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Author Topic: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB  (Read 2272 times)

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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 06:42:33 PM »
But enough talk, who's got schoeps caps and a preamp they'd like to do a blind test with? I'll provide the kcy, extension cables and a mixpre6!

Can't you comp your littlebox against your mixpre-6?

Not without multiple pairs of the same capsule. I suppose I could do mono comparisons.

Or just do what I do when I'm trying to decide about what gear to keep and what to sell...use the opener at a show you're taping.  Record a song or two with one piece of gear and then swap.  People will of course comment about the validity of the comp, but that's true of just about every comp that's done.  It's still a comparison that legit conclusions can be gathered from.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2018, 11:43:35 PM »
larrysellers, I recently bought a used VMS 02 IB on this board and sent it to Schoeps for checkout and repair; they returned it last week with two things fixed (one electronic, one mechanical). So they do still repair these at least some of the time. There may be some things they can't fix any more, I dunno, like if you run over it with a steamroller and then ask them to replace 100% of the parts. But there isn't a total ban to be sure.

--About preamp sound: I don't hear differences among preamps that I would ever use--the ones with very flat frequency response, low noise and distortion, adequate input impedance, common mode rejection and overload margins, proper phantom powering and no "pin 1" problem. It's possible to get all those things right and achieve sonic transparency for all practical purposes--and that's the approach I favor.

Certainly there are sonic differences among some preamps, and maybe 50+ years ago that situation was unavoidable. But nowadays it would only be because some people want and expect there to be such differences, so some manufacturers deliberately give their products a distinctive sonic "character" or "signature" of some kind. The only problem is, any deviation from neutral can (at best) have a favorable effect on the sound only sometimes. In other cases any given flavoring will make the sound "different, but not better," while in still other cases it logically MUST make the sound worse.

If any audio circuit could make ALL signals "sound better" regardless of what you fed into it, you could use it on ANY pre-recorded signal, store the result, then put that result through the same circuit again and the signal would by definition come out sounding even better the second time around; if you repeated the cycle further, the sound would keep sounding better and better indefinitely.

If something about that scenario sounds wrong, then start by realizing that there can be no such thing as a circuit that always improves the sound of any signal.

Therefore, I choose to record with neutral-sounding equipment (or as close to it as I can get), then "season to taste" afterward if there's a reason to do so.

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 12:55:06 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline larrysellers

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2018, 07:21:21 AM »
larrysellers, I recently bought a used VMS 02 IB on this board and sent it to Schoeps for checkout and repair; they returned it last week with two things fixed (one electronic, one mechanical). So they do still repair these at least some of the time. There may be some things they can't fix any more, I dunno, like if you run over it with a steamroller and then ask them to replace 100% of the parts. But there isn't a total ban to be sure.

Thank you for the update. I sent them one a few years ago and they returned it unrepaired due to a lack of parts.

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2018, 10:44:06 AM »
I don't think that any sonic "flavor" of certain preamps can technically make the signal sound better.  But I firmly believe that the sonic "flavor" of certain preamps do sound different.
To my ears, there is a difference in the sound of an Aeta PSP-3 and a Sonosax SX-M2.  Or a Grace Lunatec V2/V3 and an Aerco MP-2.  Or a Sound Devices MixPre and a Sound Devices USBPre 2.  Or even a Grace V2/V3 and a SD 7xx sound different to me. 
Two different preamps can be absolutely transparent...   but some preamps are lively and "musical"...  and some are dry and "clinical".

While there are many "top notch" preamps that all sound great and do the same job, some have a certain mojo and some don't. 
Sometimes mojo is preferred, sometimes it's not....  and not to say that the VMS is better than other top notch preamp..  but to me, the VMS has some mojo.  A certain smoothness that other preamps don't have.   

At least that how things seem to my ears.   :shrug:


« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 10:53:32 AM by yug du nord »
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline fanofjam

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2018, 12:13:51 PM »
I don't think that any sonic "flavor" of certain preamps can technically make the signal sound better.  But I firmly believe that the sonic "flavor" of certain preamps do sound different.
To my ears, there is a difference in the sound of an Aeta PSP-3 and a Sonosax SX-M2.  Or a Grace Lunatec V2/V3 and an Aerco MP-2.  Or a Sound Devices MixPre and a Sound Devices USBPre 2.  Or even a Grace V2/V3 and a SD 7xx sound different to me. 
Two different preamps can be absolutely transparent...   but some preamps are lively and "musical"...  and some are dry and "clinical".

While there are many "top notch" preamps that all sound great and do the same job, some have a certain mojo and some don't. 
Sometimes mojo is preferred, sometimes it's not....  and not to say that the VMS is better than other top notch preamp..  but to me, the VMS has some mojo.  A certain smoothness that other preamps don't have.   

At least that how things seem to my ears.   :shrug:

I agree.  What's the first question that's asked whenever new gear comes out...What do the preamps sound like?

Also to suggest otherwise is the analogy of saying that every mod Oade ever did to stock gear is basically just snake oil.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 03:40:23 PM by fanofjam »

Offline perks

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2018, 01:47:36 PM »
This thread inspired me to take the PSP-2 out of my bag for a bit to run the VMS52UB again as I had not used it in a while. Fanofjam helped me get adequate powering solutions for running a VMS in lo profile situations a while back and I really love the way my recordings sound when I use this amp.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H,O)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Online noahbickart

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Re: Market for Schoeps VMS 02IB
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2018, 09:01:38 AM »
Dsatz is on the record challenging the widespread notion that different solid state preamps make much if any difference with Schoeps capsules.

If you're going to attribute such a statement to DSatz, I recommend quoting him rather than paraphrasing.  I strongly suspect you've misrepresented whatever he said, because your statement, on its own seems ridiculous to me.

This is like that scene in Annie Hall, when Marshall McLuhan himself shows up to disprove what someone is saying about his work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wWUc8BZgWE

--About preamp sound: I don't hear differences among preamps that I would ever use--the ones with very flat frequency response, low noise and distortion, adequate input impedance, common mode rejection and overload margins, proper phantom powering and no "pin 1" problem. It's possible to get all those things right and achieve sonic transparency for all practical purposes--and that's the approach I favor.

Certainly there are sonic differences among some preamps, and maybe 50+ years ago that situation was unavoidable. But nowadays it would only be because some people want and expect there to be such differences, so some manufacturers deliberately give their products a distinctive sonic "character" or "signature" of some kind. The only problem is, any deviation from neutral can (at best) have a favorable effect on the sound only sometimes. In other cases any given flavoring will make the sound "different, but not better," while in still other cases it logically MUST make the sound worse.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

 

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