Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help  (Read 11830 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AndyLGR

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Gender: Male
SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« on: June 15, 2009, 02:38:32 PM »
This is a query for those that use this battery box which I purchased to replace my old one that I broke.

Its virtually the same except this one has the word OFF written next to the bass roll off switches. My old one had the word OPEN.

The instructions say this about bass roll off:

desired Roll-off Frequency    These switches set to the “open” position
16Hz (no roll-off)               2,3,4
69Hz                                  1,4
95Hz                                  1,3
107Hz                                 1,3,4
160Hz                                 1,2
195Hz                                 1,2,4
888Hz                                 1,2,3

Because my new box says the word OFF instead of OPEN I assumed that off was the opposite of open. So I set my switches accordingly for 107Hz roll off.

I've now found out that this is a typo on the part of the manufacturer and the word OFF should read OPEN (just as my old one did).

Therefore when I used my mic yesterday the only switch that was actually set to open was switch 2.

Does that mean I recorded a gig with no bass roll off on my mic? The recording I got is very good, so I'm a bit confused.

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 04:55:19 PM »
This is a query for those that use this battery box which I purchased to replace my old one that I broke.

Its virtually the same except this one has the word OFF written next to the bass roll off switches. My old one had the word OPEN.

The instructions say this about bass roll off:

desired Roll-off Frequency    These switches set to the “open” position
16Hz (no roll-off)               2,3,4
69Hz                                  1,4
95Hz                                  1,3
107Hz                                 1,3,4
160Hz                                 1,2
195Hz                                 1,2,4
888Hz                                 1,2,3

Because my new box says the word OFF instead of OPEN I assumed that off was the opposite of open. So I set my switches accordingly for 107Hz roll off.

I've now found out that this is a typo on the part of the manufacturer and the word OFF should read OPEN (just as my old one did).

Therefore when I used my mic yesterday the only switch that was actually set to open was switch 2.

Does that mean I recorded a gig with no bass roll off on my mic? The recording I got is very good, so I'm a bit confused.

Haha, Andy, I had the same question.

OFF = OPEN. 

NO ROLLOFF = position 2, 3, 4 "OFF"

Max Rolloff = position 1, 2, 3 OFF

Not sure what only 2 being "OPEN" would get you, but Chris at Sound Professionals can probably take a guess.  Needless to say, yes, you failed to get the 107Hz you wanted.  I made this same mistake when I first started using the SPSB-8 and now have a couple shows with some unintended amounts of rolloff (luckily, they still sound good).
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline AndyLGR

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Gender: Male
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 06:23:31 PM »
I emailed Chris again and he says he will ask the designer what roll off I will have ended up with.

Unintentioally though I have ended up with some good audio . I cant complain too much ;D

Offline Ziggz

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 479
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 07:08:01 PM »
Shit, I think I used "Off" as the opposite to "Open" as well.


<edit>, oh yes, I've had 2,3,4 / No Rolloff round the wrong way  :-[ So I wonder what the lone "1" switched on was doing  :D Recordings sound ok and have a good amount of bass.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 07:52:06 PM by Ziggz »

Offline soundpro

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 09:03:36 PM »
Hello:

Yes, the comapny that made the old rec switches (that said "open") stopped making them. The new blue switches say "off" instead. In the electronics world, an "open" circuit is "off", so, they essentially mean the same things in this case.

Basically, you can interchange 'open' and 'off' on these products.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Chris Carfagno
sales@soundprofessionals.com
www.soundprofessionals.com
The Sound Professionals, Inc.
3444 Sylon Blvd
Hainesport NJ, 08036
800-213-3021
609-267-4400
609-267-0054 fax

Offline fmaderjr

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 04:18:04 AM »
Another problem with battery boxes is that the roll off you get depends on the impedance of your recorder's input as well as the settings. My 10 year old Sound Pro's box was calibrated for a 10 k Ohm impedance (legacy minidisc mic input).

If I set the roll off to 107 and used it with the minidisc's line in (20 k Ohm), I was actually getting a roll off of only 107 x 10/20 = 53. If I used my DAT's line in (47 k Ohm)at that setting, I was only getting a roll off of 20 (107 x 10/47).

To know the roll off you're getting from any battery box, you need to know the impedance it is calibrated for & the impedance of your recorder's input. Depending on your recorder, you can easily wind up with a roll off that is way higher or lower than you intended.

Just another reason it is almost always better to do your roll off in post.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 06:50:55 PM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline Dede2002

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1217
  • Gender: Male
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 05:08:49 PM »
Another problem with battery boxes is that the roll off you get depends on the impedance of your recorder's input as well as the settings. My 10 year old Sound Pro's box was calibrated for a 10 k Ohm impedance (legacy minidisc mic input).

If I set the roll off to 107 and used it with the minidisc's line in (20 k Ohm), I was actually getting a roll off of only 107 x 10/20 = 53. If I used my DAT's line in (4.7 k Ohm)at that setting, I was only getting a roll off of 20 (107 x 4.7/20).

To know the roll off you're getting from any battery box, you need to know the impedance it is calibrated for & the impedance of your recorder's input. Depending on your recorder, you can easily wind up with a roll off that is way higher or lower than you intended.

Just another reason it is almost always better to do your roll off in post.


Couldn't agree more.
I've had the same issues regarding impedance and ended up with no roll off at all.
I gave up using mine, for good or worst. ;)
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline Ziggz

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 479
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 05:36:47 PM »
Here's a pic of old and new, now both hopefully set at No Roll-Off  ;D  Anyone know what the reverse would have been on the new with just Switch 1 "open"/"off"? Still had a decent amount of bass, so hopefully little, if any, was cut (http://rapidshare.com/files/245701460/PFE_sample.mp3 )


Offline yawnfactory

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 10:06:20 PM »
this whole thing just confused me..

i use the same box, and tend to roll@69.

i too have the blue off box. i flip the 1 and 4 switches up while leaving 2 and 3 down.
, or would i have to do the opposite of this for roll off@69

if this is wrong, then what frequency did i get.


typical set up.
sound professionals cmc8w/low sensitivity modification>sp sbs11@69>mic in>r9>2gb memory card

Offline yawnfactory

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2009, 01:30:09 PM »
can i please get some clarification on this issue? i dont want to sound too thick. a show is coming up very fast and i dont want to mess
it up.  thanks

Offline fmaderjr

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2009, 01:59:43 PM »
According to Chris Carfagno "off" = what they used to mark "open", so you need to have switches 1 & 4 down to have a nominal 69 Hz roll off. I say nominal because the roll off also depends on the impedence your recorder's input. See my previous post:

Another problem with battery boxes is that the roll off you get depends on the impedance of your recorder's input as well as the settings. My 10 year old Sound Pro's box was calibrated for a 10 k Ohm impedance (legacy minidisc mic input).

If I set the roll off to 107 and used it with the minidisc's line in (20 k Ohm), I was actually getting a roll off of only 107 x 10/20 = 53. If I used my DAT's line in (47 k Ohm)at that setting, I was only getting a roll off of 20 (107 x 10/47).

To know the roll off you're getting from any battery box, you need to know the impedance it is calibrated for & the impedance of your recorder's input. Depending on your recorder, you can easily wind up with a roll off that is way higher or lower than you intended.

Just another reason it is almost always better to do your roll off in post.

Your desired Roll-off Frequency These switches set to the “off” position
16Hz (no roll-off) 2,3,4
69Hz 1,4
95Hz 1,3
107Hz 1,3,4
160Hz 1,2
195Hz 1,2,4
888Hz 1,2,3
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 02:03:09 PM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline yawnfactory

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2009, 02:47:50 PM »
thanks for the help.  i did 50 shows w/o knowing i flipped the wrong switches. needless to say, it kind of flipped my swtich!
nevertheless, most of shows turned out real well.  being that i pushed 2 and 3 down, or 2 and 4 down, i wonder what i did?

i wonder if this has anything to do with volume issues on the recordings. several of them were just not too loud.

hate to ask a stupid, noob-like question, but how do i know the switch is on?would i push the switches down to have them on?


btw, i use a R9 with sound pro cmc 8 w/low sensitivity modification w/ the sbs 11 battery box.


i almost feel like running out and testing it tonight so i dont mess up the next show.  ughhhh

Offline fmaderjr

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2009, 04:25:49 PM »

nevertheless, most of shows turned out real well.

how do i know the switch is on?would i push the switches down to have them on?


Maybe most turned out well because the way you had the switches set produced little or no roll off. If you got way too much roll off you'd know something was wrong.

To turn a switch off push down the bottom of the rocker switch. You want 1 & 4 off for the 69 Hz setting.

But again, you won't actually get 69 Hz unless the impedance of the recorder's input it the same as the impedance the battery box was calibrated for. If the newer SP boxes are still calibrated for 10 k Ohms, like my 10 year old one, you will only get 10/20 of that roll off going mic in to an R-09 and 10/17 going line in (since the R-09's input impedances are 20 k Ohm for mic in and 17 K Ohm for line in). To get something closer to a 69 K Ohm roll off, you may actually need to set the battery box to the 107 or possibly even the 160 setting.

Again, this is one of the many reasons most of us advocate doing your roll off in post.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline yawnfactory

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2009, 01:28:51 PM »
so how would i know how the sbs 11 is calibrated? i did order it with the sbs 8 mics at the same time, with sound pros knowing
it was going to be used with the r9. perhaps they specifically calibrated it?  based on what you are saying, it sounds
best not to use and roll off at all. so i might try that next, and see how it goes. but i hate experimenting with abig act

Offline fmaderjr

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2009, 01:49:55 PM »
so how would i know how the sbs 11 is calibrated? i did order it with the sbs 8 mics at the same time, with sound pros knowing it was going to be used with the r9. perhaps they specifically calibrated it? 

based on what you are saying, it sounds best not to use and roll off at all.

I'm sure all the SP battery boxes (at least of a given model) are calibrated the same. Send Chris Carfagno of SP an e-mail asking him what impedance a recorder's input must have for the roll off to produce the effects they list. I'm guessing it may still be 10 K Ohm like my 10 year old one.

Most of us feel it's best to do all roll off in post and never with a battery box, partly because of problems like this with different recorder input impedances, but also because the bass you don't record can never be recovered.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline yawnfactory

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 67
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2009, 08:27:17 PM »
i usually get a good amount of bass, but it seems the "wrong" settings killed the mid tone of the guitar for certain bands (nebula, as an example)
so here we go trying it the right way today, with no roll off. will see what happens. hopefully i get there early and can test
it out on one of the openers.
i did email sound pros about the frequencies, but didnt get an answer. perhaps they too are waiting for an answer.

Offline fmaderjr

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 07:37:28 AM »
You'll save yourself a lot of aggravation by permanently forgetting the roll off and learning how to do it in post (if necessary).
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline xyladecor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2012, 11:25:38 AM »
sorry to get this old one high, but i am pretty unsure.

is this set up right for 69 khz bass roll off (1, 4)?



thanks so much for any help!

adrianf74

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 03:22:58 PM »
You'll save yourself a lot of aggravation by permanently forgetting the roll off and learning how to do it in post (if necessary).

QFT.

I never use roll-off anymore just in case what I'm hearing versus what the mics are hearing differ (which is quite often different).  It's easier to do this in post after the fact as fmadejr said.   Somebody on here once told me that it's easier to roll off unwanted bass after the fact but you can never add it back in to a tinny-sounding (lacking bass) capture.   Hope this helps.

Offline fmaderjr

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 03:50:18 PM »
sorry to get this old one high, but i am pretty unsure.

is this set up right for 69 khz bass roll off (1, 4)?

thanks so much for any help!

Yes, according to the seller, but it will only be true if your recorder's input impedance is 10 Ohms. If your are going mic in to an R-09 for example (20 Ohm impedance) your roll off will only be 69 x (10/20). Just another reason many off us don't use a battery box with a roll off.

Your desired Roll-off Frequency
These switches set to the “open” position (assuming 10 Ohm recorder input impedance):
16Hz (no roll-off) 2,3,4
69Hz 1,4
95Hz 1,3
107Hz 1,3,4

160Hz 1,2
195Hz 1,2,4
888Hz 1,2,3
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 01:54:34 PM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline dedhed69

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Gender: Male
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2012, 10:22:08 AM »
1st What a great place  :D

A few questions on this subject.
1) on these battery boxes which is better to get the hardwired output cable or the removeable output cable and why?
2) after reading this discussion is it better to get the sp-spsb-10 w/o the roll off then the sp-spsb-11 w/ roll off
3) if i get the box w/o roll of what software are you using in post. production
my setup would be
sp-cmc--2 > battery box > sony pcm-m10
any other input would be great.
thanks in advance
happy jack  :)
All Bought New December 2012
Mics: Church Audio CA-14 [Cards & Omnis] with 5ft. ext cable for mics
Preamp: Church Audio CA-9200
Recorder: Sony PCM-M10
Memory Card: SanDisk Ultra [MicroSDHC] 8gb (class10)
Recording Mode: LPCM [wav] 48.00kHz/24bit
Mounts: Auray OLM-10 removeable clipps and In search of a Bar for a stand & clamp
Clamp: In Search of
Stand: In search of

Offline AndyLGR

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Gender: Male
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 06:18:27 AM »
sorry to get this old one high, but i am pretty unsure.

is this set up right for 69 khz bass roll off (1, 4)?

thanks so much for any help!

Yes, according to the seller, but it will only be true if your recorder's input impedance is 10 Ohms. If your are going mic in to an R-09 for example (20 Ohm impedance) your roll off will only be 69 x (10/20). Just another reason many off us don't use a battery box with a roll off.

Your desired Roll-off Frequency
These switches set to the “open” position (assuming 10 Ohm recorder input impedance):
16Hz (no roll-off) 2,3,4
69Hz 1,4
95Hz 1,3
107Hz 1,3,4

160Hz 1,2
195Hz 1,2,4
888Hz 1,2,3

Resurrecting an old thread to save me posting the same stuff again.

@fmaderjr You mention the 20 ohm impedance of the R09 which I also use, so if I set the roll off to 69khz what roll off am I actually getting?

Is it better to go with no roll off and set it to 16khz?

The mics I use are either SP-CMC-4U cards or CA-11 omnis.

Offline earmonger

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • 20-20000 Hz
Re: SP-SPSB-11 roll off setting help
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 12:41:33 PM »
I'd suggest getting the removable cable because if that cable breaks you can replace it. If a hard-wired cable gets loose or staticky, there goes the battery box. Of course, you do need a reliable cable and you have to make sure it's plugged in.

Don't spend the extra $$ on bass roll-off. Bass roll-off used to be helpful--maybe, possibly, though I never saw the point--on recorders like minidisc units that would distort with big bass. But  recorders now can handle the whole spectrum better (assuming you have levels set sanely) and bass roll-off on the battery box is crude at best. Better to get the best fidelity your mics can provide and tweak later (if necessary, probably not) than to get a recording you can't restore. It's like a photo--you apply the Instagram effect after you shoot the photo, not while shooting it.

As has been repeated here, you can do any bass roll-off with software--even software as basic as Audacity, which is free, has lots of equalization options. You can also do it with the EQ in whatever you are using to play back the music.

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.134 seconds with 51 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF