Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20  (Read 27543 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Church-Audio

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 7568
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2008, 11:14:42 AM »
Rubbish wow... Wonder what you think of my circuits... BTW did you get my pm?  ;)

Chris


OK rubbish is a bit strong . . . but if you use the same number of components as the long-published and oft-copied Schoeps circuit, but build a materially worse circuit, that's not very good!  I mean I've built plenty of mics that had higher output impedance, lower SPL handling, lower efficiency than the traditional PNP output pair (and I have built better circuits too).  But I always had a different reason for that--either size, or parts count, or intended application, etc.  Every circuit is a compromise.

But that last circuit of his really annoyed me, paraphrased:  "zeners are bad; here's a circuit I haven't tested!"  Well, test it before you say it's so great next time!  And he says that circuit is "perhaps the ultimate"?  Actually, I'm not even sure it would work properly--when he removed the zener, he also removed the DC source for the PNP, leaving just the capsule FET.  I might build that myself and check it out.  But if you ask me, build this circuit:

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/microphone_powering.html#phantom

Under "better phantom powering circuit"


PS I did see your PM, but even that is a bit much for me.



Yeah I do have to admit its pretty lame to have published a circuit that he has not even tested and say its better then a circuit with a zener diode.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline SparkE!

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 774
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2008, 12:10:59 PM »
Rubbish wow... Wonder what you think of my circuits... BTW did you get my pm?  ;)

Chris


OK rubbish is a bit strong . . . but if you use the same number of components as the long-published and oft-copied Schoeps circuit, but build a materially worse circuit, that's not very good!  I mean I've built plenty of mics that had higher output impedance, lower SPL handling, lower efficiency than the traditional PNP output pair (and I have built better circuits too).  But I always had a different reason for that--either size, or parts count, or intended application, etc.  Every circuit is a compromise.

But that last circuit of his really annoyed me, paraphrased:  "zeners are bad; here's a circuit I haven't tested!"  Well, test it before you say it's so great next time!  And he says that circuit is "perhaps the ultimate"?  Actually, I'm not even sure it would work properly--when he removed the zener, he also removed the DC source for the PNP, leaving just the capsule FET.  I might build that myself and check it out.  But if you ask me, build this circuit:

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/microphone_powering.html#phantom

Under "better phantom powering circuit"


PS I did see your PM, but even that is a bit much for me.


Ha! That's great!  He removes the zener diode and does nothing to provide the regulated voltage to bias the FET.  Actually, it will bias at the Vds breakdown voltage for FET that's trying to be the low noise front end of the signal chain.  Not only that, but the FET also becomes the DC bias path for the bias resistors in the output stage.  I've seen this circuit somewhere else before and I'm thinking that this guy doesn't do any of his own design work.  I think he pulled that off of a message board somewhere.  Cut and paste. ;D
How'm I supposed to read your lips when you're talkin' out your ass? - Lern Tilton

Ignorance in audio is exceeded only by our collective willingness to embrace and foster it. -  Srajan Ebaen

Offline anechoic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Gender: Male
  • composer, writer, sound designer
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2008, 05:00:40 PM »
very good thread and nice to have so much brain-trust here! :)
debunking DIY audio can save us all from audio mythology and bad information
thanks to all for weighing in on this schemo
:)

 
'In the new world the characteristic unit will be
small, highly mobile, independent and intelligent.'
                                - Robert Fripp

Offline moooose

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 171
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2008, 03:22:50 AM »

Em123, 125, em135 and (EM63. but I only have two of these) The others I have quite a few of.

Chris


Chris, PM sent regarding caps

Offline run_run_run

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2008, 07:22:57 PM »
I build a set and ran them in the rain night 1 for the up north fest.  They sound great, should work fine if your in a good location and the sound is good.

http://www.archive.org/details/eo2008-08-08.wa61s

I went into a 9 volt battery box, I am assuming they benefit from that vs plug in power on my iriver? 

Offline digifish_music

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1018
    • digifish music
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2008, 09:04:45 PM »
I build a set and ran them in the rain night 1 for the up north fest.  They sound great, should work fine if your in a good location and the sound is good.

http://www.archive.org/details/eo2008-08-08.wa61s

I went into a 9 volt battery box, I am assuming they benefit from that vs plug in power on my iriver? 

+T thanks for sharing, I downloaded the MP3 .zip. As you say if you are in the right spot, it's hard to justify the extra $400+ for a set of better mics :)

Mic placement & baffling have a big impact with omnis.  The only issue these mics have is that they are a little more noisy than fully good professional small diaphragm condensers, but you are not going to notice that recording bands. This field recording (for example) I was sitting between the mics (laid on a bench) acting as a baffle, the result is excellent IMO...

