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Author Topic: very simple setup for stealth recording  (Read 27778 times)

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dorrcoq

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2008, 12:11:07 AM »
What I don't understand is, if this guy wants to buy an inexpensive recorder and make at best a so-so recording for his own enjoyment, then why the fuck do some of you get upset about it?  His money, his time, his risk.  If you don't have constructive advice for him, like he requested, then don't post shit ripping him.

nameloc01

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2008, 12:30:59 AM »
I don't think anyone (at least I wasn't) was ripping on him, he just got some honest,blunt answers. Really, if you can finance some outboard mics, its kinda silly to take the risk of being caught (especially being in that location) for a tape that,unfortunately, will almost certainly not be all that good. I've taken shortcuts before, and have been very dissapointed afterwards, which very well may be the case here. If it were me, I'd get some remote mics and trade that front row seat for something more condusive to pulling a better sounding tape...you kinda have to be decide if you're there to tape (from the best sounding spot), or watch from the best possible seat...very seldomly are these locations one in the same.

Offline illconditioned

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2008, 01:27:03 AM »
I don't think anyone (at least I wasn't) was ripping on him, he just got some honest,blunt answers. Really, if you can finance some outboard mics, its kinda silly to take the risk of being caught (especially being in that location) for a tape that,unfortunately, will almost certainly not be all that good. I've taken shortcuts before, and have been very dissapointed afterwards, which very well may be the case here. If it were me, I'd get some remote mics and trade that front row seat for something more condusive to pulling a better sounding tape...you kinda have to be decide if you're there to tape (from the best sounding spot), or watch from the best possible seat...very seldomly are these locations one in the same.

If the PA is well designed you should have some fills in the middle, right?  Before I got into taping, I heard just fine up front at many shows.  Clubs are a common exception, but most bigger gigs should be done right.

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2008, 01:57:25 AM »
So, lemme see if I understand correctly, nameloc.  People who believe musicians' perspectives on taping should be respected, share that opinion with others and only tape openly, are "lifestyle" tapers and elitist.  On the other hand, people who think open-only tapers are "lifestyle" tapers who don't really enjoy the music are not elitist.  Have I summarized your perspective correctly?
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nameloc01

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2008, 07:30:56 AM »
I directly referring to people who will only tape "open" bands, who will not tape someone they would like to because they are not "open" and throw shit at the people who actually will,... thinking that somehow this makes them a better person. Most musicians,as I constantly read in interviews, aren't against the "taping" per se, they are against the selling of the recordings, as a lot of the "no taping" stems from their contracts. Now, there are exceptions obviously. And I never said every single person who only "open" tapes is a "lifestyle taper", but there are quite a few of them that are. Again, people who are into "the scene" just as much or more than the actual music itself. There are people like this everywhere, involved in everything,..so I'm really not "singling out" taping, that's just the topic at hand (reference the "frat-fag" lifestyle GD lot-goer).
And to point out, I suppose any "stealth-only" taper would fall into the same category, although, every  stealth that I know will or does run both when able.
Hell..would (not you personally Brian) not tape a band that was "okay" with taping just because they were playing in a "no taping" venue? Its the venue owners "wishes" right? We shouldn't tape..(?)

I think,myself, that probably every live show should be documented..I really do. Unfortunately, I do not have the time or means of doing every single show that has personal relevance to me, I pick and choose what shows that I'm able to do (for various reasons) and then do them,.."Open" or not, "venue permitting" or not. I do not sell my shit, I do not torrent my shit, never not once, I tape for myself. I most certainly do not sit around the house waiting for (which probably is ultimately "whomever") whatever band is playing and is "open" taping so I can go tape "someone", and then make some kind of "morality crudade" against people who don't do the same...the people who tape whatever needs taped (open or not)
Its no tapers responsiblity to "fight the good fight" for, what is in most cases, the record companies policies. Like I said, the "elitism" can,of course, work both ways, but 99.9999% its coming from one *very specific* place.

Now, I really don't know what your (brian) taping program is, even if you only "open" tape, I don't remember you ever making any crazy "anti-stealth taper" comments, so my comment/opinion most likely does not pertain to you. It does pertain to the certain select elitsists here (again attmetpting to make the "holier-than-thou" case), and the ones I have met in person at numerous shows.

nameloc01

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2008, 07:38:05 AM »
Richard,
The sound may be fine up front, but then again there's a good chance it won't. I never said it would suck for sure, but, if it were I, I'd play it safe(r) and trade that seat for something that would have a better chance of making a good recording.I'd say that to anyone, that's all I meant.
-J

nameloc01

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2008, 08:10:56 AM »
FYI,..My comments were directed at the kind of people who make the comments like the one(s) ealier in this thread.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2008, 11:14:27 AM »
What I don't understand is, if this guy wants to buy an inexpensive recorder and make at best a so-so recording for his own enjoyment, then why the fuck do some of you get upset about it?  His money, his time, his risk.  If you don't have constructive advice for him, like he requested, then don't post shit ripping him.

I don't think anyone is upset...  But the dude is fun to laugh at.

He deserves to be ripped because he made it very clear that he isn't interested in making any effort.  He doesn't want to "bother".  That includes, apparently, researching the many times this question has been asked in the past.  There are people who come here and are genuinely interested in making the effort to learn.  That's Not this dude.

He doesn't even want to do any practice shows.  That's just moronic.

His attitude, combined with his zero experience, suggests there is a chance he'll get caught and that is bad for everyone.

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Offline Ekib

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2008, 11:20:06 AM »
Interesting topic !

My comments :

Open Taping...the quality doesn't have to be better than stealth. A lot of times when I was given the choice open taping the venue told me where to stand. That's not always the best location to get the best sounding recording. Usually open taping recordings are more stable than stealth for practical reasons. But sound wise I know better spots in a lot of venues than the spots for open taping.

I have done a lot of open taping in Holland where the venues didn't care at all. With the exception of one venue all the clubs / venues I have taped where very cooperative and helpful. Some venues even treat you like a royal. And that includes even bigger sized venues !
Like I said one venue doesn't want it here because they say it takes away from tickets they can sell. That was when we had permission to video and the gig was sold out.

Front Row...I have once taped a gig at the 3rd row in a bigger venue ( 2000 capacity ). For some reason the recording came out excellent.
Sometimes you just never know. I have taped from the left , right , center , FOB , Balcony etc.etc. Every venue is different. Some mix stereo , some don't. There is one venue which I am always standing on the right side very close to the PA. They don't mix stereo so it's a perfect spot. I did FOB in the same venue and it came out disappointing.
Usually when I am not familiar with a venue I walk through the venue checking the sweetest spot during the support acts .

Taping is a difficult job for sure !


But I have to say, I don’t mind it. I do object when I see people sticking microphones up my nose, in the front row. If I see anyone doing that [laughs] I’m going to have security remove them. Because that’s just obnoxious. But I don’t mind if people come and discreetly at the back make a recording of it. And I know that it’s just for their own use, for the superfan.
(Steven Wilson , interview http://blog.musoscribe.com/index.php/2011/01/25/interview-steven-wilson-on-audience-taping/ )

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2008, 11:40:40 AM »
What I don't understand is, if this guy wants to buy an inexpensive recorder and make at best a so-so recording for his own enjoyment, then why the fuck do some of you get upset about it?  His money, his time, his risk.  If you don't have constructive advice for him, like he requested, then don't post shit ripping him.

I don't think anyone is upset...  But the dude is fun to laugh at.

He deserves to be ripped because he made it very clear that he isn't interested in making any effort.  He doesn't want to "bother".  That includes, apparently, researching the many times this question has been asked in the past.  There are people who come here and are genuinely interested in making the effort to learn.  That's Not this dude.

He doesn't even want to do any practice shows.  That's just moronic.

His attitude, combined with his zero experience, suggests there is a chance he'll get caught and that is bad for everyone.

Why is it that if he gets caught it will be bad for everyone do you think they will torture him into letting them know about this place? Do you really think the security guards join T.S so they can find out where the stealth gear is hidden? You must think they have alot of spare time or care enough about there $12 per hour job..

This guy wanted some advice we gave it to him lets not kick the shit out of someone for starting out in this hobby and not knowing anything. Lets try and remember what stupid questions we asked when we started out. Maybe we can turn him into a productive taper who will not sell his recordings that to me seems more logical then beating up on him that seems to me to be more important in preventing problems for other tapers then just telling him how stupid he is... This elitist attitude is very sad this place is about helping the young guys out not laughing at them for not knowing as much as we do....

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2008, 11:43:43 AM »
This guy wanted some advice we gave it to him lets not kick the shit out of someone for starting out in this hobby and not knowing anything.

Saying it again: It is the lack of effort and lack of motivation.   You get out of it what you put into it.  He doesn't want to put anything into it.

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Offline newplanet7

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2008, 11:45:50 AM »
FYI,..My comments were directed at the kind of people who make the comments like the one(s) ealier in this thread.
I was merely stating that I have only grabbed a handful of stealth shows
that I was impressed with.
If you take that as a bad attitude, that's on you.
Most of the stuff I listen to is open taping.

Personally from the stuff I have grabbed the biggest issue is phasing/panning effect.
Whether its the moving of the head or people passing in front of you, I have no clue.
That ruins the tape for me. It's seems very common on stealth tapes that I've heard.

Also I do think open tapes sound better. Just my opinion of what I've heard.

People don't walk in front of you when you open tape? ::)
Thanks for the sarcasm.
I've not been a dick about anything in this thread or elite

I was stating that when one open tapes people walking in front of the taper doesn't cause any loss of sound because the mics are usually above the crowd.
When stealthing, you'd be wearing the mics on you're collar, in a hat, etc.....
Not above the crowd, so people that walk in front of you block sound.


Also I don't have any sort of hang up on stealth taping.
I open tape because that's the majority of what I listen to.
Being that, when I do listen to artist shows that I dig who aren't taper friendly and have to be
recorded on the hush, I don't think they come out nearly as good.

However, i think stealthing is just as valid as open.
It seems that you, nameloc, always try to bring it to open vs stealth tapers as a generality
in these threads.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 12:05:25 PM by newplanet7 »
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2008, 12:02:23 PM »
This guy wanted some advice we gave it to him lets not kick the shit out of someone for starting out in this hobby and not knowing anything.

Saying it again: It is the lack of effort and lack of motivation.   You get out of it what you put into it.  He doesn't want to put anything into it.

I think what happens is simple. People dont really realize how good the audio can be when its done right so they go on this journey of discovery. They buy a recorder and some of them think that the built in mics will work great. Then they discover they do not.. So at this point they will ether sell the recorder and never tape again or ask the next big question... How do I make my recordings sound better? That will get a huge range of answers..

1- Get a better recorder
2- Use external quality mics
3- Use a battery box or preamp
4- Learn about mic placement on the body.

If they make it past this phase they will be on the right path to better audio but for some people they just dont understand the mechanics of getting good sound and what is possible. Once they know that things can sound like a cd with good placement and a good sounding show they get bit by the "upgrade bug" Something most of you are very familiar with.

But not everyone gets to the same place at the same time and some never get why external mics and other gear is so important.. The Digital recording device companies have done a great job on advertising and convincing the novice recordists that all they need is the H2 or R09 and all his or her recording problems are over... Well we know that is simply not true, but I am pretty sure most of us learned that the hard way.

Its a great hobby where someone can spend as little as $250 and get some pretty good recordings or as much as $10,000 and get some really good recordings. There are no limits to the money that can be spent.

In the end the novice must ask them selves what do I want to accomplish with my recordings Great sound a true sense of being there or just a cheap reminder of the show? Unfortunately most of these guys and girls dont ask that question first and end up wasting alot of cash. But all of this is part of the learning process.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 12:04:17 PM by Church-Audio »
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nameloc01

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2008, 12:04:21 PM »
"I have one motto for taping, either do it properly or not at all.That's precisely why I don't mess around with "stealth" recording. >:DI've recorded a few shows in "stealth", so I can understand and respect the desire to do it. I mean; it's a little "f--k you to The Man""

I take your comment as , unless you're "open" taping, you're not doing it "right"...am I reading this wrong?

The majority of stealth tapers aren't doing as a big "fuck you" to anyone....they are doing it because it needs to get taped and people like you aren't gonna get it done. Bottom line.

Offline newplanet7

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2008, 12:07:29 PM »
"I have one motto for taping, either do it properly or not at all.That's precisely why I don't mess around with "stealth" recording. >:DI've recorded a few shows in "stealth", so I can understand and respect the desire to do it. I mean; it's a little "f--k you to The Man""

I take your comment as , unless you're "open" taping, you're not doing it "right"...am I reading this wrong?

The majority of stealth tapers aren't doing as a big "fuck you" to anyone....they are doing it because it needs to get taped and people like you aren't gonna get it done. Bottom line.
That would be jacobmeyers not me.

Here's where I stand just like stated above.

Also I don't have any sort of hang up on stealth taping.
I open tape because that's the majority of what I listen to.
Being that, when I do listen to artist shows that I dig who aren't taper friendly and have to be
recorded on the hush, I don't think they come out nearly as good.

However, i think stealthing is just as valid as open.
It seems that you, nameloc, always try to bring it to open vs stealth tapers as a generality
in these threads.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2008, 12:10:48 PM by newplanet7 »
MILAB VM-44 Classic~> Silver T's~> Busman PMD660
News From Phish: Will tour as opening act for Widespread Panic for Summer
hahaha never happen, PHiSH is waaaaayyyy better the WSP

They both ain't got nothing on MMW... Money spent wisely if you ask me...


FYI, it is a kick ass recording of a bunch of pretend-a-hippies talking.

 

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