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Author Topic: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens  (Read 1036 times)

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Offline jadedphan

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Hey now,

So, I'm replacing some beat schoeps windscreens, and am not quite sure why the b5d windscreens are so much more expensive.  Can someone please explain to me the extra features they have other the standard solid schoeps solid foam pop screen.  Is the b5d just better protection from wind?

Thanks in advance,
-bry
Schoeps MK22/41  > KCY > Schoeps VMS-5U > SD 744t
Schoeps MK22/41 > KC5 (modified) > nbox platinum > SD 744t line ins

Offline jcable77

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 09:26:17 AM »
Hey man. Theres these that are knock offs, theres a thread about it somewhere.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Pop-Filter-Foam-Windscreen-for-SCHOEPS-CCM4UG-Broadcast-TV-Conference-Mic/222536419795?hash=item33d03449d3:g:X9EAAOSwmfhX7iNB
These are just foam and the bd5 had a plastic membrane on the inside of the foam that makes them more rigid/resistant to wind. Thats just from what i gather from the thread a lil while ago. Those knock offs are ok inside but dont do much in the way of any breeze. I have a couple and like someone said in the other thread, good enough to keep caps in a bag safe.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 05:36:58 PM »
First, let me point out that the B 5 D was designed to solve a very specific problem, and it is not necessarily the ideal solution to other problems. The problem was a scheduled outdoor concert by "The Three Tenors" that Decca wanted to record live, then release as a video and a CD. So they needed a modest amount of general windscreening for the mikes (the performers were all under a canopy roof, and the wind currents near them were quite limited), but very effective on-axis pop screening. Plus the screens needed to be small enough not to block the cameras' or the audience's view of the singers' faces.

The B 5 D has a soft plastic "seat" that the capsule slides into; in front of that there's an air chamber within the foam. The still air within this chamber gives greatly improved suppression of popping sounds (and other breath noise) than an equivalent amount of foam would do, plus it doesn't interfere with the pattern or frequency response of the capsule.

I'm no expert on wind and pop screens, but I wouldn't assume that the B 5 D was an ideal choice for any application other than the one it was designed for. It is a type of "close-talking guard" (B = "Bespechungsschutz") designed to resist air blasts from one direction only; it is not a windscreen; Schoeps' windscreens have part names that start with W (= "Windschutz").

--best regards

P.S.: In the photo, the capsules are mounted on thin active extension tubes. These work the same way as Colette active extension cables, except that they're mechanically rigid overall, with an angle adjustment at the capsule end. The microphone amplifier screws on to the other end of the tube, and the whole capsule+tube+amplifier assembly is (in this application) coupled to a vertical rod that extends from a circular, flat-bottomed floor stand. A foam pad underneath the base of the stand isolates it from vibrations in the stage floor.

(I'm a little surprised that no one else here seems to use these extension tubes for live recording. There's even a stereo version that's designed for M/S recording.)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 05:50:48 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline goodcooker

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 08:28:42 PM »
I'm a little surprised that no one else here seems to use these extension tubes for live recording.

Schoeps accessories are ridiculously expensive. That's why our little corner of the world has a vendor who sells compatible active cables and preamps that cost a fraction of the name brand stuff. 
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Offline DSatz

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 07:06:08 PM »
good, I have to acknowledge the reality of what you're saying, if you're talking primarily about the consumer market. Not as much if you're a professional, though. Those admittedly high prices are what enable the products to be as good-sounding and reliable as they are, and a dealer/service/support network that's there when needed, all of which is necessary if professionals are going to base their livelihoods on using the equipment, especially in situations where there can be no "do-overs".

Over the decades that I've been recording concerts, the price of the best-quality microphones has generally come down quite a bit in "constant dollars" (i.e. prices with inflation factored in). Depending on the factor you decide to use, they might be anywhere from 30 to 50% less costly than when I started out in the 70s. Major accessories designed and built by the microphone manufacturers themselves, as opposed to the third-party items that they also sell (e.g. Koenig & Meyer stands; Rycote windscreens and shock mounts), have always been strikingly expensive but have generally come down in price, too.

Which may only show how very, very expensive they used to be, I dunno. But in any case I certainly didn't mean to put anyone down for being honest people who have to give up other things in order to afford this hobby. I just meant, since I do see some people spending much more than I do on certain kinds of items (e.g. I use fancy microphones but not fancy recorders), I think there are people who might be interested in trying extension tubes, is all. Or they might at least like to fantasize about them.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 03:32:01 PM »
^ I've fantasized about using them as outrigger extensions for wide A-B from a single stand.  Oriented such that they extend horizontally outwards from a single central stand, suspending just the omnis or subcard capsules at the end of the thin tubes, with no exposed cabling.  The bulk and weight of the amplifier bodies would be centered at the stand, or flexible active cables could further extend the run to the recording bag at the base of the stand housing the amplifier bodies.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 03:56:09 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline heathen

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 03:46:18 PM »
For anyone else who is curious about how much these things cost... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/515473-REG/Schoeps_RC_1200G_RC1200_Active_Tube_and.html
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: stoopid question: dif in schoeps b5d vs. standard windscreens
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 04:09:25 PM »
There are other "thin capsule support tube" type arrangements from other manufactures as well, most for pre-polarized microphones thus not "active".  They are typically intended for podium or ceiling-hung installations.

Audio Technica and DPA come immediately to mind, but there are probably others as well. 

The DPA 4098H I'm currently using feature a short (6" or so) gooseneck section between the microphone and it's microdot connector, but no rigid tube section. Here's the page for the DPA 4098 miniature supercardioid showing tube extensions of various lengths with integrated goose-necks- https://www.dpamicrophones.com/dsign/gooseneck-microphone  Note that the 4098 is a "close chorus and speech microhone" also used for "close instrument placement" and as as such is not really designed for distance mic'ing of music beyond the range of proximity effect, yet I use them in combination with omnis to extend frequency response and reinforce the bottom octaves.

DPA offers similar extension tubes for their non-miniature DPA 4018 (presumably interchangeable with all their other modular capsules), which would be more on par with the active tubes from Schoeps.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 04:39:16 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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