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Author Topic: Mixpre-6, M/S recording  (Read 1864 times)

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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2018, 11:15:33 AM »
I record MS every time I run my mixpre6 and always run them as unlinked channels.  I have the CCM4 version to listen to on the way home and have my headphone output to do so.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10

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Online rippleish20

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2018, 12:52:58 PM »

I get the general idea but based on responses, is this correct?

If I  link the channels as linked m/s   the device would handle the flipped of the phase, etc on the spot. You then use one (the even number?) channel to adjust trim and the other channel to adjust stereo width. If I had a MK8 and a MK41 and wanted to record raw, I just keep them as separate channels and record normally as ISOs - yes? With this scenario I would then need to do the flipped of the phase, etc? Or does the DAW do it?
MK22's / MK41's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63, ck8 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers  / DPA 4061's
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (Nbob for sale) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2018, 01:26:04 PM »
(I've been using this: https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/VUMTdeluxe/VUMTdeluxe.php)

Interesting looking plugins, will have to check them out when I get my editing machine operational again. You're using the one you linked to for M/S re-adjustment?  The only part of the VUMT deluxe description which seems applicable is it's Mono Maker function for narrowing the stereo image below a certain frequency.  Does it also includes full range M/S adjustment capability which isn't mentioned there?  Or do you just crank up the threshold frequency of the Mono Maker to full range? And if so does the range of control allow widening as well as narrowing?

If you look, you can see that you can toggle such that the L/R gain controls can be used as m/s. I'll attach a screenshot.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2018, 01:27:44 PM »

I get the general idea but based on responses, is this correct?

If I  link the channels as linked m/s   the device would handle the flipped of the phase, etc on the spot. You then use one (the even number?) channel to adjust trim and the other channel to adjust stereo width. If I had a MK8 and a MK41 and wanted to record raw, I just keep them as separate channels and record normally as ISOs - yes? With this scenario I would then need to do the flipped of the phase, etc? Or does the DAW do it?

If you link them as m/s, the machine does the decoding and records ISOs as L and R.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2018, 01:40:01 PM »

I get the general idea but based on responses, is this correct?

If I  link the channels as linked m/s   the device would handle the flipped of the phase, etc on the spot. You then use one (the even number?) channel to adjust trim and the other channel to adjust stereo width. If I had a MK8 and a MK41 and wanted to record raw, I just keep them as separate channels and record normally as ISOs - yes? With this scenario I would then need to do the flipped of the phase, etc? Or does the DAW do it?

If you link them as m/s, the machine does the decoding and records ISOs as L and R.

Noah are the ISOs still M and S or a mixed down version?
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10

http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2018, 02:13:17 PM »

I get the general idea but based on responses, is this correct?

If I  link the channels as linked m/s   the device would handle the flipped of the phase, etc on the spot. You then use one (the even number?) channel to adjust trim and the other channel to adjust stereo width. If I had a MK8 and a MK41 and wanted to record raw, I just keep them as separate channels and record normally as ISOs - yes? With this scenario I would then need to do the flipped of the phase, etc? Or does the DAW do it?

If you link them as m/s, the machine does the decoding and records ISOs as L and R.

Noah are the ISOs still M and S or a mixed down version?

If you record “normally” the m and s are recorded as such. M in channel
1 and S in channel 2.

If you record in m/s mode the decoded l and r are recorded.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2018, 02:37:25 PM »

If you record “normally” the m and s are recorded as such. M in channel
1 and S in channel 2.

If you record in m/s mode the decoded l and r are recorded.

Thank you, that is why I record M to L and S to R and have not tried the M/S link yet.  Now I know not to.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10

http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 03:26:33 PM »
Ah now I see, thanks Noah.

If I had a MK8 and a MK41 and wanted to record raw, I just keep them as separate channels and record normally as ISOs - yes? With this scenario I would then need to do the flipped of the phase, etc? Or does the DAW do it?

If you aren't using the recorder's Mid/Side recording mode and record each channel directly, you'll record ISO Mid and Side channels.

The three primary options for converting from the ISO Mid and Side recorded channels are to-

1) Use the recorders Mid/Side playback or monitoring mode to listen to or otherwise output L/R.
2) Use a plugin or the built-in Mid/Side conversion features of a software editor to convert to L/R.
3) Use an analog mixing desk or software multitrack editor to manually convert to L/R by:
 Bringing up a copy of the raw Side channel in a second channel strip, inverting polarity on that channel, panning the non-inverted Side copy hard left and the polarity-inverted copy hard right, linking the two Side channel levels so their faders move in unison, bringing up the Mid channel on a third channel strip panned to center, and adjusting the Mid/Side ratio via the relative positions of the single Mid fader and the two linked-Side faders.

You only need to do the polarity-flip thing with the third option.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 04:27:01 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2018, 03:39:36 PM »
1) Use the recorders Mid/Side playback or monitoring mode to listen to or otherwise output L/R.

Does the MixPre-6 have a Mid-Side playback feature?  Where I record M to L and S to R and I can mix it for playback on the ride home?  If so this is news to me.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10

http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline kindms

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2018, 03:46:35 PM »
It appears you can do it via the headset settings. And I did read about the odd versus even channel notion. It also looks like if you just record the raw channels you have to do something like invert the phase of the side recording or something like that. I can see its going to take some learning...

I use this video ALL THE TIME because Ill confuse myself and hey I'm burnt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOBRx7zGzw

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Online rippleish20

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2018, 03:52:01 PM »
It appears you can do it via the headset settings. And I did read about the odd versus even channel notion. It also looks like if you just record the raw channels you have to do something like invert the phase of the side recording or something like that. I can see its going to take some learning...

I use this video ALL THE TIME because Ill confuse myself and hey I'm burnt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOBRx7zGzw

Mid Side in Audacity

Visuals help me as Im burnt also  :cheers:
MK22's / MK41's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63, ck8 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers  / DPA 4061's
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (Nbob for sale) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mixpre-6, M/S recording
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2018, 05:06:56 PM »
1) Use the recorders Mid/Side playback or monitoring mode to listen to or otherwise output L/R.

Does the MixPre-6 have a Mid-Side playback feature?  Where I record M to L and S to R and I can mix it for playback on the ride home?  If so this is news to me.

Noah confirmed so via the headphone output, not sure about the line-out.  I'd imagine so as all other recorders I can think of which have a Mid/Side mode can do so.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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