Topic: Sound Devices or Glensound?

[Scoldoug]

I'm looking for a mic preamp with phantom power to use with a Rode NTG-1.

Based on the specifications alone, which of the following two would you recommend?
And, can you explain to this novice why you'd pick one over the other?

Glensound GS-MCA001

Sound Devices MP-1

[boojum]

Assuming that they are both very good, the SD can be fixed in Wisconsin should it break.

[yug du nord]

Assuming that they are both very good, the SD can be fixed in Wisconsin should it break.

That's my opinion too....  Sound Devices is US based and a proven company that builds quality gear.  I personally know nothing of Glensound so I can't comment on that....  but it might be a great unit??   

[John Willett]

Assuming that they are both very good, the SD can be fixed in Wisconsin should it break.

That's no help if you are in Europe.

Actually, both are good units and are both popular with sound recordists.

Choose the one that does what you want best with the ergonomics you prefer.

[datbrad]

For the past 5 years I have used a pair of MP-1s, the very first Sound Devices product they ever made, and I love the sound. Exceptionally clean, quiet, with seemingly limitless headroom, yet warm and sweet sounding due to having transformers at both ends.

Looking at the specs, seems the biggest differences are:

Sound Devices MP-1 has a Lundahl input transformer, and a custom SD output transformer.

Glensound only has a transformer on the output, so that should make it sound a tad more transparent than the MP-1, but also not as warm sounding.

Sound Devices has dual optical limiters, where both the input and the output is protected.

Glensound only has an output limiter, which will prevent clipping the preamp at the output, but offers no protection against input overload.

Sound Devices MP-1 uses 2 AA batteries in a military style tube that is very easy to pop the batts in and out of, and it will run for over 5 hours with 48v phantom when using NiMh rechargables.

Glensound uses a 9v transistor battery, which are more expensive. Did not see how the battery installs, but hopefully it's not like some preamps that use 9v where you have to open the case with screws to get to the battery compartment.

Otherwise, either brand would probably be an acceptable option for a single channel preamp to run with a Rode mic.

[boojum]

Assuming that they are both very good, the SD can be fixed in Wisconsin should it break.

That's no help if you are in Europe.

Actually, both are good units and are both popular with sound recordists.

Choose the one that does what you want best with the ergonomics you prefer.

He is in New Jersey which is why I suggested the "repair locally" as a good reason, assuming they are equal in quality.  Had there not been the "New" in the location the Glensound would be better, for repair purposes.  From the short description of the internals it looks like SD wins on that, too.

[datmike]

My MP-2 is Rock Solid.

[yug du nord]

My MP-2 is Rock Solid.

MixPre also.

[kirk97132]

Hey I love the MP-2 but why not look into a Little Box?  Has been compared to the Lunatec  for sound quality and can be ordered with custom features to suit your needs AND is less money than either of the pre's you are looking at.  If had my eye on one for awhile just need some money now.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=128321.45

http://www.naiant.com/studiostore.html

[sparkey]

I had a mp2 which I miss and now own a 722 which I am very happy with.  Stellar customer service on the occasions I've contacted them.  The Littlebox gets great reviews, tho....

Josh

My MP-2 is Rock Solid.

[yug du nord]

Hey I love the MP-2 but why not look into a Little Box?  Has been compared to the Lunatec  for sound quality and can be ordered with custom features to suit your needs AND is less money than either of the pre's you are looking at.  If had my eye on one for awhile just need some money now.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=128321.45

http://www.naiant.com/studiostore.html

Good call on the Littlebox option!  People are diggin it from what I gather.....

[DSatz]

> Glensound only has a transformer on the output, so that should make it sound a tad more transparent than the MP-1, but also not as warm sounding.

I would like as politely as possible to question that assumption. I know this is hard for some people to accept, but good audio transformers in appropriate circuits can be sonically transparent when they aren't being overdriven. That is, a human listener could not tell whether they were in a circuit or not, when listening to any actual program material through them (or test tones, for that matter).

But when transformers aren't sonically transparent--for whatever the reason may be, including that the circuit designer may have chosen their characteristics for a certain sonic effect--then their sonic effect can be to contribute "warmth" or it can equally well be a range of other possibilities.

If a person is just browsing spec sheets and not actually testing the specific preamps, either by listening for their sound quality or even measuring their performance with sine waves on a test bench, then no reliable predictions can be made at all about the likely sonic effect of either having a transformer or of not having one.

Again, my apologies to anyone whose views on this subject are incorrect <g>.

[yug du nord]

> Glensound only has a transformer on the output, so that should make it sound a tad more transparent than the MP-1, but also not as warm sounding.

I would like as politely as possible to question that assumption. I know this is hard for some people to accept, but good audio transformers in appropriate circuits can be sonically transparent when they aren't being overdriven. That is, a human listener could not tell whether they were in a circuit or not, when listening to any actual program material through them (or test tones, for that matter).

But when transformers aren't sonically transparent--for whatever the reason may be, including that the circuit designer may have chosen their characteristics for a certain sonic effect--then their sonic effect can be to contribute "warmth" or it can equally well be a range of other possibilities.

If a person is just browsing spec sheets and not actually testing the specific preamps, either by listening for their sound quality or even measuring their performance with sine waves on a test bench, then no reliable predictions can be made at all about the likely sonic effect of either having a transformer or of not having one.

Again, my apologies to anyone whose views on this subject are incorrect <g>.

Oh master Satz......  can you give any input on what the results might be if say a pair of transformer based LD mics (Busman BA-L2) are put in front of a transformer based preamp (MixPre)? 

Could they compliment each other?  Or could it add excessive low end?  I have both to play with...  but haven't had the chance yet.  Thanks man....  always a pleasure!

[DSatz]

uncleyug, what I'm saying is that there's just no way to draw any credible conclusions about sound quality simply from knowing that a microphone has (or doesn't have) an output transformer, and/or that a preamp has (or doesn't have) an input transformer.

Transformers don't necessarily have any effect on the sound of a microphone or preamp at all. Nor does the absence of a transformer necessarily have any effect on the sound of a microphone or preamp at all.

As Sigmund Freud once said, "Sometimes a transformer is just a way to optimize the impedance relationship between two components while rejecting noise from interference and preventing ground loops."

--best regards

[DSatz]

ms, the thing is that when a transformer saturates (either because it is "too small" or the signals are too large for it--you can look at the problem either way) (and "too small" is a simplification, as you know--but as a first approximation it'll have to do for now), let's not confuse cause with effect.

Yes, saturation is far more likely to occur with strong low-frequency signals--the distortion curves bend radically upward at the low end, which is part of why all "vintage" microphones (back when the inputs of all studio mixing desks always had input transformers) had filters at 40 Hz or so, some sharper than others.

But when saturation takes hold, the effect is not that the low frequencies are attenuated--instead, the entire signal, from top to bottom, becomes wildly distorted. The waveform all becomes One Big Ball o' Fuzz™. An apt term that people used to use was that the transformer "blocks" the signal when it saturates. It's like being choked.

If you send single-frequency sine waves (yes, I know that's redundant, and also says the same thing twice) through a transformer that's too "small," at very low frequencies you'll find a narrow range of levels at which the output is a distorted copy of the input, where the distortion is still listenable, and possibly even attractive for some purposes. But that's only with single-frequency signals, and only within a very narrow range of pitch or dynamics. If you go lower in frequency (= pitch) or higher in level, or add other tones, the amount of distortion increases very rapidly and the character changes drastically. Soon it's no longer musically interesting, except perhaps as a symbol of chaos and destruction. Which can be cool, too, except that it all tends to sound more or less alike.

A lot of the misunderstandings that people seem to have about tubes and transformers in audio come from the experience of guitar and bass players with tube amps. The presumption that transformer distortion will warm up the low-frequency character of a full-spectrum signal (as contrasted with the mostly single notes that bass players usually play) seesm to be one of those misunderstandings.

--best regards

[datbrad]

> Glensound only has a transformer on the output, so that should make it sound a tad more transparent than the MP-1, but also not as warm sounding.

I would like as politely as possible to question that assumption. I know this is hard for some people to accept, but good audio transformers in appropriate circuits can be sonically transparent when they aren't being overdriven. That is, a human listener could not tell whether they were in a circuit or not, when listening to any actual program material through them (or test tones, for that matter).

But when transformers aren't sonically transparent--for whatever the reason may be, including that the circuit designer may have chosen their characteristics for a certain sonic effect--then their sonic effect can be to contribute "warmth" or it can equally well be a range of other possibilities.

If a person is just browsing spec sheets and not actually testing the specific preamps, either by listening for their sound quality or even measuring their performance with sine waves on a test bench, then no reliable predictions can be made at all about the likely sonic effect of either having a transformer or of not having one.

Again, my apologies to anyone whose views on this subject are incorrect <g>.

My opinion is not at all technical from a bench/datasheet perspective, so please accept my apology if my statement was in any way implying that.

My take is more along the lines of musicians' "tune by ear" method, where a person who has good pitch does not really need an electronic tuner for their guitar, for example. I have tried and listened to enough portable preamps over the last 25 years to render a personal opinion that the MP-1 has a "warm" sound that I attributed to the transformers.

I have a pair of Shure FP11 mono preamps that I used alot back in the '90s that I also found to be "warm" sounding, which I attributed again, evidently incorrectly, to be a characteristic of the transformers. I know I like the sound of preamps with transformers better, and I guess I have no scientific reason to do so, just like I have no scientific reason to explain the music I like to record with them.