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Poll

Which file's sound do you prefer?

"file 1"
9 (23.1%)
"file 2"
23 (59%)
No difference or equal quality
7 (17.9%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp  (Read 6685 times)

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Offline jbell

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2018, 09:40:38 AM »
Any chance of getting a pm with source info??
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2018, 10:03:08 AM »
Any chance of getting a pm with source info??

pm sent.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline jbell

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2018, 10:27:24 AM »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline yug du nord

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2018, 12:11:30 AM »
#2 for me...  smoother, better balanced.
#1 seems a bit harsh on the top end to me. 
At least to my ears.
Both sound good on their own..  but in a comp...  I go #2.
Thanks for the efforts!
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline yug du nord

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2018, 12:49:08 AM »
Out of curiosity, how high were the mikes raised on the stand?
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline kuba e

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2018, 05:23:59 PM »
I'm surprised to hear the difference. I am an ordinary, low-cost listener. I did not expect I am able to hear difference between these two high-quality preamps. Did it really not affect the microphones or its configuration, for example a slightly different angle? Did you try to switch the microphones to the opposite preamp during a concert? I only ask because I am really surprised. I prefer #1. I thought the main emphasis was to make these expensive preamps neutral. But maybe it has some limits.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 05:32:35 PM by kuba e »

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2018, 06:17:44 PM »
Out of curiosity, how high were the mikes raised on the stand?

I think about 8-9 feet.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2018, 06:20:09 PM »
I'm surprised to hear the difference. I am an ordinary, low-cost listener. I did not expect I am able to hear difference between these two high-quality preamps. Did it really not affect the microphones or its configuration, for example a slightly different angle? Did you try to switch the microphones to the opposite preamp during a concert? I only ask because I am really surprised. I prefer #1. I thought the main emphasis was to make these expensive preamps neutral. But maybe it has some limits.

Everything else in the chain (microphones, nbob actives, PFA) was identical. And we used the same fixed angle bars, pictures of which are linked on the first page of the thread. The microphones were inches apart from one another on the stand.

As noted above, this is about as perfect a comp as you are going to find, unless you actually split the signal of a single pair of transducers.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline nak700s

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2018, 03:45:43 PM »
Out of curiosity, how high were the mikes raised on the stand?

I think about 8-9 feet.

I think they were closer to 12-13 feet.  Remember, we were already about 3 feet up before affixing the stands to the rail.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2018, 05:57:51 PM »
Just found this thread, somehow had missed it until now.

I like sample 1 slightly better.. at least at work through AT in-ears plugged straight into the computer.  Interesting that after voting and viewing the results it appears sample 1 is the underdog by a significant margin.  Should be interesting to re-listen at home though through a few sets of high-quality headphones at lease.  My big-speaker playback system remains packed away since the hurricane threat here last fall.  Will report back if that changes my judgment.

Thanks for the comp!
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline wforwumbo

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2018, 12:31:19 PM »
I suspect it’s probably time to reveal which source is which, but I’ll leave that to Noah’s discretion. Is there anyone that hasn’t had time to A/B the recordings that wants to?
2x Schoeps mk21 (matched pair) -> nbob KCY -> Naiant PFA -> Sound Devices Mixpre 6

Offline noahbickart

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2018, 12:53:10 PM »
I suspect it’s probably time to reveal which source is which, but I’ll leave that to Noah’s discretion. Is there anyone that hasn’t had time to A/B the recordings that wants to?

People have been PMing me, and I've been responding in kind.

I'm inclined to keep it that way in the hopes that people will continue to vote blind.

36 votes and counting.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2018, 04:04:54 PM »
Okay, reporting back as promised.. [no spoilers]

I'll post the subjective assessment I shared with Noah and Nick after a second listen at home through my "good 'phones", even though it didn't change the initial judgement I posted above-

I still prefer file 1.  It has better sense of spatial clarity, separation of sources, and initial transient edges.  File 2 is less 3-dimensional and more homogeneous.  I confirmed this subjective assessment and preference through rapid A/B switching while listening critically, and also though more casual longer-term listening, the latter consisting of both focused listening as well as distracted "background music" listening.   I end up with the same preference for file 1 in all cases.  It's not earth-shattering, but a significant enough difference which I quickly became well-enough adapted to that I could pretty rapidly identify which was which correctly each time upon randomizing the stimulus.   The more I listened the easier it became to confirm a preference for file 1.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline adrianf74

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2018, 03:23:19 PM »
I listened to the two files again after voting for file 2.  I still prefer 2 for the over all recording but I found the vocals on file 1 to be a little more present.   I listened a few different ways (headphones with a GeekOut 450 DA on my laptop, on my Marantz stereo (with satellite speakers) and on my laptop with its crappy speakers.  I felt the same way listening each way.

Suffice to say, both recordings are excellent and the difference between the two recordings is minimal to me.  I'll still standby saying I like file 2 better "as a whole."

Offline MattH

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Re: mk22> Sonosax SX-R4 VS. mk22> SD Mixpre6 Comp
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2018, 09:21:01 PM »
I already voted and preferred sample 1 but was curious if both pairs used the same large DPA windscreens and which pair was in front of or higher/lower than the other.
mics: Soundfield ST450, JW mod Milab VIP-50's, Milab VM-44 Links (Matched Cards, Matched S-Cards), BR mod Nak 700's
pre's: Audio Developments AD 066(11), V2, Littlebox, Tinybox, Reutelhuber
recorders: Sonosax SX-R4, Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Tascam DR-2, Mackie DL32R
playback: Teac UD-501 DAC > Meyer Sound

 

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