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Author Topic: Schoeps & Neumann active cables  (Read 6088 times)

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Offline One Cylinder

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Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« on: November 12, 2011, 07:41:04 AM »
For those of you who run active cables between your mic capsules and bodies - do you detach the caps (and bodies) from the active cables after each show, or do you usually leave the caps attached to the cables? Depending on how often you tape, I would think twisting the caps on & off the cables at every show could take a toll on the capsules' threads. If you are taping a couple shows a month, and always running the same set of caps, is it a good idea (necessary?) to detach the caps from the cables after each concert?

TIA


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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2011, 10:21:18 AM »
I rarely if ever disconnect my caps/bodies/cables/etc if I can help it, but my remote/active mics have passive cables and non-funky connections so it's economical to get a new set of cables made. What I've done is the cable elements I've split so I have a set of caps with a 18" cable behind it and then a connector. I get to the show and I dig out the other 9' or so and connect it to that 18" which already has the capsule attached. The link to the bodies and the link between the bodies and recorder are left attached, so the only thing I have that gets a connect/disconnect wear is that new connection between two cables. I did this so that I could just replace those cables instead of sending the capsules/bodies back to repair a bad pin or connector (which I thought would cost more).

Now, with schoeps, the most expensive piece of the cable is the end connectors, so you can do this, but you'll have to buy new end connectors for each cap and most won't do that.
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2011, 11:11:08 AM »
For those of you who run active cables between your mic capsules and bodies - do you detach the caps (and bodies) from the active cables after each show, or do you usually leave the caps attached to the cables? Depending on how often you tape, I would think twisting the caps on & off the cables at every show could take a toll on the capsules' threads. If you are taping a couple shows a month, and always running the same set of caps, is it a good idea (necessary?) to detach the caps from the cables after each concert?

TIA

Seems most folks do not detach.  I just got an active setup for my Schoeps, and just put them in the bag in windscreens like a lot of guys do. That seemed to work fine. The threads are so fine, I really don't want to do more screwing and unscrewing than I have to, but I still probably will as I'm out 2-3 times a week and changing setup a lot. 

I think what I will eventually do is get a cigar caddy and cut holes in it so I can stick the cap and housing in the cigar caddy and just have the cables trailing out.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Offline One Cylinder

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 12:00:59 PM »
[Seems most folks do not detach.  I just got an active setup for my Schoeps, and just put them in the bag in windscreens like a lot of guys do. That seemed to work fine. The threads are so fine, I really don't want to do more screwing and unscrewing than I have to, but I still probably will as I'm out 2-3 times a week and changing setup a lot. 

>>>> Thanks for the feedback. I figured most people were just leaving the caps screwed in. What about the bodies - do you remove those post-show? Post-show breakdown sure was a lot easier when I had my pair of CCM4s with the fixed cables. At the end of a show I'd pop the windscreens on the mics, coil up the cables, and put the whole sheebang in a small circular tupperware container. Toss that sucker in my backback with my preamp & DAT deck and I was good to go. Sung as a bug in a rug and the whole process took less than 2 minutes!   ;D



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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2011, 11:23:22 PM »
I leave EVERYTHING plugged in except my M10 and batteries ;) My mics are connected to the KCY Cable, which is connected to my Sonosax. The mk41s are on my DINa Bar, and a windtech shockmount is attached to that :)
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2011, 02:23:41 PM »
Just as one more data point, after I tear down a recording setup, I put the capsules and accessories away separately when I get back home. This is largely because I use a variety of different capsules and accessories, which I combine differently for different recording situations. When the time comes to pack for the next recording, I don't want to have to take anything apart just so that I can put some other combination of items together.

To anyone who has done any troubleshooting or repair of audio systems, it's well known that a certain percentage of problems clear themselves up if the user simply disconnects and then reconnects everything. Whenever a fresh connection is made between a pair of sliding metal electrical contacts, the friction causes the contacts to be "wiped" and even worn down to a very slight degree--so in most cases you create a more reliable, lower-impedance connection that way. It can be the cheapest way to make an old system sound new again.

