Topic: CA-14 mic in or line in?

[am]

I'm taping a very loud orchestral concert and was was wondering  if I should plug my CA-14 omnis with battery box into the mic in or the line in on the Sony D50 and with the 20db attentuation on?  I also have the CA-14 cards and I;M unsure if they would be better given the loud music. I will be sitting above 30 rows back from front of stage.
 
I'm a newbie taping shealth for the first time.

Thanks!

[Belexes]

If you are in "the sweet spot" in the venue and there will be limited audience participation (talking, clapping) I'd opt for the omnis.  Poor location with a noisy crowd, cards.

You said it'll be a loud show, so line-in may be all you need but if you are not getting enough gain switch to mic-in between songs.

[am]

Thank you!

[acidjack]

You did say "loud orchestral show" - if you mean an orchestra that will likely be loud, I'd suspect you still want to use mic-in with -20dB pad on.

If the show is actually amplified - the music will be blaring from a PA system as opposed to the natural sound of the orchestra - then line-in is probably best.

[Belexes]

Doesn't the -20dB only work for mic in and not line in?

The CA mics are not that sensitive (which is good, IMHO), so I'd record without it.

[sunjan]

I really don't see the need for attenuation here.
Like acidjack said: if it's a rock show with stacks, go line in.

[Church-Audio]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

[F.O.Bean]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

Really? I thought w/ both a BB and a pre, you would run line-in Or is that just for a preamp

[Church-Audio]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

Really? I thought w/ both a BB and a pre, you would run line-in Or is that just for a preamp

Because my preamps are very low self noise if you get to a situation where you need more gain and you need lots of gain you can get half from my preamp and the other half from the mic preamp. AGAIN only in situations where you are recording something very quiet. If you have no preamp and you want to use the mic input you MUST use a battery box at the very least. Again though due to the high sensitivity of the mic input overload could occur so only use it when you need lots of gain and not in a loud show. I am thinking Bluegrass outdoors or small jazz club type settings. NOT loud concerts. If you have any of my preamps there is absolutely no advantage to using a battery box + my preamp. Unless its to power phantom powered mics. But that will soon not be an issue as we are coming out with our first phantom powered preamp FINALLY this year. It will be very VERY small. Much smaller than anything you can get right now and thats all I want to say about that

[aleal5687]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

Really? I thought w/ both a BB and a pre, you would run line-in Or is that just for a preamp

Because my preamps are very low self noise if you get to a situation where you need more gain and you need lots of gain you can get half from my preamp and the other half from the mic preamp. AGAIN only in situations where you are recording something very quiet. If you have no preamp and you want to use the mic input you MUST use a battery box at the very least. Again though due to the high sensitivity of the mic input overload could occur so only use it when you need lots of gain and not in a loud show. I am thinking Bluegrass outdoors or small jazz club type settings. NOT loud concerts. If you have any of my preamps there is absolutely no advantage to using a battery box + my preamp. Unless its to power phantom powered micBut that will soon not be an issue as we are coming out with our first phantom powered preamp FINALLY this year. It will be very VERY small. Much smaller than anything you can get right now and thats all I want to say about that

Chris
Any update on your phantom power preamp?

[F.O.Bean]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

Really? I thought w/ both a BB and a pre, you would run line-in Or is that just for a preamp

Because my preamps are very low self noise if you get to a situation where you need more gain and you need lots of gain you can get half from my preamp and the other half from the mic preamp. AGAIN only in situations where you are recording something very quiet. If you have no preamp and you want to use the mic input you MUST use a battery box at the very least. Again though due to the high sensitivity of the mic input overload could occur so only use it when you need lots of gain and not in a loud show. I am thinking Bluegrass outdoors or small jazz club type settings. NOT loud concerts. If you have any of my preamps there is absolutely no advantage to using a battery box + my preamp. Unless its to power phantom powered mics. But that will soon not be an issue as we are coming out with our first phantom powered preamp FINALLY this year. It will be very VERY small. Much smaller than anything you can get right now and thats all I want to say about that

Since acquiring my CA14's and an SP 9v BB, I have had to run mic-in every time, even FOB/DFC at MoeDown So Id imagine since now I have a CA9100 I can run Line-In and boost levels with the 9100

[Church-Audio]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

Really? I thought w/ both a BB and a pre, you would run line-in Or is that just for a preamp

Because my preamps are very low self noise if you get to a situation where you need more gain and you need lots of gain you can get half from my preamp and the other half from the mic preamp. AGAIN only in situations where you are recording something very quiet. If you have no preamp and you want to use the mic input you MUST use a battery box at the very least. Again though due to the high sensitivity of the mic input overload could occur so only use it when you need lots of gain and not in a loud show. I am thinking Bluegrass outdoors or small jazz club type settings. NOT loud concerts. If you have any of my preamps there is absolutely no advantage to using a battery box + my preamp. Unless its to power phantom powered micBut that will soon not be an issue as we are coming out with our first phantom powered preamp FINALLY this year. It will be very VERY small. Much smaller than anything you can get right now and thats all I want to say about that

Chris
Any update on your phantom power preamp?

Yep I am still working on it and it will come out when its ready. I am not going to build a preamp and have to do a million updates to it. When this comes out it will make some heads turn. But again I am not going to rush things.

[F.O.Bean]

Mic in with a battery box. No pad on the input.

Really? I thought w/ both a BB and a pre, you would run line-in Or is that just for a preamp

Because my preamps are very low self noise if you get to a situation where you need more gain and you need lots of gain you can get half from my preamp and the other half from the mic preamp. AGAIN only in situations where you are recording something very quiet. If you have no preamp and you want to use the mic input you MUST use a battery box at the very least. Again though due to the high sensitivity of the mic input overload could occur so only use it when you need lots of gain and not in a loud show. I am thinking Bluegrass outdoors or small jazz club type settings. NOT loud concerts. If you have any of my preamps there is absolutely no advantage to using a battery box + my preamp. Unless its to power phantom powered micBut that will soon not be an issue as we are coming out with our first phantom powered preamp FINALLY this year. It will be very VERY small. Much smaller than anything you can get right now and thats all I want to say about that

Chris
Any update on your phantom power preamp?

Yep I am still working on it and it will come out when its ready. I am not going to build a preamp and have to do a million updates to it. When this comes out it will make some heads turn. But again I am not going to rush things.

Will you make a Schoeps based preamp that I can use w/ my KCY Cable

[cunger]

Ok, now I'm confused! I bought the CA-14 and 9100 preamp last year. I've been loving it ever since. Records perfectly everytime! EXCEPT. The past two shows I've been having problems. The first was Bela Fleck at the Keswick. The recording sounds OK, but at some point, even though the levels didn't peak, the sound sounds like it did. I've been typically going from CA-14 (cards) > 9100 > Tascam Dr-07 Mic in.
Same thing happened to The Machine on 12/3 in Reading, using the same setup.
As for the levels, on the 9100, I typically turn the dial to approx halfway, and the levels on the DR-07 were set to less than 4.

I'm thinking there's something that got set in the DR-07, I'm going to try to reset back to factory defaults and see what happens next time around. Never had any problems with this setup for quite a while. Also, I haven't changed batteries on the 9100 for a while, but I would think the problem there would be having to constantly raise the levels on the 9100 or DR-07???

Thanks.

Links to the above referenced recordings:
Bela Fleck: http://www.archive.org/details/bfft2011-11-17.ca-14
The Machine: http://www.archive.org/details/tm2011-12-03

[Belexes]

^Battery issue. Put a fresh 9v in and that may solve it.

Also, I'd encourage you to run line in on the deck versus mic in.  You have a pre and should be using all the gain you can from it.

[F.O.Bean]

WShen I ran CA4>9100/SP B I ALWAYS an MIC-IN. Try a fresh 9v battery

[cunger]

Thanks guys, I put a new 9v battery in and worked this time! For sanity's sake, I also reset my DR-07 back to factory defaults, just in case.

I just purchased a set of nak300s. No preamp at this time, the batteries are a bit weak, just ordered new ones. I'm thinking of connecting the nak300 > ca-9100 >dr-07. Seems to have resolved the low volume problem, but generally, if there's a preamp involved, should the jack that I use be the line in?

