanks Q
-
Simon,
I PMed you earlier. Converting a DSD file to 44.1/16 pcm and adding 24 dB of gain, I see no digital offset, either with the "DC cut" in AudioGate on or off. So maybe your analog chain has an issue.
Jeff
-
I think this thread may be dead, I've also posted in another venue, but I had the same issue as Scy, regarding clipping/brickwalling. The difference is that I was using mics directly into the inputs on the MR-1 (had setting on mics, not line). http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,82341.0.html
Additional note - somewhere along the way, however, something bad happend to the unit. No physical trauma (dropping, kicking, etc.), and I don't think I severely overloaded it, but now whenever I try to set the recording levels in any of the non-PCM settings, the meters are maxed out even with no input hooked up at all, in PCM there's no signal even with gain turned up, and if I play back the samples on the unit, the sound quality's terrible and there's a wierd rythimic pulsing of the noise level. Called Sweetwater and they conferenced in Korg technical department, who took down the symptoms and said they wanted to do some research and will call back. Sigh. The sound out of this thing is freakin awesome, but then I'm also comparing to a D8 and a MT <grin>. It's a big step up from them, though.
Mike
-
Hi Mike,
I actually set my MR-1 gain to zero now (before it was -15dB). Now I don't get brickwalling and everything seems great. I reduced the gain on my preamp - mixpre. But I just left the gain on my MR-1 at "0". I only used it once since this gain adjustment and in that recording it sounded the best. So I'm quite pleased with it now because there is more head room at the high dB.
I'm going to do some small experiments with my MR-1 this weekend - I've got a feeling what is causing the DC offset in my recordings.
-
nice.
i'll get the parts for this tomorrow.
Thanks Q
Hey Nick, read that you are sending your MR1 to Doug....Is he thinking of doing something with it?
Any thoughts on sending it to guysonic? I'm planning to send mine to guysonic mid June (if he's still interested).
-
no thoughts on guysonic...i'll leave that to you guys.
I just think Doug wants to play w/it for a while.
-
I just nabbed one of these off flea bay. :-* I'm planning to run it off the analog of my V3. Do you think this attenuator Mike posted for an SMB app will work ok (except for balanced on both ends)? http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,56358.msg841636.html#msg841636
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=56358.0;attach=36962;image)
-
That'd probably basically do it, Rodney. But the Mr-1 can take +6dbV, or about +8.3dbu. The V3 puts out +25dbu max, so you really only need 17-18db of attenuation, if you want to go with something lower.
If you use the Rshunt of 301 as Michael suggests, and use Rseries of 1k ohm apiece for the balanced circuit, you'll get about 17.5db of attenuation. So that should work fine, and easy to find 1k ohm resistors.
Anyway, this is a good site for building and planning attenuators:
http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/
-
Cool Thanks Todd. I guess I should have asked about this in the cable forum. :-X
I was wondering if it would be easier to have a little more atten than I needed and then adjust for it on the MR-1 than to hit right on. Basically, I'd like to run high res into the MR-1 and run a 16 bit digi out of the V3 for patchers and backup. Getting them both to run full scale is the trick.
-
Yep, it might make sense to give yourself a little wiggle room. What I've got above is probably the bare minimum you'd want, so attenuation between 17db and 25db should do it.
If you can't easily find 2.5k ohm resistors (half of the 4.99k resistor M. Grace suggests, needed for the balanced circuit), you could go with 2k ohm resistors for Rseries. This would provide ~23db of attenuation.
-
I'm actually building my own attenuator cable made especially for the V3>MR-1 line recording...
This will actually give you exactly what you need (17dB of attenuation) - your meters on your V3 will be the same as your MR-1 when the gain on your MR-1 is zero.
(tip) 10.0K --------------
} 4.99K
(ring) 10.0K --------------
I find it best to keep the gain at zero for my MR-1 - done a lot of recordings and most of the cases were not to my satisfaction. Some sessions even made my recording have brickwalling others with too much noise. My best recordings were all set at zero gain - that's just my personal setting using it with the MixPre.
-
Cool thanks! I guess 0db is the default when the box boots up too so that would be handy!
Edit: BTW if this were for mic attenuation I think you'd want to use a much lower value for the shunt R (in the hundres of ohms vs kohms) to keep the output R down. For this purpose tho I don't think it will matter much but it might not hurt.
Edit again: Use the lower shunt R - 300 or 500 ohm just to be safe even tho our cables will be short. Get extras and match them by hand.
-
so...why do you need attenuators? I dont use any w/my MMP > MR1. I just turn the input on the Korg down to -10db.
-
so...why do you need attenuators? I dont use any w/my MMP > MR1. I just turn the input on the Korg down to -10db.
I've got no experience with the MR-1, but from their published specs, it can only take +6dbV on the line inputs. This is what I posted about the need for attenuators in another thread:
For your specific case of the MR-1, Korg lists the maximum input level as +6dbV. +6dbV is the same as about +8dbu, so the max the MR-1 is +8dbu. The V3 puts out +10dbu when the third green LED is lit, so you'd need to run the V3 so you light up no more than the first 2 green LEDs. If you hit the third green LED, you're overloading your MR-1, with even worse overloading if you hit the 4th green LED. If you hit that first amber LED on the V3, you'll again (like the case of the MT) be overloading the crap out of your MR-1.
The full thread is here: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,82562.0.html
So, if you happen to be running a V3 in front of your MR-1, esp if you want to run a regular pcm recorder on the digital outs of the V3, you'll probably want to run an attenuator between the V3 and MR-1.
No idea about the MMP or how hot a signal it puts out though.
-
IMO, the V3 puts out a stupid hot signal via its analogs. hotter than the V2 is, hotter than my MMP as well.
in any case, the "line in" has a range of -15db > +15 or so, never really looked beyond that. It defaults to 0db. If I run it default, I can barely give my MMP any gain. If I run it at around -10 to -13db, I can run the apogee nice and hot. and the Korg reads a close approximation to what the LEDs on the apogee displays.
-
IMO, the V3 puts out a stupid hot signal via its analogs. hotter than the V2 is, hotter than my MMP as well.
in any case, the "line in" has a range of -15db > +15 or so, never really looked beyond that. It defaults to 0db. If I run it default, I can barely give my MMP any gain. If I run it at around -10 to -13db, I can run the apogee nice and hot. and the Korg reads a close approximation to what the LEDs on the apogee displays.
sounds like the MMP is a nice phantom power box for the MR-1 if you don't have to add barely any gain without attenuating the MR-1 inputs. My guess based on other opinions I've read is that the MR-1 sounds best at 0dB. Maybe phantom power supplies are all that is needed for loud PA recording line in to the MR-1.
-
the apogee's sweeet sound when its peakin' is what I want captured. and i've been VERY happy.
a few times, i've started rollin' w/o setting the gain, and I dont like it that way over turrning it back and adding more apogee gain.
another thing I could try (and will next time), is to leave it at 0db, and attenuate the output of the MMP. It has a little "output" dial, where you can add a little to the signal, or remove a lot. It still runs as hot as the LEDs signify, but the outputs are tame. The MR1 will probably like that.
-
(tip) 10.0K --------------
} 4.99K
(ring) 10.0K --------------
This is only a ratio of 4, 20 log(4) gives 12dB. I'm building this now and the ratio needs to be 7 or higher to get 17dB.
Am I doing bad math or is there another trick?
-
I contacted Nick about sending a sample file to Audiofile Engineering to see if they could support the 1 bit format into their Wave Editor software. I've been using Wave Ed. for a while now and really love it. I plan on buying an Mr-1 so I thought I'd see if they could set it up to import the files without converting them first. I just checked and it is on their to do list. So keep and eye on;audiofile-engineering.com (http://www.audiofileengineering.com)
-
[de-lurk]
This is the site of the "1-Bit Audio Consortium" who specified the WSD DSD format supported by the MR-1.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.acoust.rise.waseda.ac.jp/1bitcons/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1-bit%2BAudio%2BConsortium%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGGL,GGGL:2006-32,GGGL:en%26sa%3DG (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.acoust.rise.waseda.ac.jp/1bitcons/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1-bit%2BAudio%2BConsortium%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGGL,GGGL:2006-32,GGGL:en%26sa%3DG)
The PDF of the WSD spec is available on this site. It's in Japanese, but it's not too hard to understand.
http://www.acoust.rise.waseda.ac.jp/1bitcons/pdf/020917wsd.pdf (http://www.acoust.rise.waseda.ac.jp/1bitcons/pdf/020917wsd.pdf)
They also have sample WSD data files to download.
I'd love to see direct support for DSD file formats, but I suspect won't be all that useful until applications learn to deal with DSD data directly.
p.s. I recently bought a MR-1 and have found the information on Taperssection very useful. Thanks.
-
Taped Govt Mule Friday night at the Wanee Festival
Gefell m210 > V3 > 20db attenuator > KORG MR-1 at 1bit/2.8MHz
Got it right this time! Sounds nice. Now, what should I do with the file(s)? Convert to which resolution?
PM me if anyone wants a copy in 1bit/2.8MHz
-
Now, what should I do with the file(s)? Convert to which resolution?
Seed the 1 bit version on dime! ;)
#2
-
Tonight I recorded (stealth) a violin recital... 2nd time on the row with amazing results. Sounded better than open rig setup done tonight.
Someone with an open rig used AKG mics (cardi) > MiniMe > MT, it didn't sound so good. The piano was muffled. Sounded as if the pianist was playing under a pillow.
I stealth among the audience using DPA4052 > MixPre > MR-1 (zero gain) .... What suprised me was it sounded better than setups done on stage! Very clean and clear. Both piano and violin was well balanced and the sound was bright - not dull and muffled like the open rig setup.
Getting really a hang on this recorder with my pramp and mic combination.
-
Simon,
Are you going direct from DSD to 16/44.1 or do you edit at a higher resolution pcm?
Jeff
-
I go straight to 16/44.1
Do all my edits in 16/44.1
Should I edit in a different bit/frequency before going to red book? Any benefits in doing that?
Jeff..you should try using your 4052s (and the MixPre or SD MP-2) with your MR-1. It's a really good combination when your settings are set properly...The first few times sounded terrible for me but after playing around with all the settings everything turned out better than expected.
-
I'm finding my MR-1 to be a nifty piece of gear, but there are some growing pains.
I've found some bugs in operating the MR-1 on several occasions now. I'm not sure how to get this information to Korg.
- While a track is playing or paused you can't successfully rename the file. But it lets you try. Then it fails with and error. It should work or it shouldn't let you try.
- Sometimes letters are displayed incorrectly in the library track names. e.g. "SYNERGY7" displays as "SVNERGV7" and sometimes "SVNERGY7". When I go back into the rename screen the letters are correct.
- Sometimes when the backlight is off scrolling with the thumbwheel does not turn it back on, but a button press does. It seems any button press or scrolling should turn it back on. Also the backlight times out and turns off even when the thumbwheel is being scrolled. This is especially annoying with a short backlight timeout.
- Sometimes the backlight doesn't timeout and turn off when the machine is recording or playing. This may have something to do with the hold function but not always.
- Wishlist: An easier way to enter a space in the track naming screen. (Currently you have to hit INS then >) It would be nice if there was one button.
- Wishlist: A shortcut for toggling from capital letters to lowercase and back in the track naming screen. i.e. a shift key of some sort.
- If the machine dies in mid-recording due to running out of power the track info doesn't get written to the library. Thus the MR-1 doesn't see the recording in its library. But the files are there when viewed from the PC. It seems the individual files that make up a recording can be loaded and concatenated in the AudioGate software from the PC.
- The battery charge indicator sometimes gets very confused. This maybe happened after the recorder's battery ran out and the recorder shutdown. But I've seen this a couple of times now. The battery runs down. I charge the unit. The battery shows full. Then soon thereafter is shows one tick on the battery indicator yet it will play for hours.
- When plugged into the computer using USB it indicates the battery is being charged, but it isn't. (e.g. You connect using USB, then eject but leave the recorder connected.) It seems to be getting enough power to operate from USB, but not enough to charge. This is confusing. There should be a different indication if it's getting external power, but not charging.
- Wishlist: When turned off and plugged into the power adapter the battery seems to be charging, but there's no indication.
-
One thing I can't figure out is if this thing charges at all. I plug in the power cord, it appears to charge, then the unit turns itself off, even with the "HOLD" button engaged.
Does this thing actually charge when the unit is off?
-
Yeh....I usually charge it for 12-24 hrs plugged in while turned off. The next morning/day I'll see the battery meter full compared to empty before charging. If you are charging and your MR-1 is on...you're actually sucking power from your internal at the same time charging the internal. So that is why I leave it charging when the MR-1 is off over night. It takes longer to charge when the MR-1 is on because what ever you are putting into the internal will be used to power your MR-1.
-
Ran mine on Sat night for the first time. I decided at the last minute to make some quickie unbalanced cables. I didn't have the right resistors to build in enough cut but it worked ok with another -11dB on the box. I think unity gain will be better next time.
- Sometimes the backlight doesn't timeout and turn off when the machine is recording or playing. This may have something to do with the hold function but not always.
I noticed you can go back in the menu and re-select your backlight time and it will start working again. Even if you just select the same value.
First impression stuff I liked:
- No wall wart plugin - an actual plug and cable thank you.
- Snappy interface.
- Easy to run, lets you go in and out of menu while still recording. Good for changing gain on the fly for example.
- Nice imaging.
Stuff I dunno about:
- I'm highly suspicious of the software and especially the dither algorithm. It will let you convert wav files too and I have a 24/48 copy from the V3 to compare so we can check out some comparisons. Maybe we should add AudioGate to the dither comparison thread.