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=53799

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=53800

http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=54167

digifish.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 11:22:17 PM by digifish_music »
- What's this knob do?

Offline anechoic

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Gender: Male
  • composer, writer, sound designer
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2008, 12:44:32 PM »
@digifish
your recordings are interesting but to my ear there is a large 'hole' in the center of the stereo stage
which might be exaggerated by using your body as a baffle instead of something like a Jecklin disc
but this is common on many of the baffled omni recordings I've heard

speaking of interesting stereo stages
check out this binaural recording done by composer Enrico Coniglio:

http://www.touchmusic.org.uk/TouchPod/Sapientumsuperacquis.mp3

made with OKM's->Zoom H4 @ 96kHz/24bit

I like the spread and depth of the recording
enjoy!
:)
'In the new world the characteristic unit will be
small, highly mobile, independent and intelligent.'
                                - Robert Fripp

Offline run_run_run

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2008, 08:05:18 PM »
This sounds really good

The Wailers

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=517973

Offline marksk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 120
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2008, 01:53:57 PM »
can the 4.7k mod be done on the em-135? i see a small solder joint from the center of the capsule to the earth pad, but nothing to the case. does the small solder joint get cut to do the mod, or can it not be done to this capsule?

Offline travelinbeat

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2296
  • Gender: Male
  • Turning soundwaves into zeros and ones since 1999
    • http://db.etree.org/travelinbeat
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2008, 02:51:24 PM »
Could anyone recommend some nice stealthy mic capsules that I can use in this technique to record high-volume situations in Croakie mounts?
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline run_run_run

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2008, 06:05:22 PM »
who needs high priced mics
http://www.archive.org/details/waybacks2008-09-01.Panasonic_WM61_Omnis

indoors balcony rail split about a foot

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2008, 06:17:02 PM »
who needs high priced mics
http://www.archive.org/details/waybacks2008-09-01.Panasonic_WM61_Omnis

indoors balcony rail split about a foot


Hey Seth,

You make a great point.
Can people really tell the difference between your style mics and schopes when its the same music, same location, same recorder, etc. I would like to think I can but I know I can't at all.
Good music + good mic position + good PA mix would generally make the best type of recording. If I get a pair of schopes and take them to a slipknot show [insert crappy music here] I can probably get a good recording but the music will be crappy.

happy taping!
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline run_run_run

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2008, 06:29:07 PM »
its all about location, room and the mix. In these case the three where great, and the 61s where more then up to the task.

Offline illconditioned

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2647
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2008, 07:07:12 PM »
who needs high priced mics
http://www.archive.org/details/waybacks2008-09-01.Panasonic_WM61_Omnis

indoors balcony rail split about a foot


Hey Seth,

You make a great point.
Can people really tell the difference between your style mics and schopes when its the same music, same location, same recorder, etc. I would like to think I can but I know I can't at all.
Good music + good mic position + good PA mix would generally make the best type of recording. If I get a pair of schopes and take them to a slipknot show [insert crappy music here] I can probably get a good recording but the music will be crappy.

happy taping!
I agree that 90% of it is performance, then placement, then room/PA/soundsystem.

But I also observe that if you have an imperfect placement and/or soundsystem, a better mic will still give a "listenable" recording.  I think it comes down to the fact that humans have a great ability ot "filter out" noise (the so-called "coctail party effect").  But to filter out noise, they need to be able to hear it clearly.  So, a "clean" recording of a slightly bad room might sound better than a "muddy" recording of the same room.  This is just my own theory, but I've certainly made a lot of recordings in less than ideal situations.

Another point is diminishing returns.  The $2 Panasonic capsule is actually very good, and this was not available just a few years ago.  These are reasonable quality and consistent (due to mass production).   But if you spend $100 or even $1000 for a mic, you will get an improvement in sound.  How far you want to go is up to you, though..

By the way, I have some Panasonic recordings at my website http://Soundmann.com.  Now I'm particularly fond of the Countrman B3, which are about the same size as the WM61 capsule, but they have (imo) a much more detailed and natural sound than the Panasonic.  Of course they are approx $150 each, so not for everyone.

 Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline run_run_run

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5254
  • Gender: Male
Re: Building your own binaural mics ~ $20
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2008, 08:03:28 PM »
I would have used my nak Omni's, but my 9100 is getting worked on. I don't plan on ditching the naks, but the 61s are a great back up / 2nd set of mics.

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.161 seconds with 37 queries.
© 2002-2018 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF