Topic: MOTU Traveler

[Steve J]

This unit (MOTU Traveler) was brought to my attention today; and it looks like something that my fill my quest for portable 4-to-6 track recording without totally breaking the bank. Anyone got any info on it...as in I've seen this up close & personal?

[jpschust]

do you need the pres in it or will line level do?

[Steve J]

Basically, what I'd be looking at is something that can tie one set of mics in and a SBD. Optimally, I'd have a second set of mics feeding in as well. I would need phantom power for the first mic pair. I definitely want to take everything to a hard drive recorder (currently using a lappy); and synch'ing on the front end would save headaches in post work. And adding to the mix is that whatever I use has to be airline portable, i.e., fit in the overhead storage or under the seat in front of me.

I'm playing around with a FW 1814 right now; but (as posted elsewhere) I'm having ASIO driver issues. I've had the opportunity to 'fondle' the more expensive MOTU gear and I really like the equipment. So seeing that they may be trying to cater to this (less expensive) niche is nice. Plus, according to the literature, it can be battery powered.

[nic]

if the Traveler is similar to the 828mkii, then it is a very nice box.
havent tried the preamps on the mkii though...

bear in mind, this is rack mountable. minus the brackets, this thing is probably 16-17" wide

[Steve J]

Actually, the literature sez 14.75 x 9 inches...which makes it not much longer than my laptop.

[eric.B]

I have been looking at it myself..  firewire powered and yes, it will work at "line" levels..  gonna have to keep looking at this ... 

[heath]

i haven't had any experience with this particular unit, but as others have said, MOTU products are reliable and well built.  I have had great results with the gear of theirs that I have used.  I can only expect that this unit would match,

[1st set only]

WAY COOL any idea on the cost?

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler/tour.html

[Steve J]

So far, I've seen it at Musician's Friend for $849...which means you can most likely find it for under $800 elsewhere (when it's finally on the shelves). Guess I should do a Froogle search.

[nic]

as correlation, the 828mkii sells for $750 retail...not sure what msrp is.

[Jason B]

I believe retailers are only taking preorders on this unit. I'm not sure when it ships, but I don't think it is available yet.

[wbrisette]

if the Traveler is similar to the 828mkii, then it is a very nice box.
havent tried the preamps on the mkii though...

The preamps on the 2408mkII, which is the older 828, are sweet. MOTU put a lot of effort into those boxes, which is why they don't sell for $200. Are they worth the 700-800 for the MK units? I don't know, but I wouldn't give mine up.

Wayne

[wbrisette]

just heard rave ups on this unit last night in a phone conversation with a guy who is a musical composer and recordist. he was strongly suggesting this and a laptop, as opposed to waiting out the SD unit or spending the big bucks on the nagra or deva units.

I'll tell you though, there are two things spending the money on the DEVA have done. One is prove to me that somebody can make an all-in-one box that sounds clean, no extra "warmth", no extra this, or that. What you put into it, is what it lays down. The other thing is service. The other night I screwed up and during venue changes (two different bars), I didn't switch the battery, so it ran for around 3.5 hours before it ran out of juice. I didn't have the internal battery in the unit, so it couldn't fall back to that, so it just died. This isn't such a bad thing, but as the file gets placed on the hard drive, it does have to close it. When it powered itself down, that file wasn't closed. At 9:30 AM I posted my question about how to get the data off the unit in the DEVA owner's list, and by 4 PM I had a new version of the firmware that allowed me to rebuild the directory and get the file off the drive. I didn't loose a single bit (well, yes I did everything after the unit turned itself off). On the other hand, I'm still working with MOTU on getting their broadcast wave stuff working properly in Digital Performer. Now, granted there is a huge difference in the price I paid for one product or the next, but my point is there are times you need that extra help and it's nice to see a company make the effort to help out.

Wayne

[nic]

Wayne, what problems have you had with the MOTU and DP?

havent used the 2408/mkii, but I use the 828 and 828mkii with both DP3 and DP4.
I've been running that rig(for multitracks and matrixs) for the past 3+ years and never had a problem

for $100 more(new/retail), the mkii series is a BIG step up in terms of versatility. the mkii units can even operate standalone and mix from their front panel!

[wbrisette]

support of poly-broadcast wav files (or lack of it). I've been working with them since I got the DEVA to fix these issues and to date they keep requesting samples, but I haven't seen any progress. I got an unusual email from them yesterday telling me they don't support poly files and to use mono files for now. I thought, WTF? They know I know this, and they have been the one's asking me for the files ?. It really made me wonder what was going on up there in MA. ;-)

Wayne

[nic]

umm, what are poly-broadcast files?.

 

[wbrisette]

umm, what are poly-broadcast files?.

BWF (Broadcast WAV File) is a format that allows you to have multiple channels in a single file. Normally a WAV file can only have either 1 or 2 channels. Today's multichannel recorders needed a way to put multple channels in the same file, thus BWF was developed. It was originally developed by MS & IBM (when they worked together) Zaxcom was one of the first to actually use it for the DEVA II, then it was adopted by the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) and turned into a real standard.

Lots of stuff now using BWF files or at least reads some form of them *(they really aren't very different from normal WAV file, they simply have a section of data that contains scene, take, and notes data, along with number of channels)*

A mono BWF file just contains a single channel. I asked them for support of poly (or multiple channel) files.

Wayne

[nic]

umm, what are poly-broadcast files?.

BWF (Broadcast WAV File) is a format that allows you to have multiple channels in a single file. Normally a WAV file can only have either 1 or 2 channels. Today's multichannel recorders needed a way to put multple channels in the same file, thus BWF was developed. It was originally developed by Zaxcom for the DEVA II, then it was adopted by the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) and turned into a real standard.

Lots of stuff now using BWF files or at least reads some form of them *(they really aren't very different from normal WAV file, they simply have a section of data that contains scene, take, and notes data, along with number of channels)*

A mono BWF file just contains a single channel. I asked them for support of poly (or multiple channel) files.

Wayne

ah...yeah, no matter what format you export to, your only options are mono or stereo.

do you have another program that can create these poly files?
if so, have you tried bringing in the SDII files or exporting to another format then combining them into the poly file?

[wbrisette]

do you have another program that can create these poly files?
if so, have you tried bringing in the SDII files or exporting to another format then combining them into the poly file?

It's only a pain using mono files because you have to keep track of them. I typically use either a 3 or 4 mic setup, thus have 3 or 4 channel files. It is simply much easier to use a single file than 3 or 4 separate files. However, DP allows me to use the timecode data in the files to align them, so it's really easy either way to get the mutlple files aligned and then bounce them to a two channel recording.

Wayne

[nic]

if all 3 or 4 of your channels are recording through the same AD then you have no need for timecode unless your synching them with a video source or other external source. they will be aligned automatically.

[wbrisette]

if all 3 or 4 of your channels are recording through the same AD then you have no need for timecode unless your synching them with a video source or other external source. they will be aligned automatically.

One really cool feature of the DEVA is the ability to have 10 seconds of "buffer", so I can stop and start the unit multiple times and not loose any sound/data. I've done this a few times, To get things all channels & segments perfectly aligned, timecode is necessary. But you're right normally timecode data isn't necessary. But, it's there, so why not use it. ;-)

Wayne

[Steve J]

In this morning's deliveries, I received a MOTU Traveler. It must be an omen of which brand of laptop I'm going to be purchasing. There's only a disc for Windows stuff...and a disc plus a couple manuals for Mac. Wonder which flavor has the better support?! 

[Steve J]

Well, first experiences have been mostly favorable. Since I'm in between laptops at the moment, I tried the Traveler out with a tower (Pentium IV 1.4g, 512mb ram, Firewire 400 hub installed) that has Soundforge 6.0 and Wavelab 5 installed already. I did this late last night; so I only had a chance to test basic operations.

I had no problems getting the unit to communicate with the computer and the drivers installed easily. I started by doing a simple recording test with a couple SM57's into channels 1 & 2. Soundforge 6.0 was first,  using both the MOTU Mix and Analog driver selections. Test recorded at 24/96, worked just fine...although I see that I'll have to get used to how the pad & input trim work with different mics (as expected).

Wavelab next. No problem configuring for two channel using the WDM MOTU Mix or Analog selections; and I was able to do stereo 24/96 with no problem. However, when I switched to the MOTU Firewire driver for the ASIO drivers, I ran into an odd situation. The screen that pops up in Wavelab allowing one to assign the various channels did not open to it's full size...so you could only see about 1/3 of the window. Consequently, only two channels were visible to assign; and though I did get a recording using the ASIO drivers, I was only able to get two channels. Sort of defeats the reason for using the ASIO in Wavelab (well...it is for me anyway). It might have been because I was only feeding signals to two channels; but during the next phase of testing I plan to increase the number of inputs systematically and see where it goes. I have a feeling that the more I work with this unit, the more it will become apparent that a Mac is the smart(est) choice for the new laptop.

[dgale]

I have a feeling that the more I work with this unit, the more it will become apparent that a Mac is the smart(est) choice for the new laptop.

Whatever you get, make sure you get lots of foreign power adapters for that Europe tour you'll be doing this summer 

Hey, wait...if you get a Mac, how are you going to stuff HD's full of goodies for me as I still plug away on the ol' Dell?  I guess I better get that DSL line after all.

[Dr.FOB]

I've had my Traveler for about a month now with two outings in the can.
I'm a Windoze user so the documentation was minimal, 1/4 PC - 3/4 MAC.
Following the instructions, all drivers and configuration programs loaded nicely.
Preliminary trials with Vegas worked well.  Looking at other s/w for increased flexibility.

The first outing proved to be just a test of the mic pre inputs as no board feeds were allowed.  As such, I chose to run 24/96.  Each set ran 84+ minutes:( as if they new it would overrun a CDR... First listen is great, but no DVDA burned yet.

The second outing,3/30, I had expected to get my choice of board signals and ended up with only the PA mix due to the nature of the  channel assignments with multiple artists in rotation.  I ran the board together with a 24/48 digi out of the V3 from my mics.  This box allows for 8 analog, 8 ADAT light pipe(or 2 toslink), 2 SPDIF & 2 AES/EBU concurrent inputs.  Very Schweet!  Though I haven't tested it yet, the SPDIF, Toslink, & AES/EBU outputs can be configured to output 44.1/48K independantly, as a multiple of the input settings.  I made the mistake of assigning my inputs to a stereo channel.  The show ended up being a 3.5hr. non-stop rotation of artists with no set breaks, and then an encore.  I was not running WL and made the mistake of assigning my inputs to stereo channels instead of individual mono channels.  As such, I picked a point at about 1:45 and stopped the recording, saved, and restarted.  This will yield a gap in my mixdown, but since I ran another lappy as backup, the audience will remain continuous.  I restarted again before the encore and added in another 6 analog channels just to get more info pumping through the firewire input.  On my 1.8Ghz PM box with a 60G 7200rpm drive I only ran @ 2% CPU/1% HD load.

Awesome powering options with this box as well.  Least usable for me is firewire from a 6pin interface, my laptop only has the 4pin style.  The other two are great, both are 9-24VDC.  One is a polarity independant pin & sleeve socket, the other a 4-pin XLR.  The box is rated 1A @ 12V.  I suspect this is running all channels with phantom on the 4 mic inputs.  I ran my 10.8V 6.8Ahr LI-Ion pack for over 4 hours before changing cells, just for good measure.  No low voltage/shutdown signals are provided that I have found.

Overall I am extremely pleased with the MOTU box.  I haven't even started to explore the capabilities but lust for even more channels already....  My goal is to be able to capture concurrent independant channels for live surround projects.  I think this is just the right box.
Havin' a good time...
Jim

[Steve J]

I have a feeling that the more I work with this unit, the more it will become apparent that a Mac is the smart(est) choice for the new laptop.

Whatever you get, make sure you get lots of foreign power adapters for that Europe tour you'll be doing this summer

Hey, wait...if you get a Mac, how are you going to stuff HD's full of goodies for me as I still plug away on the ol' Dell? I guess I better get that DSL line after all.

Oh...so I guess I should cancel my plans for Saskatoon & Manitoba and start planning for Europe? Wait...I don't even have my passport...or a solid itinerary yet!! 

Eh...details, details.

[Steve J]

Overall I am extremely pleased with the MOTU box. I haven't even started to explore the capabilities but lust for even more channels already.... My goal is to be able to capture concurrent independant channels for live surround projects. I think this is just the right box.
Havin' a good time...
Jim

I'm with you here: just can't wait to see what all this thing can do. Until I make the "final" choice for a lappy, I'll continue to test out on a Windows tower. I've got a couple shows next week that would be perfect to try it out; but I probably won't be ready to 'field test' for a few weeks yet. Damn...new toyz is meant to be used!!

[dgale]

I have a feeling that the more I work with this unit, the more it will become apparent that a Mac is the smart(est) choice for the new laptop.

Whatever you get, make sure you get lots of foreign power adapters for that Europe tour you'll be doing this summer

Hey, wait...if you get a Mac, how are you going to stuff HD's full of goodies for me as I still plug away on the ol' Dell? I guess I better get that DSL line after all.

Oh...so I guess I should cancel my plans for Saskatoon & Manitoba and start planning for Europe? Wait...I don't even have my passport...or a solid itinerary yet!! 

Eh...details, details.

Who said anything about cancelling plans for Saskatoon and Winnipeg?  Jeez, what's a few thousand miles to catch a couple shows?  As for a passport, have no fear - you can get one in San Fran in 48 hours if needed and besides, you don't need to hit Europe until July, so plenty of time to trot down to the PO and fill out the application.  You can use that photo of you taping in TX on my website for your passport photo - that'll throw the customs guys a curveball   

[doliam]

anyone try to power this off a battery pack in the field yet?  I have a Traveller arriving today and don't want to get rid of my UA5 until I know I can power the Traveller in the field.  I'll have power alot of times I am using it, but I do want a backup in case I don't get power.  My laptop won't last for long enuf if I draw more power from it, so powering via firewire is not an option.  Anyways, i'm looking for suggestions on how to power this thing... any help would be appreciated.

[Steve J]

I normally have AC access also when I'm out recording; but just in case, I'm getting a 12v setup tomorrow. I went the EC90 route. Just like you, I want to be sure to have a fallback.

FWIW, I did some testing over the weekend, powering the Traveler (w/ two sets of mics with phantom on) off the Firewire bus of my Powerbook running on the (stock) battery alone. I was really surprised how well it did. Guess the fact that the Traveler uses so little of the processor's capacity aids in the laptop's battery life. We'll see about how much the Traveler sucks up from the EC90 when I do more testing this weekend.

So far, I'm really pleased with the Traveler from an operational standpoint. It's been easy to install, setup and record (the Mac helps there, I believe ); but I guess the jury is still out on sound quality until I've gotten a few shows under my belt. It's really cool to be able to fit the Traveler & the Powerbook together in the same case that I used to carry my old Dell lappy alone.

[doliam]

I've been playing around with this device a bit at home.  I bought CuBase SE to use with it.  This weekend i'll be putting it to a good test.  We'll be running a matrix mix... AudiX mics thru analog 1 and 2, mixed with a stereo soundboard (yamaha dm2000) feed through the AES-EBU input.  The show is also being done in 5.1, so I'll be recording those 6 channels thru the lightpipe connection.  I am wondering if I need to use time synch for my matrix mix?  CuBase SE doesn't support time synch thru ASIO.  I will be recording a mix of those 4 channels (using mix1) and also the 4 channels seperately.  I should be close enuf to the stacks that I won't need to delay the soundboard... but, what if I do a show where that isn't the case.  Will I need to have time synch running if I want to align the 2 stereo feeds after the fact? 

[wbrisette]

I've been playing around with this device a bit at home.  I bought CuBase SE to use with it.  This weekend i'll be putting it to a good test.  We'll be running a matrix mix... AudiX mics thru analog 1 and 2, mixed with a stereo soundboard (yamaha dm2000) feed through the AES-EBU input.  The show is also being done in 5.1, so I'll be recording those 6 channels thru the lightpipe connection.  I am wondering if I need to use time synch for my matrix mix?  CuBase SE doesn't support time synch thru ASIO.  I will be recording a mix of those 4 channels (using mix1) and also the 4 channels seperately.  I should be close enuf to the stacks that I won't need to delay the soundboard... but, what if I do a show where that isn't the case.  Will I need to have time synch running if I want to align the 2 stereo feeds after the fact? 

Unless you're feeding out of your laptop, don't sweat it. Grab all the feeds and put them on separate channels. You're using the same crystal, so all your timing will be correct. If your tracks are a bit out of sync, don't sweat it. After the show, sit down at home and realign the tracks that are out of sync. It's much easier to do things this way.

Wayne

[doliam]

cool.  thanks for the quick reply.  I thought I didn't need time synch if it was all going to my laptop, but after all the talk of time synch in the Motu Traveller manual, I got a little worried.

Now, I just have to read up on encoding 6 wav files to Dolby Digital and making a dvd-audio disc out of the 5.1 mix that i'll be recording   

[nic]

I've been playing around with this device a bit at home.  I bought CuBase SE to use with it.  This weekend i'll be putting it to a good test.  We'll be running a matrix mix... AudiX mics thru analog 1 and 2, mixed with a stereo soundboard (yamaha dm2000) feed through the AES-EBU input.  The show is also being done in 5.1, so I'll be recording those 6 channels thru the lightpipe connection.  I am wondering if I need to use time synch for my matrix mix?  CuBase SE doesn't support time synch thru ASIO.  I will be recording a mix of those 4 channels (using mix1) and also the 4 channels seperately.  I should be close enuf to the stacks that I won't need to delay the soundboard... but, what if I do a show where that isn't the case.  Will I need to have time synch running if I want to align the 2 stereo feeds after the fact? 

Unless you're feeding out of your laptop, don't sweat it. Grab all the feeds and put them on separate channels. You're using the same crystal, so all your timing will be correct. If your tracks are a bit out of sync, don't sweat it. After the show, sit down at home and realign the tracks that are out of sync. It's much easier to do things this way.

Wayne

even when using the ADAT input? wouldnt you have to set sync source to external like s/pdif?
I have no idea as I have never used ADAT with the MOTU interfaces

[wbrisette]

even when using the ADAT input? wouldnt you have to set sync source to external like s/pdif?
I have no idea as I have never used ADAT with the MOTU interfaces

I think you may be right, but if you clock everything off the same signal no matter what it sounds like live, you will be able to easily align the tracks.

Wayne

[doliam]

I can synch the traveller to the DM2000 via ADAT or a host of other methods.  I just can't synch CuBase to my traveller.

[Dr.FOB]

Definately sync the Traveler to the digital input source, be it ADAT or SPDIF. 
I have not had good luck in running multiple digital inputs and remaining sync'd. 
There are periodic blips of static throughout all channels. 

I have run all eight analog and either ADAT or SPDIF/AES inputs, but not two digi inputs.
I read that you need an external sync device to keep the digi's in line...

[Steve J]

Ran the MOTU>Powerbook G4 combo at three Los Lobos shows this weekend. I had two sets of mics running (Neumann KM140's and ADK TL's) through the XLR inputs with phantom on; and I also ran in a SBD feed via line in (XLR>1/4" TRS). Chain went like this:



I recorded at 24/48. I could have easily recorded 24/96; but I brain-farted when I did my prep work and entered the settings as 24/48. I can only guess this was force of habit from using my other lappy with the VX Pocket V2 for digi in.

First, let me say that I ran into no computer errors with this setup: no blips, no (apparent) dropped samples, no crashes. Utterly refreshing. On Friday night, I was surfing the 'Net at the same time as recording. Maybe not the smartest thing to do (only running 512 MB memory at the moment); but it doesn't seem to have caused any problems.

I didn't use any outboard preamps, so that I could get a feel for the sound of the unit. I guess the best description would be "clear"...which seems OK for the Neumann's; but it made the already bright sounding TL's seem even brighter. Still sounds OK; but I hope to be able to experiment with some preamps later on.

I had to get used to the line in a bit. Even with -10 pad switch on, the input seemed overly sensitive (probably just me). As the 'faders' in the MOTU CueMix only reduced the digital level, I could still get clips. I had to back off the levels at the SBD...not unreasonably so; just more than I had been accustomed to doing before running SBD>preamp>DA-P1.

As for power consumption, I did not experiment running the Traveler off batteries. Although I did bring along my EC90, I had access to AC power at all three venues. I just powered the Traveler off the Firewire bus on the Powerbook and plugged the Powerbook into the AC. Next time out, I'll test out the consumption "under fire."

Overall, I'm very pleased with the results I got. Couldn't have been smoother. I love the fact that I have all my sources done at the same bit/sample rate, in one place, all ready to start editing. One funny thing though: don't know it was because TSA has been being ragged on a lot lately or what; but the Traveler was viewed with a lot of suspicion when I was going through security at the airports...even more than the SLA's. But not as much as the KM140's with the actives. 

[heath]

i'd be really interested to see how things go without AC power. 

Thanks for the update!! 

[Steve J]

Looking hard at being at Hartwood for Los Lobos; so you might see me there.

[heath]

Looking hard at being at Hartwood for Los Lobos; so you might see me there.

awesome!

[ingsy]

Bump....

I am thinking of replacing the W-Mod UA-5 with this box...had a few questions:
1) Although I would normally be using a laptop w/ this - can it run stand-alone w/ a DAT or even a JB3 if I use a battery?
2) Any more comments on the overall sound, incuding the pre-amps?

Thanks for the help.

[nic]

I had to get used to the line in a bit. Even with -10 pad switch on, the input seemed overly sensitive (probably just me). As the 'faders' in the MOTU CueMix only reduced the digital level, I could still get clips. I had to back off the levels at the SBD...not unreasonably so; just more than I had been accustomed to doing before running SBD>preamp>DA-P1.

you used the -10 on the line inputs or the mic inputs?
are you sure it was a pad or just the "consumer" line signal?
if for the line inputs, you should have set it to +4, this tells the MOTU what type of signal you are sending it(a "pro" signal)

[Steve J]

The Traveler can be either pre-configured using a computer to set up sample/bit rates, routing, etc or you can do the configurations from the front panel (it's faster to use a computer though). Then the signal can be routed to  a feed via S/PDIF or Optical out to a DAT or JB3. You can run the Traveler off 12-volt and control levels from the front panel.  I still haven't tried running the unit off battery power (just too easy to run it off the lappy when you've got AC available  )

I haven't had the opportunity to experiment with preamps yet. Lots of things to try; and I just haven't had the time to systematically test things out. My main goal has been to be able to have a stable, consistent environment where I can run 24/96 multichannel without being overly paranoid that I'm going to have a system lockup at inopportune times....and that I definitely now have. I do think that the recordings I've done thusfar could be improved with a decent preamp on the front end...especially the ADK's. I have some tag-teaming coming up soon and I should have the opportunity to experiment more then.

[Steve J]

I had to get used to the line in a bit. Even with -10 pad switch on, the input seemed overly sensitive (probably just me). As the 'faders' in the MOTU CueMix only reduced the digital level, I could still get clips. I had to back off the levels at the SBD...not unreasonably so; just more than I had been accustomed to doing before running SBD>preamp>DA-P1.

you used the -10 on the line inputs or the mic inputs?
are you sure it was a pad or just the "consumer" line signal?
if for the line inputs, you should have set it to +4, this tells the MOTU what type of signal you are sending it(a "pro" signal)

Guess I'll have to cogitate on this, as I remember having the difficulty really only one night. I ran the XLR matrix out to the line in on the Traveler via an XLR>TRS. As I didn't make the connection to the board myself (my rule number 1 when dealing with the FOH engineer is that it's his house and I'm just visiting: I let him do the connections to the board), it could be there was some creative patching going on there.

Most likely user error, though...

[ingsy]

The Traveler can be either pre-configured using a computer to set up sample/bit rates, routing, etc or you can do the configurations from the front panel (it's faster to use a computer though). Then the signal can be routed to  a feed via S/PDIF or Optical out to a DAT or JB3. You can run the Traveler off 12-volt and control levels from the front panel.  I still haven't tried running the unit off battery power (just too easy to run it off the lappy when you've got AC available  )
I haven't had the opportunity to experiment with preamps yet. Lots of things to try; and I just haven't had the time to systematically test things out. My main goal has been to be able to have a stable, consistent environment where I can run 24/96 multichannel without being overly paranoid that I'm going to have a system lockup at inopportune times....and that I definitely now have. I do think that the recordings I've done thusfar could be improved with a decent preamp on the front end...especially the ADK's. I have some tag-teaming coming up soon and I should have the opportunity to experiment more then.

+ T.  Thanks a bunch for the info.  I think I may sell my warm-mod ua-5 and get one of these instead.