- I'm happy with the DSP but a little concerned about the front end. Hopefully running 0dB will take care of that.
-
...
I've found some bugs in operating the MR-1 on several occasions now. I'm not sure how to get this information to Korg.
...
- Sometimes letters are displayed incorrectly in the library track names. e.g. "SYNERGY7" displays as "SVNERGV7" and sometimes "SVNERGY7". When I go back into the rename screen the letters are correct.
Oops. I think I figured out what was causing this. Operator error. The rename screen uses a different font from the library screen (I think they are the old Macintosh classic New York and Chicago fonts). Somehow I was accidentally entering the letter V instead of Y, and they look almost the same in the rename screen but very different on the library screen.
-
(tip) 10.0K --------------
} 4.99K
(ring) 10.0K --------------
This is only a ratio of 4, 20 log(4) gives 12dB. I'm building this now and the ratio needs to be 7 or higher to get 17dB.
Am I doing bad math or is there another trick?
I don't know...That is what Grace Design told me to build. After making the attenuator cable it seems as if the attenuator cable didn't reduce the MR-1 levels to exactly the same as the V3 levels (MR-1 gain was set at zero). When I did the test I was about 10dB out...so when my V3 was showing 27dBFS my MR-1 was showing ~ -17dB. The people in Grace design is actually helping me out with this problem now...they are very helpful.
-
here is something recently figured out.
if you set up the drive how you like it, ie: recording levels, file format..etc., it'll maintain those settings when powered down.
UNTIL...you format the drive. all the settings go back to default, which is 0db and "WAV" file.
note to self...
-
here is something recently figured out.
if you set up the drive how you like it, ie: recording levels, file format..etc., it'll maintain those settings when powered down.
UNTIL...you format the drive. all the settings go back to default, which is 0db and "WAV" file.
note to self...
Luckily I found this out while I was still playing with the MR-1 and not when I took it out for a spin. The MR-1000 has the same feature, except it defaults to dff files at 5.6 Mb/s.
Jeff
-
I tweaked my cables around a little more. The schematic Mike gave us a while back is wrong too. I'll fix it later today.
You need 20dB reduction to match perfectly from the V3. I made an unbalanced cable which gives -6dB right off and then you can build in the extra 14dB with 1.5K in series and 301 in shunt. I only had a 323 ohm resistor so I'm about 1dB off but 301 will work perfectly.
Gotta run off to a meeting right now, I'll be back in a few :D
==========================================
Edit: I guess Mike's drawing is ok - you just need to connect 3 and 1 together too. Maybe it's ok to leave it floating but I connected it.
If you make the unbalanced version use 301 ohm and 1.5K ohm, that will give another -14dB on top of -6dB for unbalanced.
If you make the balanced version, use 301 ohm and 1.5K ohm on each branch. That will give -20dB.
Making it balanced for line level signal is sorta like a belt and suspenders. You are now talking about a signal in the Volts range instead of micro Volts and there is no more amplification in the chain. The unbalanced version uses one less resistor making it easier to fit and will generate a bit less thermal noise as well.
-
I've tried driving my MR-1 with an external Zap! Li-Ion D14 battery, but it didn't work to run the recorder once the built-in battery ran down. I think I tried driving the MR-1 through both the USB port and the charger socket.
The stock Korg charger is rated at 5V and 2.4A. The Zap battery is rated at 1.5A at 5V. I suspect the Zap just doesn't have enough amperage to operate or charge the MR-1.
I've noticed that the MR-1 will operate when connected to the computer via USB even if the battery is dead (i.e after ejected from desktop), but it doesn't seem to charge from USB because the MR-1 battery will still be dead when disconnected.
What kind of success have others had operating the MR-1 from an external battery? Any tips?
-
I think either of the Tekkeon batteries will do the trick. There is a mention of on in the fist post of this thread. I tried out the 3300 for a little while on mine and it seems ok. Don't know about how long it will run but it looks like at least 6 hours.
Listening to some comps I made off my stereo (mic level out of mixer > V3 > pad cables > mr1) and I'm a lot happier about the front end of this box today.
-
So your cable pad now gives a 19dB attenuation?
-
Hi all,
The pad design we made for scyue was based on three assumptions:
1) The reported difference in level between the V3 meters and the MR-1 meters is 17dB
2) The input impedance of the MR-1 is 10k Ohms (balanced)
3) The MR-1 maximum input level is +6dBV (for 0dBFS)
The last two assumption here are based on the specifications listed in the MR-1 manual. The last one was probably an erroneous assumption because upon further thinking it seems that this specification must indicate the highest voltage level the input electronics can handle and not the 0dBFS input level.
What is the Voltage level required at the input of the MR-1 to achieve a level of 0dBFS? This is not clear in the manual, but we have a unit on its way here so we will be able to test this next week.
In the meantime I am including the formulas used to calculate the pad circuit.
To determine the Voltage ratio of this pad you must first know the input impedance of the device being fed by this circuit. The parallel resistance of the device input impedance and R3 determines the actual resistance of R3 In the case of the MR-1, the specified input impedance (from the owners manual) is 10k Ohms. The parallel resistance can be calculated with the following formula:
Rparallel=(R3*Rdevice)/(R3+Rdevice)
Use this resistance in the following equation to calculate the Voltage ratio of the pad:
Vratio=(Rparallel)/(R1+R2+Rparallel)
In the 17dB pad example circuit the 4.99k resistor is in parallel with a 10k resistor which makes a total of 3.40k Ohms
With the two 10k series resistors the voltage ratio is 0.145
You can then calculate the dB drop with:
dB=20*log(Vratio)
The example pad is -16.74dB
I hope this is helpful. Once we get our hands on an MR-1 well make an exact measurement and post it here.
Cheers,
Michael
-
Mr. Grace just got his 100th ticket. Very useful info. Thank you very much.
And I will ask: How would setting a -20db balanced cable be different from putting the -20db pad on inside the V3 and running a set of regular balanced cables? Or am I looking at this incorrectly?
-
And I will ask: How would setting a -20db balanced cable be different from putting the -20db pad on inside the V3 and running a set of regular balanced cables? Or am I looking at this incorrectly?
the -20dB pad on the V3 is on the input side. if you use that pad, you'll just need to run the V3 20dB than you would have to otherwise, but the analog output level will be the same. On the other hand, if you use a -20dB attenuator on the output of the V3, then you will be lowering the output level of the analog outs, the purpose being to allow whatever downstream gear you are using to handle the V3 output, as not too much gear can handle a +25 dBu analog signal.
-
Thank you Jason. I didn't realize the V3's pad was on the inputs. Either that or I had forgotten since I used it in July.
-
one more reason the MMP tromps as a preamp.
that little output attenuator dial is *the shit*
:)
-
So your cable pad now gives a 19dB attenuation?
Yes - it's on the xlr end. I realized yours was just on the other end last night. Sorry for the confusion!
I made it unbalanced which gives -6db (from the V3 manual). I used 1.5k and 330 (1473 & 323 after some handmatching) to get another 13dB. Now, I'm going to build some nicer cables with final values 301 and 1.5k - done twiddling -20dB will nail it.
Here is Mikes old drawing again. I changed the Rs and tied pins 1 & 3.
BTW Mike, if I brought in my amp could you change the output drive by -20dB, or is that harder to do than say?? Also, it seems a lot easier to make the pad on the XLR end. Does that pose a problem?
-
or ..., an output POT on the back...a little screw aka MME to attenuate the level.
that would be slick.
-
another question (i guess this is rather for the cables section, but since its MR-1 related i hope someone can answer me the question here)
I want to connect my MR-1 to a soundboard - now the problem is that every mini phone cable that i did find is stereo.
Does it make no difference if two stereo mini phone cables are plugged into the MR-1?
E.g. two of these : http://www1.conrad.de/scripts/wgate/zcop_b2c/~flN0YXRlPTE3MjM0MjQ1NDE=?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&glb_user_js=Y&shop=B2C&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=&product_show_id=300901&p_init_ipc=X&p_page_to_display=fromoutside&~cookies=1&cookie_n[1]=b2c_insert&cookie_v[1]=F0&cookie_d[1]=&cookie_p[1]=%2f&cookie_e[1]=Thu%2c+24-May-2007+11%3a54%3a06+GMT&cookie_n[2]=b2c_hk_cookie&cookie_v[2]=WW2&cookie_d[2]=&cookie_p[2]=%2f&cookie_e[2]=Thu%2c+24-May-2007+11%3a54%3a06+GMT&scrwidth=1280
Also id need two Cinch > mini phone cables but have no idea where to get these in europe. Does anyone have suggestions or knows someone who can tailor such cables?
Thanks,
Jan
-
you can't use a stereo cable. the inputs are balanced. a stereo cable is wired differently, and carrying two unbalanced signals.
-
I want to connect my MR-1 to a soundboard - now the problem is that every mini phone cable that i did find is stereo.
Does it make no difference if two stereo mini phone cables are plugged into the MR-1?
I have been using a balanced cable with a 1/4" male plug on the end and then using a stereo 1/4" female to stereo mini male adapter (i.e. a headphone adapter). I think this is ok. It's a little clunky and puts a bit of strain on the MR-1 input jack though.
-
hmmm....
a stereo mini has 3 contacts. when wired for "stereo", the tip is left, the ring is right and the rest is ground.
when wired as "balanced", the tip is + the ring is - and the rest is ground.
using a plug wired for stereo is not a balanced input. it would be wired backwards and out of phase.
-
hmmm....
a stereo mini has 3 contacts. when wired for "stereo", the tip is left, the ring is right and the rest is ground.
when wired as "balanced", the tip is + the ring is - and the rest is ground.
using a plug wired for stereo is not a balanced input. it would be wired backwards and out of phase.
?
I would think any 3 conductor wire would be fine...the purpose might differ, but the wires should be the same...
-
So your cable pad now gives a 19dB attenuation?
Yes - it's on the xlr end. I realized yours was just on the other end last night. Sorry for the confusion!
I made it unbalanced which gives -6db (from the V3 manual). I used 1.5k and 330 (1473 & 323 after some handmatching) to get another 13dB. Now, I'm going to build some nicer cables with final values 301 and 1.5k - done twiddling -20dB will nail it.
Here is Mikes old drawing again. I changed the Rs and tied pins 1 & 3.
BTW Mike, if I brought in my amp could you change the output drive by -20dB, or is that harder to do than say?? Also, it seems a lot easier to make the pad on the XLR end. Does that pose a problem?
I looked at the pcb and it would not be very difficult to put the attenuator on the outputs of the V3. the only real drawback here is that it is relatively permanent and if you needed the outputs at full line level then you would be stuck. If this is not an issue for you fell free to bring the unit by and we can make the modification.
Building the pad circuit in an XLR cable connector is fine also. While the ultimate way to do it would be to have the resistors at the destination end of the cable as long as we are talking about short cables (under a few meters) it shouldn't be an issue to have them in the xlr. Also, it makes sense to take advantage of the balanced input on the MR-1 and use a balanced attenuator and cable. I don't think there will be any measurable noise contribution from resistor thermal noise in this circuit.
Buy the way, I assume that the main reason for needing the pad in the first place is so that you can run the V3 A/D converter at the same time you are feeding the MR-1 and have matching recording levels on both. If you are simply running the MR-1 it seems you should be able to turn the gain down enough on the V3 to provide a proper level for the MR-1. Is this the case? (We have not been able to actually determine the MR-1 input sensitivity yet)
Mike
-
Buy the way, I assume that the main reason for needing the pad in the first place is so that you can run the V3 A/D converter at the same time you are feeding the MR-1 and have matching recording levels on both.
Yes, that's our mission.
Thanks for all the help!!
-
Here's what I have found regarding the input alignment of the MR-1.
In DFF mode the top of the MR-1 meter scale is +3. However, it is probably best practice to not use a DSD level higher than 0dBFS.
To align the V3 and MR-1 levels we need a pad of approximately -23.8dB
In the pad circuit shown earlier in the thread we need a total shunt resistance of 1380 Ohms.
I measured the input impedance of the MR-1 to be 54k Ohms, not the 10k as indicated in the manual.
With a 54k input impedance R3 should be 1416k Ohms. I had a 1.4k Ohm 1% resistor here and the pad came out just right.
Korg MR-1 input levels with record level set to 0dB
DSD Mode
0dBFS -0.8dBV 1.4dBu 0.94V
Top meter bar(+3) 1.9dBV 4.2dBu 1.25V
0.6% THD+N(clip) 4.9dBV 7.2dBu 1.76V
PCM Mode
0dBFS -0.8dBV 1.4dBu 0.94V
0.6% THD+N(clip) -0.6dBV 1.6dBu 0.93V
Maximum input level with record level set to anything less than -8.4dB is 8.4dBV. This is the analog input circuit clip level which means that any record level setting below -8.4dB
will only serve to limit the dynamic range of the MR-1 as the input stage will clip before the ADC.
I hope this info is helpful.
Michael
-
One question for people using these Korg's. Which format are you recording in, DSDIFF, DSF, WSD?
-
I'm using DFF.
-
One question for people using these Korg's. Which format are you recording in, DSDIFF, DSF, WSD?
They seem to be pretty much equivalent. The only difference is what other software and tools the various formats would be compatible with. I don't know of any accessible software besides the Korg AudioGate that supports any of them.
I think DSDIFF is compatible with SonicStudio Nexstage. DSF is a Sony format that is supported by their VAIO systems with built-in DSD/SACD engine (I don't think Sony makes any of those systems any more). WSD is an openly defined standard, but I don't know of anything that supports it.
I've been using WSD because it seems like it has the most potential for third party support.
-
One question for people using these Korg's. Which format are you recording in, DSDIFF, DSF, WSD?
They seem to be pretty much equivalent. The only difference is what other software and tools the various formats would be compatible with. I don't know of any accessible software besides the Korg AudioGate that supports any of them.
I think DSDIFF is compatible with SonicStudio Nexstage. DSF is a Sony format that is supported by their VAIO systems with built-in DSD/SACD engine (I don't think Sony makes any of those systems any more). WSD is an openly defined standard, but I don't know of anything that supports it.
I've been using WSD because it seems like it has the most potential for third party support.
I've been using dff, because it's the default and I'm lazy ;D
AudioGate will convert one to another, when I have a few minutes it might be interesting to try dff -> wsd -> dff to check that I get the same file back again.
Jeff
-
Maximum input level with record level set to anything less than -8.4dB is 8.4dBV. This is the analog input circuit clip level which means that any record level setting below -8.4dB
will only serve to limit the dynamic range of the MR-1 as the input stage will clip before the ADC.
Very helpful in fact! Did you happen to look at the gain side of the buffers as well?
-
good to know.
+T
-
So, for those of us who don't have expensive PRE's to run in front, how does the MR-1 perform with CSB's, or other small microphones plus battery box, running straight into the 1/8" inputs?
thanks.
-
So, for those of us who don't have expensive PRE's to run in front, how does the MR-1 perform with CSB's, or other small microphones plus battery box, running straight into the 1/8" inputs?
thanks.
On a related note I was wonder if (a) anyone runs DPA 406x's directly into a MR-1 with a pair of these adapters:
DPA DAD6007 (Micro Dot to Mini)
(http://dpamicrophones.com/Images/DM00783.jpg)
or (b) if not, then do you think this will work.
I have a MMA6000, but I thought this might be nice for situations when I need to carry as little as possible.
-
I dont think it will provide enough power to run them directly.
-
I didn't think the R-09's approximatly 3v (current?) plugin power would be enough to power the 406x either but supposedly they do according to others around here. I may have to look into a pair of those DAD6007 adapters but I'm afraid to check the price. ;)
-
maybe they wake up, but they want 9v to work fully.
-
maybe they wake up, but they want 9v to work fully.
Actually they need 5v. From DPA's site;
Power supply: Min. 5 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter
Edit; I just checked the mic voltage on my mma6000, with a new battery its feeding about 7.5V to the mics.
-
there we are.
:)
-
Hi,
Looking into the Mr-1 brought up some concerns/questions with durability/hardrive:
Being that there is a hard drive built into the machine wouldnt movement out in the field be likely to damage the hard drive
in the Mr-1, or could the hard drive be of a different make created to handel and hold up during field use?
Hard drives tend to make noise, is the noise on th hd of the Mr-1 silent enough to avoid recording while recording in low
sound situations?
My choice in choosing the Mr-1 as a recording deck would be for "sound quality" and "durability", after reading some threads
on the R-09's "issue's" with durability as well as M-audio's MicroTrk "issues" with durability (that makes me think twice in
purchasing either of the two) I was wondering how the Mr-1 would compare?
Thanks for any info!
-
My MR-1 shut down last night while in the bag. Too hot I'm guessing. Just wanted to let everyone know, a hot gear bag and MR-1 not a good idea.
-
My MR-1 shut down last night while in the bag. Too hot I'm guessing. Just wanted to let everyone know, a hot gear bag and MR-1 not a good idea.
If you 'have to' run inside an equipment bag where the gear gets excessively hot, I suggest leaving enough room inside to place a few of those soft freezer cooling pouches inside next to the gear (do not freeze these as this causes water condensation troubles). The pouches act as a heat-sink and will delay the inside of the bag from fast rising temperatures caused by normal gear heat, and outside sun exposure.
-
"...wouldn't movement out in the field be likely to damage the hard drive in the MR-1..."
The small hard drives used in music players are pretty durable. There are millions of iPods and other music players in use with small hard drives, and they rarely experience disc failure. Of course you need to take some precautions. Don't drop the recorder, and stay away from the mosh pit if you're recording. Don't set the recorder on a surface that vibrates with the music (or the dancing).
The MR-1's one-bit recording produces a prodigious data stream. The 20GB drive in the MR-1 is sufficient to hold only about 7 hours of one-bit 2.88mHz recordings. That's why a 4GB Compactflash card wouldn't work well as storage for a one-bit recorder.
Flash memory has three main advantages over a hard disc. Flash memory is more durable, faster, and uses less electric power than a hard disc does. Hard disc is cheaper per MB, and available in capacities larger than flash memory offers today.
I saw a name-brand 16GB Compactflash card for about $105 after rebates from a reputable dealer this weekend. As flash memory gets cheaper and available in larger capacities, I expect manufacturers of field recorders that use hard discs (e.g., Korg, Edirol R4) to switch over to flash memory for storage. Future iPods and even laptops will switch to flash memory, too.
Flintstone
-
i've seen a handheld PC, or some sort of sub laptop (can't recall...I might have just read about it), that ran XP and had a 32gb flash based storage setup.
slick as shit.
-
I'm still convinced the HD can probably be replaced with an ata-CF adapter and 8 or 16GB CF card. still haven't seen pics of the insides of one though, so can't be sure.
If this recorder had fewer usability issues, I'd probably buy one and try it. but for now I'll wait for someone else to do DSD better.
-
what "usability issues" do you speak of?
I have no problem w/mine. in fact, its a piece of cake to run, and reliable 100% thus far.
-
what "usability issues" do you speak of?
I have no problem w/mine. in fact, its a piece of cake to run, and reliable 100% thus far.
I'll second that question. Speaking from an mr-1000 point of view, it's been 100% reliable.
Wish I could say the same for that POS Microcrap and very unreliable CF media
I used to own...
-
"usability issues"
I asked the question based on some reviews I have read on the R-09/Microtrack, crappy battery lid, firmware updates on the
microtrack would cause (some) units to "die" etc. etc. I realize the Mr-1 is a new unit out on the market and only time will tell
on how the unit holds up.
I decided to go ahead and purchase the Mr-1 yesterday, (couldnt wait anymore!). So far this little machine is very impressive!
(Using the included mic) audio recorded in the DSD format sounds " A M A Z I N G ", (I cant wait to pair the Mr-1 with quality
mics/pre-amp!!). :) Very happy!
Thanks for the response!
-
I'm still convinced the HD can probably be replaced with an ata-CF adapter and 8 or 16GB CF card. still haven't seen pics of the insides of one though, so can't be sure.
If this recorder had fewer usability issues, I'd probably buy one and try it. but for now I'll wait for someone else to do DSD better.
The MR1 is at a price point where I get much more concerned about quality and longevity than say the r09 @ $330ish...
So I agree about the unproven nature of the beast. I am was disappointed in how the mr1000 was bungled in terms of gain structure, no hold button, etc so that (and my microtrack disappointment) makes me fairly cautious about the mr1.
Nobody has even gotten an eval unit to actually check the basic real world noise specs and gain structure in both pcm and dsd.. Hello Korg? Send a unit to guysonic. Sheesh.
I'm still wondering about the conversion software and the various issues I've read. Never really saw a resolution. I also wonder.. How long has Korg committed to supporting the software? Will they orphan it in a couple of years?
I'd like an r09 replacement that is closer to the 722 in sound... but so far not enough recordings have been released to answer that question..
-
what "usability issues" do you speak of?
I have no problem w/mine. in fact, its a piece of cake to run, and reliable 100% thus far.
I'll second that question. Speaking from an mr-1000 point of view, it's been 100% reliable.
Wish I could say the same for that POS Microcrap and very unreliable CF media
I used to own...
Yes the MR-1 is 100% reliable....My MT has drop-outs sometimes and channel exchange (left become right and vice versa) when recording digital in using the current firmware using a Kingston 8GB 45X card @ 24/96.
-
shit..
having gone through an MT, two R9s...the price point doenst bother me.
so far, this deck *smokes* those two in every area I have a concern with.
it sounds fantastic, is easy to use and is built like a tank comparred to either of those other two decks.
as far as real world tests go...i'm unconcerned. plugging it in to measurement gear looking at wav forms in sofware is far from "real world" use ....at least in my world.
while that info is useful, I doesn't make me... or keep me from ... buying that product.
-
I was refering to lots of little things people have mentioned
-battery life
-heat/HD - I'd never put a HD device in half the scenarios I tape in. too hot and too bumpy.
-included software seems downright juvenile.
-the weak analog stage
-the charging issues
-if you format the drive settings get reset
basically, I agree that it sounds a bit better than the r-09, but I just can't see the MR-1 getting anywhere near the r-09 in terms of ease of use. Aside from the potential jack issue (which has a fix I'm happy with), I've found the r-09 nearly impossible to screw up. The MR-1 just has too many things that I think would annoy me.
I suspect there'll be a version 2 of both the MR-1 and MR-1000 in about a year. hopefully then...
-
the only thing the R9 has over it is battery life and ease w/the 2xAA approach. but...that is until you break the little door to get in there.
the juvinile software..., you've used?
weak analog stage? huh? where did I miss that.
charging issues?
-
the juvinile software..., you've used?
weak analog stage? huh? where did I miss that.
charging issues?
I think there was an erroneous early report that the MR-1 would not charge if not turned on. This is not true, it's just hard to tell it's charging.
The AudioGate software is usable but not good for conversions to pcm at 96kH or 192kH (okay at 48 or 44.1) because of hf noise left in. I suppose this is what is meant.
Reliable word on the analog stage is not yet in. I have seen no tests, but most have agreed it sounds good, which is a good start.
Jeff
-
this "hf noise" at resampling is something that is inaudiable, but visible in a wav form, (from what I understand).
i've done several DSD>24/96 conversions and they *sound* freakin' great.
somtimes we see to loose touch w/that part of our hobbie. that is, how things actualy sound...
-
It makes it very hard to edit the wav except by ear, and since we can't edit the dsd stream I think a fix is needed. But I agree we can wait on this. The only thing that keeps me from using the MR-1 as my main engine is that the Sonosax MiniR82 is such a freaking great machine.
Jeff
-
Hi folks:
I see you discussing the DSD->176/192 conversion issue, and I've already posted about the new 1.5 OS and the new version of AudioGate that adds new filtering options specifically to address this concern.
I'd be very interested for some of you owners to try the new software and give me feedback on the fixes/improvements.
MR-1:
http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1267
MR-1000:
http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1266
Regards,
Jerry
-
I updated to the new OS, version 1.5.0. But now across the top is this:
"Filter 1"
Anyone know what this is?
-
Just got an email from Minidisco, with a $100 discounton the MR-1, $699 down to $599 US. I haven't been tracking the price elsewhere. Is that typical, or am I likely to find it lower somewhere else?
-
I paid $550 on ebay for what amounted to an open box item. It wasn't a problem but I would have given $40 more for NIB.
Edit: $50 even :D
-
great prices..imo.
Jerry...
could someone perhaps elaborate on the filters, what they do exactly...etc?
there is no mention of them in the manual or www site that I can find.
-
I updated to the new OS, version 1.5.0. But now across the top is this:
"Filter 1"
Anyone know what this is?
Yes, I got the same thing on the top. Maybe Jerry can answer that when he returns/read our messages.
-
I've been running MV-100 > MR-1 a couple of times, and man what an easy set up. Just turn it on and go! Nice and compact too, could stealth easily with this set up.
-
Hi folks:
I see you discussing the DSD->176/192 conversion issue, and I've already posted about the new 1.5 OS and the new version of AudioGate that adds new filtering options specifically to address this concern.
I'd be very interested for some of you owners to try the new software and give me feedback on the fixes/improvements.
MR-1:
http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1267
MR-1000:
http://www.korg.com/service/downloadinfo.asp?DID=1266
Regards,
Jerry
I've downloaded the firmware updates, but where is the link to the AudioGate upgrade? It is described, but I can't find a link to a download!
Jeff
-
I found it when I downloaded the link Jerry posted...it's in the same folder as your downloaded stuff from Jerry's link. If you download the whole thing you will see it (maybe ;D )....I saw both in my folder.
-
OOps, you're right, it's there. You have to unzip it a second iteration!
Jeff
-
My apologies, I didnt' mean to imply that the analog stage sounded bad, just that it seemed like people were having issues feeding it a pro level signal.
and by charging issues, I was refering to the fact that it's difficult to tell if it's charging while off. (jeff refered to this)...that's one of those little things that just makes me feel uneasy about the effort that went into the design of these things (like the lack of a hold button on the MR1000...). The cheeziest of cell phones get charging indicators right...and a prosumer audio device can't?
Yes, I've used the software, though briefly.
but the biggest one is the reset settings on format...that would drive me up a wall. fix this, and make it use CF cards, and I'm there, even if it's $1000.
-
My apologies, I didnt' mean to imply that the analog stage sounded bad, just that it seemed like people were having issues feeding it a pro level signal.
and by charging issues, I was refering to the fact that it's difficult to tell if it's charging while off. (jeff refered to this)...that's one of those little things that just makes me feel uneasy about the effort that went into the design of these things (like the lack of a hold button on the MR1000...). The cheeziest of cell phones get charging indicators right...and a prosumer audio device can't?
Yes, I've used the software, though briefly.
but the biggest one is the reset settings on format...that would drive me up a wall. fix this, and make it use CF cards, and I'm there, even if it's $1000.
It does seem this first model is in GREAT NEED OF REFINEMENT in user acceptable terms.
It may be a true test of a great company and product not that all the products they produce are near 100% right-on-the-mark, but more important they carefully listen to us recordists on what is great, and especially, what needs to be better for us to have the best experiences.
While no one could disagree that small hard drives have tremendous capacity for cheap, I also agree with moving on to newer very high capacity flash cards with potential for having at least as good reliability compared to hard drive, are faster, and solid state is famous for minimizing power requirements where batteries run twice as long.
Audio recorders should always remember user settings when turned off, NOT make any noise themselves, and allow lock-out of show-stopping buttons. PERIOD! Manufacturers should also allow for internal batteries to last 'reliably' for at least 4 hour minimum, OR supply well engineered/tested power accessories that extend running time to what most customers find acceptable.
So 'HELLO KORG!' What were you guys thinking when designing the next generation of portable audio recording decks you got here? Maybe a little too much of FAST DESIGN/CHEAPEST COST verses WHAT'S REALLY THE RIGHT and BEST THING for such a device?
-
I wouldn't necessarialy jump to the conclusion that korg was trying to do these on the cheap. It seems alot more to me like the first try of a company that is/was relatively inexperienced in this specific market segment (portable recorders). Maybe they focused a little too much on the whole DSD thing and forgot some basics. But hopefully this is just a jumping off point to develop some genuinly pro/prosumer level devices. And it does seem like they are listening to feedback.
-
Let's hear how the MR-1 sound!!!
I've posted a poll
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84330.0.html
-
Nice work man! +t
I'm pretty happy with my MR-1. My biggest gripe is all the unknowns but it's a smooth recorder and super easy to use.
I wonder if we could mod it to get a little higher "plug in power" voltage.
-
Just ran some conversions with the new AudioGate. The "Sharp" cutoff runs fastest and seems to be set as default, it produces a wav that looks like what I'm used to getting at 24/192 in Wavelab. The "Soft" setting runs a little faster and gives a small amount of visual (not audible) noise, still possible to do most sight editing. "Off" goes slowest on conversion and gives the ugly fat noise background as before. They all sound pretty much the same, but that is within the limits of my computer soundcard, probably not too meaningful.
With firmware 1.5 I don't see the "Filter 1" on my MR-1, or any reference to filter type, unless I go into the System menu to select filter type (as for version 1.0). But the top line of pixels of the wav sample rate selection menu is visible even when you select DSD format, though you can't scroll down unless you select wav format.
Jeff
-
On mine, the Filter 1 is across the top, but if I go into the DSD Filter mode, I can select Filter Type 1,2, or 3, but I don't think I can turn this off. What do these "Filter Types" do?
What is the difference between 1,2 and 3?
-
On mine, the Filter 1 is across the top, but if I go into the DSD Filter mode, I can select Filter Type 1,2, or 3, but I don't think I can turn this off. What do these "Filter Types" do?
What is the difference between 1,2 and 3?
yea...
what he said.
-
What is the difference between 1,2 and 3?
Manual, page 41.
Different filters on the DSD stream when playing back files. Type 1 is "standard", the other two start at higher frequencies and cut more gently, it looks. I haven't tried a listening test.
My MR-1 correctly indicated version 1.5.0 firmware, and when there was no recorded file on it there was no filter type indicator (nothing to play, duh). As soon as I recorded a DSD track, the "filter 1" designator was there to let me know how it would play back I guess.
Jeff
-
Let's hear how the MR-1 sound!!!
I've posted a poll
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84330.0.html
Just like to tell everyone that I have posted the result of the poll
-
Just got my unit in my hands yesterday!
Be running in the field for Derek Trucks @ Princeton wed night.
Tryed out this external battery and it seems to work fine plugged into the usb port.
http://www.global-batteries.com/index.php/cPath/10?gclid=COGxm9qej4wCFSgRGgodpmAbBg
I'll report back with my feedback after the show
-
Just got my unit in my hands yesterday!
Be running in the field for Derek Trucks @ Princeton wed night.
Tryed out this external battery and it seems to work fine plugged into the usb port.
http://www.global-batteries.com/index.php/cPath/10?gclid=COGxm9qej4wCFSgRGgodpmAbBg
I'll report back with my feedback after the show
That's a different brand, but it looks and specs very similar to my battery which does not work. It only appears to work. The MR-1 shows the battery charging, but it doesn't actually charge. I think it needs more umph... more amps.
-
Just got my unit in my hands yesterday!
Be running in the field for Derek Trucks @ Princeton wed night.
Tryed out this external battery and it seems to work fine plugged into the usb port.
http://www.global-batteries.com/index.php/cPath/10?gclid=COGxm9qej4wCFSgRGgodpmAbBg
I'll report back with my feedback after the show
That's a different brand, but it looks and specs very similar to my battery which does not work. It only appears to work. The MR-1 shows the battery charging, but it doesn't actually charge. I think it needs more umph... more amps.
You are right it doesn't work via usb, but it works with the 5v plug in 8)
-
You are right it doesn't work via usb, but it works with the 5v plug in 8)
Hmm. Thanks. I'll give that a try.
-
having looked at the guts, and the internal LiON, I see that it can be replaced. its a matter of finding the same size and one w/more power. its a 2700mAh LiON cell, 3.7v. I can't find any that are more capacity and the same footprint....but its an option.
-
Just got my unit in my hands yesterday!
Be running in the field for Derek Trucks @ Princeton wed night.
Tryed out this external battery and it seems to work fine plugged into the usb port.
http://www.global-batteries.com/index.php/cPath/10?gclid=COGxm9qej4wCFSgRGgodpmAbBg
I'll report back with my feedback after the show
See you there. Where are your seats?
-
having looked at the guts, and the internal LiON, I see that it can be replaced. its a matter of finding the same size and one w/more power. its a 2700mAh LiON cell, 3.7v. I can't find any that are more capacity and the same footprint....but its an option.
Do you have a photo of the MR-1 battery?
-
Yes pics please
-
I dont have software to resize installed yet (fresh re-build of my lappy).
but try these out: www.nickspicks.com/images/MR1
-
Just got my unit in my hands yesterday!
Be running in the field for Derek Trucks @ Princeton wed night.
Tryed out this external battery and it seems to work fine plugged into the usb port.
http://www.global-batteries.com/index.php/cPath/10?gclid=COGxm9qej4wCFSgRGgodpmAbBg
I'll report back with my feedback after the show
back from the show, here's what this rig sounded like
with the new MR-1, the external battery i used lasted 2 hours
still had a full charge on the korg after the 2 hour show
might need to upgrade that part
posted the encore to mediafire, give a listen
Derek Trucks Band
2007-05-23 McCarter Theatre
Princeton NJ
Had a horrible seat ..20 rows back,
far right seat under a balcony overhang
schoeps mk-41 > nbox+ > korg mr-1 ( 1bit/2.8 mhz)
audiogate 1.0.1 > 16/44 wav > xact 1.59 > flac
encore song Key To The Highway 52mb
http://www.mediafire.com/?6w8ehndyydv
-
back from the show, here's what this rig sounded like
schoeps mk-41 > nbox+ > korg mr-1 ( 1bit/2.8 mhz)
audiogate 1.0.1 > 16/44 wav > xact 1.59 > flac
Now that looks like the ultimate stealth setup I've ever seen ;D
The sample sounds very good, especially for such a horrible seat.
The levels are a bit hot, though, especially after the 7 minute mark.
Roel
-
Now that looks like the ultimate stealth setup I've ever seen ;D
The sample sounds very good, especially for such a horrible seat.
The levels are a bit hot, though, especially after the 7 minute mark.
Roel
Ran the levels almost at 0 for most of the show, but when i converted
from DFF to WAV the Audiogate software adds 3db to the converted
wav (of course i read this after the show) I'll be more conservative
next time. First impression is very good for what i do
-
The dsd to wav conversion doesn't add 3 dbs to the wav. The headroom before clip is +3 dbs for dsd, so when converting to wave (depending on close to +3dbs you run) a gain reduction of -3dbs is necessary to get the wav under the ceiling zero for pcm. The levels are fast on the MR1K (and the MR1 I would imagine) and it looks like you might be under the 0 mark but in reality it's prolly going over. That's one thing I like about the MR1K is the clip lights, kind of lets you know without minding the peak bars to much.
-
I dont have software to resize installed yet (fresh re-build of my lappy).
but try these out: www.nickspicks.com/images/MR1
Looks like you got yourself a Portico there Nick...in the background of the "void" pic.
:P
;D
-
the void pic was referring to my warranty
-
but the biggest one is the reset settings on format...that would drive me up a wall. fix this, and make it use CF cards, and I'm there, even if it's $1000.
Ok, I just confirmed with the Engineers that version 1.51 fixes the formatting reset issue - their description to us was too vague to realize this until I asked.
So... we're one step closer for you, right?
:-)
Regards,
Jerry
-
cool, thanks!
-
Jerry - what's the chances you could do a little research into the input buffers on the MR-1? We're sorta worried that 'yall used kinda cheap input buffers and really cheap output buffers. That seems pretty silly when you say it out loud considering the resolution we are capturing. Thanks for anything you can offer/come up with!
Rodney
-
but the biggest one is the reset settings on format...that would drive me up a wall. fix this, and make it use CF cards, and I'm there, even if it's $1000.
Ok, I just confirmed with the Engineers that version 1.51 fixes the formatting reset issue - their description to us was too vague to realize this until I asked.
So... we're one step closer for you, right?
:-)
Regards,
Jerry
Getting there....Care to speculate on when the CF version will be available?
or if I could just find a CF > ZIF adapter.....
Has anyone done a direct comp with the R-09 yet? Any word on DSD playback soundcards coming down the pipe?
-
yea, the guts are not pretty on these. I did post these pics, didn't I?
i'm going to take more too. http://www.nickspicks.com/images/MR1/
I guess the op amp is a JRC 2123. not a great piece...but sometimes the sum of the parts is what counts right?
in any case, it sounds awesome running line in. I have yet to really use the mic preamps yet, but I plan to start trying it out.
-
yea, the guts are not pretty on these. I did post these pics, didn't I?
i'm going to take more too. http://www.nickspicks.com/images/MR1/
I guess the op amp is a JRC 2123. not a great piece...but sometimes the sum of the parts is what counts right?
in any case, it sounds awesome running line in. I have yet to really use the mic preamps yet, but I plan to start trying it out.
In fact - even tho I'm complaining here it makes a really nice backup box. It starts up super fast and easy and saved me at the beginning of a show on Sat when we were all caught off guard. Of course I was a little tipsy and flirting at the time but that's not important >:D I stitched in the piece I messed up and you can't hear the seam unless you know where it is ahead of time, especially after sampling down to 16/44.
The sum of parts is pretty darned transparent. On the other hand, with another $5 or $15 in parts it could maybe have been my #1 recorder instead of #2.
-
I don't friggin care whats inside my MR-1
i just love it ;D Couldn't be happier after
6 shows with it. Battery life is non-issue
with external packs. I bounced it around pretty good
at one show and no skips at all.
My R-09 isn't going to get much use now.
Next week i'm going to split the signal and
run the R-09 alongside the MR-1 for a show.
Who wants to bet the MR-1 > dff > redbook
sounds better than the R-09 > 24/44.1
Can't understand why more people aren't using these?
Is it the additional software thats needed? A 2 year old could
use Audiogate it's that easy.
-
I, for one...would love to hear that comp.
On the other hand, with another $5 or $15 in parts it could maybe have been my #1 recorder instead of #2.
no shit! I dont understand designers. to cut corners, they cheap out on the most crucial *sounding* parts to make way for other things that joe consumer wants....and most of it is eye candy or uselessness.
-
Any word on DSD playback soundcards coming down the pipe?
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=17238008
-
Any word on DSD playback soundcards coming down the pipe?
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=17238008
Thrills. "The new Standalone DSD Studio Playback Product is available from directly Philips ProTech in the Netherlands for a price of 3500 Euro (excluding VAT). " That's $4725 US. This isn't "comin' down the pipe," it's jamming the pipe up our a**es.
Jeff
-
LOL
indeed.
well, you asked.
-
this rec is just awsome, love dsd and dont want decimated pcm ever again.
yes you can hear so much more, it is true.
its the best thing ive bought all year by far.
dsd now is slowly moving forward with more options. the format will bloom
its that good, well done korg.
g
-
I think I am going to get one in the next week or so.
Chris
-
Wondering if I understand this DSD audio enough to ask if DSD files can be directly used to make SACD of comparable quality to the original DSD audio?
If so, maybe SACD edit/burn software is available costing a lot less than the recently introduced 'player'? All this in the hope of having playable portable media made direct from DSD.
-
the SACD authoring software that exists (afaik) costs BIG bucks..., the kind of money a studio working w/this technology would have to plunk down.
if said software was available, it would be just like burning PCM to disc. nothing lost or gained, just playable media. I would love that to come through.
Come on' Korg!!!!!
SACD is Sony/Philips. the chances of it appearing on the consumer market (editors, authoring.etc) are slim to none, i'd guess.
the DSD protocol is a little more open...owned by Sony/Philips/and some Japaneses scientists. Perhaps the WSD protocol will be a little more of a viable option (I dont know the nuts and bolts of the difference, its the same resoution...probably the equiv. of a .bwf file vs. .wav.
Now, i may be incorrect in my info here, but this is how I understand it.
Playback options suck.
1. dither to PCM, it does sound great...but i'd rather listen to the raw DSD files as they sound better.
2. play files off the deck. MR1 sucks. still sounds great, but I know it is using inferior parts in this signal path. MR1k, no comment...but I would assume its a little better on the playback side of things.
3. Tascam DSD recorder...can't recall the model, the "1000". this can be had w/a hard drive in it and I bet it would make a wonderful "deck" for storing and playing these raw files. I dont know if its networked though..which would be VERY cool.
4. I'm sure there are sound cards out there that support DSD/WSD and any other 1bit format. But finding them...and affording them...that is the next step in my research.
-
My R-09 isn't going to get much use now.
Next week i'm going to split the signal and
run the R-09 alongside the MR-1 for a show.
Who wants to bet the MR-1 > dff > redbook
sounds better than the R-09 > 24/44.1
I'd really love to hear that comp. I'm using the R-09 now and I'm pleased with it, but I'm open to improvement while keeping the similar size and functionality.
Can't understand why more people aren't using these?
Is it the additional software thats needed? A 2 year old could
use Audiogate it's that easy.
My personal reasons: I guess the internal battery is OK, but I still prefer the AA's like in the R-09 for and all day/weekend events and for power security. Just keep an extra pair of AA's in the bag just in case.
The not so open file format is one detractor for me. The Korg only software as the only way to convert the files to open formats is another. The increased storage space of a bigger master along with additional converted 'open format' PCM versions is also an issue for me, but is least important. Ease of use of the software is not much of a concern. Playback and editing is crucial.
Positive T's to all you early adopters, I'm really intrigued by the technology and I haven't even listened to any DSD yet.
-
nor will you unless you have one of these decks.
(for all the reasons listed above).
sure you can buy SACDs, but its not the same as a concert master from your own hands.
-
nor will you unless you have one of these decks.
(for all the reasons listed above).
sure you can buy SACDs, but its not the same as a concert master from your own hands.
Ain't that the truth! Honestly, though I own some 'dual play' Redbook/SACD's I haven't listened to SACD either since I don't have a SACD capable player. But then I can't focus on playback toys or improvements until I have a functioning kitchen again. ;)
-
My MR-1 is being shipped today :) I am pretty happy about this.. A friend of mine has one brand new out of the box never used it. He is sending it to me to check out / buy from him.. So what do I need to know about this thing? battery life how is it? etc etc....
Chris
-
I power mine with a tekkeon battery as the internal is only good for about 2 hours. Maybe a little more if you turn off all the leds (another nice feature). You may as well grab the software/firmware updates from korg while you are waiting.. http://www.korg.com/service/downloads.asp?A_PROD_NO=MR1
You are also going to want a couple of balanced mini cables for the inputs..
-
I hear Hydra-Audio sells them.
;-)
in fact, I just rebuilt my personal pair, and have a nice 1m set w/cut down XLRs on the female side and RA neutrick minis.
I now build them w/a custom molded dual mini TRS plug instead of seperates. lower profile. better fit.
-
I just posted my thoughts on DSD to 16 bit in the comp that Nick & I did last week. Here is the link:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85563.0.html
-
I hear Hydra-Audio sells them.
;-)
in fact, I just rebuilt my personal pair, and have a nice 1m set w/cut down XLRs on the female side and RA neutrick minis.
I now build them w/a custom molded dual mini TRS plug instead of seperates. lower profile. better fit.
admit it, you got that idea from my r-09 jack solution. ;D
-
admit it, you got that idea from my r-09 jack solution. ;D
admit it, you got that idea from my mt jack solution ;D
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,51031.0.html
-
nope...sorry.
:)
-
My MR-1 is being shipped today :) ... So what do I need to know about this thing? battery life how is it? etc etc....
Chris
I road tested my Rode NT4>MR1 on a 2 set (2.5 hrs) Bob Dylan Revue @ Pine Inn, Sydney.
MR1 was running on a 5V external battery rated at 6.8 Watt/hr plugged into the 5V input (see http://www.global-batteries.com.au/index.php/cPath/10/sort/2a/page/1 and yes they do have US/Euro distribution)
The internal battery barely got touched.
Maybe at some point I'll grab their 14.4W version which is just as cheap and will run the MR1 well past it's 20G hard drive.
OK if you are running internal battery for anything clocking 2hrs or more you'd be a little worried.
For $30-$40 it doesn't have to be an issue any longer and for me it's certainly no deal breaker.
Cheers
George
-
I'd love to hear that George.
I'll be snagggin' the same on 7-1.
-
here's simple battery life boost... no adapter needed:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147026
seems to have between 1/4 and 1/3 the power draw of a std. HD.
If I wasn't broke I'd probably switch to an MR-1 with the 16GB version of this.
-
Cool.. I've just been looking into those SSD's.. Their capacity and price are supposed to Explode this year. Dell has some on their website but the interface wasn't standard. I had some high spl related hard drive problems recently with some studio recorder gear and was thinking something like that might help...
-
Looking at the pictures from Nick the hard drive looks as if it is exactly the same as this:
http://www.productshub.com/Hitachi-Travelstar-C4K60-HTC426020G5CE00/
which you can replace it with this:
http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478
That's about a $500 upgrade - but I'm sure the price to will drop. If it's about half the price it's worth upgrading. Having a 32GB solid state (SSD) drive in the portable recorder would be great.
I recently got a new laptop (Sony VGN-SZ330P/B) and with it there's a program (SonicStage Mastering Studio), which allows you to convert normal PCM to DSD, record music in DSD etc... It looks as if it allows you to edit DSD files, too. I should play around with it...haven't had a chance yet.
You can read more about it here:
http://club.vaio.sony.co.uk/clubvaio/GB/en/exploration/software/sonicstagems.jsp
-
db levels all back as im used to seeing on meters.
chris church your help sorting out problem was spot on .
thanks again for support
g
-
I recently got a new laptop (Sony VGN-SZ330P/B) and with it there's a program (SonicStage Mastering Studio), which allows you to convert normal PCM to DSD, record music in DSD etc... It looks as if it allows you to edit DSD files, too. I should play around with it...haven't had a chance yet.
You can read more about it here:
http://club.vaio.sony.co.uk/clubvaio/GB/en/exploration/software/sonicstagems.jsp
This looks interesting (I wonder if I can upgrade my old Sony VAIO to get this?). Does it do DSD to PCM? (And what use is PCM to DSD, can it make the PCM any better?)
Jeff
-
Recorded a very quiet show last night with the MR-1 and MK-4's
Chick Corea & Bela Fleck from about 3/4 of the way back
in the venue (Keswick Theater)
Had to bump the gain up to about +14db to get decent levels
and the results are shit, lots of hiss and noise
Wonder how i would have made out with the R-09 in this situation?
maybe i sold my 4061's>MMA6000 too soon :'(
-
This looks interesting (I wonder if I can upgrade my old Sony VAIO to get this?). Does it do DSD to PCM? (And what use is PCM to DSD, can it make the PCM any better?)
Jeff
I haven't played around with it yet..but I will check it out this weekend. From what I've read on line it only does PCM and DSD (maybe I'm wrong). If there is no option to do DSD to PCM I hope Sony will provide users with an upgrade in the future if everyone requested it. It's still new and it's their version 1. What I know is it can edit DSD files with the .dsf extension and burn it on a DVD for playback in SonicStage Mastering Studio and Windows Media Player. So I guess this is good for sending DSD files to people who don't have the Audio Gate software. Everyone can listen to your DSD track on DVD rather than listening to your DSD>redbook CDRs.
Sony actually said that converting red book to DSD sounds better (don't know if that's true). Also this program allows you to convert your old analogue tapes and LPs to DSD DVDs.
So from what I know now is that this program helps us trade or send DSD music to people with WMP in their computers - making our DSD music discs universal.
If your old sony has "Sony® Sound Reality™ - Audio Enhancer" you will be able to use this program fully.
Had to bump the gain up to about +14db to get decent levels
and the results are shit, lots of hiss and noise
Wonder how i would have made out with the R-09 in this situation?
maybe i sold my 4061's>MMA6000 too soon :'(
+14dB is high!!! When I 1st got my mr-1 I was playing around with gain settings and I realized that the higher you set your gain the worse it sounded. My worse recordings had gain as high as 15dB. Now I keep my Mr-1 gain at zero dB and adjust the levels by changing the external preamp gain - now my recordings sounds amazing.
I don't think your recording will sound that much better if you were using 4061>MMA6000 or R-09 because you were far from the stage and the music was very soft. What preamp were you using with your MR-1 and MK4? If you were sitting close with better gain settings (with a good preamp) I'm sure you would have been very pleased with your recording.
-
Had to bump the gain up to about +14db to get decent levels
and the results are shit, lots of hiss and noise
Wonder how i would have made out with the R-09 in this situation?
maybe i sold my 4061's>MMA6000 too soon :'(
+14dB is high!!! When I 1st got my mr-1 I was playing around with gain settings and I realized that the higher you set your gain the worse it sounded. My worse recordings had gain as high as 15dB. Now I keep my Mr-1 gain at zero dB and adjust the levels by changing the external preamp gain - now my recordings sounds amazing.
I don't think your recording will sound that much better if you were using 4061>MMA6000 or R-09 because you were far from the stage and the music was very soft. What preamp were you using with your MR-1 and MK4? If you were sitting close with better gain settings (with a good preamp) I'm sure you would have been very pleased with your recording.
I have the nbox+ which has a fixed 20db gain, and works great for loud shows where my settings have
been around zero db to -3.0 db. Got a free ticket at the last minute and really enjoyed the show, shame
i didn't have a closer seat. I mostly tape loud shows so this isn't going to be a problem in the future
but i'll get a chance next month to do an acoustic show, so i'll just have to get in a better position to
make a nice recording.
-
It seems then you are in a unique situation. Stepped gain really is a necessity for many of these recorders with inferior preamps. Perhaps record at 0db of added gain and see what you can add in post. You'll bring the noise floor up for sure, but you won't get additional noise from the preamps. I suspect that with DSD the noise floor won't be as bad as with 24 bit or 16bit when you do this.
Or buy a pre to go between the nbox and your recorder.... but i'd suggest the other alternative.
-
Had to bump the gain up to about +14db to get decent levels
and the results are shit, lots of hiss and noise
Wonder how i would have made out with the R-09 in this situation?
maybe i sold my 4061's>MMA6000 too soon :'(
+14dB is high!!! When I 1st got my mr-1 I was playing around with gain settings and I realized that the higher you set your gain the worse it sounded. My worse recordings had gain as high as 15dB. Now I keep my Mr-1 gain at zero dB and adjust the levels by changing the external preamp gain - now my recordings sounds amazing.
I don't think your recording will sound that much better if you were using 4061>MMA6000 or R-09 because you were far from the stage and the music was very soft. What preamp were you using with your MR-1 and MK4? If you were sitting close with better gain settings (with a good preamp) I'm sure you would have been very pleased with your recording.
I have the nbox+ which has a fixed 20db gain, and works great for loud shows where my settings have
been around zero db to -3.0 db. Got a free ticket at the last minute and really enjoyed the show, shame
i didn't have a closer seat. I mostly tape loud shows so this isn't going to be a problem in the future
but i'll get a chance next month to do an acoustic show, so i'll just have to get in a better position to
make a nice recording.
I have found with my preamp anything above +12.50 db on the Mr-1 produces a faint hiss. This is the built in preamp in the MR-1 not my preamp but I find that for most things 32.5 db is enough if you have set the sampling rate high you should be able to boost as much as 12 to 15db max with out introducing much if any noise... This is the advantage of the higher sampling rate.. I find. So with 32.5 db in record and +10 to +15 in post thats more then enough gain for most types of shows..
Chris
It all really depends on your +20 db of gain on your preamp if its got a good noise floor of say -100 or so you should be ok..
-
back of the unit - just above the FCC warnings. Mine is a sticker in the little box centered above the FCC warning, 2/3's down from the top.
-
::) yep - on the box as well.
-
just rub it in ;D
-
Is there a reason why a seller will do that? I don't really understand why someone want to remove the S# unless it was reported stolen or the S# can lead to something bad.
-
that would be my guess
-
If you record in 1-bit/2.8MHz mode with your MR-1 and would like to play back the raw .dsf files in Windows Media Player, go to this thread, http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85760.msg1169982.html#msg1169982 to download a free plugin that will let you do this.
-
fyi... The Magellan clip case (part #980795) for their handheld eXplorist GPS fits the MR-1 perfectly. They sell for $10 at Walmart or any store that carries Magellan GPS products.
I needed something better than the case that comes with the MR-1. I don't like the clear plastic on the front, and it doesn't even have a belt clip for some odd reason.
-
What is wrong with the case it came in, that one has a clear face and sides cut to match buttons for perfect use while still in the protective case.
Just curious.
-
top flap could have been cut wider for connections
g
-
The case it came with isn't ideal for stealthing. With the Magellan case, I can wear it on my belt and not even get asked about it. And it doesn't have the clear front. I used this case last night to stealth a show. I just lifted up the velcro flap, no problems with the connections. And there's enough open room on the site to plug in my external battery pack.
-
How would you check levels with out pulling it out to check?
Normally when I stealth I keep things in a pocket I have access to for level and battery checks.
-
How would you check levels with out pulling it out to check?
Normally when I stealth I keep things in a pocket I have access to for level and battery checks.
I only pulled out the MR-1 once to check it was recording and levels looked good. With so many LCD screens at concerts these days (cell phones, PDA's, digital cameras), the MR-1 doesn't really stand out. Just have to keep the cable out of sight as much as possible. I really don't have to do any fiddling with the levels on the MR-1 since I have the gain on the MR-1 always set to 0 and instead use the gain control on the MMA6000 pre. +10dB usually works ok for loud concerts.
-
The latest Keyboard Magazine has very favorable reviews of both the MR-1 and MR-1000, labelling both a "Key Buy".
http://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=30&storycode=18776
"DSD, or 1-bit, is the purest, most accurate digital recording format ever, its sound having won over many of digital audio’s harshest critics. Korg has the first recorders in the world that make this technology broadly accessible to musicians, and they sound remarkable. If all you want is to be blown away by how faithful, musical, and detailed a recording can be, stop reading and go get an MR-1 or MR-1000."
-
How are the onboard preamps in this thing? How about that little mic?
I need something very portable so I'm not interested in hooking up external preamps/mics/cables. I also need something that can record reasonably low level sounds without a painful noise floor/hiss. The Edirol seemed perfect, but the hiss was terrible...
-
where have y'all been finding the best deals on MR-1s?
pm me if you know of THE killer deal maybe?
thanks
-
How are the onboard preamps in this thing? How about that little mic?
I need something very portable so I'm not interested in hooking up external preamps/mics/cables. I also need something that can record reasonably low level sounds without a painful noise floor/hiss. The Edirol seemed perfect, but the hiss was terrible...
Fostex's FR-2LE deck tested (in Germany) to have very quiet mic preamp in at least 'balanced input mode.' This deck might be just what you're looking for. However, seems USA delivery has been delayed for several months so no user/bench test reports as far as I know.
-
the onboard mic preamps are sucky...
par for the course. the 1k is marginally better.
-
Found another new in-depth review of the MR-1...
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2007/08/02/review-korg-mr-1-hi-def-recorder.html?page=1
The article mentions that Korg is planning to sell it's own external AA battery pack for the MR-1 this fall.
"Korg says the rechargeable internal battery will last up to 2½ hours. The company plans to introduce an external AA battery pack this fall to extend operating time. According to Korg, any external battery pack with the proper voltage and connector will work"
-
battery wise, got one of these, run it ~4 hours and only used 1/2 of life: http://www.global-batteries.com/product_info.php/cPath/10/products_id/1335?osCsid=aab83b43e1d45336a6aeda462faa8b26
as found earlier in this thread...
took a week from CA to arrive, no complaints
-
I've just added a How To Guide for creating DSD Discs using Korg MR-1/MR-1000 DSD recordings in the Computer Recording Help forum..
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89333.0.html
-
I've just added a How To Guide for creating DSD Discs using Korg MR-1/MR-1000 DSD recordings in the Computer Recording Help forum..
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89333.0.html
Thanks. That's a really thorough write up. It's too bad there's no known way to burn your own SACDs with these recordings.
-
Looking at the pictures from Nick the hard drive looks as if it is exactly the same as this:
http://www.productshub.com/Hitachi-Travelstar-C4K60-HTC426020G5CE00/
which you can replace it with this:
http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478
That's about a $500 upgrade - but I'm sure the price to will drop. If it's about half the price it's worth upgrading. Having a 32GB solid state (SSD) drive in the portable recorder would be great.
Now you can get a 64GB
http://www.sandisk.com/OEM/ProductCatalog(1320)-SanDisk_SSD_UATA_5000_18.aspx
Anyone know if the above is compatible and if so is it an easy exchange? What's the difference between SATA and UATA? I guess the MR-1 can take any 1.8" SSD drive in any capacity at long as it is 1.8"?
-
...
Now you can get a 64GB
http://www.sandisk.com/OEM/ProductCatalog(1320)-SanDisk_SSD_UATA_5000_18.aspx
Anyone know if the above is compatible and if so is it an easy exchange? What's the difference between SATA and UATA? I guess the MR-1 can take any 1.8" SSD drive in any capacity at long as it is 1.8"?
I think UATA is Ultra ATA or Ultra Parallel ATA. I believe this is a different protocol from SATA or Serial ATA.
But that Travelstar drive which is reportedly the original OEM drive MR-1 is also UATA. So in theory you could just swap in one of these SanDisk UATA SSD "drives".
Let us know how it works. ;)
-
This is good news, as it should increase runtime using the internal. The 16gb & 32gb models are up on newegg. I can only wonder what the 64gb will cost :o .
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=+SSD+UATA+&x=14&y=37
Edit: I found this in a review of the 32gb:
Cons: Only one, and it could be a show-stopper to some. The 1.8" form factor package is a "fat" package: there is a bulge on the back of the unit that increases the thickness to double that of the single-platter MK2004GAL drive. This means that any device that has an inflexible opening for the original drive will NOT be able to use this SSD. The NEC Versa LitePad has just enough "play" in the disk compartment and the 50 pin connector to accept this package and still operate, although it does require some "stuffing" to keep the drive seated while moving it about.
-
I can't seem to install the Audiogate software on my new Windows Vista machine. Anyone else having this trouble?
-
I've not had any trouble with either 1.0 or the updated version 1.0.1 of AudioGate under Vista (32-bit). Korg claims 1.0.1 is slightly modified for improved compatibility under Vista.
-
Recording magazine has the MR-1 on the cover..
-
Recording magazine has the MR-1 on the cover..
Here's a screenshot on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/RECORDING-MAGAZINE-Sept-07-Korg-MR-1-MR-1000-ADK-S-7_W0QQitemZ190140897536
or
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/roadie2/RecordingMagSept07.JPG?vvid=14759263&sp=1
I am not affiliated with this auction!!!
-
A word of advice for MR-1 owners... Have a small paperclip in your pocket when out recording gigs with your MR-1. You just might need it one of these days.
I found out the hard way last night that the MR-1 firmware is randomly prone to going completely FUBAR for no apparent reason, leaving you unable to record or even shut down the unit. Turns out having a paperclip would have saved the day.
Here's what happened..
I had planned to tape a light jazz concert last night. I set up my equipment 1/2 hour before the show. Hooked up the mics, external power supply and preamp. Powered up the MR-1 and made sure everything was ok. Even started recording to make sure I was getting signals to both L and R. Everything checked out. Ready for a night of taping jazz. So I powered down and went to my seat. About 10 minutes before the opening act, I powered up the MR-1. It booted up fine. I hit the record button and NOTHING. The red recording LED didn't come on as usual. On the Level Meter screen there was an error message. Can't remember the exact message but it said something to the effect of there not being a file available. Strange, hadn't seen that before. Went into the menus. Everything was set correctly. So I decided maybe it just needed a reboot. I try to shut down the unit and get this error message "Cannot execute function" with an option to Exit. I select Exit with the P-dial. All I get is a blank screen with the backlight on. No menus, error messages, nothing. Just a blank screen. The unit is FUBAR at this point. Everytime I'd try to shut down I'd get the same "Cannot execute function" error. I waited several minutes hoping the unit might auto power down on its own. Nope. At this point getting the opening act recorded was out the window, so I waited an hour and tried again during the break before the main act. No dice. So I gave up at that point and just enjoyed the show. My big concern was that the hard drive had died. I'd have to send the unit in for repair and not be able to tape for several days. So I get home from the concert. Still unable to power down the MR-1. I noticed the tiny hole on the right side just below the volume buttons. A hard reset switch? I found a small paperclip, straightened it out and stuck it in the hole. It powered down! Powered it back up and it booted up fine. I tried recording and it worked. So I'm pretty sure the glitch was with the firmware, not the hard drive. I even hooked up the MR-1 to my PC and ran a disk check against the hard drive. No errors found. So I'm at a loss to explain how this happened. I've recorded quite a few times since I bought the MR-1 a couple months ago and never had any glitches like this until now. Fortunately last night was a jazz concert that I REALLY didn't need to tape since I'm not really into jazz that much. I'm so used to taping rock concerts that I thought I'd try recording something different for a change and see how the MR-1 does with big band instruments and piano. Now if this would have been the Smashing Pumpkins concert that I'll be taping in a couple weeks or another band I really wanted to tape, I would have been FUMING last night and just about ready to toss the MR-1 under a bus. :)
If someone from Korg is reading this, any idea what might have caused this to happen?? I've always been careful with the MR-1 knowing a hard drive is inside. I didn't drop or shake the MR-1 prior to my attempt to start recording last night, so I would rule out the hard drive especially since it now seems to be working fine and the disk error check in Windows came up with nothing. The only other thought was perhaps heat-related. It's HOT here in Phoenix, temps getting up to near 110. The MR-1 was subjected to 107 degree heat for about 15 minutes walking from the parking garage to the venue, but it was dusk, covered by my shirt and not being directly hit by the sun. Even if it had heated up during those 15 minutes, it had plenty time to cool down once I got inside. When I set up the recorder 1/2 hour before the show, it didn't seem warm at all and it was working fine at that point. It was 20 minutes later when it started acting up. I'll try to see if I can recreate the problem, but knowing Murphy's Laws, this issue probably won't crop up again until I'm ready to start taping a future show. If this is a bug in the firmware, I hope Korg can figure out the cause and get a fix out. From now on, I'm making sure I have a paperclip in one of my pockets just in case this happens again. I really hope this is not something that would crop up while the unit is in the middle of recording a show. Before I start recording, I can deal with it as long as I have a paperclip. If this happens during recording, BAD.
I'm curious, why isn't the hard power down switch mentioned in the MR-1 manual? I see it pictured in one of the diagrams, but there's no reference to it anywhere in the manual. Yes, in a perfect world no one should ever have to use that recessed switch to power down their MR-1 as the shut down slider button should do this everytime. But as I found out last night, there are still a few kinks to work out in the firmware that could keep the MR-1 from shutting down normally.
-
I've had similar strange occurances....*but...., *
this was only when the internal MR1 battery was super drained. When it is real low, it makes the deck behaive strangely, and you can't shut it down. Its almost frightning.
that is even w/an external battery plugged in !!
once the unit is fully charged again, then it runs like a top.
thats what happened to me...but YMMV
-
Both the internal and external batteries were fully charged when mine went haywire. I tried and tried to recreate it yesterday. Works like a champ now. Really weird. I was recording thunderstorms and other nature sounds when I was at the summer cabin last week. Not a single hiccup the entire week. But I get into town and it decides to do this 10 minutes before a concert. What timing! I hope the engineers at Korg can get to the bottom of it, if they haven't already, and get this fixed in the next firmware upgrade. This should be a top priority. When you hit the record button, it should start recording 99% of the time, basic operation. Unless the battery is run down or the disk space is too low. Not giving error messages and refusing to even boot down. At least I know now about the hard power down button in case this occurs again. But again, I'm concerned about something like this occuring during recording.
-
take my cash and sell me bugs
shame upon you korg,
the great dragon has been awakened and alerted of this mess.
dragon to restore order .
g
-
take my cash and sell me bugs
shame upon you korg,
the great dragon has been awakened and alerted of this mess.
dragon to restore order .
Maybe you could mention the microtrack to the dragon...
-
I sent a PM to jerrythek at Korg about the issue and included a link to my posting. Let's see what he finds out from Korg engineers. Let's hope they already know the cause and working on a fix.
-
dont get your hopes up.
one person w/a one time bug isn't going to get the wheels turning too vigorously.
-
Out of curiosity, what version firmware are you on? I've been bad about staying on top of the firmware updates.. I think I'm still on the 2nd version.
-
I'm using firmware 1.5.1., the one that came out in May. I don't think they've released a new firmware since then.
-
Ya - I'm still on 1.5.0. Doesn't really look like big changes from 1.5.0 to 1.5.1 tho.
-
Hi...I got a really nice dongle for the MR-1 so if anyone wants it let me know - picture is here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,90455.0.html
-
Quick question for you MR-1 users - is there a true, 0dB gain line-in on this unit? There's so much fuss about what setting is or is not "unity gain" on the R-09 that I'm tempted to ditch it!
-
Quick question for you MR-1 users - is there a true, 0dB gain line-in on this unit? There's so much fuss about what setting is or is not "unity gain" on the R-09 that I'm tempted to ditch it!
A recent R-09 FAQ post points to Roland service claiming #13 line setting is unity.
Since MR-1 has specific balanced input maximum rating (+9-to- +12 dBu ? can't remember for sure) specification, simply setting your preamplifier to that maximum output allows the deck to be set accordingly at ~0 dB gain. Then reading full scale deck VU suggests input gain is at or near unity, or so I would think.
Most any external preamp used, should be clearly specified for having a maximum output dBu level, and often is close to the (+9 to +12 dB ?) maximum of the MR-1 balanced input spec. If this is so, using the preamp's VU or clip overload indication to verify the deck's VU reading is same suggests having deck's near unity gain setting about right.
-
A recent R-09 FAQ post points to Roland service claiming #13 line setting is unity.
Not trying to be a wise ass, but how is this related to the Korg MR-1?
Wouldn't all recording devices be set differently for volume setting, since they would all be designed differently?
-
A recent R-09 FAQ post points to Roland service claiming #13 line setting is unity.
Not trying to be a wise ass, but how is this related to the Korg MR-1?
Wouldn't all recording devices be set differently for volume setting, since they would all be designed differently?
Yes, preamp models have different output ability, but usually not that different.
Your preamp has a MAXIMUM output (bal/unbal) specification (look this up to know); typically this is ~+9dbv depending on model.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/mr1input.gif)
MR-1 input spec is +9 dBv maximum, so if maximum preamp is near same, then preamp gain setting operating the preamp near maximum VU (or just below showing clip) output INTO (the deck's) LINE WITH MR-1 variable REC level adjustment at 10% to 60% full up setting should put you in the unity deck input operating range.
-
so, if the attached are my specs, where would I run the MR1 or the R09? (sorry for the bad scans, best I have available)
-
so, if the attached are my specs, where would I run the MR1 or the R09? (sorry for the bad scans, best I have available)
I reading your pre output specs correctly, suggest setting your preamp with output gain adjusted down ~2-3 steps below where the output clipping light shows overload (your pre spec indicates clip LED at +11 dB, 2 dB above MR-1 max input spec).
Then adjust MR-1 deck (line input) REC level for having good VU readings.
This should give optimum preamp/MR-1 settings.
R-09's setting is ~#8-#10 (likely negative gain region) if preamp is adjusted the same as used for MR-1.
If wanting R-09 at #13 (claimed line input unity setting), then your preamp's gain needs be adjusted downward by a few more steps below that being used with the MR-1, so R-09 set at #13 is getting good VU level with preamp gain adjustment steering the deck's VU levels, or so it would seem. (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/figuren/a045.gif)
-
so, if the attached are my specs, where would I run the MR1 or the R09? (sorry for the bad scans, best I have available)
I reading your pre output specs correctly, suggest setting your preamp with output gain adjusted down ~2-3 steps below where the output clipping light shows overload (your pre spec indicates clip LED at +11 dB, 2 dB above MR-1 max input spec).
Then adjust MR-1 deck (line input) REC level for having good VU readings.
This should give optimum preamp/MR-1 settings.
R-09's setting is ~#8-#10 (likely negative gain region) if preamp is adjusted the same as used for MR-1.
If wanting R-09 at #13 (claimed line input unity setting), then your preamp's gain needs be adjusted downward by a few more steps below that being used with the MR-1, so R-09 set at #13 is getting good VU level with preamp gain adjustment steering the deck's VU levels, or so it would seem.
The only problem, is that the Schoeps Pre-Amp I showed the specs has the following settings:
ON
ON +10db
ON +20db
ON +30db
That kind of screws me on the setting, no?
-
so, if the attached are my specs, where would I run the MR1 or the R09? (sorry for the bad scans, best I have available)
I reading your pre output specs correctly, suggest setting your preamp with output gain adjusted down ~2-3 steps below where the output clipping light shows overload (your pre spec indicates clip LED at +11 dB, 2 dB above MR-1 max input spec).
Then adjust MR-1 deck (line input) REC level for having good VU readings.
This should give optimum preamp/MR-1 settings.
R-09's setting is ~#8-#10 (likely negative gain region) if preamp is adjusted the same as used for MR-1.
If wanting R-09 at #13 (claimed line input unity setting), then your preamp's gain needs be adjusted downward by a few more steps below that being used with the MR-1, so R-09 set at #13 is getting good VU level with preamp gain adjustment steering the deck's VU levels, or so it would seem.
The only problem, is that the Schoeps Pre-Amp I showed the specs has the following settings:
ON
ON +10db
ON +20db
ON +30db
That kind of screws me on the setting, no?
If those are preamp gain settings, then find the setting that makes preamp's clip indicator work on loudest sounds, choosing one gain setting less as the way to go for best preamp+ headroom performance.
That is if your deck can take the resulting line level without overload, and if not, consider needing a passive attenuation pad between pre and deck input so both work in their uncompromising 'cruising' modes.
The idea is to operate the preamp on signal peaks to be within 5-12 dB of it's maximum output ability, and the deck getting near its maximum input ability on those peaks.
This is the ideal, but not ABSOLUTELY necessary to be exact, just try to get as close to the ideal as is practical.
-
Jerry says my AERCO MP-2 clips at +24dBM:
The AERCO clips at about +24 dBM which in the special case of a standard (600
Ohm) load is the same as dBv. Since the preamp can drive a 600 ohm load with
~0 loss of signal (low output impedance), the dBU (unloaded output)
is the same.
So as long as I don't go over +6dBV into the Korg, I won't have brickwalling problems, right?
-
Jerry says my AERCO MP-2 clips at +27dBM:
The AERCO clips at about +24 dBM which in the special case of a standard (600
Ohm) load is the same as dBv. Since the preamp can drive a 600 ohm load with
~0 loss of signal (low output impedance), the dBU (unloaded output)
is the same.
So as long as I don't go over +6dBV into the Korg, I won't have brickwalling problems, right?
Yes, for MR-1 balanced input, unbalanced is ~+3 dBv max.
Seems using a 15 dB pad at the preamp balanced output should protect against MR-1 overload clipping, or if not caring to run the preamp in that high voltage output 'cruise' mode, just use ~15 dB lower preamp gain so output is OK with MR-1.
Using LINE input on some decks, and running really hot signal, but turning down REC level adjust avoids slamming the deck, but since no one has sent me MR-1 for bench testing as yet, can't tell you if MR-1 can handle anything over +9 dBv input specification.
-
If those are preamp gain settings, then find the setting that makes preamp's clip indicator work on loudest sounds, choosing one gain setting less as the way to go for best preamp+ headroom performance.
No such luck, the light comes on at -4db before clipping occurs (not that I can recall the pre actually clipping... I have a few clipped recordings, but nothing that I could not blame on other hardware) :(
That is if your deck can take the resulting line level without overload, and if not, consider needing a passive attenuation pad between pre and deck input so both work in their uncompromising 'cruising' modes.
The idea is to operate the preamp on signal peaks to be within 5-12 dB of it's maximum output ability, and the deck getting near its maximum input ability on those peaks.
This is the ideal, but not ABSOLUTELY necessary to be exact, just try to get as close to the ideal as is practical.
I have the R09 and the MR1, so that is what I am trying to find out from here @ TS LOL
-
.... but since no one has sent me MR-1 for bench testing as yet, can't tell you if MR-1 can handle anything over +9 dBv input specification.
PM me and Ill get you mine!
Only catch, I will need a detailed no-geek description of where to run it with my Schoeps VMS02ib (some of the spec's I pasted above... Ill check my concert schedule to see if I can do with out it at all before 11/14, last show I have tickets for at this point this calendar year)
-
I love my iRiver, I really do. I can power it indefinitely with an alkaline external pack, and I recorded more than 25 hours of music at this summer's festival with plenty of room to spare on the 30GB drive. Still, it's only 16-bit.
...
Now you can get a 64GB
http://www.sandisk.com/OEM/ProductCatalog(1320)-SanDisk_SSD_UATA_5000_18.aspx
Anyone know if the above is compatible and if so is it an easy exchange? What's the difference between SATA and UATA? I guess the MR-1 can take any 1.8" SSD drive in any capacity at long as it is 1.8"?
I think UATA is Ultra ATA or Ultra Parallel ATA. I believe this is a different protocol from SATA or Serial ATA.
But that Travelstar drive which is reportedly the original OEM drive MR-1 is also UATA. So in theory you could just swap in one of these SanDisk UATA SSD "drives".
Let us know how it works. ;)
Can anyone who's opened one of these confirm whether the drive can be easily swapped? I know SSD would be nice, but I need 80GB to be able to record 25-30 hours at higher resolutions. Any help would be cool.
-
.... but since no one has sent me MR-1 for bench testing as yet, can't tell you if MR-1 can handle anything over +9 dBv input specification.
PM me and Ill get you mine!
Only catch, I will need a detailed no-geek description of where to run it with my Schoeps VMS02ib (some of the spec's I pasted above... Ill check my concert schedule to see if I can do with out it at all before 11/14, last show I have tickets for at this point this calendar year)
Thank you for kind loan offer. PM sent with questions and direct TEL/email contact for working out FedEX shipping schedule.
-
Has anyone had problems with a "Disk Fragmentation Error" On the MR1.. Ran the unit one night with no problems... The next night, mid show" someone pointed out the unit had stopped recording and it was displaying a disk error... restarting didn't help. I hooked it up to my laptop and the computer could see the drive but any attempt to access it caused my computer fits. (it a PC thing) Now since I can't get to the data on the MR-1 I guess I need to format it via the menu.. (and loose two shows) Any Ideas??
-
You should follow one of the many disk recovery threads and see where that gets you....
Do you delete shows off that disk or do you let them accumulate and reformat when it gets full? Just wondering because of the error.
-
My MR-1 is locked up. I ran it last night for Tea Leaf Green, all was fine. Got home hooked is up with the USB, then when I ejected it from my computer, it said "system error", now, it just says "working...."
Anyone?
-
Is there a hardware reset pinhole? I'm at work so I can't look now but I vaguely remember a blurb bout this.
-
Is there a hardware reset pinhole? I'm at work so I can't look now but I vaguely remember a blurb bout this.
There is, yes. I called Korg support and they told me to use the reset button. I reset it and not it seems fine. Sorry for the panic folks.
-
Didn't this happen to someone else recently and Korg said something like "we've never heard of a lockup"? (which is hard to believe)
-
Mine locked up and will not reset. I recorded Dylan 10-5-07 and was listening to it on the ride home. The battery was real low then the screen blanked and it has stayed that way since.
Korg said to bring it to the nearest service center and have them look at it. If I knew it was a HD failure I'd pull it apart and consider my options but I would think firmware would bring up an error message or something even without the HD working.
So I'll take it in and fall back to the JB3 for the shows I have coming up.
-
just plug it in over night.
the battery is dead. it will come back to life.
-
just plug it in over night.
the battery is dead. it will come back to life.
Been plugged in for days and still nada
Actually it is just the screen that doesn't work I can still record but I can't navigate the menu to make any changes.
-
thats weird.
mine did the same thing w/the battery was totally dead. plugged in overnight, back in action.
-
I had similar haywiredness in my Korg. One issue is the Korg seems to be particular about its voltage, and really likes "true" 5v.
When iit went haywire on me, I had it plugged into a third party 5v source (this thing http://www.tekkeon.com/site/products-mypgo-faq.php, with 4x of these http://www.stefanv.com/electronics/sanyo_eneloop.html, which are NiMH so only actually 1.2v or 4.8 v total down to 4.4 after some discharge). The charging symbol came on, but it really didn't charge much. The interesting thing is using the eternal battery, even undervoltaged, worked fine for a while, but once the voltage got low, since the Korg's battery was flatlined it started acting up. I couldn't get it to recharge using the same lashup with the Tekkeon, and couldn't get it to turn on when plugged into the Tekkeon, but it worked fine when I used the actual Korg transformer - it lit right up and charged as it should. It did take forever to charge, as usual, I htink 12 hours or more.
-
FWIW:
When mine acted up, I was using an external battery back.
-
korg was to release an ext batt for this hornet, anyone know anything ?
i would like to power m1 with with a true dedicated ext batt from korg.
only locked up once and it was not a nice feeling.
my hard drive was nearly full when it happend.
now i rec with fully empty hd reformatted day before showtime.
im still in love with the m1
has taken my rec to the next level .
run my pre hotter than normal due to the headroom available makes all the fucken difference in the universes.
g
-
regarding the ability to run the preamp HOT...
yea, I like that too.
-
How hot is hot? I usually set my MR1 to 0db gain, use line-in, and set the levels so they're hovering between -12 and -6, making sure peaks don't go above 0db. I also have a limiter on my pre (SD MixPre) that I use in case there are any sudden spikes in volume - it's rarely engaged, but is there more for a safety net.
-
0db rec level on m1 line in & pre (unity gain) peak at +1 , yes +1 no clip and punching .
i would use this setting for sweet spot , have and love it but not for nosebleed.
next will try +2db on m1 & +10 db pre gain peaking at -8.
sweet spot and back not nosebleed areas.
g
-
Hi all,
thinking on some major upgrading on my gear..
Buying a pre-amp, and upgrading my deck with a MR-1. I'm reading some issues
here about the internal battery of the MR-1. It lasts (when full charged) about
2h30m. This would most of the time be enough for me taping the kind of shows I do.
I was wondering. Is this the max. time of the internal batt. without using an
external batt.??
Would a external power-source for the mics (batt.box/pre-amp) increase the rec.time
on the MR-1??
-
depends...
if you were using the plug in power to run mics, then an outboard BB would help, but I dont know how much.
-
Are any other manufacturers going to make a 1 bit recorder like marantz, or edirol ,etc. just wondering if anyone knows if there are any others coming to market soon.
-
not that i'm aware of. but i'm sure the "industry" wont allow a single vendor to have that nitch for long.
-
not that i'm aware of. but i'm sure the "industry" wont allow a single vendor to have that nitch for long.
Based on the continued lack of dsd playback, industry couldn't care less..
-
I was thinking purely as a mastering tool.
I only know of 3 that are readily available. the Tascam rack mount unit, and our Korgs. Granted there are probably plenty of consule and DAW units that support it ??
-
Just wondering why Sony hasn't put their foot on it yet...all their new laptops can convert PCM to DSD and play DSD files (can't remember what format) using WMP (?)
Something is confusing me at the moment...What will happen if I exchange the internal HD with a SDD? Would it be a simple exchange? I was wondering if the operating system with all the menus and options are stored in the current HD or not. I know someone here must have exchange the HD in a 722/744?? Maybe it's the same sort of thing?
-
Just wondering why Sony hasn't put their foot on it yet...all their new laptops can convert PCM to DSD and play DSD files (can't remember what format) using WMP (?)
The Playstation 3 will also play these DSD files converting on the fly too 176.4 Khz 24 bit (and possibly at some point in raw DSD - we will have to see)
Something is confusing me at the moment...What will happen if I exchange the internal HD with a SDD? Would it be a simple exchange? I was wondering if the operating system with all the menus and options are stored in the current HD or not. I know someone here must have exchange the HD in a 722/744?? Maybe it's the same sort of thing?
The BIN file for the "Operating System", as KORG calls it, is exactly 2 MB in size and compresses down to 13% of orginal size in the ZIP, meaning that probably the code is much smaller then 2 MB and the extra space is zero'd out to squeeze it an a standard address range. So my guess is that the "OS" is stored entirely in a flash rom.
-
Just wondering why Sony hasn't put their foot on it yet...all their new laptops can convert PCM to DSD and play DSD files (can't remember what format) using WMP (?)
You can download and install Sony's DSD->PCM codec onto any Windows system to playback MR-1 DFF and DSD files in WMP. It doesn't support WSD format though.
-
If it is going to be converted back to PCM for playback, I guess I don't see much advantage.
The a/d in the v3 does 1 bit conversion and can output dsd or pcm. Essentialy, every v3 a/d is always converting a 1 bit stream to pcm. The v3 does it in hardware, audiogate in software.
Also wondering what it will cost to convert dsd to pcm in 10 or 20 years.
