Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061  (Read 772 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1722
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« on: May 23, 2018, 02:20:26 PM »
as someone who obviously wants the best sound possible with low noise floor mics the 4060 would seem like the no brainer but i am using it to record loud rock shows mostly

that said the new CORE mics (+$30) give the 4060 6 dB more headroom

im wondering if that will be enough

im struggling to compare it with the schoeps im used to as they use different criteria

for example an MK4/4V cap is rated at only 132 dB max SPL **(at 0.5% THD)**
not sure what the dB at clipping would be but prob in the 140s
self noise 14-15 dBA (18 dBa or so when i use with my CMR)

the old 4060s were rated at 134 dB at clip, 123 dB at 1% THD, self noise 23 dBa, 100 dB dynamic range
new core are also 134 at clip but 129 dB at 1% THD, self noise 23 dBa, 106 dB dynamic range

old 4061: 144 dB max at clip, 123 dB at 1% THD, self noise 23 dBa, 97 dB dynamic range
new 4061:144 dB max at clip, 137 db at 1% THD, self noise 26 dBa, 111 dB dynamic range


note that while the 4061 has higher max SPL, both the 4060 and 4061 are at 1% THD at 123 dB
thinking of how loud i record things i want to say the 4060s with their 123-129 dB at 1% may be enough of an improvement, BUT the 4061s going from 123-137 is a huge improvement. Dare i say that the 1%THD at 137 dBa compares favorably with the mk4 at 0.5 THD at 132 dB (without an actual measurement to back that up)

i guess my reservation is people have reported that 4061 have audible noise floor in quiet situation where 4060s do not. Thats something i really dont want. i realize there are compromises in a mic that small and im not going to get the low noise floor of an mk4 with the low distorition at high spl

so... 4061 owners... has the higher noise floor really been an issue, ever? say youre recording an acoustic show or yourself woodshedding

on paper its 23 vs 26 dbA self-noise and should be barely audible in real life i would imagine...
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 02:23:18 PM by jerryfreak »

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1106
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2018, 03:13:59 PM »
I'm very interested in this because I want to get a pair of 406x and I record a lot of loud stuff.  I've been wondering if the core 4060 would be sufficient as they seem like they might be the best of both worlds (can handle high spl and low noise for quiet stuff).
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12185
  • Gender: Male
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2018, 03:35:31 PM »
Quote
i am using it to record loud rock shows mostly

^
I'd suggest 4061 based on this.  I use both 4060 and 4061, but not the new CORE versions.  The acoustic noise-floor of that type of venue will nearly always be significantly higher than the self-noise of either of these microphones, and thus will dominate the noise-floor of the recording.  You won't notice mic self-noise unless recording in an extremely quiet environment.  Even then, when raising the gain enough to make the noisefloor of the recording audible, it can be hard to differentiate if what you are hearing is the mic's self-noise or the acoustic noise-floor of the environment, typically dominated by HVAC.  Also, I find overload distortion more objectionable than very low-level level hiss, so prefer to err towards having sufficient headroom.

I use 4060 for classical with drop dead quiet audiences in purpose built quiet halls using special HVAC systems.  The venue noise floor exceeds the self-noise of my 4060's.  I've never used 4061's in that situation, so I can't say, but others recording classical music have stated that 4061's self-noise was audible in such situations (might have been in even quieter studio situations, rather than a performance hall)

The other issue is sensitivity.  4060 is more sensitive and produces a hotter output for the same SPL, making it easier to overdrive downstream components if they lack sufficient headroom.  The output level of 4061 can be a more comfortable match for much prosumer recording gear.  This is one reason why 4061 is more available used - its output is better suited to the wireless transmitters used "on talent".

I originally selected 4060 as my do all omni.  But I record way more quiet to medium-loud stuff than really loud stuff. I've only had a handful of situations where 4060 either distorted or overloaded downstream gear (preamp or the recorder's input-stage), and I suspect the new Core version with 6dB more headroom might have eliminated my perception of distortion, assuming the source of that actually was the microphone overloading.  I've not had any situations where 4061 have distorted.  For what I record, 4060 with an extra 6dB of headroom would likely handle everything I do.

The important question with regard to microphone self-noise is: How truely quiet are the quietest spaces in which you record?  Maybe check with a sound meter app the next time you are in such a situation.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1722
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2018, 04:14:15 PM »
thanks for the detailed response!


Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1722
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 04:55:58 PM »
I'm very interested in this because I want to get a pair of 406x and I record a lot of loud stuff.  I've been wondering if the core 4060 would be sufficient as they seem like they might be the best of both worlds (can handle high spl and low noise for quiet stuff).

from my discussion with dpa tech support in longmont he was also surprised the people on line were saying 4061s had a high noise floor, describing it as a "very quiet mic".

he also agreed with my assumption that if 4061s had 1% THD at 137 dB that it would have less than 1% THD in the 90-120dB range and thus would be better than the 4060s for my application.

again remember the schoeps are 0.5% at 132 and the 4060s are 1% at 129 - so it is in fact noisier

if buying new, $30 extra for the CORE seems like a no-brainer for lower distortion and higher headroom

« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 07:02:16 PM by jerryfreak »

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1106
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 05:13:34 PM »
I'm not saying the 4061 had too much noise for recording concerts, I was just wondering if the core 4060 would kind of provide the best of both worlds.  Sounds like the core 4061 would be more than adequate for the type of stuff I mostly record. Thanks for passing along the info from DPA.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | AT AE5100s | AT853s (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3s | CA-14 omnis | Studio Projects CS5
Pre: CA9200
Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12185
  • Gender: Male
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 05:20:05 PM »
That sounds right to me.  Thanks for posting the essence of your discussion with him.

..again remember the schoeps are 0.5% at 132 and the 4060s are 1% at 129 - so it is in fact noisier.

Yes, except that concluding statement confuses noise and distortion.  Distortion is a measurement of harmonic content produced by the microphone which is related to the input signal.  Noise is unrelated to the signal.  They manifest at opposite ends of the microphone dynamic range. I get what you mean though. 

Schoeps has both lower self-noise and lower distortion figures at high SPLs.  But it's also a different class of microphone, isn't miniature or low voltage powered (two aspects which tend to set operational limits on these specifications), and is considerably more costly.

Agreed that a $30 premium makes choosing CORE an easy decision.  I'm somewhat surprised they didn't simply eliminate the otherwise identical non-core version all together.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline jerryfreak

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1722
  • I'm a llama! (taboot)
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 05:37:31 PM »
trigger pulled!

sweetwater and trew were unable to get me the kit with the d:vice+4060 pair upgraded to 4061 cores, so i spoke with jared at dpa in longmont who got on the horn and found a distributor to work with me, so i got the dvice stereo kit upgraded to the 4061 cores for a nominal cost.

he accomplished this at literally the 11th hour after sweetwater and trew left me hangin yesterday, overnighted straight from longmont today so i can use it this weekend. Here is the contact info for the dealer who was also super accommodating, def get a rec in my book:

Audio Department, LLC
2700 W. Burbank Blvd
Burbank, CA 91505 US
(818) 566-6526
sales@audiodept.com


now thats freakin SERVICE. Jared at DPA even did a quick hand match of close serial numbers for output (said that response is really nbd as we know as that is very consistent)

crazy that the entire setup of mics and d:vice cost less than my underused 41V caps which i could certainly live without. We'll see how it goes, i have redrocks UM in a few weeks so we'll do some death matches of the DPAs vs my full rig
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 08:27:36 PM by jerryfreak »

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
  • Gender: Male
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 06:12:46 AM »
Agreed that a $30 premium makes choosing CORE an easy decision.  I'm somewhat surprised they didn't simply eliminate the otherwise identical non-core version all together.

I was thinking the same thing.  I suspect they have a large amount of components for the old version they need to work through first, and only then will the standard versions be discontinued.  The $30 difference for CORE is insignificant, so I imagine that's partly to make the price point of the new versions attractive.  But that cuts both ways.  I think it makes customers who understand the differences now far less likely to purchase the old version.

I predict that once CORE version sales really take off, we'll see a price drop on the standard versions to clear out all the old stock.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12185
  • Gender: Male
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 09:19:03 AM »
4060/4061 has been a staple in the stage and production world for decades, and it may be useful for some spec'd in contractual users to keep the original available for a while.  More inertia in some worlds than others.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline beenjammin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 11:15:36 AM »
Has anyone had both versions in hand to do a subjective test? I wonder if the core's better specifications translate to an audible difference. I try not to chase after the latest technologies, but my 4060s might be my favorite microphone. And if the newer version offers sonic improvements, I could see upgrading.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12185
  • Gender: Male
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 11:52:23 AM »
I don't expect to hear much difference on most material, but I could be surprised.  Personally my take is that I'm happy with my standard 4060/61s as long as they are operating to specification and plan to replace them with new CORE versions once they eventually fail. 
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Online ilduclo

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4488
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 01:01:08 PM »
never had a problem with brickwall with 4061's and a decent 9v battery box. I get good acoustic and quiet shows with these, too

Offline perks

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4384
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 01:25:12 PM »
I want some 4061's. Ive got a lonely MMA6000 that I'd love to run again. Anyone looking to upgrade to CORE I could be interested in your vintage 4061's.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661

Offline beenjammin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2018, 10:37:55 AM »
I don't expect to hear much difference on most material, but I could be surprised.  Personally my take is that I'm happy with my standard 4060/61s as long as they are operating to specification and plan to replace them with new CORE versions once they eventually fail.

A well-reasoned, measured approach to upgrading. If only I were so careful! I have my 4060 SMK set on the Yard Sale and am upgrading to the Core. I'm not expecting the sonic differences to be huge, but will report back with any non-scientific findings.

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 631
Re: DPAs new CORE series: 4060 vs 4061
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2018, 11:46:21 AM »


I have 4061's and a D;Vice. The only show I have used them at so far was for a neo-classical trio in a venue noted for it's sound. I ended up with very low gain due to the choice of app. There is very little self noise even though there were points in the performance where you could easily have heard a pin drop.
MK22's / MK41's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63, ck8 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers  / DPA 4061's
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (Nbob for sale) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox 
Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Sony M-10 / Tascam DR-100mkIII / d:vice

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.237 seconds with 38 queries.
© 2002-2018 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF