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Author Topic: Edirol r-09 settings?  (Read 642 times)

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Offline Nelle B

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Edirol r-09 settings?
« on: May 03, 2018, 03:02:10 PM »
I am going to be recording a high school musical performance for a friend in a few weeks. I got an old edirol r-09, and I have yet to use it. I would like to minimize audience coughs, talking, breathing, etc. in my live recordings, so what settings should I put on my recorder (the back side switches on the device)? However I don't want this to take away any quality from the actual performances, though. I also don't want volume limiter problems when the performance gets louder (when the recording's volume decreases due to overload). I want a steady volume throughout the recording, without feedback or limiter problems.

From reading the manual, I have put the device settings like this: Low-Cut switch is on, ACG is off, and mic gain is low.

Thanks

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 03:31:12 PM »
I would like to minimize audience coughs, talking, breathing, etc. in my live recordings, so what settings should I put on my recorder (the back side switches on the device)?

No setting on the recorder can help you with that, other than the <stop> and <power-off> buttons.

Quote
From reading the manual, I have put the device settings like this: Low-Cut switch is on, ACG is off, and mic gain is low.
Low-cut off
ACG off
Mic gain depends on the sensitivity of your microphones and SPL at the recording position (typically set to low)

If using the internal mics (best not to, they aren't very good) I don't think the high/low mic gain setting has any effect, but I can't recall.  In that case only the mic gain applied via the buttons on the side will matter in that regard.  To make a recording using the internal mics which has somewhat better channel separation, imaging and spatial impression, rig up some kind of baffle between the mics, with the recorder sandwiched by the baffle and the mics exposed on either side of it.  A piece of cardboard folded into a wedge shape works.
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Offline Nelle B

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 03:54:05 PM »
Yes, I will just be using the internal mics.

So if there is no setting that helps minimize audience noise, then what exactly is the low-cut switch used for? Same with the ACG and mic gain switch?

I read some older posts about Edirol R-09 settings on this forum and others have said they use these settings.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 03:56:12 PM by Nelle B »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 04:19:18 PM »
The low cut helps remove some of the wind rumble noise outdoors, but also chops off all the low bass content from what you are trying to record at the same time.  The resulting recording will sound thin and weak.  It doesn't even really remove all the wind noise completely, just the worst of it.  It can sometimes be used to cut bass from obscene over-driven subwoofer content, but is not the most appropriate tool for doing that.  And that won't be a problem for what you are recording anyway.

You won't find anyone here ever recommending the use of ACG.  And you almost never want to use the low-cut on the recorder.  It's always better to do that afterwards if necessary, but you won't need to do so for what you are recording.

I think the mic-gain switch only effects signal through the mic-input jack, but could be mistaken.  Here's more detail if it does control gain when using the internal mics-

Put the recorder in record/pause and adjust gain while clapping loudly using the buttons on the side to get good levels just under clipping.  If the side-button controlled gain is anywhere around the middle of the total adjustable gain range, you're good.. 

If you need to set the side-button adjustable gain to less than 13 to get acceptable levels, set the gain-switch is set to low and go no lower than 10, regardless of the clipping indicator light.  If you need to set the side-button adjustable gain to the highest part of the adjustable range (I forget how high the numbers go) to get acceptable levels, set gain-switch is set to high and dial in as much gain using the side-buttons as you need.

If all voices are amplified through the PA, get in-line with a PA speaker and not too far away from it where the sound is as clear as possible.  If only some content is through the PA, and some is unamplified, sit as close to the stage as you can, but where the PA still sounds clear.  If there are small speakers across the front of the stage facing the audience, sit in the front row directly in front of one of those.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 04:21:03 PM »
Make sure the recorder has a direct line of sight from the microphones to the sound sources without anything blocking the sound path.

Oh, and welcome to Taperssection, BTW!
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Offline Nelle B

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2018, 11:34:02 AM »
So, clapping is a good way to measure if my input levels are ok? The musical isn't like heavy metal or anything, but there will be a full live orchestra (as big as you can get for a high school) and the people will be miked.

And no matter what, don't go under 10? Why is that? Also, what is a PA? (Sorry for all the questions, I am not familiar with this jargon).

What is a "safe" range of input levels for a recording like this? The edirol goes up to 100 for input, I believe.

Again, many thanks.


Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2018, 11:52:37 AM »
Clap loudly.  That's a good starting point and probably won't require adjustment, but check levels once the performance starts to make sure the level is appropriate.

PA = Public Address system, the big speakers facing the audience through which the mic'd performers are amplified.

Safe range of input levels on the original R-09 is between 10 and max.  The original R-09 maxes out at 30.
Safe range of input levels on the R-09HR is reported to be between 20 and max (I've not used the HR). Not sure what it maxes out at, but if your's goes to 100 it's not an original R-09, so safest to stay above 20.
^
These are the "do no go below" guidelines for those recorders.

If you need to turn the input setting lower than the "do not go below" number to avoid clipping on the meters, the signal will be overloading the input stage of the recorder and you will get brickwall clipping distortion in the recording.  The meters will not show peaking and will not indicate the distortion which is happening, except close observation of the meter movement might show less dynamic activity (less bouncing up and down) which never exceeds a certain level.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 11:54:11 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Nelle B

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 07:35:52 PM »
My mistake, my Edirol R-09 maxes out at 30. I don't know why I thought 100! I think I was thinking about the volume.

I tried clapping very loudly (with mic gain switch set to low) and I still had occasional peak levels even at 12, so I decided on 13. Do you think this is too low? I don't want to run the risk of getting any feedback/overload.

PS – What is brickwall clipping distortion?

Thanks  :)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2018, 02:13:53 PM »
13 is safe from brickwalling, and likely to be appropriate for your recording situation.

Brickwall distortion is overload of the input stage from an overly hot signal, where the level can no longer be reduced sufficiently by the recorder's input attenuation.  In that case one needs to reduce signal level prior to the recorder.

Search TS for the term and you will find plenty of discussions about it.
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Offline Nelle B

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 11:50:37 AM »
So I recorded the performance in question. I ultimately decided recording at input level 14, and the the sound turned out very nice but very quiet (you have to turn the volume all the way to max in order to get a normal playback volume). There was a parent sitting next to me who ate food loudly the whole time, but you can't hear it on the recording so that is a plus.

I think if I ever record something like this again I'll crank up the input to maybe 18. Thoughts??

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol r-09 settings?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 12:10:52 PM »
Yes.  Going with higher input gain is no problem and would be appropriate for that situation.  If you are using the line-input and need to crank up the levels past the low 20's, switch to the mic-input.  Then..

Quote
If you need to set the side-button adjustable gain to the highest part of the adjustable range (I forget how high the numbers go) to get acceptable levels, set gain-switch is set to high and dial in as much gain using the side-buttons as you need.

^ gain switch only applies to the mic-input, not the line-input.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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