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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5  (Read 2779 times)

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Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 04:08:42 PM »
Can't find the answer to this in the thread, so pardon the repeat question:

The manual for the MP-3 states 'The MixPre-3 can record up to five audio tracks...'

So can one send the aux in to the mix tracks w/out the ISO's? Or is there some other way, or is it only 5 if you do a hot mix of the 3 ISO's onto the mix tracks along with the aux pair?

Or should I just have gotten the 6? :)

~Chris

I was curious about this after reading your comment so I looked at the manual.  It appears to me that the five tracks are the three ISOs and the LR mix.  Hopefully someone who has more familiarity with the MP3 will correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct the MixPre3 is 3 ISO tracks and in addition an L/R mix track. So while it has 5 tracks total, only 3 are ISO tracks or individual inputs. That is why it is called a MixPre3. There is a lot of commenting on people who thought or presumed there would be a way to have 5 (ISO) inputs, but that is not how the deck was designed. From early comments at SD, it seems unlikely this can be changed nor was it in the design to begin with.

Similarly the MixPre6 has 6 ISO tracks. It has in addition a L/R mix track for a total of 8 tracks, but only has 6 (ISO) input tracks. And to clarify further, only four of the inputs (ISO's) have the Kashmir Preamps. Tracks 5 and 6 are plug in power or supply your own through an external Preamp.

ISO = Isolated track
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 08:18:02 PM »
I have a firmware request, I sent it directly to SD, but I want to post here so others can ask as well. I know it's nitpicking.

Please note that polarity, and not "phase" is the correct term for that which is upside down but not time-shifted. Phase would involve a time-shift, and not just a hot/cold switcheroo!  ^-^

Hey Sound Devices!
Please change the PHASE setting label on each channel to POLARITY, thanks!

(edited to change will send to sent!)


For what it's worth, the terms seem to used interchangeably...perhaps it's an American English vs Queens English thing.  Anyway, I went to B&H's website and did a sample of audio preamps that have polarity/phase switches and both terms are used.  (FWIW, I've always called it 'phase' and I'm pretty sure that's how it's referred to in my DAW...Adobe Audition though I don't have Audition on this machine I have in front of me.)

These guys call it a phase switch or phase reverse on the face of their preamp.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/581139-REG/Summit_Audio_TPA_200B_TPA_200B_Microphone_Line_Preamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1316011-REG/fmr_audio_rnp8380_really_nice_preamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/835231-REG/Chandler_LTD1_MIC_PREAMP_EQ_LTD1_MIC_PREAMP_EQ_1_CHANNEL.html

These guys call is a polarity switch.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1113552-REG/lindell_audio_evo6_500_series_discrete_mic.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1239336-REG/trident_audio_series_80b_dual_microphone.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/689904-REG/Millennia_STT_1_SST_1_Origin_Twin.html
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 08:19:49 PM by fanofjam »

Offline morst

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2018, 12:13:39 AM »

For what it's worth, the terms seem to used interchangeably...
For what it's worth, I did say I was nitpicking, but I'll double down and say that about half of the uses are incorrect, or at the very least, imprecise.
Quote


These guys call it a phase switch or phase reverse on the face of their preamp.
Without looking, I can tell you that they all have it mislabeled if it's a switch.
Quote
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/581139-REG/Summit_Audio_TPA_200B_TPA_200B_Microphone_Line_Preamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1316011-REG/fmr_audio_rnp8380_really_nice_preamp.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/835231-REG/Chandler_LTD1_MIC_PREAMP_EQ_LTD1_MIC_PREAMP_EQ_1_CHANNEL.html

These guys call it a polarity switch.
and they are correct.
Quote


https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1113552-REG/lindell_audio_evo6_500_series_discrete_mic.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1239336-REG/trident_audio_series_80b_dual_microphone.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/689904-REG/Millennia_STT_1_SST_1_Origin_Twin.html

Here is a pretty good discussion of why polarity refers to signal inversion and phase refers to timing
https://theproaudiofiles.com/phase/

"One of the most confusing topics in audio is Phase. I think part of what makes it confusing is that people use it in reference to more than one issue.
What always seems to make things clear for me: figure out precisely which aspect is the concern then focus on the part that matters. It is such an issue that I avoid using the word Phase to prevent confusion.
There are really two things people mean when they say Phase: Polarity or Timing Difference.
Hopefully differentiating these can help you decide if you should push that Invert button or move a microphone when things sound weird."
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Offline morst

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2018, 12:15:07 AM »
I'm not going to post every time I make a recording with the MixPre6, but I will make an exception for my initial outings. I recorded two shows by Monks Of Doom in small clubs in the San Francisco bay area. The deck performed more-or-less as expected. I was running firmware 2.10, and starting/stopping record and monitoring via the iOS app.

I was using the "suggested" custom combo mode where the knobs control ISO gain. I like it in principle, but in order to check the gain I had to move the fader, and change the gain!?  That seems weird.

Don't get me wrong, Audacity has the same problem, I have to click on the channel gain in order to find out how it's set, and that changes it if I move the mouse pointer at all!? But that's not my favorite way to run a user interface.

And we're off to the races.

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https://archive.org/details/MonksOfDoom2018-05-19
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Offline checht

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2018, 11:17:19 AM »
[snip] ...but in order to check the gain I had to move the fader, and change the gain!?  That seems weird.

Why do you want to know the gain setting while recording? During a show, the only thing I care about is levels.

After a show, I sometimes see where the gain ended up in order to have a general sense of where to start at in a similar situation.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2018, 11:23:15 AM »
[snip] ...but in order to check the gain I had to move the fader, and change the gain!?  That seems weird.

Why do you want to know the gain setting while recording? During a show, the only thing I care about is levels.

After a show, I sometimes see where the gain ended up in order to have a general sense of where to start at in a similar situation.

this!  I tend to start at 20.   after that I don't care about the number just levels.
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Offline jmitchell

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2018, 07:11:10 AM »
[snip] ...but in order to check the gain I had to move the fader, and change the gain!?  That seems weird.

Why do you want to know the gain setting while recording? During a show, the only thing I care about is levels.

After a show, I sometimes see where the gain ended up in order to have a general sense of where to start at in a similar situation.



this!  I tend to start at 20.   after that I don't care about the number just levels.

I start at 20, but usually end up a bit higher.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2018, 07:47:52 AM »
There is a new version (I think) of the Wingman app:  https://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/wm-firmware.

Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2018, 10:50:52 AM »

I was using the "suggested" custom combo mode where the knobs control ISO gain. I like it in principle, but in order to check the gain I had to move the fader, and change the gain!?  That seems weird.

Don't get me wrong, Audacity has the same problem, I have to click on the channel gain in order to find out how it's set, and that changes it if I move the mouse pointer at all!? But that's not my favorite way to run a user interface.

And we're off to the races.



I am now running 2.21 and the need to turn the gain knob is no longer the case. Just pushing the knob in to show the ISO track allows you to see what the gain setting is.
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Offline morst

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2018, 05:52:45 PM »
I am now running 2.21 and the need to turn the gain knob is no longer the case. Just pushing the knob in to show the ISO track allows you to see what the gain setting is.
I am not seeing that this is the case at all. Using the settings I have, a push of the channel knob takes you to the channel control page, but does not show the level until I move the knob. Likewise, in the mode where the level meters show, a twist of the knob is required to show the level of the channel. The MixPre6 must be a quantum recorder, because its operation is affected by looking at it.

Evidently, I am getting spoiled by modern digital metering. In the future, I'll simply set the knobs at 9 o'clock and go get drunk.

Until now, I've usually liked to run left and right channels at the same level. Changing one and not the other shifts the stereo image. Going forward I will have to learn how to use the balance control in linked mode. It seems unintuitive to me, but the SV3800 worked that way.

In Linked Mode do the knobs for #2 and #4 need to be at "noon" in order for channel balance to be preserved?

"Good sound, weird operation" is my review after three shows.
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Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2018, 06:01:18 PM »
I am now running 2.21 and the need to turn the gain knob is no longer the case. Just pushing the knob in to show the ISO track allows you to see what the gain setting is.
I am not seeing that this is the case at all. Using the settings I have, a push of the channel knob takes you to the channel control page, but does not show the level until I move the knob. Likewise, in the mode where the level meters show, a twist of the knob is required to show the level of the channel. The MixPre6 must be a quantum recorder, because its operation is affected by looking at it.

I think it changed with 2.20. I know I used to have to turn the knob, but now I only needed to press the ISO button.
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Offline ycoop

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Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2018, 06:48:45 PM »
I'm not going to post every time I make a recording with the MixPre6, but I will make an exception for my initial outings. I recorded two shows by Monks Of Doom in small clubs in the San Francisco bay area. The deck performed more-or-less as expected. I was running firmware 2.10, and starting/stopping record and monitoring via the iOS app.

I was using the "suggested" custom combo mode where the knobs control ISO gain. I like it in principle, but in order to check the gain I had to move the fader, and change the gain!?  That seems weird.

Don't get me wrong, Audacity has the same problem, I have to click on the channel gain in order to find out how it's set, and that changes it if I move the mouse pointer at all!? But that's not my favorite way to run a user interface.

And we're off to the races.

Kick down thread for LMA posts: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186685.0

https://archive.org/details/MonksOfDoom2018-05-19
Saturday, May 19, 2018
San Francisco, CA USA
The Make Out Room

https://archive.org/details/MonksOfDoom2018-05-20
Sunday, May 20, 2018
Albany, CA, USA
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Offline morst

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2018, 06:52:39 PM »
https://archive.org/details/MonksOfDoom2018-05-20
Sunday, May 20, 2018
The Ivy Room
Quote
Did you have a stand at the Ivy Room? Where were you situated?

Avantone CK-1s > DR-60d
Oh thanks for the reminder that I never filled out the blanks for lineage & source. Fixed now.
Ivy Room, no board feed was available from dude.
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Offline justink

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2018, 12:20:39 AM »
https://archive.org/details/MonksOfDoom2018-05-20
Sunday, May 20, 2018
The Ivy Room
Quote
Did you have a stand at the Ivy Room? Where were you situated?

Avantone CK-1s > DR-60d
Oh thanks for the reminder that I never filled out the blanks for lineage & source. Fixed now.
Ivy Room, no board feed was available from dude.
Neumann KM140s on stand at FoH + KM143s split on stage > Sound Devices MixPre6 > WAV @24/48

this is awesome.  i wish we could get the counting crows on archive.org.
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 5
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2018, 12:36:02 AM »
Here is a pretty good discussion of why polarity refers to signal inversion and phase refers to timing
https://theproaudiofiles.com/phase/

"One of the most confusing topics in audio is Phase. I think part of what makes it confusing is that people use it in reference to more than one issue.
What always seems to make things clear for me: figure out precisely which aspect is the concern then focus on the part that matters. It is such an issue that I avoid using the word Phase to prevent confusion.
There are really two things people mean when they say Phase: Polarity or Timing Difference.
Hopefully differentiating these can help you decide if you should push that Invert button or move a microphone when things sound weird."

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but phase and polarity would (sort of) be referring to the same thing for a perfect sinusoidal wave.
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