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Author Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)  (Read 109866 times)

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Offline Joshua_G

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2015, 10:38:53 AM »
Personally I'm more interested in the way audio gear sounds than in the way it measures (as long as it measures acceptably). Though some may think that I only think what I hear, from experience I do know that I hear what I hear, thus I trust my ears.
However since the debate between 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists' is never ending, I'd rather not continue the present discussion.

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2015, 10:53:41 AM »
Personally I'm more interested in the way audio gear sounds than in the way it measures (as long as it measures acceptably). Though some may think that I only think what I hear, from experience I do know that I hear what I hear, thus I trust my ears.
However since the debate between 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists' is never ending, I'd rather not continue the present discussion.

That debate is misplaced here - the variables are more controlled. Its lot like we're comparing different brands or products.

I dont see it as "sounds better" contest - I like "here's whats different"

Surely the chip specs are known/knowable.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2015, 11:53:51 AM »
Personally I'm more interested in the way audio gear sounds than in the way it measures (as long as it measures acceptably). Though some may think that I only think what I hear, from experience I do know that I hear what I hear, thus I trust my ears.
However since the debate between 'objectivists' and 'subjectivists' is never ending, I'd rather not continue the present discussion.

That debate is misplaced here - the variables are more controlled. Its lot like we're comparing different brands or products.

I dont see it as "sounds better" contest - I like "here's whats different"

Surely the chip specs are known/knowable.
Exactly where I'm coming from.  And people performing such mods could at minimum publish measurements of units before and after modification even if they didn't disclose the exact parts used or how they were implemented.
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2015, 12:07:34 PM »
IMO.. a mod is purely for better sound...  what a person percieves as better sound is up to each listener. 
It doesn't matter what parts are used..  it just matters at the ending result of listening.
That's why our friendly "modders" create different "flavors".  So the user/listener can decide which way they'd like to go with their sound.
To me, modding is a sort of magic..........   take a stock unit and make it sound more musical to satisfy certain tastes of sound.
I don't think any modders should be required to publish what parts they are using/swapping or what they are doing...  only describe what the resulting sound ends up to be.

As a 70D owner, it's blowing me away at how much chatter this thing is creating.
Seems to be a nice little box...  but I haven't used it enough yet for full judgement.
For a 300 dollar unit with a dropping price, I can't imagine that it will get much support/updates..  but who knows....  the possibility is there!
There are some details that I would like chaged/added if possible.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline pdxdanmusic

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2015, 01:12:42 PM »
I've known Chris for ages and attended many shows with him. We talk about him trying to mod my UA-25 years ago and he offered to do it for my mics. I looked at his website and I would think the mod would be similar to this one.

Tascam DR-680
$300.00 for 6 channels
This modification provides much better detail and natural sound than the stock unit. All of the njm4580 op amps are changed out for high speed, extremly low noise op amps. The input capacitors are changed out for better values that allow for great bass response with an open sound and smooth high end that has excellent detail. This modification lowers the noise floor in the high gain setting by over -8db. The modifications will work very well in a huge variety of applications including nature recording, film, and music. I offer new units with all 6 channels modified for $900..
These come with a 2 year warranty on my modifications.
6 channels = $300
4 channels = $225
2 channels = $175

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2015, 05:57:24 PM »
Wonder why Tascam didn't include higher end preamps and capacitors in the factory unit.  Buying in the quantities they buy and having these installed at the factory wouldn't have added much to the production cost. 

Offline voltronic

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2015, 08:13:21 PM »
Wonder why Tascam didn't include higher end preamps and capacitors in the factory unit.  Buying in the quantities they buy and having these installed at the factory wouldn't have added much to the production cost.
I believe it's been said here at some point that the opamps are the same as in the DR-680, so Tascam would already consider them pretty high quality.

As to your second point, maybe in a couple years if/when they release a MKII...
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Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2015, 08:30:34 PM »
DR-680 has the NJM4580s throughout. 

DR-70D has the better NE5532s, with a couple 4580s as well.

DR-70D stock has better opamps than the stock 680.

I would imagine that Tascam is trying to increase their profit margin by whatever means necessary within such an economical unit.  When you are dealing with the quantity that they produce, from a financial standpoint, a .30 opamp vs. a $3 one would save quite a bit of money in the long run.  If people are happy with the quality for the most part with the lower quality opamp why would they chance it?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 08:34:40 PM by Cheesecadet »
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Offline pdxdanmusic

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2015, 08:53:21 PM »
What I was trying to show is that Oade, Busman and others will do pretty much the same mods. They will describe similar results because that is what tapers are looking for. Reverse engineering to improve on the concept is fairly easy. Having the skills to do it is another story.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2015, 10:10:30 PM »
I'm not sure why they would keep the components to themselves since not just anyone can install them.  If I pay for a mod, I'd like to know what I'm getting besides a generic description of improved sound quality. 

Offline H₂O

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2015, 10:23:10 PM »
It's called secret sauce - the Oade's always covered their circuits in glue - same with Aereco, and I would bet the nboxes

Once you pull back the curtain much of it will be the same and/or easily copied
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 08:07:54 AM by H₂O »
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2015, 12:15:21 AM »
^my aerco mp-2 was not covered in "glue"...  but nbox+ was.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2015, 08:29:38 AM »
It's called secret sauce - the Oade's always covered their circuits in glue - same with Aereco, and I would bet the nboxes

Once you pull back the curtain much of it will be the same and/or easily copied

For sure.  Everyone (literally) in the the business world tries to differentiate their product from all of the rest and even when there is no difference, they'll differentiate with intangibles like better service.  You'd be an idiot if you gave away specialty knowledge for free if that's what you do for a living. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 08:31:29 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline Joshua_G

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #88 on: May 04, 2015, 10:09:06 AM »
Wonder why Tascam didn't include higher end preamps and capacitors in the factory unit.  Buying in the quantities they buy and having these installed at the factory wouldn't have added much to the production cost.
For one thing, most manufacturers aren't dealing with, or aren't concerned with, subjective sound quality. This is because only a small minority of their customers is interested in subjective sound quality. (Most consumers of portable recorders are interested in measurement more than in subjective sound quality).

Second, for a manufacturer to stay in business there must be some minimum ratio between production costs and MSRP. Let's assume here that this minimum ratio is 5 (often this is the actual ratio). That means that any additional $1 in production will be reflected as additional $5 in MSRP.

Now, considering the cost of only the OpAmp chips (we don't know what capacitors are replaced and their cost), the NJM4580 costs $0.225 for 2,000 pieces, the NE5532 costs $0.372 for 2,500 pieces and the LME49720 $1.23 for 2,500 pieces.

In the DR-70D there are 2 NJM4580 and 3 NE5532, which cost $1.566 for all 5 OpAmps. 5 x LME49720 cost $6.15. The difference is $4.584 in production costs, which need to be reflected as additional $22.92 at least in MSRP, or additional 7.66% of the present $300 MSRP. Replacing also capacitors will come up even higher, though we don't know by how much.

As long as there is no widespread demand from consumers, most manufacturers wouldn't increase to product's cost by 7.66% without a very good commercial reason.

For a DIY mod'er, LME49720 costs $3.16 (in small quantities), which is $15.8 for the 5 OpAmps. (A charge of $100 or $200 for such a mod by a pro mod'er looks to me reasonable, because of the time and the work involved, on top of the skill, expertize and know-how).

It looks like the majority of the people purchasing Tascam portable recorders are satisfied with the products as they are; only very small percentage of consumers are interested in subjective sound quality and hence are willing to pay extra for the mods. The Tascam DR-70D is being marketed as "Linear PCM recorder for DSLR" - a market of very little demand for subjective high sound quality. Those pros who are interested in subjective high sound quality would probably turn to products of Sound Devices, Nagra etc.

It looks like we (amateurs, or not full-fledged pros) are lucky to have products like the Tascam portable recorders, or mixers/recorders, at a very reasonable price and with adequate subjective sound quality of stock products.

As for Tascam coming with DR-60D MKII, assuming they did there what they did with the DR-70D, that is, replacing 3 of the NJM4580 OpAmps with NE5532 ones, here there is additional $0.441 in production cost, or additional $2.205 in MSRP, or an addition of 2.2%, which is really very little. When the sales of certain model start to decline, there is very good commercial reason to add very little to the production costs and come up with improved MKII.

(The above is derived from my experience working for electronics production company).
(Please excuse my English, it isn't my first language).

Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 3)
« Reply #89 on: May 04, 2015, 10:10:09 AM »
It's called secret sauce - the Oade's always covered their circuits in glue - same with Aereco, and I would bet the nboxes

Once you pull back the curtain much of it will be the same and/or easily copied

For sure.  Everyone (literally) in the the business world tries to differentiate their product from all of the rest and even when there is no difference, they'll differentiate with intangibles like better service.  You'd be an idiot if you gave away specialty knowledge for free if that's what you do for a living.

Agreed.  I don't think JW really gave a crap about such an inexpensive unit.  He is not currently doing the mods anyway as he has too much going on with his core business which, I assume, is a lot more lucrative.
AKG 481's, DPA 4061's (Matched), AT ES933's w/ AT853-ELE's (SC/C/O), ECM-19B's, MixPre-3, A10, M10 x 2, Hi Ho Silvers, Various Darktrain & GAKables

Vinyl:
Fluance RT83 Reference > MCS 3230 Receiver > Realistic MC-500's (NOS)

Upcoming:
04/22 Howie Day
05/04 Harry Mack (?)
05/10 Adam Bodine Quartet
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06/19 Sensational Barnes Brothers
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07/19 Chali 2na & Cut Chemist
07/30 Tomorrows Bad Seeds

 

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