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Offline Ed.

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hd-dvd or bluray
« on: November 27, 2006, 11:56:34 AM »
saw this on digg, thought it was kind of interesting, although its just basic information.
http://www.gadgetcandy.com/archives/2006/11/bluray.php

I personally agree with the user comment that both will be unimportant and HD downloads will be the next thing to take off.  With the price of hdd's dropping, and computers being worked into home theaters, it seems like downloading movies from a pay site will be much easier than going out and buying it in the store.

I'd imagine whichever format works better for storage and backups will be the one that wins...or prices drop on both of them, dual drive players/recorders are released and the two pretty much become one in the same.


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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2006, 12:09:03 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's.  whether that means developing a 2 laser system or separate trays or whatever, people are just not going to give up on the number of dvd's that have been sold in this country.  it seems to be the more elegant technology, but unless you can play your dvd's in a blu-ray player, it will remain a niche technology.

as for internet downloads of hd movies, i don't think that's really going to gain a foothold for years.  i just don't see people integrating their computers to that extent.  how many people do you think would really like having PC's sitting in their living room next to their wall-mounted plasmas?  plus, imagine how long it would take to download a 40 gig movie...even if it's cheaper, people would much rather drive to best buy and pick up the movie in 15 minutes than deal with downloading for days, imo.

Offline Ed.

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2006, 12:19:28 PM »
yeah, but if its directly integrated into ones tivo/dvr, kind of like On Demand I think it'll take off.  Doesn't On Demand already have some older HD movies?  It just seems to me that optical media is slowly going to be fazed out, even if it is over the course of the next 10 years.


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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2006, 12:23:14 PM »
yeah, you can get some hd movies on on-demand.  cinemax had all 6 of the star wars movies in HD on on-demand last week (not sure if they're stil on there or not).

i don't think optical media is going anywhere in the short term.  well, maybe it could be replaced by some other type of physical medium (flash media maybe?).  but consumers in the US like to physically purchase something, give it as a gift, or whatever.  downloads may appeal to geeks like us, but the average consumer doesn't want that, imo.  they want to be able to look over a shelf full of dvd titles to pick out what they want to watch.  they want the ability to have something that won't disappear if a hard-drive gets corrupted.

Offline Ed.

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 12:30:56 PM »
good point.  I myself, welcome the download side of things.  Its easier all around if you ask me, however, there's still a part of me that likes to own the case if I really like it.  Plus its fun to show off your collection when your friends come over.  Showing people a stack of hard drives, just isn't the same.


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Offline George

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 01:47:41 PM »
Even though I'm a geek, I'd rather own a physical copy.  The thought of downloading and then burning a "store bought" cd or dvd is ridiculous to me (and even printing out the booklet).  I don't even own a dvr yet and I imagine most Americans don't either.  A lot of the "advances" that are being discussed simply wont happen due to customer frustration with newer technology.  I don't think physical media is going anywhere, anytime soon. 
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Offline scervin

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 05:57:32 PM »
While there were a ton of people buying up HD tv's this past weekend, I don't think either will be "mainstream" in the near future (5 yrs).  The last time I checked only 20% or so (could be even less) own a HD set. 

HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be for the niche market.  I don't think the avg Joe see's the PQ difference.  It is not as night and day as when DVD took over VHS.  It will be for the SACD and DVD-A market.  The PS3 might help HD-DVD and Blu-Ray's cause.

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 07:07:31 PM »
For those of you who have HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players, I was at Tower Records last weekend and all the HD format discs are 40% off.

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Offline Ed.

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 07:15:00 PM »
saw this and had to laugh

http://www.bbspot.com/News/2006/04/unbreakable-drm.html

Monday, April 24 12:00 AM ET
MPAA and DVD Manufacturers Agree on HD-DVD Format
By George Beckingham

Los Angeles, CA - The MPAA and an association of DVD manufacturers have finally agreed on a standard for high-definition DVDs. The new " Crystal" format provides unbreakable copy protection and Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) features.



"You cannot copy these new discs, even in a Linux machine," says Akita Niigata, a representative for Sony, who developed the discs.

The discs hold 0% of the data of conventional DVDs. Drive manufacturers said that it will be much easier to meet these specs compared with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs. "They'll work with existing machines without any changes, said Niigata.

"The DRM is unbreakable," says Norman Utbar of the MPAA.

"Of course, some users might complain about the fact that there is no content on these discs, but we're certain our law-abiding customers will see that as a small price to pay for the security resulting from the advanced DRM. And of course, if we receive any complaints, we'll subpoena the whiners under the DMCA, because they're probably guilty of some form of copyright infringement."

Utbar said he didn't think consumers would mind paying $14.95 and not seeing Deuce Bigalow European Gigolo.

A representative for the Penguin Liberation Front, which makes available tools to circumvent DRM on Linux computers, refused comment because he was busy downloading next year's theatrical releases from his favorite torrent tracker.

this one is pretty funny too...
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2006/11/home-theater-regulations.html
« Last Edit: November 27, 2006, 07:19:38 PM by Ed. »


Because nothing says "I have lots of money and am sort of confused as to how to spend it" like Bose.

Offline Stagger

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2006, 02:54:19 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's. 

They do... we (finally) got the Sony BDPS1 player at work and pretty much everyone here agrees that it is the best looking upconverting DVD player in the store, including a DVD5910CI. Bluray is the better format. More storage = more longevity as media size increases.. Case closed.
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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2006, 05:20:14 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's. 

They do... we (finally) got the Sony BDPS1 player at work and pretty much everyone here agrees that it is the best looking upconverting DVD player in the store, including a DVD5910CI. Bluray is the better format. More storage = more longevity as media size increases.. Case closed.

On which display?

Offline Stagger

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2006, 06:13:49 PM »
We put it on both a Sony SXRD rear projection and a Pioneer Elite PROFHD1 (The best plasma made and the best picture I have ever seen outside of a 3 chip DLP front projector or Qalia front projector). It smokes. The Pioneer unit my be a tad better on actuall Blu-ray discs but the Sony is crazy good on regular DVDs and damn good on Blu-Ray.
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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2006, 09:34:31 AM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's. 

They do... we (finally) got the Sony BDPS1 player at work and pretty much everyone here agrees that it is the best looking upconverting DVD player in the store, including a DVD5910CI. Bluray is the better format. More storage = more longevity as media size increases.. Case closed.

awesome.  for some reason, i thought blu-ray was not going to upconvert regular dvd's.

josh, i have read on various forums that early blu-ray transfers looked washed out and were generally unimpressive...have you seen this as well?

We put it on both a Sony SXRD rear projection and a Pioneer Elite PROFHD1 (The best plasma made and the best picture I have ever seen outside of a 3 chip DLP front projector or Qalia front projector). It smokes. The Pioneer unit my be a tad better on actuall Blu-ray discs but the Sony is crazy good on regular DVDs and damn good on Blu-Ray.

i find that last part interesting...which sxrd was it, the xbr or kdsa2000 line?  i just traded in my kds50a2000 for a pio 1140 (just got it thursday night).  i was pretty unimpressed by sd dvd's on the sxrd (whether feeding it the upconverted 1080i signal from my sony ns90v or 480i or 480p over component).  the sxrd seemed to introduce an awful lot of mosquito noise and other artifacts.  if it's the newer xbr sxrd's, i'd guess that the improved processing in the xbr is a bigger help than i would've thought it could be.  that's good news as my dad is going to get the 70" when his house is done being renovated next month.


Offline Stagger

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2006, 02:41:03 PM »
The XBR2. Yes some of the transfers do have noise in them...There are 2 reasons for that. 1. The people doing the transfers sucked...just like some folks doing Master Reel ~> SACD transfers are better than others. 2. Most of the first transfers are of older "known entitiy" Titles that were originaly filmed in analoge. You see *everything* in the original print. Noise and all. Think of it like this....

1. A walker table with Koetsu cartridge>Boulder phono pre>CJ ACT2 pre>DarTZeel NHB amp>Acapella Triolon Excalibur
 speakers all cabled with Nordost and Tara

vs.

2. Denon DP29 Table>AVR3806>Polk RTI10ch with typical radio shack cable.

What will give you better sound? Thew first system by far....BUT... you will hear ever pop, click, and molocule of dust in the groove. Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD for that matter) are like the first in that, if there was noise in the original reels, you will see it but it is also showing you ever detail in the film too.

In truth, we need to wait till newer films that were shot streight to digital are more readiily available for both formats. Really though, this is about one thing. Storage. New units will keep comming out with better D>A, scallers, and other features just like they did on DVD. New films shot with better equiment will come out (think of a 24/96 recording made today vs. the early Dead tapes). Blu-Ray has much more capacity and in the end that is what will determine longevity. Would you rather watch all those extra features on your movie in 1080p (Blu-Ray) or 480p (HD-DVD)?
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: hd-dvd or bluray
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2006, 07:57:32 PM »
i think the only way blu-ray wins out is if they adapt the technology to be able to play existing dvd's. 

They do... we (finally) got the Sony BDPS1 player at work and pretty much everyone here agrees that it is the best looking upconverting DVD player in the store, including a DVD5910CI. Bluray is the better format. More storage = more longevity as media size increases.. Case closed.

That's great, but it still wont win.  BluRay doesn't mean anything to the average consumer, but when they hear HD-DVD they already know what it is without any kind of explanation.  And HD-DVD has had some time to mature - there are already second generation players coming out and the prices are dropping.  The library for HD-DVD is larger and the media is typically less expensive.  Plus BluRay players are still prohibitively expensive compared to HD-DVD players.
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