There is always the chance that dsd will take off.... but pcm is very entrenched and very good. If the movie industry wanted dsd to go with their HD/imax/etc, we'd see more products. SD would just release a new a/d board for the 7xx.
-
I guess I don't see much advantage.
listening to a couple of discs recently that were mastered on DSD but released as redbook I am hooked on the sound. It is alive and 3d in a way that PCM is not. It's not analog but it's got more texture than PCM. I really dig the sound.
what I have heard from the Korg boxes is very good. IMO though it's hard to really judge gear for our purposes unless you have it in your hands and were in the room when the tape was made. Preferably with a set of mics and a pre that you know well in a venue that you frequent. That caveat aside I like the Korg boxes.
I hadn't thought about DSD to PCM conversion in the future, that's an interesting angle...
-
If it is going to be converted back to PCM for playback, I guess I don't see much advantage.
But the nice thing about DSD is there's no disadvantage to converting to PCM. If I configure the audio on my PC to run at 96/24 it gets converted to pretty nice PCM.
The a/d in the v3 does 1 bit conversion and can output dsd or pcm. Essentialy, every v3 a/d is always converting a 1 bit stream to pcm. The v3 does it in hardware, audiogate in software.
Also wondering what it will cost to convert dsd to pcm in 10 or 20 years.
I don't think the long term archivability of DSD is much more of an issue than it was for my open reel. The format was designed for archiving. Plus my PC will still run most software written 20 years ago.
-
10 / 20 years from now dsd will be like mp3 compared to its master rival.
do believe in the impossible being possible.
and more
technology is thriving with hunger to grow, evolution
next 40 years will be amazing
g
-
"1bit"...,
now, i'm stretching the limits of my conversational knowledge of things a bit...., but as I understand it all (or almost all) DACs do 1 bit conversion in the Delta-Sigma stage of the signal conversion.
it was the idea of all that "junk" after this wasn't needed, and you could just capture that direct stream from the first stage of conversion.
and..viola.
dsd is born.
but, its a tad over my head. I read something on it once that really made sense, and I think its somewhere in the bowels of this 24pg thread.
here is some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-sigma_modulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital
-
You can download and install Sony's DSD->PCM codec onto any Windows system to playback MR-1 DFF and DSD files in WMP. It doesn't support WSD format though.
Anyone have a link for this?
-
Just wondering why Sony hasn't put their foot on it yet...all their new laptops can convert PCM to DSD and play DSD files (can't remember what format) using WMP (?)
You can download and install Sony's DSD->PCM codec onto any Windows system to playback MR-1 DFF and DSD files in WMP. It doesn't support WSD format though.
I think WMP plays 1-bit files with '.dsf' extensions.... Also I thought the conversion was PCM to DSD in their sonic program.
-
My WMP will not play my files with .dff extensions.
-
You can download and install Sony's DSD->PCM codec onto any Windows system to playback MR-1 DFF and DSD files in WMP. It doesn't support WSD format though.
Anyone have a link for this?
In this post...
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85760.msg1169982.html#msg1169982 (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85760.msg1169982.html#msg1169982)
-
Anyone run a SBD patch to the MR-1? I wonder how the input would handle that kind of a hot signal...
-
10 / 20 years from now dsd will be like mp3 compared to its master rival.
do believe in the impossible being possible.
and more
technology is thriving with hunger to grow, evolution
next 40 years will be amazing
g
then what will PCM be? :P
-
10 / 20 years from now dsd will be like mp3 compared to its master rival.
do believe in the impossible being possible.
and more
technology is thriving with hunger to grow, evolution
next 40 years will be amazing
Technology for technology's sake means nothing in the market. As vast numbers of failed startups demonstrate.
-
1bit format DA conversion is super simple compared to decoding PCM. Theoretically, it should also have less artifacts.
-
1bit format DA conversion is super simple compared to decoding PCM. Theoretically, it should also have less artifacts.
Either one can be trivial because you are simply using one of the many off the shelf chipsets. The non-trivial aspect is a great power supply and great timing.
-
And less noise in the 1bit case.
-
And less noise in the 1bit case.
How so when it all goes to PCM in the end?
-
If you have a 1bit decoder.
-
In this post...
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85760.msg1169982.html#msg1169982 (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85760.msg1169982.html#msg1169982)
Thank you for this. Now, I got it installed but it will only play at 16/44.1 and not at 24/96.
-
It seems to me there's value in having software-based DSD > PCM conversion, as it allows for different implementations of the process, some of which may sound different (better?) than others. That said, I can't justify it to myself at the moment given:
- inability to play DSD on my home stereo without using the recorder itself
- in the meantime, significantly more time/effort converting to PCM
- HUGE storage required to save the DSD master recordings until (if?) I can play back DSD easily / natively on my home stereo
Glad to see others out there exploring these options, though. Cool stuff. :)
-
I know it's stepping into a highly contentious area, but I found the following of interest. I still record at 24/96 and strive to find some improvement using DSD (both Korg machines), but I concluded I was probably fooling myself. I am ordering the September AES journal, but if this is a fair summary then the jig is up.
"Incontrovertible double-blind listening tests prove that the original 16-bit/44.1-kHz CD standard yields exactly the same two-channel sound quality as the SACD and DVD-A technologies.
In the September 2007 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society (Volume 55, Number 9), two veteran audio journalists who aren’t professional engineers, E. Brad Meyer and David R. Moran, present a breakthrough paper that contradicts all previous inputs by the engineering community. They prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, with literally hundreds of double-blind listening tests at matched levels, conducted over a period of more than a year, that the two-channel analog output of a high-end SACD/DVD-A player undergoes no audible change when passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz A/D/A processor. That means there’s no audible difference between the original CD standard (“Red Book”) and 24-bit/192-kHz PCM or 1-bit/2.8442-MHz DSD.
Please note that this is not just a disagreement with the cloud-cuckoo-land audiophiles but also with the highest engineering authorities, such as the formidable J. Robert Stuart of England’s Meridian Audio and others with similar credentials. That the Meyer-Moran tests leave no room for continued disagreements is an occasion for the most delicious Schadenfreude on the part of electronic soundalike advocates like yours truly. I stated my suspicions that SACD was no improvement over CD seven years ago, in my review of the first Sony SACD player, the SCD-1, in Issue No. 26 of The Audio Critic (downloadable from this website). I could hear no difference between the CD and SACD layers of the same disc when stopping the player and switching over, instant toggling between the two layers being impossible.
Now, Meyer and Moran are careful to point out that the new hi-rez formats generally sound better than standard CDs, but not because the processing technology is superior. The hi-rez discs are aimed at a more sophisticated market, and therefore the recording sessions and production techniques tend to be more sophisticated, more puristic, in terms of microphoning, compression, editing, etc. The use of a standard 16-bit/44.1-kHz processor as a “bottleneck” in the Meyer-Moran tests eliminated this concern. Comparing the CD and SACD layers of the same disc also eliminates it.
It should also be pointed out that more bits and a higher sampling rate in recording are still a good thing because they permit a little bit of unavoidable sloppiness, so that you can still comfortably end up with 16-bit dynamics and 20 kHz bandwidth. Meyer and Moran do not say that 14 or 15 bits in a truncated CD are just as good as 20. What they say is that spot-on 16-bit/44.1-kHz processing is as good as it gets, audibly.
Finally, let’s not confuse the Meyer-Moran tests with stereo vs. surround sound comparisons. All of the above has to do with the two channels, left and right, of stereo recordings, nothing else. The musical value of additional surround channels is something I have been wondering about lately, but that’s an altogether different subject."
See http://www.theaudiocritic.com/blog/
-
Great find! Very interesting approach.
I wonder if they compared any 'non-mastered' live material? If they just used commercial SACD/DVDA, then that would seem to be a limitation of their tests for our situation.
Or maybe their SACD/DSD player secretly converts to PCM before the analog stage :P
-
spend dollars (act of faith ) on dsd and gain access to advanced listening from self due to desire for better audio.
mind does deliver, its real because i believe my ears, they are mine , sound is stunning.
stunningness is in the ears of the beholder.
dsd a meta physical gateway into the mind.
g
-
I know it's stepping into a highly contentious area, but I found the following of interest. I still record at 24/96 and strive to find some improvement using DSD (both Korg machines), but I concluded I was probably fooling myself. I am ordering the September AES journal, but if this is a fair summary then the jig is up.
...See http://www.theaudiocritic.com/blog/
This is entirely consistent with the following AES presentation from...
http://world.std.com/~griesngr/
particularly...
http://world.std.com/~griesngr/intermod.ppt
Conclusions -
1. Adding ultrasonics to a recording technique does NOT improve time resolution of typical signals – either for imaging or precision of tempo. The presumption that it does is based on a misunderstanding of both information theory and human physiology.
2. Karou and Shogo have shown that ultrasonic harmonics of a 2kHz signal are NOT audible in the absence of external (non-human) intermodulation distortion. (BTW: means they can't be heard in the real world and that filtering them from the recording is a good thing as they can only do harm!).
3. Their experiments put a limit on the possibility that a physiological non-linearity can make ultrasonic harmonics perceptible. They find that such a non-linearity does not exist at ultrasonic sound pressure levels below 80dB.
4. All commercial recordings tested by the author as of 6/1/03 contained either no ultrasonic information, or ultrasonic harmonics at levels more than 40dB below the fundamentals.
5. Our experiments suggest that the most important source of audible intermodulation for ultrasonics is the electronics, not in the transducers.
Some consumer grade equipment makes a tacit admission of the inaudibility of frequencies above 22kHz by simply not reproducing them. Yet the advertising for these products claims the benefits of “higher resolution.”
6. Even assuming ultrasonics are audible, loudspeaker directivity creates an unusually tiny sweet spot, both horizontally and vertically.
digifish
-
This is entirely consistent with the following AES presentation from...
http://world.std.com/~griesngr/
particularly...
http://world.std.com/~griesngr/intermod.ppt
...digifish
^^^^
David Griesinger's page is a great resource. I was just browsing it yesterday and thinking about posting a general link at TS somewhere (possibly the Audio Reference thread if it's not already there. Some content is rather technical, some is quite straightforward and appicable to our applications.
OT but this is great applied M/S info: Griesinger's Coincident Microphone Primer (http://world.std.com/~griesngr/primer.doc)
Thanks for the discussion guys.
-
There's all kinds of 1 bit decoders out there. The only thing that's vaporware is the authoring software to get us on the disc. Maybe it will come along, maybe not.
-
There's all kinds of 1 bit decoders out there. The only thing that's vaporware is the authoring software to get us on the disc. Maybe it will come along, maybe not.
http://www.sonicstudio.com/products/dsd/sacdc.html (http://www.sonicstudio.com/products/dsd/sacdc.html)
I'm thinking about buying this and offering a low priced DSD>SACD conversion service. I don't think it would take too long to pay for the approx. $5,000 investment.
-
I'm thinking about buying this and offering a low priced DSD>SACD conversion service.
If a bunch of killer shows were *only* seeded in DSD, that application might become a whole lot more "popular" soon after.
-
I'm thinking about buying this and offering a low priced DSD>SACD conversion service.
If a bunch of killer shows were *only* seeded in DSD, that application might become a whole lot more "popular" soon after.
with do not convert to pcm warnings?
edit: I was thinking more for those of us who master in and greatly prefer dsd but are looking for ease of playback. I would probably only do it with my favorite recordings if I didn't own the program.
-
There's all kinds of 1 bit decoders out there. The only thing that's vaporware is the authoring software to get us on the disc. Maybe it will come along, maybe not.
http://www.sonicstudio.com/products/dsd/sacdc.html (http://www.sonicstudio.com/products/dsd/sacdc.html)
I'm thinking about buying this and offering a low priced DSD>SACD conversion service. I don't think it would take too long to pay for the approx. $5,000 investment.
does that include the cost of the tape drive ?
-
Some rivetting reading in the links recently posted here - very many thanks!!
-
we've reached our limit here.
time for part two
-
Hi, I just obtained the same external batteries everyone has for MR-1 and want to know proper way to hook up... Seems best to take USB out if battery into a DC5V plug and into the Korg MR-1... Is this correct? Please let me hear from you great people... The first time I hooked it up this way I got a fatal error and now I can't get rid of it. Can't even turn the deck off. Please help !!! Peace, Joe Ray
-
OK, now I'm curious and seriously looking for MR-1 deck loan to do an MR-1 technical review.
One of you guys may have a spare from double ordering, and everyone seems to agree somebody needs to do the gain, noise and frequency graphs on this puppy so we all like to know what is going on with the analog inputs.
I'll pay FedEx shipping both ways.
Already reviewed MT2496 and R-09 at:
www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm)
www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm)
With much thanks for nearly a month MR-1 deck loan from TS member gmm6797 the Technical MR-1 Review 'rough cut' edition is ready for first viewing. Not everything and all links on the page are correct as yet, but hope to get most of this done next day or two.
MR-1 TECH REVIEW AT: www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm)
What you should find most interesting is full disclosure of MR-1 input gain settings in chart form, how MR-1 gain set works, MIC/LINE input signal limits, and noise plots with/without external preamplifiers.
Corrections and suggestions welcome.
-
That looks pretty cool to me... interesting to see a lot of right channel issues... I wonder how this can be presented to Korg for corrections.
I have no idea how to read the graphics, so I will leave those comments to people who can speak logically about them!
-
Revised MR-1 review version now 4 posted and likely review is nearly finished. :alert:
Found version 3 too technically obscure to be mostly unreadable (very sorry about that). :crazy:
:hmmm: So maybe time to give this a read to see if understandable, and now no need to be kind about feedback/suggestions. :flack:
:wink2: www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mr-1revw.htm) :yahoo:
-
Pt II: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,93710.0.html