Thanks again!

[Church-Audio]

Thanks guys, I put a new 9v battery in and worked this time! For sanity's sake, I also reset my DR-07 back to factory defaults, just in case.

I just purchased a set of nak300s. No preamp at this time, the batteries are a bit weak, just ordered new ones. I'm thinking of connecting the nak300 > ca-9100 >dr-07. Seems to have resolved the low volume problem, but generally, if there's a preamp involved, should the jack that I use be the line in?

Thanks again!

The ca-14 mics you have will smoke the naks. But if you want to run naks you need to do a franken nak mod to these. Get rid of the batteries in the mics.

[cunger]

Yeah, Chris C, I actually found that out. I recorded that same show with nak300 and ca-14, both sound great, and to be honest, to my ears, they both sound good. The ca-14 sound better in my mind, because the levels were higher and didn't need to be amplified in audacity, but of course the ca-14 are newer, and might be better technically.

It's just funny to run ca-14, mixed with other tapers running the various mics out there. The ca-14 looks pathetic because of their size, but the audio it captures is outstanding. I've got a lot of good feedback from bands saying my recordings are the best they heard. I'm glad, cause I'm still new, and haven't been able to get out much until recently.

I run a 13' pole, and built a custom device to attach the mics to, and the mics are only a small fraction of the size, funny as hell.

[adrianf74]

Yeah, Chris C, I actually found that out. I recorded that same show with nak300 and ca-14, both sound great, and to be honest, to my ears, they both sound good. The ca-14 sound better in my mind, because the levels were higher and didn't need to be amplified in audacity, but of course the ca-14 are newer, and might be better technically.

It's just funny to run ca-14, mixed with other tapers running the various mics out there. The ca-14 looks pathetic because of their size, but the audio it captures is outstanding. I've got a lot of good feedback from bands saying my recordings are the best they heard. I'm glad, cause I'm still new, and haven't been able to get out much until recently.

I run a 13' pole, and built a custom device to attach the mics to, and the mics are only a small fraction of the size, funny as hell.

The CA-14's (both the omnis and cards) are excellent little mics for the price paid.  Even though I now run DPA 4061's for my omnis, I only run the DPA's because I got them for a great price.   I've always said that if I had to pay $400-$500 for my DPA's, I'd stick with the CA-14 omnis because the recordings are not improved 5x as much.

Switching to the cards: There is little out there (if nothing) in the sub $400 range that is better than the CA-14 omnis.   I've run my CA-14's recently against C1000's and 480's and, yes, those mics do sound better but with a little tweaking, the CA-14's can be impressive.   Again, the C1000's and 480's are much more expensive (and larger for that matter) so we're talking apples and oranges.  I still have my CA-14 cards and run them frequently because there's nothing out there in size and price that comes close.

[Church-Audio]

Yeah, Chris C, I actually found that out. I recorded that same show with nak300 and ca-14, both sound great, and to be honest, to my ears, they both sound good. The ca-14 sound better in my mind, because the levels were higher and didn't need to be amplified in audacity, but of course the ca-14 are newer, and might be better technically.

It's just funny to run ca-14, mixed with other tapers running the various mics out there. The ca-14 looks pathetic because of their size, but the audio it captures is outstanding. I've got a lot of good feedback from bands saying my recordings are the best they heard. I'm glad, cause I'm still new, and haven't been able to get out much until recently.

I run a 13' pole, and built a custom device to attach the mics to, and the mics are only a small fraction of the size, funny as hell.

The CA-14's (both the omnis and cards) are excellent little mics for the price paid.  Even though I now run DPA 4061's for my omnis, I only run the DPA's because I got them for a great price.   I've always said that if I had to pay $400-$500 for my DPA's, I'd stick with the CA-14 omnis because the recordings are not improved 5x as much.

Switching to the cards: There is little out there (if nothing) in the sub $400 range that is better than the CA-14 omnis.   I've run my CA-14's recently against C1000's and 480's and, yes, those mics do sound better but with a little tweaking, the CA-14's can be impressive.   Again, the C1000's and 480's are much more expensive (and larger for that matter) so we're talking apples and oranges.  I still have my CA-14 cards and run them frequently because there's nothing out there in size and price that comes close.