The big exception, of course, is if one of the cables or connectors is defective--in which case the "disconnect and reconnect" approach can drive the system in the direction of lower reliability or even outright failure. That should be rare with professional quality equipment that is in general good repair, however.

--best regards
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 02:29:27 PM by DSatz »
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Offline John Willett

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2011, 06:06:05 AM »
I'm with DSatz on this one - I always disconnect and put away separately.

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2011, 08:15:38 AM »
I set up prior to going into the field and break down when I return.   You have a greater chance of loosing or damaging something when you are in a rush to hit record (especially in the dark).

I always store everything in their designed storage components (viels and wooden boxes)
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2011, 09:39:45 AM »
I think there are two issues here:

1. How best to transport gear to and from the venue in such a way that (a) everything arrives safely and in goof working condition, and (b) that set-up and take-down can happen as quickly as possible.

2. How best to store gear when not in use such that it retains its functionality and value.

I store my schoeps caps in their vials. Foam disintegrates, and schoeps makes a perfect solution for the storing of caps. Additionally, the kcy cable comes with protectors for the collette ends.

However, the day before the show, I connect the capsules, hook everything up, make sure it works and then pack the bag like Bean does.

At the show the clamp goes on the stand, the mic caplues (connected to the kcy) go on the clamp, and I press record.

After the show, the whole mic array goes in to the bag.

When I get home, (as long as there is no show the next night) everything gets put away in its prober place for storage.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
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Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 12:23:05 PM »
I was of the "keep everything connected, keep windscreens in place, just stow it in the bag" crowd for a while.  Now I've gotten in the habit of stowing the capsules in vials, avoiding over exposure to windscreen crumbs.  The threads "feel good" and I'm not particularly worried about cross-threading them.

What I find "nerve-racking" is attaching bodies to my KC5 cables.  These bodies/KC5's feel funny to me as they go together and I don't like it.  There is a certain amount of friction as they go together and I'm afraid if I ever got them cross threaded, I wouldn't notice until significant damage was done.  The bottom line is I like to keep these together.
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 10:37:54 PM »
And I can setup/teardown VERY quickly ;)
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 11:11:23 PM »
SmokinJoe, I understand your not wanting to cross-thread the capsules, but that's very unlikely to occur unless you use considerable twisting force, which I'm sure you wouldn't do.

There's a general technique for getting a threaded capsule on straight, which I hope I'm not insulting anyone by spelling it out: Place the two items together initially as straight-on as you can, but don't rotate the capsule in either direction at first. Then gently press the capsule toward the cable (or amplifier/body) while turning the capsule carefully in the "wrong" direction, as if to loosen it even though it isn't screwed on at all. Within half a turn or so you should feel a distinct little "click"--then start turning the capsule in the right direction to tighten it, and you should find that it is lined up perfectly.

--best regards
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 11:42:26 PM by DSatz »
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 11:16:32 PM »
SmokinJoe, I understand not wanting to cross-thread the capsules, but that's very unlikely to occur unless you use considerable twisting force, which I'm sure you wouldn't do.

There's a general technique for getting a threaded capsule on straight, which I hope I'm not insulting anyone by spelling it out: Place the two items together initially as straight-on as you can, but don't rotate the capsule in either direction at first. Then gently press the capsule toward the cable (or amplifier/body) while turning the capsule carefully in the "wrong" direction, as if to loosen it even though it isn't screwed on at all. Within half a turn or so you should feel a distinct little "click"--then start turning the capsule in the right direction to tighten it, and you should find that it is lined up perfectly.

--best regards

Right - Scott at Redding showed me this method as well - works great! 

Even before this I have been running actives for almost ten years with no issues - hundreds of shows - I have only heard of one/two incedents of a threading issue occur with any mics over my tenure and in those cases the person involved was far from sober.
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 11:35:08 PM »
I think the choice to store them detached or not should simply be a factor of how often you tape. If you are taping more than 1-2 times per month, I think it's better to leave them attached between shows. That's a lot of wear and tear on the threads and I have personally seen very old collettes where the threads have become brittle and chipped. They are not indestructible and, as stated many times on these forums, the capsules are far less fragile than one would think. Should you leave them always stored in windscreens? Absolutely not. But to say that the amount of particulate matter they will be exposed to when stored in a pelican (with good foam or no foam) or Tupperware would degrade their performance is a pretty large stretch. If you tape less frequently, I'd probably go with vials inside a pelican.

The two things I would be most concerned about are impact damage (i.e. dropping them) or liquid damage. Every time you screw and unscrew them, you are risking that your hands will slip and they will fall. Liquid damage is pretty easy to prevent against by storing them in a watertight case. Both of these are preventable by simply placing them into a pelican immediately on tear down.

I suppose the moral of this story is... try your best not to drop them into your beer at the show.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2011, 03:04:38 AM »
SmokinJoe, I understand your not wanting to cross-thread the capsules, but that's very unlikely to occur unless you use considerable twisting force, which I'm sure you wouldn't do.

There's a general technique for getting a threaded capsule on straight, which I hope I'm not insulting anyone by spelling it out: Place the two items together initially as straight-on as you can, but don't rotate the capsule in either direction at first. Then gently press the capsule toward the cable (or amplifier/body) while turning the capsule carefully in the "wrong" direction, as if to loosen it even though it isn't screwed on at all. Within half a turn or so you should feel a distinct little "click"--then start turning the capsule in the right direction to tighten it, and you should find that it is lined up perfectly.

--best regards

I
I think the choice to store them detached or not should simply be a factor of how often you tape. If you are taping more than 1-2 times per month, I think it's better to leave them attached between shows. That's a lot of wear and tear on the threads and I have personally seen very old collettes where the threads have become brittle and chipped. They are not indestructible and, as stated many times on these forums, the capsules are far less fragile than one would think. Should you leave them always stored in windscreens? Absolutely not. But to say that the amount of particulate matter they will be exposed to when stored in a pelican (with good foam or no foam) or Tupperware would degrade their performance is a pretty large stretch. If you tape less frequently, I'd probably go with vials inside a pelican.

The two things I would be most concerned about are impact damage (i.e. dropping them) or liquid damage. Every time you screw and unscrew them, you are risking that your hands will slip and they will fall. Liquid damage is pretty easy to prevent against by storing them in a watertight case. Both of these are preventable by simply placing them into a pelican immediately on tear down.

I suppose the moral of this story is... try your best not to drop them into your beer at the show.

I have been using that technique since I got my 480s back in '99 :) Makes me feel ALOT SAFER when threading them on/off :)

Or coca-cola for us sober tapirs ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
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Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2011, 01:28:29 PM »
I leave mine connected and gently coiled inside the hat. 
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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 04:05:35 PM »
Based on my personal experience, if I ever own actives again I'll detach for sure if my capsules are Nextel gray.  If they're nickel, I'd say it doesn't matter as much.

I made the mistake of leaving my brand new Nextel MK22's attached and, even as little bumping around as happens in storage, they chipped.  Not only that, but the MK22's have a very sensitive screen on the end that WILL 100% FOR SURE get dented if you don't detach (unless you keep a screen on them at all times).  This isn't a problem for the other caps, but chipping of the nextel finish is a real problem.

In the end, since I didn't detach, it ended up costing me AT LEAST $200 because they had enough chipping and end screen denting that's the hit I took on those capsules when I sold them.

I'll never own Nextel Grey again, but if I did, I'll absolutely never leave them attached again.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2011, 07:59:46 PM »
Based on my personal experience, if I ever own actives again I'll detach for sure if my capsules are Nextel gray.  If they're nickel, I'd say it doesn't matter as much.

I made the mistake of leaving my brand new Nextel MK22's attached and, even as little bumping around as happens in storage, they chipped.  Not only that, but the MK22's have a very sensitive screen on the end that WILL 100% FOR SURE get dented if you don't detach (unless you keep a screen on them at all times).  This isn't a problem for the other caps, but chipping of the nextel finish is a real problem.

In the end, since I didn't detach, it ended up costing me AT LEAST $200 because they had enough chipping and end screen denting that's the hit I took on those capsules when I sold them.

I'll never own Nextel Grey again, but if I did, I'll absolutely never leave them attached again.

I havent had ANY problems w/ my grey mk41 and its still in MINT condition. But they ALWAYS have screens on them :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2011, 08:31:02 PM »
Yeah Bean.  I wouldn't go as far as to suggest that others shouldn't buy Nextel.  It's just that with my own negative experience, I choose nickel from here on out if I have a choice.  I think people should be aware that the Nextel finish will chip and it doesn't take much for it to happen.

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2011, 12:50:40 PM »
To re-iterate what I said... I have no problems with the capsules.

It's attaching KC5's to the bodies that is sketchy.  In essence the body and cable meet and there is an outer ring which screws on the body, which is separate from the connectors.  I'm not saying it is easy to cross thread, just that (at least on the particular pieces I own) there is a certain amount of friction as the outer ring rotates on the cable end, so it's not really noticeable whether you are really engaged or not.
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2011, 01:38:14 PM »
Since the capsule to body interface does not have the issue, we can assume it is the kc5.  The body threads are probably fine.

I suspect it is either a "ding" in the threads, or corrosion.  I would examine the kc5 threads with a good magnifier - 10X or so - to see if you can find any damage.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 08:30:13 AM »
SmokinJoe, sorry I didn't read your message carefully enough at first. The end of a Schoeps Colette cable that attaches to the microphone body has a larger diameter than the capsule end, and thus more leverage when you turn it. I agree that the risk of cross-threading is greater there. Also, what you're turning is a kind of collar that has some "play" in it with respect to the rest of the piece you're holding at that point, so the tactile feedback is less definite.

The trick that I described earlier, rotating first in the "loosening" direction before you tighten, still applies here, though it's a little less straightforward. You have to put a bit of pressure on the mike body so that it's pushing into the Colette cable's connector. Then you can feel the "cogging"--the little bump that occurs--when you rotate the connector's collar past the start of the thread.

--best regards

P.S.: In reply to some other messages I'm going to risk being undiplomatic here: I've been using Nextel-finish microphones and capsules since Schoeps started offering them, and I disagree with the claims that this finish is fragile. If you're chipping the finish, especially repeatedly, then maybe you need to be paying a little closer attention to what you're doing when you're handling the microphones. Sure, accidents happen, and a microphone that's been used hundreds or thousands of times won't look perfectly new any more. But there's a certain level of reasonable care that's appropriate when using these items, and some people may not have found that level yet, or may not be looking for it, I dunno. Most of all I recommend the judicious application of a single-tasking mindset when setting up and tearing down.
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Schoeps & Neumann active cables
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2011, 09:36:01 AM »
I've always had some nickle envy.

I think it comes down to similarly used nickle finish caps looking better than similarly used nextel or painted caps.  I assume that from my experience with bicycles and a wide range of other products.

The coarse matte texture of nextel grey is prone to accumulate oil and dirt from fingers, even if you aren't eating fries while changing caps.  It is also prone to wear while sliding in and out of mounts.  I see that in photos of caps and mics.

I'd order nickle if I had a 'do-over'. On the other hand, the grey has an advantage for the buyer - if the mic has been roughly handled, etc, it'll show!  Dave, do you know if the schoeps nickle is paint, plated, or something else?

My nextel grey caps look great, but I've been really careful.  I am sometimes surprised by the photos posted in the Yard of caps described as 'excellent condition' that actually have nicks around the corners, etc.

 

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