Thanks man your free preamps and mics are in the mail lol I do really appreciate the kind words. Hope you have a great Xmas!

[adrianf74]

Yeah, Chris C, I actually found that out. I recorded that same show with nak300 and ca-14, both sound great, and to be honest, to my ears, they both sound good. The ca-14 sound better in my mind, because the levels were higher and didn't need to be amplified in audacity, but of course the ca-14 are newer, and might be better technically.

It's just funny to run ca-14, mixed with other tapers running the various mics out there. The ca-14 looks pathetic because of their size, but the audio it captures is outstanding. I've got a lot of good feedback from bands saying my recordings are the best they heard. I'm glad, cause I'm still new, and haven't been able to get out much until recently.

I run a 13' pole, and built a custom device to attach the mics to, and the mics are only a small fraction of the size, funny as hell.

The CA-14's (both the omnis and cards) are excellent little mics for the price paid.  Even though I now run DPA 4061's for my omnis, I only run the DPA's because I got them for a great price.   I've always said that if I had to pay $400-$500 for my DPA's, I'd stick with the CA-14 omnis because the recordings are not improved 5x as much.

Switching to the cards: There is little out there (if nothing) in the sub $400 range that is better than the CA-14 omnis.   I've run my CA-14's recently against C1000's and 480's and, yes, those mics do sound better but with a little tweaking, the CA-14's can be impressive.   Again, the C1000's and 480's are much more expensive (and larger for that matter) so we're talking apples and oranges.  I still have my CA-14 cards and run them frequently because there's nothing out there in size and price that comes close.

Thanks man your free preamps and mics are in the mail lol I do really appreciate the kind words. Hope you have a great Xmas!

LMAO.  I don't think those were free but I'll gladly take another set.     

I've always thought your gear can't be beat for the price/value.  Merry Xmas as well.

[F.O.Bean]

I agree. My mk41>Sax vs. my CA14>9100 sounded AMAZING compared to my MK41>Sax setup. There was DEFINITELY not a $4k difference in price soundwise

[newplanet7]

  I've run my CA-14's recently against C1000's and 480's and, yes, those mics do sound better but with a little tweaking, the CA-14's can be impressive.   Again, the C1000's and 480's are much more expensive (and larger for that matter) so we're talking apples and oranges.

c1000s are horrible and without even hearing a head to head my money would be on the CA.
the c1000's generally go for $150-$200 each new with two patterns and that's $125 too much IMO.

[cunger]

Yeah, Chris C, I actually found that out. I recorded that same show with nak300 and ca-14, both sound great, and to be honest, to my ears, they both sound good. The ca-14 sound better in my mind, because the levels were higher and didn't need to be amplified in audacity, but of course the ca-14 are newer, and might be better technically.

It's just funny to run ca-14, mixed with other tapers running the various mics out there. The ca-14 looks pathetic because of their size, but the audio it captures is outstanding. I've got a lot of good feedback from bands saying my recordings are the best they heard. I'm glad, cause I'm still new, and haven't been able to get out much until recently.

I run a 13' pole, and built a custom device to attach the mics to, and the mics are only a small fraction of the size, funny as hell.

The CA-14's (both the omnis and cards) are excellent little mics for the price paid.  Even though I now run DPA 4061's for my omnis, I only run the DPA's because I got them for a great price.   I've always said that if I had to pay $400-$500 for my DPA's, I'd stick with the CA-14 omnis because the recordings are not improved 5x as much.

Switching to the cards: There is little out there (if nothing) in the sub $400 range that is better than the CA-14 omnis.   I've run my CA-14's recently against C1000's and 480's and, yes, those mics do sound better but with a little tweaking, the CA-14's can be impressive.   Again, the C1000's and 480's are much more expensive (and larger for that matter) so we're talking apples and oranges.  I still have my CA-14 cards and run them frequently because there's nothing out there in size and price that comes close.

Thanks man your free preamps and mics are in the mail lol I do really appreciate the kind words. Hope you have a great Xmas!

Woohoo! Free stuff!
One more question, although I think I can find the answer somewhere in the forums. Chris C, you mention to run the CA-14 > ST9100 > Tascam line in. Why? Can someone explain to me the difference between the mic input and the line in input?

I thought the mic input was to be used for mics, and the line in was to be used when patching into someone else?

Thanks.

[adrianf74]

One more question, although I think I can find the answer somewhere in the forums. Chris C, you mention to run the CA-14 > ST9100 > Tascam line in. Why? Can someone explain to me the difference between the mic input and the line in input?

I thought the mic input was to be used for mics, and the line in was to be used when patching into someone else?

This topic (along with many others) should be answered in a FAQ and have a sticky attached to it as it's been answered to death.

The short version is: IT DEPENDS.   It used to be that any preamp/battery box was meant to run the mics to the deck via line in but this has changed in the past few years with products such as the CA preamp and Jon's TinyBox.   With the way both products are designed, they can be used in line not only with your mics but as an attenuator as well if you're taking the output of hot soundboard via line into your recorder. 

If you're recording an amplied show (folk music, acoustic, etc.) and you're further back, you should be able to get away with using the preamp and mic input on your recorder.  I've done this one time where I was running a mic stand at a soundboard during a festival show and couldn't get good enough levels the "other way."

The general rule is that for anything amplied (rock, pop, and ESPECIALLY death metal), you'll want to run mics > preamp/battery box > LINE IN to avoid distorting the hell out of your capture.   Myself, 99% of the time, I run line in (as do many others here).    Run your recorder at unity gain and then adjust your preamp accordingly. 

[acidjack]

c1000s are horrible and without even hearing a head to head my money would be on the CA.
the c1000's generally go for $150-$200 each new with two patterns and that's $125 too much IMO.

Seriously.  It's hard for me to think of something that sounds worse than those dogs.  Atrocious mics whether they say "AKG" on them or not (at least for taping).  CA-14s, AT853s, etc. all smoke them.

[Church-Audio]

Yeah, Chris C, I actually found that out. I recorded that same show with nak300 and ca-14, both sound great, and to be honest, to my ears, they both sound good. The ca-14 sound better in my mind, because the levels were higher and didn't need to be amplified in audacity, but of course the ca-14 are newer, and might be better technically.

It's just funny to run ca-14, mixed with other tapers running the various mics out there. The ca-14 looks pathetic because of their size, but the audio it captures is outstanding. I've got a lot of good feedback from bands saying my recordings are the best they heard. I'm glad, cause I'm still new, and haven't been able to get out much until recently.

I run a 13' pole, and built a custom device to attach the mics to, and the mics are only a small fraction of the size, funny as hell.

The CA-14's (both the omnis and cards) are excellent little mics for the price paid.  Even though I now run DPA 4061's for my omnis, I only run the DPA's because I got them for a great price.   I've always said that if I had to pay $400-$500 for my DPA's, I'd stick with the CA-14 omnis because the recordings are not improved 5x as much.

Switching to the cards: There is little out there (if nothing) in the sub $400 range that is better than the CA-14 omnis.   I've run my CA-14's recently against C1000's and 480's and, yes, those mics do sound better but with a little tweaking, the CA-14's can be impressive.   Again, the C1000's and 480's are much more expensive (and larger for that matter) so we're talking apples and oranges.  I still have my CA-14 cards and run them frequently because there's nothing out there in size and price that comes close.

Thanks man your free preamps and mics are in the mail lol I do really appreciate the kind words. Hope you have a great Xmas!

Woohoo! Free stuff!
One more question, although I think I can find the answer somewhere in the forums. Chris C, you mention to run the CA-14 > ST9100 > Tascam line in. Why? Can someone explain to me the difference between the mic input and the line in input?

I thought the mic input was to be used for mics, and the line in was to be used when patching into someone else?

Thanks.

line in for loud sources.
mic in for quiet sources.
definition of loud and quiet comes from experimentation and experience on your gear that you can gain only by doing.
Also use the search function here that will help you find many answers to these and many other question you will have.

[adrianf74]

tinybox does not attenuate.

Sorry Jon... I don't know what I was thinking; I've fixed my post.